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13:00
@rightfold OK, see you next year.
@MartinJames you overestimate the amount of time it takes to start and abandon a project
@melak47 LOL!
Xeo
Xeo
-- btw, is there a better way to do the following? (assume `Monad m => ... -> m Bool`)
b1 <- stuff1
if b1 then
  ...
else do
  b2 <- stuff2
  if b2 then
    ...
  else
    ...
I guess a helper function would work, with liftM2 in this case
@Xeo I think I have an idea how to fix mine
13:15
0
Q: jsPlumb on rotating elements

Stasikconsider the following fiddle: http://jsfiddle.net/7fgDf/3/ $(".cl").rotate({ bind: { dblclick: function () { $(this).data('angle', $(this).data('angle') + 90); var w = $(this).css('width'); $(this).rotate({ animateTo: $(this).data(...

hi. the OP picked me as best answer but voted down accidentally
what shoudl I do
@thenewseattle Eat some cake.
my correct answer is picked as chosen answer but it's in the minus
Don't sweat it.
can anyone revert this please?
<sigh> every server<>client network code posted on SO that has strlen() anywhere in it is inherently bugged up.
13:17
@thenewseattle Yes, the person that downvoted can revert it.
If they want.
@thenewseattle why are you asking in here, this is not a JS or a Meta room
Just go do something else instead of worrying about something silly.
..besides, we're all assholes in here.
Speak for yourself :\
13:19
I'm pretty sure eating some cake would solve your problem.
Martin: obviously
@R.MartinhoFernandes I ate some cake.
so this is going to go very south for me soon enough
@Cat so is the CI thing going forward?
Travis runs on Ubuntus without ninja in the repos. FFS.
13:25
@R.MartinhoFernandes get raw package :p
hm. why do associative containers use std::less<> by default, while sorting algorithms use operator<? std::sortover a std::vector<Foo*> without a comparator won't work reliably, right?
I don't want to have to set up a CI script that needs to install bullshit like a compiler and boost and and a build tool.
@StackedCrooked emotions are for suckers.
1
Q: On an example of global inline functions in C++

KlaymenConsidering the following setup, I have ran into a quite strange phenomena, which I can not really explain. Using Visual Studio 2005, the following piece of code results in crash. I would like to really know the reason. playground.cpp static int local=-1; #include "common.h" int main(int a...

mystery
13:26
enthalpy of vaporization
why is it entropy and enthalpy
dammit english.
@ArneMertz I thought that the non-predicate version was defined to use std::less.
Ell
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz meh, the "th" on "enthalpy" is quite emphasised I think
@DeadMG Well, I thought so as well. The I saw cppreference saying it uses operator<, looked it up in the standard, and they're right. operator< it is
enthalpy isn't the nicest word in the language, but it's not indistinguishable from entropy or anything like that.
> All the operations in 25.4 have two versions: one that takes a function object of type Compare and one that uses an operator<
13:32
@ArneMertz Almost certainly a defect.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit isn't the code violating 7.1.2/4; "An inline function shall be defined in every translation unit in which it is ODR-used and shall have exactly the same definition in every case"?
oh puppy
hai
@refp yes, it's violating ODR in a very subtle way. The definition looks the same, but isn't because the static is a different variable in different TUs
@LightnessRacesinOrbit since &local isn't taking the adress of exactly the same variable one could say that the definition isn't the same across TUs
@ArneMertz mhm, exactly.
@refp Correct answer, I believe.
13:36
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I'll write it up, or do you know if anyone else is working on it?
Incidentally, latent heat of vaporization is how the ancient Egyptians used to make ice for their cocktails while building the Pyramids. They'd set out pans of water overnight, and between the low humidity and breezes, some of the water would evaporate, sucking enough kilojoules out of the remaining water to cause part of it to freeze even though the ambient temperature was definitely not below freezing. It's the same principle as the swamp coolers some folks used for air conditioning when I lived in Texas. — Bob Murphy Feb 17 '11 at 5:49
wow
@refp yeah someone's already working on it
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I don't care much for answering questions these days anyhow.. good
and I'm guessing "someone" is really @LightnessRacesinOrbit
0
A: On an example of global inline functions in C++

R. Martinho FernandesThis breaks because you are violating the one-definition rule. The one-definition rule says that in a program, across all translation units, there is only one definition of any given function. inline is sort of an exception to this rule, and it more or less means "dear compiler, there will be sev...

13:38
I might have gone overboard on the last paragraph.
0
A: On an example of global inline functions in C++

Lightness Races in OrbitYour code invokes undefined behaviour, in a very subtle way. [C++11: 7.1.2/4]: An inline function shall be defined in every translation unit in which it is ODR-used and shall have exactly the same definition in every case. Although the definition looks the same because it's lexically copy-p...

@R.MartinhoFernandes the compiler trusted you!
oh god
> If you stop being a lying scumbag, the compiler will stop generating bullshit programs.
Imma start pasting that into every answer I make
@R.MartinhoFernandes "promise"
@R.MartinhoFernandes but for real, I would remove that
@BartekBanachewicz that is gonna get people mad, why not throw in a "stop being a lying scumbag you fucking cunt, maybe then the compiler will stop raping your tight ass" while we're at it
13:40
oh good it's you
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Oh gosh.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit if you don't edit in a quote from the standard I'll downvote your answer. be afraid, be very afraid.
@refp I did, from the start.
JBL
JBL
@refp Yeah, the scumbag word is totally over the top.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit no you didn't..
13:41
@refp Er, yes, I did.
Perhaps you're looking at the wrong answer.
@JBL I don't mind, he should've written "scumbag cunt fucking cucumber", that would at least be funny.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit damn it, you and @BartekBanachewicz for some reasons always come across as the same person
@refp Ouch :(
Especially amusing since @BartekBanachewicz did not post an answer.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit erhm.. I meant @R.MartinhoFernandes
13:42
@LightnessRacesinOrbit thanks, asshole.
or well really, the three of you are basically the same person
JBL
JBL
That was a very snarky UB, this question's code...
PHP PHP PHP PHP PHP!!!!!
@refp I don't play GSQ.
Sucks sucks sucks sucks sucks!!!!!
13:43
@refp we totally are. I'm moving in with Tomalak today so we can unite.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit where? RUN FOR YOUR LIFE
And we should invite robot too
@BartekBanachewicz fuck that.. you got friends and shit? all I got is a shitty compiler.
I've compiled a kernel for some freescale crap today
twas fun
JBL
JBL
13:44
kompiled ?
Sounds german.
kompilator
kompis.
with a kompiler, you know?
that thing that kompiles things.
@JBL or Polish
kuk.
kranieknull.
we use k for that sharp c
JBL
JBL
13:45
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah, all those things east of me, I don't bother anymore making a difference.
@DeadMG Sounds like a KDE program.
@R.MartinhoFernandes their browser was called Konqueror
Oh wow, thanks
My first linux had KDE
it was Mandrake IIRC
it was even before ubuntu 6, gosh, so long ago
I used Linux before it was cool Ubuntu existed.
13:50
My first OS was Windows 3.1 :v
@BartekBanachewicz even I've used windows 3.1, even I.
so I wasn't really a linux guy after long after
@BartoszKP the answer is No.
@BartoszKP hi
13:50
@refp so young! I had DOS 5.1
@refp answer to what?
I used DOS.
@BartoszKP that question.
Well I used DOS too
after I've changed my box from 286 to 486
Norton Commander was the thing
also CDROM drivers
I used CP/M and MP/M.
@refp which one?
13:51
@BartoszKP all of them.
@BartoszKP just shut it.
@BartekBanachewicz sooo old! I <3 norton commander!!! : D
@BartoszKP ignore him.
are you guys feeling the love?
@BartoszKP it was cool.
@BartekBanachewicz yea, I see :S
JBL
JBL
13:52
Rather the anti-love.
Haskell community needs more love.
@JBL the lack of love.
@BartekBanachewicz the haskell community needs more semi-colons
@refp semicolons are for weaklings
glorious functional programming master race
13:53
@BartekBanachewicz what's more badass, ; or :?
@refp how is that related to anything?
@BartekBanachewicz it's not, I just thought I'd ask..
JBL
JBL
The details matter.
@BartekBanachewicz anyhow, you haskell people seem to like ++ and ->, that's not very badass
@refp you've already said, that the answer to all questions is "No" ;0
13:54
@refp do { what are you talking about; i do not get it }
especially not ++
@BartoszKP all of your questions
@refp No
JBL
JBL
@BartoszKP Hint: Look at the current top starred message.
@refp well, except they mean completely different things that you're used to
@JBL accurate ;0
13:56
@BartekBanachewicz that's exactly when it's not badass
sigh
I'll just finish my moveM
@JBL unless what's being disputed is anti-matter
I find it slightly hilarious that some people here talk about tic-tac-toe implementation and it's not bikeshedding
Ell
Ell
I forgot what bikeshedding is
taking a bike and putting it in a shed
13:59
It's when snakes shed their bikes to grow bigger bikes.
Wait, that's something else.
@Ell endless debates on a simple thing everyone could do, so he everyone thinks they can have some input
Ell
Ell
xD
lol I'm writing virtual std::string to_json() const = 0; I'm going to hell
It's when you accidentally touch your dog's penis, and he likes it. Wait, that's something else.
@Ell mhm, no doubt.
Ell
Ell
but. It's a er prototype, so it's allowed to be bad, right? Right? ...guys? :S
14:02
"Started null ago. Estimated remaining time: null" - Hudson :S
@Ell yes, but prototypes are forever
I don't get state function
why bikeshedding, said person doesn't have a car? >_<
I wanna C cat shedding - put your cat in the garbage (and close the door before it bolts out)
@BartoszKP If at first you don't succeed Mr. Kidd...?
JBL
JBL
14:03
@Ell No. The word you're looking for is draft, not prototype.
(Oh my that is so fitting)
@R.MartinhoFernandes : D
Ell
Ell
Hmm I need a right click -> add unimplemented virtual methods button right now
*Main> runState (emptyBoardM >> moveM (Move 1 Black)) emptyBoard
((),[Black,Empty,Empty,Empty,Empty,Empty,Empty,Empty,Empty])
finally
something is working
(yes EmptyBoardM is redundant)
Ell
Ell
lol @ slide 19 mediafire.com/view/?7k0q4guxgm74y2g (says something about gamedevs, I think)
14:13
loding screen
@Ell as if performance was the biggest problem with OGRE
Ell
Ell
ikr
all those managers and singletons :S
mutex::try_lock is not very RAII
@Ell so this slide isn't that bad if you don't look at it out of context
JBL
JBL
Dat Ogre::Root.
14:15
he actually shows profiler data just later
Ell
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz well, then it's not premature optimisation is it?
If there is data supporting it, it isn't premature imho
premature means doing it without thinking about it - saying "this will probably be a performance problem, let's optimise now and reduce readability and cleanliness of code to save time in the future"
@Ell what he said was "you think these optimizations might be premature but it's not"
well could've picked a different form perhaps.
still, Ogre is bad because it's badly designed and I don't give a fuck about its speed
Ell
Ell
either way. I want to know if ogre 2.0 will be rid of singletons etc.
Minicraft is fast and that's all I need.
Ell
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz I agree
14:20
Why does a deque have operator[], but a queue does not?
A queue provides minimal functionality, in order to be as generic as possible.
You can use a queue with a std::list if you so want.
@Pawnguy7 deque is implemented with vector, queue can have arbitrary underlying collection
@Pawnguy7 because deque is a container and queue is an adapter
an adapter which limits itself to FIFO operations
@Ell That's a bit of an oversimplification. Premature would be doing it without having good cause to believe that it will be necessary.
There's premature optimisation, and there's designing for slow. As usual, you should shoot for the middle.
14:26
all my code is designed for slow
I don't like when my objects move too fast so I do a lot of n^2 operations
5
"What are eigenvectors? Nobody knows, and nobody cares (just kidding!)." I'm so funny! ;0
interesting concept
Question.
Bin.
14:30
I am using.. powershell I believe, for git.
Anyway, it makes use of ssh-agent.
I use Git Bash
Problems is, it never seems to close it.
I use TortoiseHg
I sometimes use tortoise when I FUBAR something really bad
I also use VS builtin integration sometimes, it has a very nice diff
good thing in git is that you can use all 3 and it still works alright
TortoiseGit on Vista really sucks
Ell
Ell
14:31
dern I need a dvi cable
s/TortoiseGit on //
eh puppy is faster
: D
yeah, but really, do all applications designed by linux-guys need hundrets of small tool programs as a dependency? ;0
Correction/specification, this. I think.
Anyway, the agent hogs 50 percent CPU, and I don't like getting rid of it manually after.
@CatPlusPlus I think I'll try Fay before Elm. Fay is a proper subset, and (compared to lua.vm.js) actually has working FFI in both directions.
14:33
on first push, I had like 10 windows asking to elevate privilidges for different tr.exe, sed.exe, shit.exe, and so on
hmm.
maybe I should scrap recursive type inference.
type inference or GTFO
it interacts painfully with just about everything.
Maybe just about everything is the problem.
JBL
JBL
0
Q: disable the randomness in malloc

user2996526I'm running this following simple C program: #include <stdio.h> #include <stdlib.h> int main(int argc, char** argv){ void *p = malloc(4); fprintf (stderr, "p==%p\n", p); return 0; } Different runs give different results: p==0x101c010 then: p==0x1ad9010 then: p==0xe77010 and so. As ...

Lol
14:35
:DDDDD!
@R.MartinhoFernandes In terms of my implementation, not the idea.
JBL
JBL
> As I remember, in the past malloc was fully deterministic. So probably from some version, some randomness was added to malloc
They put UB in malloc for the fun.
for security :v
@BartoszKP That's a lot of mouths.
14:40
@EtiennedeMartel yes, I can laugh really loud
JBL
JBL
Bonjour Étienne.
2
A: disable the randomness in malloc

Eric PostpischilIf the variation is caused by address space layout randomization, then, according to this page, you can disable it with: echo 0 | sudo tee /proc/sys/kernel/randomize_va_space This should be done only temporarily for debugging purposes.

that's very interesting
could be used to hack into some stuff, no?
JBL
JBL
That seems very dangerous too.
Oh wait.
With deterministic adresses, it's easier to debug. Of course, I'm talking about the virtual adress as the process see, and not the physical address. If I'll look at it using a dibugger, will it become deterministic ? — user2996526 2 mins ago
No.
JBL
JBL
14:43
"If I look at it". Dude, programs don't behave based on who's looking at them.
@JBL That depends on whether you use Schrodinger's compiler!
maybe a quantum computer?
Seriously though, the presence of a debugger can affect the behavior of the debuggee. This was especially problematic back when everything ran in a single address space (e.g., MS-DOS) but you still see it every once in a while.
yes, I've been struggling with that myself for the last couple days.
@JerryCoffin yeah, in general - threads also will behave differently to give another example
14:48
Javascript just went full retard, you can now compiler JS to JS
Ell
Ell
this code I'm writing is crap :/ I might have to go dynamic with a std::map<std::string, boost::variant<string, uint8_t, uint16_t, uint32_t, Rectangle, RGB, ARGB, Matrix...>> :/
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, I'm settin' it all up
anyway that's what poor fuckers using C fight with
@thecoshman old news (and it's a joke anyway).
@Ell Why?
14:51
@JerryCoffin a) shut up b) really? but look at the reviews, so honest and sincere
Ell
Ell
@DeadMG I don't know >.< I keep changing my mind about what I should do
I was thinking it would be easier to debug
and also export to json or whatever
@thecoshman Hmmm....good point about the reviews. The one from Croucklas Dougford is particularly deep and meaningful. I guess I was wrong. Will you please accept my most sincere apologies?
boost::variants are difficult to debug, at least in VS.
it's hard to see their real contents.
@thecoshman it's a joke.
@JerryCoffin :D
Ell
Ell
And even after removing a large amount of tags, I still have 54 or so which is still too big for a variant atm
14:54
@BartekBanachewicz o_0 did I really need to say
@thecoshman yes
@BartekBanachewicz YOU'RE A JOKE
ahem.
@BartekBanachewicz you're a fucking idiot
@Ell is that the swf tag thing i vaguely remeber?
that escalated quickly
2
14:55
lol
Ell
Ell
@ArneMertz Yeah
You suggested an std::map iirc?
@Ell yeah, some attributeName->value map
urgh C++ compilation taking forever
@thecoshman Now you wait just a minute! You will not take my title away from me and just give it to somebody else without permission!
Imma grab a soda
Ell
Ell
14:56
@ArneMertz I just feel like I'm throwing away static typing for no benefit in return
besides me having to write much less code
but this doesn't help the user of the library
@DeadMG No one bothers to make visualisers.
this I can tell.
it would help if they were in some in-source DSL instead of that external visualizer thing.
In GDB you can write them in Python.
But no one does.
@Ell well, a variant isn't really static either, is it?
well
14:59
@DeadMG It would be even better if the debugger made sense of the class/struct definition on its own. (If you're gonna dream, dream big!)
I think people would write visualizers more often if they were integrated into the source code.

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