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13:00
Das wären Millionen gewesen
they'd still have been wrong :)
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@melak47 american "billions" are the stupid ones
cue famous yt rant
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hehe
Numberphile
@sehe That SplitStringToArray function.
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13:02
@sehe Why do people even provide complete answers to such people :|
Watch them return local memory or something.
Have you read the "dinosaur library analogy"?
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who?
In that BBC thing.
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no
13:03
It's a nice analogy for buses. Totally wrong for 64- vs 32-bit.
@R.MartinhoFernandes they think 2^64 = 16 billion
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it is, for the wrong kind of "billion"
@A.H. 2^64 = 16 billion x billion.
It's correct for billion = 10^9.
2^64 = 18ish Quintilian
@A.H. 18.4 x10^18.
or 18.4x10^18 or 18.4x10^9x10^9 or 18.4 billion billion.
fuck.
13:10
@A.H. It's "binary billions" = 1024^3.
in other words ∞
well, not really.
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You English guys should really reintroduce "milliarde"
4
or ~18.4 million german billions :D
eh
I prefer the short scale personally.
13:12
@DeadMG tell me that when we get a billion billion bytes of memory
@A.H. I'm telling you that when we don't need unbounded-size pointers.
variable length pointers ?
having infinite memory would have some very unpleasant practical consequences.
Sep 11 '11 at 0:20, by R. Martinho Fernandes
So, the estimated information content of all human knowledge is 12 EB.
For scale.
but great advantages too
13:13
@A.H. Memory managers would need to be infinite :P
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Exa was after Peta, right?
@Xeo Exa
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is what I meant
yeah
@R.MartinhoFernandes can be address with 64 bits with room to spare :P
13:16
Sep 11 '11 at 0:01, by R. Martinho Fernandes
So, we could have about 41 ZHz (zettahertz, yeah, that's a lot: 10^21) of processing power with our current energy consumption.
Man, was I bored that night.
now THAT shit could do 18.4x10^18 bytes per second, at least.
@R.MartinhoFernandes if we gave all our energy to computers robots you mean?
I read power usage raises exponentially as clock speed increases linearly.
so...MOAR COARS
13:20
Sep 10 '11 at 23:59, by R. Martinho Fernandes
I'm deliberately ignoring the energetic cost of manufacturing that many CPUs.
hahaha
@melak47 And more concurrency-friendly code.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Not our problem :P
damn
dealing with a shared_ptr<function<Sig>> is annoying
@StackedCrooked take ln clock
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's needing the braces that really piss me off.
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13:23
@R.MartinhoFernandes Y'know, that kinda sounds xkcd-what-if-esque
@DeadMG shared_function wrapper!
Or, y'know, invoke(p, x...)
Invoke all the things anyway.
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std::ref(p)(x...)
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Wait, that was only for members
@Xeo Would that even work, since p is in fact not callable.
still
I have a really bad feeling about having shared_ptr here.
but oh well.
13:25
@DeadMG Nah, wouldn't unless x was a ptmf.
@DeadMG why not copy the object around instead of using shared_ptr?
I'm certain you have your reasons. Just curious.
@StackedCrooked Sharing closure state, I suppose.
yep.
@DeadMG That's the idiomatic feeling to have when using it :P
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13:27
@R.MartinhoFernandes I always forget that it only applies for member stuff
Time for cake and tea.
@Xeo Yeah, me too.
@StackedCrooked Yeah, I know.
Still, invoke(*p, x...) is the shizzle.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Mutable state isn't evil.
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... wut
13:27
Just put the goddamn invoke on the stdlib
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@R.MartinhoFernandes There's a proposal for that!
there is a proposal for std::invoke, I believe.
@DeadMG Sharing it is! (Why do you feel uneasy about shared_ptr :P)
@DeadMG you could inherit shared_ptr<F> and implement operator().
@DeadMG I saw it in The Asylum, along with inmates saying it can't be implemented.
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13:28
5 mins ago, by Xeo
@DeadMG shared_function wrapper!
@R.MartinhoFernandes Because I'mma be doing stuff like *p = [=](stuff) { return dothings(p, otherstuff); }.
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@R.MartinhoFernandes There's an actual paper
and I'm seeing unpleasant reference cycles in my future.
Which makes about negative twelve sense because the standard already requires INVOKE to be implemented.
It only doesn't require it to be exposed to users.
13:30
I read that.
It's also full of stupid about constexpr.
welp
Because of this fucking stupid insistence on not using magic.
Fuck that.
I implemented a system where an expression may or may not yet exist, and then haven't implemented any systems that deal with expressions that don't exist.
If the stdlib doesn't provide magic, I can continue using wheels::invoke.
first Order Of The Day™: implement statements that can use expressions that Don't Exist™
this is going to go horribly wrong.
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13:33
Everything will be fine as long as you don't suck.
And if it isn't fine, we can just say you suck.
@DeadMG I don't suppose it's as simple as a default argument of [](Args...)->R { return R{};} :p
We'll say so anyway.
Xeo
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@R.MartinhoFernandes Do you deref function-like thinks in there if f(args...) doesn't work?
@melak47 Nope.
@Xeo I've been thinking about it. But for now I stick to the exact INVOKE semantics.
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13:35
actually, it might be a good idea to bring that forth to the standard. optional<F> stuff
Oh, that paper you linked is broken.
ARAGJKHSGhgsr
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hm?
didn't pay attention to the proposed implementation or anything
It doesn't SFINAE the overloads out of the way.
Xeo
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... what?
@Xeo It's the specification that is broken.
@Xeo It should require the overloads to not take part in overload resolution unless the expression is well-formed, blah blah.
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13:37
oh, that
It's as broken as a large portion of the standard currently, but why perpetuate that silliness.
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Isn't result_of supposed to be fixed to do that?
Although that only applies to the first overload
@Xeo Not on the second one.
And result_of is the wrong thing there, is it not?
It does not use INVOKE semantics, but normal calls.
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does it?
Unless they fixed it for C++14
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13:39
Nope, calls INVOKE
I remember having to decide whether to have wheels::ResultOf use INVOKE or the standard specification.
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Xeo
> The member typedef type shall name the type decltype(INVOKE(declval<Fn>(), declval<ArgTypes>()...))
kind of a circular definition of invoke there, eh
Oh, ok, then.
Oh wait, now I get what the issue was.
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SFINAE?
It being defined like that is fucking stupid.
It makes the trait more or less useless.
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13:41
Hm?
You can compute the result type but there's nothing in the standard that allows you to produce it in an expression without replicating INVOKE by hand.
Xeo
Xeo
I don't quite follow
so. Today I learned that the iPhone 5 is WAY faster than the iPhone 4
// say...
template <typename F, typename... A>
typename std::result_of<F(A...)>::type
g(F&& f, A&&... a) {
    //now what?
    std::forward<F>(f)(std::forward<A>(a)...); // broken
}
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ah
std::ref(f)(std::forward<A>(a)...); :D
13:44
Loses rvalue-ness.
Xeo
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who in their right mind overloads operator() on rvalues? :P
@Xeo INVOKE preserves that.
Xeo
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I know
Still, I can see situations where you would do that.
why is everyone shouting invoke ?
13:45
Is the "Mac is for graphic designers" thing ever going to go away?
@A.H. That's how the standard spells it :S
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> Define INVOKE(f, t1, t2, ..., tN) as follows:
@Xeo Some closure with state that can be moved out?
@Pawnguy7 do you use a mac? I detected a hint of mac user
alright.
13:47
@A.H. No, Windows 7. I don't like Apple advertising, because it makes people think Mac is not a PC...
They are like the credit cards of computing it seems.
void operator()(foo a, bar b) && {
    a.qux(std::move(this->state), b);
}
@Xeo
Xeo
Xeo
Would you really overload on that, though?
@Xeo Why not?
Point is, if I do, I don't want it to be wasted.
And I think this is a legitimate scenario.
user1804599
Damn.
That said, "perfect forwarding *this" sounds like an interesting feature.
And I already have a marketing name like "rvalue *this".
Xeo
Xeo
13:50
mh
It's what I called "ref-placeholders" for a while
@R.MartinhoFernandes I already implemented it in Wide. Er, I think, anyway.
maybe that was just lvalue/rvalue qualifiers for member functions
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operator()(...) &&&
I feel universal references should have a been a thing.
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mh
Maybe we can fix that now
and make it a thing
and then backfix everything else
(so not gonna happen)
aren't they a thing yet?
13:52
@MarcClaesen They are, but they aren't.
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universal references are a lie at this point in time
Ask the standard if they are.
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kinda like the cake
scott meyers seems determined to plug the term and it seems to be working
ah true, it's not standardese
urgh
fuck const.
13:54
can't, fuck can change internal state
@MarcClaesen And I do agree with that. But what I meant is having them as their own thing, not a particular special case of rvalue references syntax.
Being their own thing would allow some neat stuff.
Ah cool, point taken.
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fuck
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13:55
also, not an operator
don't ask me what I was going for
(Also, those are compound, that's cheating)
I'm trying to picture how this conversation would have played out in speech.
Xeo
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!
I'm picturing it using expressive dance. Way cooler!
Xeo
Xeo
or ~?
13:59
what compiler do you use for those expressions?

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