« first day (1114 days earlier)      last day (4060 days later) » 

20:00
@rightfold :( now you say that
user1804599
Hence the = 'r's.
God damn it
Why doesn't Visual Studio merge identical errors in the Error list?
@rightfold lol, all right, I see. Didn't read the whole code
Xeo
Xeo
AndreyT nailed it
user1804599
What a slowpoke. Jesus nailed it already two thousand years ago.
What's wrong with him?
@LightnessRacesinOrbit you just now noticed?
Except the picture lol
user1804599
This question is already 22 minutes old. :S
user1804599
Time flies.
user1804599
20:05
@Shog9 Do you get a notification when we link to certain people? :P
@rightfold of course not. That would imply I had access to some sort of monitoring system that matched patterns against all input. Which is just paranoid and crazy.
Xeo
Xeo
And totally wrong
IOW, you do. :)
user1804599
@Shog9 Was just wondering; you’re not present here very often and you came in here just after Tomalak posted that link.
heh; I just happened to notice it on my way past
afraid it was one of our more persistent trolls or something
(still interested to see how they do against the new spam-handling system)
20:11
what's this? new spam handling system?
@Shog9 You sound a bit... well... looking forward to the trolls. :D:D:D
@thecoshman (this message was removed because it explained the new spam handling system, this is forbidden as not to allow trolls and spammers to find workarounds for it)
@Mysticial Me? Never!
@rightfold I had quit that fruitless discussion. I've never said that the empty string was better. I just thought that blindly suggesting exceptions for that was ... fishy.
The @Cat had the useful precision that exceptions are conceptually the right choice (and I conceptually agree). However, we were specifically discussing C++ API design and I don't think exceptions should be used for this - a normal user action - like that.
user1804599
@sehe Exceptions are meh; no compiler verification whatsoever.
20:13
I haven't seen Sumer in a while though...
@Shog9 The irony :) There's probably a largish green light that starts flashing in such events :)
user1804599
The user chose “no file” so you should return boost::none.
@rightfold That's what I argued: it's hiding the exceptional cases even further than just the (broken) empty string
hi sehe :]
@rightfold Agreed
@namezero How are you doing :)
20:14
@thecoshman for years, the "spam" flag didn't actually do anything special beyond what could be accomplished via deletion. Ditto for using the "spam" rejection for suggested edits. Now they feed into a system that, with sufficient input, makes life harder for the authors in the near future. Just rolled out, still being tested, already blocking lots of crap.
So far so good haha. & you?
user1804599
I like C-like syntaxes :}
2
@namezero Neill Butterworth was renowned, not just for pedantic-detailed correct answers, but also for rage-quitting at least 2 times
user1804599
Not to mention C++-like ones :>
@Shog9 oh right, so not anything to help with chat. meh :P
20:15
lol
@rightfold I do too. In the sense that I like the "upfront, cards on the table" approach. No hidden state in singletons, strategies, exceptions, whatnot
user1804599
I love the syntax of Go.
user1804599
It’s beautiful.
@thecoshman yeah, chat continues to be a vast wasteland ;-)
FYI:
@DeadMG It is clearly an option since the user can cancel the dialog (without terminating the program)
20:17
85
A: What legal options exist to Stack Exchange to prosecute aggressive users/trolls?

Tim PostUpdate (10/30/13) This has been implemented, and is now live in testing (and, actively mitigating the very impetus for its design). The person responsible for this is 'that guy' in don't be that guy. He's the guy that lost a chess game years ago and returns to the park every day to throw the ...

user1804599
Of course, when something goes wrong while opening the dialog or closing it or whatever, like ENOMEM, throw an exception.
@sehe afim.info/upload/hack.txt You'll punch me :]
user1804599
Reminds me of an answer I gave a few days ago which was to a similar question.
@CatPlusPlus I like this reasoning. Somewhat. However, in that case, canceling shouldn't be a "Use Case" thing with UI representation - let the user kill the program or some other generic feature (OS supplied window close, like Alt-F4 or sumtin)
5 hours ago, by sehe
@BartekBanachewicz If there's a cancel button, then it would not be "exceptional" if users clicked it
@namezero I should probably go and have a look why I should be punching someone. However, not really in the mood. Mmm.
user1804599
Do it the Node.js approach.
user1804599
20:21
openFileDialog(function(error, file) {
    if (error) {
        console.log(error);
        return;
    }
    // use file :D
});
@namezero I think that's reasonable. Except you missed the obvious boost::static_visitor approach to do it without any typeid() and variant<>::type() calls
@sehe haha Well I'll sump up :] It was way too slow with all the BT for even small expressions, so I reverted and now repair the expression tree by removing those nodes... Works like a charm for now, but it dirty for obvious reasons :]
If you have the full code, I could whip it up
Yes, I just implemented that, will clean up with visitors later.
Thanks, but I think I've pestered you enough with that :]
@namezero Yeah, it is my usual approach: if somehow it is hard to arrive at an optimal/desired AST in the first parsing pass I'll just add a transformation pass. Makes me feel like a real compiler developer (what with simplification/optimization passes :))
Nevermind that the tree could have been less pessimized in the first place. cost(Developer time) > cost(runtime) in 90% cases
20:24
Anyone know any decent places for me to pickup on c++?
Red light district? Seriously:
3570
Q: The Definitive C++ Book Guide and List

grepsedawkThis question attempts to collect the few pearls among the dozens of bad C++ books that are released every year. Unlike many other programming languages, which are often picked up on the go from tutorials found on the Internet, few are able to quickly pick up C++ without studying a good C++ book...

@rightfold ¬_¬ there are too many many people to whom this would be revolutionary
user1804599
@Tdorno This room, for sure.
user1804599
I learned a shitload about C++ in here.
@Tdorno Only 3570 upvotes, so understandably you missed it
user1804599
20:25
Other places are and tinyurl.com/so-cxxbooks.
@rightfold By being quiet and observing, not by asking trivialities at every turn /cc @Tdorno
user1804599
That too.
@rightfold Amazing! Also 3570 votes :)
Thanks all, I'll check it out.
Cheers
user1804599
20:26
You know what’s fascinating? We all share one common thing: anuses. We all have anuses.
@nightcracker I laughed too hard at that.
user1804599
@sehe 3690 stars :)
@rightfold We love using them, too. Well, most of us
@sehe Yup, at the root expression I used the semantic action:
gr_expression = gr_assignment
[_val = boost::phoenix::bind(expression_grammar::removeemtpyexpressionnodes, _1)];
That way it stays "within the grammar"
What are you working on?
user1804599
@sehe I want to see you in real life.
user1804599
20:27
@BartekBanachewicz y u no Amsterdam.
removeemtpyexpressionnodes, srsly?
@nightcracker As you are probably aware people have actually implement jQuery plugins to this (and other stuff like jquery-concat)
user1804599
@Abyx removeuppercaselettersandunderscores, srsly.
Um, I have a dumb question about git submodules.
user1804599
Git submodules suck.
20:28
They do.
user1804599
If you can do everything wrong about submodules, you must be Git.
@namezero I just started at a new job last friday. Writing portable implementation of backup agent software. Multi-platform, extensions, dedup, bandwidth optimization, encryption, the whole lot. Nice work, if it doesn't somehow defy my anticipation
git sucks.
@Abyx It's a "test hack"...
@rightfold That's a creepy response to that message
user1804599
20:29
@sehe sounds fun.
user1804599
@sehe LOL
user1804599
I like C++.
@Rapptz Ask the Robot. He wants moar rep
user1804599
I am going to find C++ job.
user1804599
Problem is that I’m afraid I’ll have to work in terrible codebases.
20:30
@sehe Ohh yes that sounds very sexy!!
@Rapptz You just asked to ask. And then... loud nothing!
It was so dumb I went to try to google it
esp. the dedup & bandwidth optimization
@namezero Yup. Made me switch employers after 15 years with a large general contracting firm. It really jiggered the right buttons
Why is it the backend stuff is always more exciting?
20:32
@Rapptz :/ Bad move. This is git, and specifically an arcane corner. I use git-submodules, but only "privately" as "secret" (local) sauce to track a set of repositories. Never will I attempt to use submodules in a central (shared) repo (never again that is)
user1804599
Because UIs are horrible.
user1804599
API is best UI.
Honestly I regret making a submodule
these things feel awful
@namezero Less of accidental complexity, less vendor lockin. Less cosmetic arbitrariness
@sehe True that. I'd really like to get to know Qt though. MFC is ok, but obviously nonportable
user1804599
20:33
@Rapptz Even worse are nested repositories. :)
@Rapptz If you know what level they do provide something, you can use them. But never try to use them for something that you actually need in your working trees. It suycks rather violently for that, and migrating to repo subtrees or back is a royal pain, if not impossible (without rewriting all history for the host repo, of course)
@namezero Actually, I'm just beginning to realize I should probably get over my fear of UI (and specifically Qt). Now that Qt is succesful on most platforms.
user1804599
Removing submodules is retardedly difficult.
@namezero Next Friady I'll be going to Meeting C++ 2013 (Dusseldorf) and I 'm considering attending some of the UI talks
I didn't know Sophos used boost!
user1804599
And if you forget one of the three/four steps, you’re basically screwed and everything will go wrong.
20:35
@sehe yeah, the "accidental complexity" hits the point
@sehe By next you mean the 8th or the 15th?
@namezero And I wouldn't call MFC "ok" -> I've used that for a net 8 years professionally. And as recent as 2009-2010
user1804599
@namezero Everybody uses Boost.
4
@namezero 8/9 nov. There might be a ticket (or <5) left
Meh :[ A week before I go back to HQ :(
20:36
@namezero Is your HQ nearby then?
Yeah like 20 km from Dusseldorf
@namezero Woah. That's amazingly coincidental. Too bad in many ways then.
@rightfold Only the cool guys do.
I know right??
I go there once every 5 weeks or so
user1804599
user image
11
20:37
I wish I'd know i've changed things around
user1804599
Google is funny.
I'm still secretly expecting to run into some stackers/loungers there (at least @kbok is coming, and @florisvelleman too, IIRC)
@rightfold google translate win
user1804599
> slechte alloc
user1804599
LOLOLOL
TIL, Intel integrated graphics can run Windows Aero. That's a surprise.
20:38
@rightfold This got fixed a while back.
@Jefffrey how did exams go?
@sehe About MFC I mean "ok" as in there is worse. I know I'll catch some heat, but the whole "Prism" framework doesn't seem much better.
user1804599
@Rapptz :OOO
It's now git submodule deinit my_submodule.
@rightfold woah...
user1804599
20:39
@sehe What talks will there be? I’m not coming (I’m quite busy that day) but I’m wondering. Will videos be released online?
@namezero I've been subscribing to news/twitter feeds/etc. or I wouldn't have known. This will be my first ever tech conference in my career. And it has been my own planning (actually, I just organized going there privately, while I still was with my previous employer. So it's great that I had it privately arranged, or I would probably have ended up not going again)
@namezero There is worse. Indeed. But hardly anything more intrusive. Qt has started being less intrusive (in the sense of being more generic) in recent versions. And most importantly, it has achieved real-life portability with "native" look-and-feel, at least credibly
user1804599
@sehe The first eight talks are already most interesting. :(
Gosh they got some really interesting topics there
@rightfold Are you mocking me?
user1804599
Those eight and “Modern C++ Network Programming.”
user1804599
20:41
@sehe No? :v
@sehe Yes, I have two GUI guys who've been doctoring on an interface for the better part of a year in Prism and hate it. Esp. since most our libs are C++ and need wrappers, so they want to switch to Qt.
@namezero Yup. The right people too. Actually, the keynote speaker sold it to me. I really want to see Eric in his natural habitat :/ The rest kinda matches it all up.
Disclaimer: I don't really like tech conferences much, I tend to learn best from doing
That stupid interface could have been finished in MFC a long time ago already.
@rightfold ^^
user1804599
I’m going to work on that reader/writer library I was working on a few months ago.
20:43
@namezero Sadly Prism stopped being a google-friendly library name some time ago ... :(
@rightfold Woot. Didn't you delete this gh repo?
user1804599
@sehe I did.
user1804599
I’m going to add it to my toy library.
@rightfold But you kept a backup. Devious li'l smurf
user1804599
I didn’t. :v
Well, it got started with one of those MS-only guys who no longer work for us and would've set up windows-based routers, etc.
user1804599
20:45
I’ve changed the design quite a bit so it wouldn’t be compatible anyway.
^Hel{2}o{5} !
@Pawnguy7 I have the first on the 5th
user1804599
I also want to add buffered I/O in a way similar to bufio in Go (the entire idea was stolen from Go).
@rightfold Dutch, Japanese and English. It looks the same for me :D
user1804599
And stuff like file_reader and file_writer should be in the same class, not in two different classes (resource management).
user1804599
20:48
Said classes can then be reflected on using <type_traits>-like machinery.
I will refrain from downvoting. But the canonical answer should include the words unsigned and vector here — sehe 5 secs ago
@rightfold slechte alloc made me laugh
user1804599
@StackedCrooked me too (quoted it above) :)
@StackedCrooked lol
@StackedCrooked lol
20:49
lol didn't see that yet
user1804599
using slechte_alloc = std::bad_alloc;
2
@rightfold It's perfect. :]
"but now my code won't run" - whatever does that mean? Be specific. If you don't, you're basically being lazy or asking us to speculate — sehe 5 secs ago
user1804599
I will also include serialisation of integers into my library.
@namezero Could be better:
#define benuetzt using

benuetzt schlechte_Zuweisungen = std::bad_alloc;
user1804599
20:55
@sehe schlechte_Zuwe :v
@sehe One of the reasons C++ is so powerful. You can do the stupidest and most senseless things :D
@rightfold no! heresy! a network library with endian(3) functions hath never before been seen!
Wasn't is PASCAL where the compiler was localized?
So an english program wouldn't compile on say, a dutch or german compiler?
user1804599
@sehe not available on my machine.
@namezero I think some BASICs and Excel are
user1804599
20:57
Also fuck those function names.
user1804599
I want byte_order_cast<byte_order::little_endian, byte_order::network>(foo).
@rightfold Don't tell me you converted to windows now
> These functions are nonstandard. Similar functions are present on the BSDs, where the required header file is <sys/endian.h> instead of <endian.h>. Unfortunately, NetBSD, FreeBSD, and glibc haven't followed the original OpenBSD naming convention for these functions, whereby the nn component always appears at the end of the function name (thus, for example, in NetBSD, FreeBSD, and glibc, the equivalent of OpenBSDs "betoh32" is "be32toh").
user1804599
@sehe OS X.
user1804599
@sehe I don’t see Darwin.
I though Darwin was BSD based inside? Anyways, glibc 2.9 +
user1804599
20:59
$ ed
a
#include <endian.h>
int main() { }
.
w main.c
35
q
$ clang main.c
main.c:1:10: fatal error: 'endian.h' file not found
#include <endian.h>
         ^
1 error generated.
$ uname
Darwin
Also, I linked to the wrong list :) I thought it was a kind of man -S 7 page, but I meant: linux.die.net/man/3/htonl (which is POSIX.1-2001)
You oughta have known about these
user1804599
@sehe Doesn’t support 64-bit integers nor generic programming.
user1804599
(And yes I already knew about them.)
I usually look for section(7) pages being linked from the "See also"
Those designers should be fired immediately
21:00
@rightfold Don't play the fool next time :)
@namezero POSIX? You must be new here :/ strpbrk
At least EXCEL has localized lookup tables so the sheet will work on a different language version
user1804599
I am not a fool, you fool.
@rightfold Don't play one :0
user1804599
I play my own life.
byte_order_cast
Shit that's awesome
user1804599
21:01
@MohammadAliBaydoun I’ll implement it tomorrow.
It's so idiomatic, so lovely
user1804599
The only thing that is really horrible is that I want byte_order::native but that requires querying the native byte-order at compile-time.
@namezero That's the reason that BASICs might have had this: back in the day, basics (including VB/QBasic/...) would not store program source verbatim, but instead store them as sequences of tokens. This explains how BASIC would apparently "reformat" your source code.
In fact, it never saved your source code in the first place
Not sure if it was BASIC, one of the old guys told me how stupid that was :]
Localizing keywords
brb'
user1804599
I basically need constexpr htonl.
21:04
I presume many "ERP" systems (like that russian thing someone mentioned the other week?) or SAP (I think ABAP oor COOl/Gen might be localizing their identifiers)
user1804599
Maybe __builtin_bswap16?
user1804599
Oh wait nevermind, that makes no sense.
@rightfold dunno. Shouldn't be hard to make it constexpr by just doing array indexing
unless, o course it wasn't already a proper array
user1804599
@sehe Good luck casting an integer to an array in a constexpr. :|
you're too slow
Xeo
Xeo
21:06
I'm playing snooker
user1804599
Wait, I know.
Xeo
Xeo
This game. So amazing.
user1804599
I will use __LITTLE_ENDIAN__ on OS X, and <endian.h> macros on other platforms, and fuck Windows.
Xeo
Xeo
I think @Cat might like it
user1804599
21:07
@sehe fun :)
user1804599
I did that a few hours ago.
@rightfold jealous
user1804599
Oh wait, I can use __BYTE_ORDER__.
user1804599
GCC has it on all platforms.
user1804599
As does clang.
21:11
That's better already
I'm unsure what you'd absolutely need contexpr for here. I mean, if it's for sending over the wire... you can spare a few cycles swapping bytes
Xeo
Xeo
I think I just might have to try The Stanlay Parable.
user1804599
@sehe because it’s an enum value; see Gist.
@rightfold Oh, it's not about swapping, it's about "detecting" OS endianness
user1804599
21:13
Yes. :P
@Xeo The Stanley Parable is one of the best games I've played this year. Play the free demo too.
Woudl you believe, I missed that i.sstatic.net/yMiE6.jpg /cc @rightfold
Xeo
Xeo
@TheForestAndtheTrees oh, quick question then: Is it a horror game in any form or shape?
user1804599
@sehe I was thinking of something like this.
user1804599
@sehe meh playing snooker on a computer. :v
21:16
Nah, not really. it's a narrative-fueled game, like Gone Home or Dear Esther, which explores and satiries the element of choice in video games
Google Employees Confess The Worst Things About Working At Google Not sure how much of this is accurate and how much is just disgruntled (ex-)employees being whiny.
Xeo
Xeo
k, cause I'm really bad with horror / scare games
@rightfold best substitute. and lot cheaper, factoring the costs of babysitting too
I crashes VS 2013
Again, it took me only 10 minutes.
@sehe I also keep chat open at the right side of the screen.
21:19
They should hire me to find bugs.
@StackedCrooked nice
user1804599
But rf::byte_order_cast<rf::byte_order::little_endian, rf::byte_order::little_endian>(42) is so long. :(
user1804599
I need something shorter.
return { substr(start, index), substr(index, string::npos)};
in a std::pair<string, string> returning function.
Why does MS not just use the Clang Frontend dammit?!
@StackedCrooked I had just swapped it, really. Usually I just work on one screen really, but I'm still getting used to the windows setup. Turns out it's near impossible to move metro apps to the secondary monitor (?!)
21:21
Btw, I thought you used Firefox?
@StackedCrooked Me? Never. Opera
I see a Chrome icon in your screenshot.
@StackedCrooked Yup.
2 mins ago, by sehe
@StackedCrooked I had just swapped it, really. Usually I just work on one screen really, but I'm still getting used to the windows setup. Turns out it's near impossible to move metro apps to the secondary monitor (?!)
@sehe how is that related to Chrome vs Opera?
The windows setup is making me change my prefs/defaults
@StackedCrooked the win8 version of Opera is somehow crippled. It's probably a sign of things to come with Opera Webkit style? It lacks the UNIX/9.2 key bindings, which make it very meh for me. I live by those. And there's not even suitable substitutes. So, I think Opera is killing it's unique selling point, for me
21:25
That's a sad story.
I still dislike many things in Chrome
Yeah, my cheese.
Ho moved it!
Then don't friggin' use it.
I've been a Chrome user from the very beginning. The quick startup-speed alone was a convincing selling point.
Firefox has plugins for everything.
@rubenvb Whoa, why so patient?
21:27
@sehe Because I'm jumping into a longwinded discussion about which browser someone wants to use. Patience gets you nowhere.
@rubenvb I think I saw your pic on a university page a few weeks ago.
@sehe sorry, wrong person :)
@rubenvb lol. 2 messages in a chat. "Longwinded discussion". Get a life
@StackedCrooked not entirely impossible. I'm becoming quite famous (not)
The university web site was renewed recently though.
@rubenvb I don't like firefox that much. But I'll probably revisit it too
@sehe what's wrong with it? A browser has bookmarks, shortcuts, tabs, and a close button. And then quirky bugs that make it crash for no valid reason.
21:31
@rubenvb Yup. It felt bloated. The untethered "plugin-for-everything" culture doesn't exactly help there
Chrome/FF/IE10/Opera/...
The only valid reason for crashing is sigkill.
Opera came with all that out of the box. Everything I wanted. And it gained my trust.
FF crashes on "Save image as..." Quite sucky :-P
@sehe What do you like about Opera? It's been a while since I've used it. Just wondering what it has over the other browsers in recent versions.
21:32
So now I use a plugin for that.
Xeo
Xeo
@rubenvb wat
@Xeo yeah for like 5 versions.
Xeo
Xeo
Never had a problem with that
@rubenvb Of course browsers are just browsers. I am the one "just using Chrome" here! Stacked was the one asking about it
user1804599
@StackedCrooked SIGSEGV
21:33
@Code-Guru Keyboard navigation, speed, security
user1804599
Actually, crashing has many valid reasons.
Now it might be a rogue plugin that's causing the crashing though
user1804599
You don’t want to carry on with corrupt state—crashing is a way better idea.
user1804599
Crash as early as possible.
@rubenvb my point exactly :)
21:33
Maybe the Office 2010 crapware
OK no plugins.
Just crashed it 5 times.
Probably some stupid profile breakage ugh.
@rubenvb OS? Windows?
@rubenvb Ahaha, I've been carrying my exact Thunderbird, Firefox and Opera profiles since ~7 years now. On linux and windows (i.e. copying the entire profile directories verbatim, across 32/64 versions on both OS-es).
@sehe yeah.
Never broke for me
I know. Time to reinstall everything. Always solves everything with the smallest effort.
earthling
21:42
@ScottW greetings birthday pig
@rightfold wasn't that syntaces by the way?
user1804599
No.
@ScottW goedeavond
user1804599
I’m pretty sure it says “syntaxes.”
@rightfold syntaxen
user1804599
21:44
C++ is syntoxic.
4
user1804599
I’m ruling the starboard fuckers.
lol a star disappeared
@rightfold yup ^
starfall! ^
starve all
user1804599
21:46
@MichaelPetrotta I adore your blog. I’ve been following it since May.
@sehe i won't!
@StackedCrooked yeah, all includes self
starve(descendant::*) not starve(descendant-or-self::*)
The Latin is too advanced for most. I'm glad you're enjoying it, @rightfold.
user1804599
@MohammadAliBaydoun I implemented it. :v
user1804599
@MichaelPetrotta hehe :P
21:48
> Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit
right
user1804599
fold
user1804599
@sehe That means “We will be sure to post a comment.”
user1804599
Or something like that.
I used this at work, the other day, to break up the Lorem boredom.
@rightfold lol
user1804599
21:53
Loki? Isn’t that Andrei’s library?
user1804599
If I have two and only two overloads of a function, one taking std::uint8_t and another one taking std::uint16_t, which one will be chosen if I pass an int?
user1804599
Where can I find these rules?
2
conversions in the standard
widening/narrowing
and overload resolution rules
Ell
Ell
Evening all

« first day (1114 days earlier)      last day (4060 days later) »