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9:19 AM
It took me an hour to figure out why download code didn't work - I had flight mode on ...
 
9:34 AM
@EdgyAlpaca kinda but not really, I suspect adjacency is better categorised as a static sliding window thing. it’s all of the top of my head though, exploring and shaping which categories there are out there is definitively in my todo notes, although it’s not my top priority either
 
@LucDanton Well, I meant that groups are all adjacent to each other
 
About standardizing Howard Hinnant's calendar library:
 
@EdgyAlpaca there’s a property that flatten(consecutely_group(xs)) == xs. now consider the thing what Boost.Range & others call adjacent_difference, and notice that doesn’t hold for it. so I want to avoid that terminology
 
> Want to take roughly this design for the standard library?
> 11 | 4 | 1 | 0 | 0
 
@Morwenn neat
 
9:44 AM
Yup :)
 
@LucDanton Where's that property from?
I could say flatten(adjacent_group(xs)) == xs :p
 
@EdgyAlpaca but you’re not talking about a different way of grouping, are you? you’re naming the same functionality something else
 
Yes
 
What are you talking about guise?
 
Just your regular lukeshed
Luc proposes consecutively_group, I adjacent_group.
 
9:49 AM
> The Website you are attempting to access is blocked in line with **** policy.
 
folks..
i would like to alias builtin-types float and double, but with a class type
 
litb you're drunk
 
say, a "strong typedef", in that the class type retains its identity, but the representation is the same and it's connected to the underlying type
 
struct lol: float {}; of course.
4
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb struct Float { bool sign : 1; int e : 8; int m : 23; };?
2
 
9:51 AM
so: template<int DecimalPointExponent> explicit using informed_double = double;
now, when you calculate with informed_double<250>, you know that you still have some 50 exponent steps left till you get out of range values
you can use it to decide whether a SIMD calculation can be done in float, or whether the precision and range requirements force you to do it in double
 
@Morwenn "If it's from Howard then I suppose it's ok."
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb Double & Float
 
@StackedCrooked Hehe :D
 
@BartekBanachewicz however going for all-class prevents the compiler from auto-vectorizing it
 
7
Q: Difference between "Double" and "double"

Ashwin ShirvaDouble far2 = Double.parseDouble(far1); Double far_cel1=(far2-32)*0.555555555; DecimalFormat df = new DecimalFormat("#.####"); What is the difference between "Double" and "double"? *PLEASE HELP

 
9:54 AM
obviously
you want newtype with a phantom type and I'm not sure if C++ can do those
 
Java has implement all the 'wonderful' ideas
 
therefore, I'm looking for a type that is double, but aliased using a template specialization type
or float
the underlying motivation is to write a template that works for both fixed point type and floating point type
 
@EdgyAlpaca the property is not an imposition on my part, it comes off what that king of grouping happens to be doing. but it doesn’t come off what boost::adaptors::adjacent_filtered (not adjacent_difference, my mistake) does, even with a vacuously true predicate
 
C++20 will remove std::uncaught_exception and the old function binders.
 
the template computes the correct intermediate types. but for float, i currently have to conservatively choose double for almost all intermediate types. if the float type carried its exponent around, i can keep many intermediate calculations with float
 
9:56 AM
And deprecated useless wrappers for C headers such as <cstdbool> and friends.
 
obviously, i could use template<int Exponent> struct Float { typedef float-or-double type; }; and when I'm storiung values, i use ::type, and when I'm storing the representation for the purpose of propagation into intermediaries, i'm typedeffing the Float<>
but it's rather unreadible
 
@BartekBanachewicz you had to write "f" explicitly. i'm only convinced the "show" is done automatically
 
Or modify gcc source code.
 
if you can say "a / b" and since it knows that a and b are really float or double, it can do the division by itself
 
10:01 AM
@LucDanton Ok, I understand your point now.
 
Data-Parallel Vector Types & Operations probably heading for Parallelism TS v2.
 
@Morwenn Wut?
 
@EdgyAlpaca We've got std::uncaught_exceptions instead since C++17.
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb how about that (you can add Num and friends as well of course)
 
@Luc I meant to say that all items in a group are adjacent to each other, but I guess it's also true that they are consecutive.
Of course if you reason with adjacency being a thing with 2-preds then the naming is off indeed
 
10:03 AM
funnily enough I didn't have to provide any type in that print, but ofc could with (D 5 :: D SomeTypeTag)
 
Ven
@EdgyAlpaca what does that entail
 
@EdgyAlpaca of course, one could say that adjacent_filter(pred, xs) is a matter of insufficiently separated concerns, and instead stands for something like filter(uncurry(pred), static_sliding_window<2>(xs)). and that static_sliding_window bit does exhibit the consecutively partitioning behaviour we’re talking about
 
@Ven A Safe and Inclusive (tm) environment for all
 
(modulo a range/tuple discrepancy aka we’re going to need to flat_map)
 
@BartekBanachewicz do you think such "sugar types" could make it into c++?
 
10:06 AM
@JohannesSchaub-litb I am not the right person to ask about C++ progress
 
@Morwenn Oh, yeah, I missed that lack of 's' :p
 
newtype has been in Haskell since very early, though, and it was one of the core language features
A lot of design revolves around the fact that it's a zero-cost static helper
 
however since you still have to write class instances, I think it's still not quite the same i'm looking for
perhaps what i'm looking for is a sub-type relationship
making class types inherit from built-in types, with the requirement that the derived class may not add any data members (it must be a standard layout type)
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb well it's a strong typedef
 
struct DoubleClass : double { };
 
10:10 AM
@JohannesSchaub-litb but since you asked ;)
 
i actually like this inheritance idea
 
you can't make the newtype automatically fulfill all the instances Double does, though
 
oh this is cool. so i could inherit the Transcendental (or what it was called..) and Number instance and all?
 
so if I write a library with a custom class and write a double instance, your type won't fit there unless you explicitely say so. You don't have to write it by hand, you can derive it, but it's opt-in.
@JohannesSchaub-litb yep, but you might need GeneralizedNewtypeDeriving (7.5.4)
 
ah wait.. Morwenn already proposed "struct lol : float {};".. that must be a sign.. that this should be the way to go
 
Ven
10:12 AM
@EdgyAlpaca no pushback?
 
hey, what's going on.
 
Ven
4 non blondes
 
nwp
@JohannesSchaub-litb If it compiled. Which is the lol part.
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb I remember that someone mentioned that once for strong typedefs in a proposal, but not at the main idea, so it was left aside.
 
I think the key observation to make is how similar should the aliases be, i.e. where could they substitute the original type. Subtype relationship means "always functionally" (not in e.g. strict template context).
 
10:14 AM
@nwp if we should only ever hang onto proposed language features that already work, we wouldn’t go anywhere now would we?
 
@Ven only dreams
 
Ven
what's the link tho
for the Great Snowfleks™
 
nwp
@LucDanton But that isn't for a proposed language feature, it's for an implementation that has to work now-ish.
 
it would seem to make a lot of sense. perhaps with meta-classes, "value_type lol : float {};" could automatically introduce conversion functions, constructors etc.. "remove" the float inheritance (to make it well-formed), and tell the compiler by the "$compiler." magic that the class is layout-compatible with float, enabling it to auto-vectorize
 
@Ven I know sites with great snofleks like me, but you need to be an adult.
 
Ven
10:16 AM
@Morwenn in a certain category
 
In every category.
 
so, for a meta-class, you can have any base class type. but after the processing happened, the base classes must be class types
 
nwp
@JohannesSchaub-litb I feel like compilers should not require compiler magic to figure out that struct Float{ float f; }; can be treated like a float when it comes to auto-vectorization.
 
@nwp but i'm not talking about only optimizations. it should be allowed to be passed to values that are "float*" without requiring a conversion
perhaps "$compiler.allow_alias<name$, float>()"
 
Ven
ô.o
 
10:20 AM
so you can make full use of math libraries like intel's
 
splicy 💯👌
 
now i'm just handwaving. you guys know the details and can evaluate whether this makes sense or not
 
@EdgyAlpaca don’t forget to do eet on the blockchain to receive massive monies
 
10:54 AM
We did it guys! Larsen C finally broke off!! Wew!
 
Ven
11:37 AM
@EdgyAlpaca larsen ice thing?
 
hehe I argued with anti-vacinners on fb
 
Ven
we call them "idiots"
 
I did that as well
it's hilarious how they go all "oh very intelligent response you can't disagree without insulting"
 
It would be hilarious if it wasn't serious :/
 
I just love their idea that they're entitled to civilized discourse regardless of how dumb their opinions are
 
nwp
11:39 AM
@BartekBanachewicz Must be a side-effect of all the aluminum they vaccinated you with.
 
Also the ones that tell "but big pharma money" and stuff, while advocating that homeopathy is good without mentioning that "big pharma" is making money on sugar pills.
The best one I saw was probably "we don't need studies to see that homeopathy works!", while not doubting the results of studies about vaccines :/
 
nwp
@Morwenn maybe they assume that "big pharma" is not required to produce sugar pills
 
@Morwenn yeah they're great
> there's no proof that vaccines cause autism
> WHERE'S THE PROOF THEY DON'T
^ the whole movement in a nutshell, just change the autism claims to pharma conspiracy or w/e
 
Too bad half of the population is now weary of vaccines in France now -___-
Even more so with the new mandatory ones.
 
half of the population is morons so
Way more than that, so 50% is a rather conservative statement
 
11:53 AM
Yeah, but that's becoming a problem.
 
remember that half the population's intelligence is below the median
4
 
@ratchetfreak and it's not like the median IQ is particularly high either
 
I know people who just can't be vaccinated, so that's a bit of a problem for them...
 
@Morwenn that's a horrendous problem for them
 
11:54 AM
yup
 
@wilx interesting. I am still struggling at understanding why spin can't be a constant property of a particle
> any measurement of a property of a particle can be seen as acting on that particle
I guess that's why
 
max
@Morwenn ils ne pourraient même pas se faire vacciner contre la connerie :-/
 
:/
 
12:35 PM
hmm, this java code uses interfaces in a rather peculiar way
interface Thing {
   String getName();
}

class ThingImpl implements Thing {
    private String name;
    public void setName(String name) { this.name = name; }

    @Override
    public String getName() { return this.name; }
}
I can kinda see what this is for, but it has some sort of code smell to it, no?
 
@wilx theory vs theorem vs laws of physics
 
@BartekBanachewicz The smell of Java? :)
 
@wilx I guess
the language is pretty bad
I need to start pushing for Kotlin more
 
Ven
@BartekBanachewicz at first I thought it was pimping, lol`
 
1:00 PM
@rightfold Now comes one of the hardest parts of implementing a syntax highlighter: deciding on concrete colors :) Let the bikeshedding begin!
 
Ven
@fredoverflow changethat font
 
ugh
std::bitset has no begin/end?
wtf
@fredoverflow what? Just read those from a file and allow everyone to customize.
 
Let me rephrase: deciding on default colors
 
@fredoverflow Solarized
 
Ven
your colors are just fine
 
1:04 PM
provide a set of defaults for solarized, monokai and something white and most people will be happy
 
@fredoverflow I’d suggest you crib your favourite colourscheme. and if you don’t have one yet, then I suggest you pick one
 
@Ven C is old. I want it to look like the 70s ;)
 
yellow
 
13
Q: Why doesn't std::bitset come with iterators?

Trevor HickeyIt appears that std::bitset does not come with STL iterators. Therefore, I cannot do the following: std::bitset<8> bs; for (auto it: bs) { std::cout << "this can not be done out of the box\n"; } Instead I must: std::bitset<8> bs; for (std::size_t i = 0; i < bs.size(); ++i) { std::...

amazing
just amazing
C++ commitee is such a fucking bunch of monkeys
 
@BartekBanachewicz As if IQ meant anything
 
1:05 PM
@fredoverflow that looks pretty neat, why don't more debuggers give you a graph view of memory?
 
Ven
@fredoverflow no thanks
 
@Shoe it does certainly mean something
 
nwp
> The CDB process terminated.
 
oh right and I can't use std::vector<bool> either
 
nwp
So unhelpful
 
1:06 PM
so the only reasonable way is a numeric for loop
fuck this language
 
@ratchetfreak Because I guess for non-trivial, real world programs, the memory graph would become an un-untangleable mess.
 
Ven
just newtype bool ;-)
 
nwp
@BartekBanachewicz sure you can
 
@Ven Does C++ finally have strong typedefs??
 
no, litb asked about them today
 
Ven
1:08 PM
lol no
 
@fredoverflow that's why you shouldn't show everything at the start, only what the user asks for
 
Ven
but to be fair, with metaclasses, it might become much easier
 
for debugging non-trivial data structures having a mem graph is god-sent
 
@ratchetfreak Doesn't Visual Studio have something like this? At least for the STL containers?
 
nwp
> DebugConnect failed, HRESULT 0x80004002
E_NOINTERFACE No such interface supported
 
1:15 PM
I know you can create custom field expansions so std::list looks more like std::vector but no actual graph
 
@BartekBanachewicz std::bit_iterator is likely to make it into C++20 and be used wherever you need to iterate over bits, including std::bitset.
 
@ratchetfreak Take a look at this video, starting at around 5 minutes:
 
And and maybe std::vector<bool> will be able to iteract with std::bit_iterator too, but I'm not sure.
 
@fredoverflow skimmed through muted; that's a repl with a render function that you need to call each time, It doesn't look really interactive and just for scala
 
Ven
1:32 PM
To be fair: "X is likely to make it into C++20" is the new "In quantum physics, ..."
(WRT what @BartekBanachewicz and @Morwenn were discussing)
 
> Do we want graphics support in a TS? 9 3 0 1 0
 
nwp
Using the right IP address helps when remote debugging.
 
@Morwenn amazing
after all it's only recently when bits were introduced to programming
 
xD
Still, the proposal seems fairly useful and generic. Plus they will likely overload standard algorithms with optimizations.
> Linear algebra not strict - will treat points as vectors
And the wording for designated initialization is being reviewed by CWG.
 
2:39 PM
Welp, I have just used Unicode's “Reversed Hand With Middle Finger Extended”.
5
 
 
hey
can anyone install and zip SC1 for me?
 
Ven
@BartekBanachewicz 1.18?
 
@Ven dunno, the one you can get for free
 
Ven
why do you not just download it?
blocked by $company?
 
2:46 PM
@Ven yep
 
3:31 PM
 
Ven
gorgeous
 
> Herb: I'd poll whether we are concerned as C++ users about fracturing the language?
@fredoverflow Sexy :)
 
@Morwenn What is he concerned would fracture the language?
 
3:58 PM
those | 0 are just wonderful
a.k.a. who needs integers
 
@BartekBanachewicz You gonna get SC Remastered?
 
Ven
I got it already
can't wait
 
preorder?
I just barely started playing SC2...very late to the party there ;-(
 
Ven
yup
 
I haven't taken that step yet. I'm excited to see what Blizz has done with that classic. If I get this job I'm interviewing for today, it will probably take a high place on my "to buy" list with my first check.
 
Ven
4:07 PM
you can play a bit of 1.18 beforehand :)
or just some sc2
 
@JerryCoffin Whether to standardize feature test macros, or to keep the status quo, where you can't reliably use them in libraries.
 
4:22 PM
@Borgleader lol
 
0
Q: C++ PBKDF2 Issue

TVA van HesterenI have the following function: void PBKDF2_HMAC_SHA_512_string(const char* pass, const char* salt, int32_t iterations, uint32_t HashLength, char* out) { unsigned int i; HashLength = HashLength / 2; unsigned char* digest = new unsigned char[HashLength]; PKCS5_PBKDF2_HMAC(pass, str...

I think this user has a clear gap of understanding of how hashes work
 
5:15 PM
@nwp yeah. lol
 
@Code-Apprentice probably not, fuck SC1
we managed to get one game with a coworker
god is this game bad
I have no idea how people still play it nowadays
 
Nothing that can't be put into a general rule? A. You just did. B. It's obviously a historical perspective (much needed counterpoint to "ermagad who'd ever use a list").
And the modern day truth is arrays are usually fast, even more so when traversing from start to end. That's presented with the explanation why that happens on various processors/compilers.
It doesn't get much better than this: a one-stop answer for nuanced facts. If you prefer a big authoritative "Do This" stamp instead, yeah...
 
5:29 PM
hello
 
@Code-Apprentice It's gonna be pretty awful
 
5:47 PM
@fredoverflow :(- . -):
 
6:01 PM
Eh~, looks like I'll be alone tonight.
 
♥♥♥ You're never alone in The Lounge ♥♥♥
 
Well...
 
Ven
Get a beer?
 
Nope, I'm doing a break.
Plus I don't drink alone ^^'
 
Will you continue after the break?
 
6:05 PM
Like the Planxty.
 
How long are you gonna break? For a while?
 
I'll be drinking in Plymouth next monday. That's a short break x)
I often feel like I drink too often. I don't like that :/
 
6:18 PM
do you drink? if so too often
 
Eh, that's how I feel sometimes.
 
Ven
I've only got a single beer these past 2 weeks
I want to drink
 
At least I don't drink soda x)
 
> I imagine the book starts out as screaming but ends with the narrator sleeping
rofl
 
6:26 PM
Post black metal ♥
 
It wasn't an injunction D:
 
6:48 PM
> Do we want to encourage explorations on making lambdas terser? 11 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 1
> Would the group be interested in seeing this proposal (potentially merged?) continue and develop a potentially acceptable syntax? 4 | 13 | 4 | 1 | 1
we may have some kind of terse lambdas in the future /o/
 
Fat arrow lambdas like C# and Scala?
 
Something along these lines.
 
Ven
nice!
 
Including the already approved changes (single Concept definition syntax, semantic Concepts, redeclarations, requires clause grammar), merge the Concepts TS excluding abbreviated function syntax, template introduction syntax, constrained-type-specifiers, into the WP? 31 | 17 | 10 | 9 | 3
 
Ven
7:05 PM
:O
 
I feel bad for Bjarne. He seems really upset :/
 
Ven
who cares
Bjarne is never upset, just a bit more sparkly than usual.
 
Er...
> Bjarne: You've just broken up a working and reasonable design. I don't think it can be fixed in a few minutes.
> Bjarne: Half the room hasn't read the paper, and the other half has forgotten it already. This is ridiculous.
> Bjarne: It will not be unanimous. I will vote strongly against.
He does seem upset.
 
where is bjarne upset? last i saw, he was upset that c++ "improvements" are all mostly syntactic sugar, which for the most part seems correct
 
@Morwenn I find it hard to blame him, to be honest.
 
7:18 PM
> Make stateless lambdas default constructible + assignable? 10 | 9 | 2 | 0 | 0
@JerryCoffin I concur.
 
Ven
@Morwenn what's he upset about anyway?
 
@Ven That his terse syntax got kicked.
 
Ven
terse syntax for..?
 
Ven
terse syntax for asira
ok then
 
7:19 PM
x)
You already know that I randomly share music I like in here :o
Next paper: Down with typename!
 
@Ven Instead of looking at Concepts as a complete design, they're trying to pick individual features to include/exclude on the fly, during a committee meeting. It's the sort of situations that leads to governments (for example) committing to funding a project, and at the same time prohibiting the project from happening.
 
Ven
ah yeah :|
 
On the other hand, people in the committee not liking the terse syntax is not new. IIRC the Ranges TS doesn't use it at all.
Plus they managed to get rid of concept bool and to have only "concepts", not "variable concepts" and "function concepts".
Plus a few other subtleties.
 
never seen that one before :)
 
> It struck me that most of the typenames could be guessed by the compiler. I am proposing that we no longer require a typename when the compiler can derive it.
> P0634r0 as presented? 14 | 8 | 1 | 0 | 0
 
Ven
7:33 PM
sigh
"DONT FORCE THE PROGRAMMER TO BE AS SMART AS THE COMPILER"
 
@fredoverflow Context is probably the going native (2012?) talk with the missing graph which compared random insertions in linked lists and vectors. I don’t remember him saying these exact words, but he was arguing against linked lists there.
 
@Morwenn How would you know when the compiler can derive it?
 
Ven
- someone
 
@Puppy If you read using foo =, you know that a type follows.
 
@Puppy When the user puts "typename" duh.
 
Ven
7:34 PM
But that means it's gonna be implementation-dependent..?
 
When you write static_cast<something>, you know that something will be a typename.
 
@Morwenn True, and probably a few other places too I guess
 
@Puppy Here is the paper if you want the full list.
> Ville: Writing typename consistently doesn't help anyone.
 
Having typename be allowed outside of templates would be nice
where it would do nothing if it's used correctly but fail compilation otherwise
 
@milleniumbug Isn't it already since C++11?
 
7:38 PM
some Boost macros wouldn't need the _TEMPLATE and regular version then, as the _TEMPLATE version would cover both
 
typename std::is_integral<int>::type is already accepted, but it wasn't in C++98.
 
oh, nice
 
GCC doesn't even warn about it though, but Clang does.
> Ville: You can take this to Core in Albuquerque, not before. If I hear that this has been brought to Core before New Mexico I will kill someone.
> Daveed: Can you tell me whom you will kill? I might achieve two goals in one proposal!
Wow, SG6 actually discussing papers :o
 
8:24 PM
Nice.
 
8:40 PM
we should consider making a C++FAQ question on rand and why it might be harmful
 
Hm, I wish I had some bread. Cheese and bread go so well together.
 
@StackedCrooked Exactly what I had tonight.
 
Good stuff :)
 
The text formatting proposal and text_view slowly advance in the committee.
@StackedCrooked Depends on whether you like camembert x)
 
I do.
 
8:46 PM
Extra smelly one.
 
I don't mind that at all.
 
<3
 
Currently munching some "oud brugge".
Goes well with beer too :)
 
Looks tasty.
 
It sure is. Just wish I had some bread too.
But shops are closed now.
 
8:51 PM
I've got plenty of bread in my freezer xD
 
bread... in... freezer?
 
This kind of break (with less fluffy crumb) can still be grilled after having been in the freezer and still be tasty.
Of course it needs to defrost first, but it's still a viable solution when shops are closed.
Let's say that it's a "strategic reserve of bread" :D
 
When are shops with bread closed o_O?
 
national holidays
 
I can't remember the last time I wanted some pastry and couldn't get any.
 
8:56 PM
Also once a week, and everyday past 7pm.
 
my problem with bread is that it's sold in 500g packs
it's too large
 
@ScarletAmaranth Anyday near midnight x)
@milleniumbug Not a problem ith the freezer :D
 
Yeah ok then get it the day before or until 7pm :)?
You people are weird ^^.
 
@ScarletAmaranth I tend not to plan when I'll be hungry.
 

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