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11:41
best couple picture:
user784668
This code should be marked as not safe for eyes. — Fanael 38 secs ago
11:55
hahah
hmmmm coffee :)
Fuck me, its pelting it down
Are you stalking Martin?
12:10
No
He's miles and miles away from where I am.
I want the old checkmark back.
Morning.
Xeo
Xeo
lol!
@Jeffrey Well Stack Exchange paid for half my wardrobe
Xeo
Xeo
12:21
52
Q: Who stole the darkness from the accepted-answer-tick?

XeoAt first I thought my eyes were fooling me, but after taking a second look, I found the SO answer-tick to be brighter than before! old: new: (I find the new color to be too bright and stingy, especially with the white background. The old darker green was nicer for the eyes. Can haz old color ...

@KonradRudolph what?
They send me t-shirts in regular intervals ;)
I want them too :(
okay, so now Jon Skeep ported my named operators over to C# :)
Xeo
Xeo
lol
12:25
Only free meals and drinks are mentioned in that post, although I must say I would love to see you after a year of fast food/coke diet.
Xeo
Xeo
If only we could have functions composed of non-alphanumeric characters.
Hmm, to my chagrin I have learned yesterday that John Carmack is a horrible public speaker :(
@Xeo Funny you asked that question. I did wonder about the color of the checkmark.
Now I am trying to imagine what that avatar might look like ... after putting on 30+ kgs
Xeo
Xeo
@KonradRudolph You mean the Bethesda stream?
12:31
@Xeo Quakecon
Xeo
Xeo
He was rambling on and on :s
Ell
Ell
Is telecommuting working from home?
@Xeo Have you seen this?
Xeo
Xeo
I read the manga, planned to watch it
But I'm 3 weeks behind schedule by now for all the anime I'm watching...
Only seen first ep. It's not bad, but not particularly good either. Just typical.
12:41
@StackedCrooked Name?
is a manga series by Hiroshi Hiroyama (also known as KALMIA), serialized in Kadokawa Shoten's Comp Ace magazine from 2007–2008. It is an alternate universe spin-off of the visual novel Fate/stay night by Type-Moon, with Illyasviel von Einzbern as the protagonist. Various other characters from Fate/stay night and its sequels and spin-offs also appear. A sequel series entitled was serialized from 2009–2012. A second sequel entitled began serialization in 2012. An anime adaptation by Silver Link aired in July 12, 2013 on Tokyo MX. In 2010, a special chapter was serialized in Comp Ac...
Reminds me of Madoka.
Have you seen Fate/Stay night?
Xeo
Xeo
@StackedCrooked It gets pretty nice.
@StackedCrooked Nope
Xeo
Xeo
12:43
If you could read German, I'd link a review I wrote about the first manga season. :P
@Tuntuni It's related to it.
About two weeks back I tried to get 2 of my friends to watch Madoka. They were really bored and kept calling her a bitch lol. We only got to like the 5th episode or something. Now we switched to Mirai Nikki and it seems like they're loving it.
@Tuntuni Madoka is not a good choice probably.
Show them something like Hellsing Ultimate.
@StackedCrooked Yeah, they haven't watched anything like it before. I think it's too deep for them. :p
@StackedCrooked One of them watched that.
(I didn't yet.)
I think I'll continue Rewrite. Still on the second route.
Xeo
Xeo
12:57
Buddy of mine is now on the Moon route
There's a Moon route?
Xeo
Xeo
After all 5 character routes is the Moon route, and after that the Terra route
aaaand thunder
OK, here we go again with the weather. Hardly any wind, gone very dark and all the little, buzzing Cessnas etc. from local airfield are all heading back as if their tails are on fire, (which they might be soon if the trainee/novice/weekend pilots get stuck in a thunderstorm).
Anyone tried installing W8 onto drive D: ? I have to test my stuff on that crap and I could use my old laptop, but the laptop has 4GB C: and 64GB D:
Xeo
Xeo
13:19
> 4GB C:
@Xeo Yeah, I know. Silly hardware design on old Asus thingie. On the plus side, all drives SSD.
RFC
Didn’t downvote but I don’t agree – the initialisation is useless here, don’t do it. You make it sound like defensive coding but in reality it just hides a bug, namely the failure to check whether input succeeded. Only initialise variables with meaningful values, not with bogus placeholders. — Konrad Rudolph 52 secs ago
13:35
Correct answer here
@KonradRudolph totally agree. see second answer.
Oh, I totally overlooked Peter’s answer.
If I'm going to initialize anything like that, I prefer to init with a value that will surely cause an exception if not loaded, -1, or INVALID_HANDLE_VALUE, whatever.
@MartinJames 42
@Jeffrey Ah yes - 'The answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and failure to check the result of API calls'.
5
@MartinJames Where that’s possible it may be a good solution; unfortunately in the context of that question it isn’t. C++’ input handling is simply a bit deficient, such a situation should never be allowed to arise
13:47
@KonradRudolph Oh, I agree, (that's four times this month I've agreed with Loungers: I'm slipping).
yeah man, what the hell?
@KonradRudolph I've sobered up :(
that’s more than once per day!
@KonradRudolph OK~: in the last 29.53059 days.
@MartinJames 'rolling month'
13:49
quick question - is it UB or not: int main() { int x; cout << x; } ?
x will be default initialised to zero, no?
thus not UB?
@thecoshman no.
then UB
why UB?
because x could be anything
13:51
ack, @Mysticial isn't around? :(
@thecoshman so what? it will be anything, but you can still read it, right?
but it is not well defined what will be output
it's not like a compiler will generate a memory breakpoint and program will order a pizza when you read from x
it could do, you are reading from uninitialized memory, AFAIK that is UB
Yes, it's UB (§4.1/1): "If the object to which the glvalue refers is not
an object of type T and is not an object of a type derived from T, or if the object is uninitialized, a program that necessitates this conversion has undefined behavior."
13:54
@JerryCoffin oh. thank you
What would the license be that is the legal version of "do whatever you want"? Or is that a bad idea?
@Pawnguy7 the WTFPL?
@Abyx A few machines had a special bit pattern for uninitialized memory that allowed writing, but if you tried to read their value, it threw a (hardware) exception.
@JerryCoffin oh my... so there could really be a memory breakpoint
13:57
@Pawnguy7 It's a bad idea. What you want is probably something like the MIT or Boost license, which is basically: "Do whatever you want, only you can't sue me if you don't like what happens."
@Abyx Yes.
@JerryCoffin Ah yes, liability. That would be good.
@Pawnguy7 Not for me - you've seen some of my code :)
@MartinJames Erm, the lack of, I meant.
I have seen your code?
@Pawnguy7 Well, struct/union anyway. If you didn't catch it, don't bother looking.
@JerryCoffin wait a second.... people are sueing the people whose code they copy?
14:08
@klyonrad well, the issue is people using code you make available. Not copying per se
@klyonrad I don't know if any actual lawsuits have happened, but it's certainly something people worry about.
People are stupid.
Say you write a library and make it available for free. Someone else uses it in their mission-critical nuclear plant control software, but your library contains a bug, and the plant melts down and a lot of people die. Sure, the guy using your library should've audited the code and played it safe, but he could still try to sue you for distributing faulty code without warning people that it was buggy.
Can't blame library writers for just playing it safe then, and having a little clause in the license saying "don't blame me if your nuclear plant blows up because you used this code" ;)
now ehm....
I'm getting kind of more worried about nuclear plants
@klyonrad you should be. In my experience, the more critical a piece of software is, the higher the likelihood that it's a buggy unmaintainable piece of shit. :p
14:14
what's that <chat> project about?
Building a nuclear power plant.
With low level buggy unmaintainable shit code
@FlorisVelleman It cannot be. I've never worked on any safety-critical jobs.
14:32
The only safety-critical job I had, we, the developers were all treated like potential criminals
@Telkitty猫咪咪 Hmm 'potential criminals'. Is it time for an Oz joke?
like we would run away with the source code at any time
because a competitor stole another competitor's developers and source code
@Telkitty猫咪咪 Yeah - as if copying the source out is preventable.
what some sad people do for money ... even though it is just for pitiful amount
I maybe poor, but I take pride in my own code. :p ... I don't steal other people's code even if it is well written
@Telkitty猫咪咪 I cannot think of any way of preventing an insider getting code out.
14:37
@MartinJames Don't they write such things in the contract?
Like when you break it bad things happen
there was a lawsuit
@FlorisVelleman Oh sure. I meant illegally.
but some lawsuits last for years ... 10s of years
@Telkitty猫咪咪 Yeah - it would be worth while for the lawyers to pay an insider to copy the code to a competitor :)
@MartinJames You're not much of a competitor then, more like a criminal
14:41
@FlorisVelleman Yes, of course it would be a criminal act. Then again, lawyers...
@MartinJames It's actually pretty easy. Do the development on machines with no connection to the outside world, and search people as they enter/leave to ensure they aren't carrying any phones, iPods, USB sticks, etc. Have somebody watching at all times to ensure they aren't doing things like hiding a USB stick in a...body cavity. Expensive and stupid, but not particularly difficult to do.
@JerryCoffin It's quite difficult to monitor the activity of all staff 100% of the time. I could build a suitable data transmitter in a toilet cubicle from bits hanging around in labs. You cannot monitor all available VHF/UHF bandwith in all directions.
@MartinJames You don't try -- you only monitor what they have when they enter/leave the area (which, of course, is all contained inside a Faraday cage, so transmitting won't work). It's painful, but can be effective if you're willing to put enough time, effort and (especially) money into it. IOW, it's pretty much how a fair amount of military work is done, and prohibitive for essentially everybody else.
Well, if you are going to put all the staff in a Faraday cage, I would have to spend more than a couple minutes figuring out how to get the data out. Obviously, there must be no windows, (the glass kind:).
15:01
hey, Anyone know how to find complexity of any program? Is there any online tool which can give me big-o complexity of a java program ?
Don't cheat on your homework.
Swallowing Atmel serial flash chips sounds like a good approach. If you cut off the pins, they would be difficult to spot even if the staff would agree to daily X-rays, (which they would not:). Maybe with mustard or Branston pickle?
@Telkitty猫咪咪 Heh - fearsome kiddies you have in Oz. Please don't teach her to bowl :)
Oz? the fire brigades look pretty British to me :p
15:09
@MartinJames And how exactly are you going to read/write them with the pins cut off?
@JerryCoffin Sure, you would need a special jig, but not difficult to build.
@Rapptz Roflmao
@ThePhD Oh morning.
@Rapptz おはいよございます、ラプツ センセイ。
@ThePhD You trying to get me to open my unicode shit again?
15:16
@ThePhD You mean おはようございます、ラプツ センセイ。?
@MartinJames Just use Firefox. :D
@Rapptz Oh, I had an extra in there. D:
My beer suddenly started to taste like chocolate milk.
@ThePhD Yeah - we all noticed that, for sure.
is C++11 faster than its predecessors
@StackedCrooked Nice.
15:19
@AgainstASicilian ...what
@StackedCrooked Wh.. wh.. WHAT? You drinking Coors?
No, just Jupiler. Must be my imagination..
But I'm not sure.
I've had beer in Belgium. IIRC, it tasted like beer.
It's a good beer.
Oh shit. WICKET - Bell b Harris 60 (Eng 225-5)
15:23
@MartinJames It becomes more difficult when somebody's watching over your shoulder constantly, and starts pointing an rifle at your chest the minute he starts to wonder whether what you're doing falls within the range of what you're supposed to be doing.
@JerryCoffin This is true :)
@AgainstASicilian Speed is not an adjective you can use to describe a language.
@milleniumbug Well, you could define speeds. How about compile/link errors fixed per hour :)
Still not a language property.
15:27
@MartinJames I think error reporting is specific to the implementation.
@milleniumbug Hmm...open to question. Short of intentionally crippling the compiler, it's hard to imagine a way to make moves as slow as copies for at least some types. As such, although speed may not technically be a characteristic of the language, it's closely enough associated that there's almost no meaningful way to separate the two.
baileys! <3
fattie drink though - alcohol + cream, very good for gaining weight
maybe Cat++ can drink some more
> When the original CLR was stable enough for internal use, people from the CLR team began writing test and sample code in the new C# language, mainly to test the CLR itself. Being C++ developers, these people naturally wrote their first C# code in a style that very much resembled C++, with liberal use of the m_ prefix, very little whitespace or comments, short, cryptic variable names, lots of Hungarian notation, etc.
:lol:
@Telkitty猫咪咪 But would he want to? Last I heard, he had good enough taste to mostly drink Vodka.
@CatPlusPlus Where'd this idiocy come from?
@JerryCoffin why do most skinny people like low cab food/drinks?
15:34
They probably forgot to qualify that as "Microsoft C++ programmers"
how would one make an array of strings (in the form of char[some size])?
@Telkitty猫咪咪 Turn it around "why are people who prefer low carb food/drinks skinny?" Becomes almost a tautology: "because they eat/drink the low-carb food that they prefer."
@CatPlusPlus Hey you! I wanted to ask, you removed your vimrc repo from BB because you moved it to Github right? I peek at it from time to time and I needed to know.
@JerryCoffin While new language features may ease the difficulty of creating faster software, it still depends on user to make good use of them. (there are libraries out there that need to be "move enabled")
@AgainstASicilian Unless he were masochistic and foolish, he probably wouldn't. He'd just use std::vector<std::string> and be happy.
15:40
is it faster?
@LucDanton Yeah.
Works for me.
@AgainstASicilian Faster to develop, same speed of execution.
is there a faster way to input a string than using cin? scanf doesn't seem to work
@AgainstASicilian Enable optimisations and std::cin.sync_with_stdio(0);
15:42
@milleniumbug The standard library is "move enabled", and a C++11 compiler automatically creates move constructors/assignment operators for a fair number of types, so simply re-compiling C++03 code with a C++11 compiler can give a substantial speedup.
Could anyone tell me what this means?
@Rapptz No, I meant int. Why not? Because this doesn't rely on the type of ch. — H2CO3 55 secs ago
Hmm..
@Rapptz get() returns int
get returns basic_istream&!
Well not the void parameter one but yeah.
(removed)
15:57
That's not how you delete messages in chat
@BoltClock It is if you believe in yourself.
@BoltClock nope. that's exactly how I delete my messages.
because it preserves history =)
Room owners can still see deleted message history.
I know.
15:59
lol
lol
Your mod trickery won't work on me!
16:14
@Rapptz everyone can, there is some js hack for it
CSS to the rescue, talking about cheap "hacking"
16:25
@Bartek See, told you it wouldn't work without the goat ritual.
I won't work with the goat ritual - I am the high priestess to the Goddess of hacking and good coding
Any attempt to keep me away from programming related places will result you haunted by the demons of invisible bugs and the devil prince of illogic for the next 3 years.
3
prince devil of illogic sounds like a scary chap
@StackedCrooked yep, the cat
16:54
@jalf ???
ack, @jalf isn't around? :(
let the the high priestess to perform some foreseeing ... I see jalf deeply troubled by something ... yes! I can see clearer now! jalf seemed to be troubled by the racing goblin of multithreading!
Ok, now your high priestess needs to do her 8 hours meditation in bed now, peace
is anyone familiar with string search algorithms
@AgainstASicilian Stack Overflow
already tried
17:08
@Mysticial hey, you once said that the really important parts of prime are still written in assembler. How much of a performance boost do think does that grant in comparison to plain C?
@bamboon prime95?
@Mysticial yeap
I believe the entire FFT is written mostly in assembly.
i have a bunch of substrings and i want to count how many times they appear in the big string
er
I'm just guessing here, but wouldn't a program called Prime95 be based on performance decisions for a 20-year-old C compiler?
17:10
@DeadMG Except that the author keeps it well updated.
If I already have indentifiers x and xPos, what should I call an x position? :\
Compilers are pretty impressive optimisers.
@Pawnguy7 x_position?
there's a big difference between the decision to rewrite from assembler to C, and choosing not to author in C the first time around because it's too slow.
he may have decided that, even if C was equal performance now or even faster, that it wasn't worth re-writing
all I'm saying is that it's a complete appeal to authority fallacy, since unless you have a statement by the author which was quite recent stating that he didn't re-write in C because it was too slow, we can only speculate on why it's still in assembler.
I must be an idiot because I can't get result_of to work
17:20
IIRC, the interface for that is ridiculous
simpler to write your own result_of trait
@Telkitty猫咪咪 night
Would anybody like to critique my trees?
they suck.
Would you like to see them before making an assessment?
cpx
cpx
Tress in your flair?
17:28
:P
Xeo
Xeo
Xeo, In your code
60k 14 110 215
Wuhuu
I was going to ask if you were looking for something more specific
but I figured I'd take the obvious joke first
Xeo
Xeo
Flat-out 60k
@Pawnguy7 Assuming your code works, you could post it to CodeReview.SE.
@Xeo gz
17:29
@JerryCoffin Herm? Erm, I mean, trees generated out of blocks, not the data structure.
@Pawnguy7 Oh -- sorry, misunderstood.
Xeo
Xeo
Are they still growing underground?
Nope :D
What can we do using function overloading that we can't using variadic functions?
Xeo
Xeo
They suck!
17:30
They were flying briefly, but I fixed that too.
Xeo
Xeo
@ShuklaSannidhya Have a completely different implementation.
@Pawnguy7 Now they suck even more!
@Xeo coin-grats.
Something isn't quite right, but I cannot put my finger on it.
Xeo
Xeo
Underground & flying trees > normal trees
17:31
@Pawnguy7 wow, I wanna play that game :D
cpx
cpx
I think those trees are from Zelda NES game.
Xeo
Xeo
@Pawnguy7 They seem kinda right-oriented, the tree canopies.
@StackedCrooked just a screensaver
@Xeo err... what?
17:31
@ShuklaSannidhya For one obvious one: pass non-POD parameters.
I am pretty sure I would fail at making a platformer currently.
Xeo
Xeo
@ShuklaSannidhya Same function body, same implementation - overloading gives you multiple function bodies, allowing multiple implementations.
@Xeo as in, more blocks on the right then left?
My C++1y tag in this question: stackoverflow.com/questions/18035059/… keeps being reverted to C++11.
Xeo
Xeo
@Pawnguy7 Ya
17:33
Is it a C++11 question?
Oh. I bet I have an integer division problem.
Xeo
Xeo
@gnzlbg The talk is about C++0x, aka C++11
@gnzlbg Yes.
@JerryCoffin "POD"?
THe discussion is about C++1y
they speak about compiling with std=c++1y
cpx
cpx
17:34
Hmmm.
they speak about relaxed constexpr
and about using for and whiles and switch in constexpr functions
to operate on proto expresion trees at compile time
with the c++1y compiler flag
and they speak about return type deduction for normal functions
which is a c++1y feature
and the point of the question
Xeo
Xeo
Maybe you should've made it clearer in the question then.
@ShuklaSannidhya "Plain old Data". IOW, you can pass an instance of a class with something like a constructor or virtual function to an overloaded function, but not as a variadic parameter (well, you can but you get undefined behavior).
cpx
cpx
@ShuklaSannidhya Plain old data.
I`ve tried
thats why i choose the tag
thats why the title says return type deduction for normal functions
17:41
Okay well, I tried to listen to it about 5 times and I can't make much out of it.
yeah, the quality is just too bad to listen
@Xeo Found it. The radius was centered on the right side.
I was calling this landscape the jungle. Any other suggestions for what to add?
fucking tigers
I am not sure of a good way to do that.
Would a static shape on flat ground be suitable?
@gnzlbg How old is the talk?
By the way, I'm pretty sure that question isn't fit for SO. Feels too speculative IMO.
Feels wrong to guess on another person's intent.
17:49
@Rapptz the talk is one month old or so I guess. There is a discussion there between a couple of people about some problems that return type deduction has and that will prevent it to work. The only one that is clear to me is that functions are not deduced to be noexcept (that one is also mentioned in the spec).
Sadly one cannot here what they said. Maybe someone that was there can answer, or maybe some others know the problems already and can also answer.
Yeah feels too speculative.
I guess that if you know what is wrong, you might be able to follow the discussion even if the audio quality of that section of the video is too bad.
C varargs are ridiculously unsafe, don't use them.
The main issue with auto vs decltype got fixed with the inclusion of decltype(auto) so I don't know what his issue is.
I dont know either.
in the talk he says that proto uses a RETURN macro for "automatic type deduction" in C++11
someone asks if they can be removed with automatic type deduction for normal functions
and the answer is something like, noone will be able to use the feature for that, and the rationale gets lost.... damn cliffhangers
17:52
Pretty sure it's close to unanswerable.
what's this github loungcpp project?
@Rapptz :(
If that is the case I'll ask in the boost mailing list then.
Dammit, my work at Google has poisoned me. I suddenly have the need to use a lambda and a closure to pass a deallocator into an object...
but let me guess: google style guide?
@DeadMG No, C#.
18:01
orite
@bamboon A chat.
@CatPlusPlus care to explain?
@Mysticial So what's the problem?
@bamboon An effort to create XMPP-based chat replacement for this one.
@bamboon cat++ needs more power and features
18:08
@CatPlusPlus ah ok
Xeo
Xeo
@Pawnguy7 Heh
@Mysticial oh hey! Am I correct in assuming that SSE2 integer instructions basically assumes integers (in an __m128i) to be signed? The instructions which say they operate on "signed or unsigned" integers just do so because they'd produce the same result regardless of the sign?
Xeo
Xeo
@EiyrioüvonKauyf *Chat++
@Xeo hehe nah
i'm sure cat++ and deadmg could use some more power ;P
also cat++ makes me laff
so i never miss an opportunity to use that phrase ;D
@stacked I have an object that needs scratch memory, and a LOT of it. So I need to allocate it off my memory pool instead of fresh. So I thought about passing in the buffer and not own it, but then the caller loses track of it. So now I need either handle the deallocation in the object itself, or find a way to keep track of it from the caller.
18:20
@Mysticial i'm going to bs and say throw a shared_ptr around? it's movable
@jalf that's correct. Most integer operations are the same regardless if sign.
Xeo
Xeo
@Mysticial I think @Stacked's question was rather "what's the problem with passing a deleter around?"
@EiyrioüvonKauyf C#?
std::vector<int> lastHeights = {0};
That isn't possible?
@Xeo ? 1) i have no clue what i'm talking about i'm guessing 2) why C#?
@xeo it's messy since I still need to make the deallocator.
18:21
@Mysticial hmmmm, thanks. I thought so
@Pawnguy7 std::vector<int> v(/* num elem*/) will set everything reserved to its default construction (0 for int)
And chatting on a phone sucks, lol. I can't do @ replies.
I know it sucks.
Xeo
Xeo
Go desktop mode
18:22
But works good enough to keep doing it.
Xeo
Xeo
And click first on a message, then you get the hover state
And then you can click the reply arrow
TIL about Scratch Memory. i didn't know there was anything between internal and L1
Xeo
Xeo
Certainly not the memory that @Mysticial was talking about.
@EiyrioüvonKauyf there.... isn't
18:25
confused o-o
whats that then
Oh right, there is on some CPU architectures. Not x86 though
i think i'm interpreting this wrong
> It can be considered similar to the L1 cache in that it is the next closest memory to the ALU after the internal registers
(Not counting the Cyrus thing mentioned on Wikipedia)
@jalf so.... there is?
@EiyrioüvonKauyf On some CPUs, but not the one you've got in your PC
18:26
@Chemistpp moar chem kthx
@jalf kk
@jalf i use amd64 ;P
but yeah
I think it's probably easiest if I pass in a single parameter function pointer to do the deallocation.
So Windows 8.1 ISO is up online for free. The question is, is it a standalone clean installer? Or Would it only work for an upgrade?
18:43
@TheGuyWhoCouldn'tTalkToTheGirl just look it up srsly
You really don't want to upgrade to preview versions.
@EiyrioüvonKauyf I did.
@CatPlusPlus Well, I was just thinking about installing it on a separate partition.
Preview versions are normal full releases, only they expire.
Which is the bad part.

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