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12:01 AM
posted on June 30, 2017 by Scott Meyers

On Wednesday, I got mail from Laura Baldwin, President of O'Reilly, announcing that "as of today, we are discontinuing fulfillment of individual book and video purchases on shop.oreilly.com. Books (both ebook and print) will still be available for sale via other digital and bricks-and-mortar retail channels...[and] of course, we will continue to publish books and videos..." So O'Reilly's not g

 
They have managed to add quite a lot of the metadata. But you can't get the author's name out of it because they have managed to put the itemprop on <a> with href, which means that the value of the href is the value of the author.
<a class="non_blank" href="http://almouggar.com/search.php?id_auteur=49013" itemprop="author" title="Nicolas Jacquet">Nicolas Jacquet </a>
 
 
1 hour later…
1:14 AM
Ok, this is really stupid. I now have two X299 motherboards.
 
You can always give one away.
 
The Mystical Lounge C++ Raffle.
 
@littlepootis lolno, they're $400 each. One's going back to the store.
 
1:40 AM
@Mysticial Eating is overrated.
 
 
2 hours later…
3:35 AM
try not eat for a month
 
4:24 AM
@Borgleader You wouldn't believe me if I told you. Those first 23 bits... wow. — user4581301 12 mins ago
the hell is he on about?
 
I think I know which two cores on my 7900X are the "favored" cores.
 
4:50 AM
that's the cute little 'thief' from last night
 
5:08 AM
why does android studio try to index random directory when I open this sample code I downloaded from git?
 
5:58 AM
Morning
 
Hello
I have a while loop nested in a while loop
 
Great
 
when I cout something in the nested while loop (which is an infinite loop until I break it)
 
I'll stop you right there. Code or burst.
 
alright
 
6:02 AM
If it's too long use pastebin or similar
too long = > 3 lines
 
What's the problem?
Wait, why aren't you using std::string for strings and bool for booleans?
 
it is supposed to output nter only month 1 for January, 2 for February, 3 for March, 4 for April, 5 for May, 6 for June, 7 for July, 8 for August, 9 for September, 10 for October, 11 for November or 12 for December!
I wanted to
but this is a school project
 
char[100] a string of maximum 100 characters
That's why it's stopping before the end
 
OHH
 
6:10 AM
Use std::string and tell your professor he is an idiot
 
:^)
 
Assuming this is a C++ class
 
10 cores is still not enough for compiling. I need that 18 core chip.
 
And not a class on algorithms and data structures
@Mysticial Are you compiling the universe?
 
this is a team project and everyone is required to tell him how the program works
 
6:11 AM
@Jeremy So?
 
since we don't learn bool and string in school so I don't think my teammate and explain it :\
 
bool is a type inhabited by only two values: true and false
That's all there's to know really
 
I know
 
bool x = true; bool y = false;
It's simpler than int
 
Yep
 
6:13 AM
std::string is arguably harder to explain. Especially if you haven't studied dynamic allocation yet (which you shouldn't anyway in a C++ course).
But requiring your students to know how std::string works is dumb (again, unless the course is about data structures and not C++ per se).
 
the course is about introduction to c++
thats it
 
Then it's a terrible course
 
I'm not sure why they chose c++
java, c# or other high level programming languages would be better imo
 
char[N] is a complicated mess than nobody in the real world really uses
 
true
 
6:16 AM
It's far from "introductory material"
@Jeremy C++ can be "high level" as well. You just don't have to see it as C with classes
Which is what your professor is doing
 
how do you define high level languages?
 
Good question
 
6:51 AM
@Jeremy Java is a lower-level language.
@Jeremy Higher level languages support higher levels of abstraction.
 
Java is a middle level language
C is a low level language
C++ is medium rare
 
7:08 AM
Java is a low level language?
Name a high level language in your opinion
 
javascript
and html
 
HTML isn't a programming language.
 
rofl
 
@Jeremy ML, Haskell, SNOBOL, Icon.
 
I have only heard of Haskell :3
 
7:21 AM
@Jeremy SNOBOL: pure awesomeness.
 
smh
Swift is the programming language I wanna try next
 
but seriously, high level language are usually scripting languages such as python, perl ... even PHP to certain extend
 
So I'm playing with my Skylake X build. And it seems like thermal/current throttling is being taken to an entirely new level that is gonna drive HPC programmers mad.
And it explains why I got such shitty performance scaling on the Skylake Xeons.
 
user1804599
7:53 AM
lol defending java
 
lisp is ahigh level language
 
Hello
 
sup
 
How is your day going?
 
boring
i'm waiting until machine learning reduces to a bunch of APIs and packages then i'll use it lol
 
8:08 AM
My summer class ended on Thursday so I am bored too
 
wanna work on projects?
 
yes
what kind of projects?
 
i'm trying to do AI projects while avoiding data science
i'm trying to build JARVIS but... dumber version of it
web apps
 
haha that sounds cool
 
i'm trying to rely on really simple basic stuff instead of doing anything complex
so its mostly html css js and absolutely zero machine learning/data science
 
8:16 AM
I am trying to learn html css js so I could build a web site for my calculus teacher
 
yeah people make fun of html css js, but once you learn it, you can make all sorts of applications which are accessible by anyone at any time through the easiest to access interface
...the internet
happy holidays
 
I never understood why people hate certain languages. I think all of them are great in their own way.
2
 
such as c++ (jokes)
 
@hexicle unfortunately that's a sad joke
 
isn't c++ one of the best
 
it's horrible
this room is a C++ users' support group
 
do you like common lisp?
 
8:37 AM
I don't really like like it
it's a bit too clumsy for me
 
it seems cool because it never gets updated so my code won't deprecate every 12 months but then nobody will understand my code
 
well the last part is certainly not true
lisp code can be rather readable
 
user1804599
Try Haskell, it's great.
 
user1804599
I can prove it by intimidation.
3
 
ok... as long as it's a pure intimidation
 
8:38 AM
Haskell is great
 
i wanted to use lisp because i feel the only purpose of the updates to programming languages in the past 5 years is to add lisp functionality
 
user1804599
A monad in X is just a monoid in the category of endofunctors of X, with product × replaced by composition of endofunctors and unit set by the identity endofunctor.
 
user1804599
See? It's great!
 
and because my code keeps deprecating lol
 
user1804599
Oh cool C++17 has [[fallthrough]];.
 
8:40 AM
exactly
maybe not i dunno
 
@hexicle most languages used nowadays is years behind the research
but that's always gonna be the case
 
which languages aren't years behind research
lisp? haskell?
 
> I think it’s time I accepted that “feminism” no longer means “the aim for equal rights for women” but is understood to refer to the current feminist movement which encompasses so much more and very little that I want to be associated with.
@hexicle Idris
Apparently there's a growing number of people who don't think "feminism" is what they identify with.
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow They can even close over final locals.
 
8:46 AM
Especially given the bait-and-switch tactics of "are you for equality - yes - then you're a feminists; all feminists know that staring is rape - but..."
 
@rightfold So Java had closures all along! ;)
 
user1804599
In C++ they can't, which is super annoying.
 
user1804599
It'd be nice if local classes could have closure lists.
 
C++ has local classes??
 
user1804599
void f(int x, int y) {
  [=, &x] class foo { ... };
  ...
}
 
user1804599
8:48 AM
@fredoverflow Yes, but they cannot have template member functions, unless they are lambda types.
 
yeah its true
 
user1804599
And no static members either.
 
user1804599
A local class cannot have static members
Member functions of a local class have no linkage
Member functions of a local class have to be defined entirely inside the class body
Local classes other than closure types (since C++14) cannot have member templates
Local classes cannot have friend templates
Local classes cannot define friend functions inside the class definition
A local class inside a function (including member function) can access the same names that the enclosing function can access.
local classes could not be used as template arguments (until C++11)
 
common lisp last update was 10 years ago... that way i dont have to learn Javascript 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 ...
 
8:49 AM
@rightfold When were local classes introduced into C++?
 
user1804599
C++03 probably
 
@rightfold Is than an octal 3, by the way? ;)
Octal literals are so fucking retarded...
 
user1804599
0 is an octal literal.
 
user1804599
Imagine C++ had no octal literals; you couldn't write the null pointer before C++11!
 
Are there languages with arbitrary base number literals, like cafebabe_16 or something?
 
user1804599
8:52 AM
Yes, Erlang: 16#cafebabe.
 
nice
 
user1804599
There is a language that has 0d prefixes for decimal literals.
 
user1804599
Perl 6.
 
@fredoverflow yes
@fredoverflow 98?
 
I read and followed the embedded one for arm. Very entertaining and educational. Took only a day to get my first linux from scratch running
 
they're right....it is the title of a fake job.
(jokes)
 
@fredoverflow It's a pretty specialist job title in a specialist field, I'm not surprised most random people don't know what it is
 
it’s also easy to mistake for a 'scum master'
 
I don't like the title 'scrum master' - it reminds me of a mix of 'scum master', ' scam master' & 'scrub master'
 
user1804599
9:38 AM
Scrum is a hoax
 
scrum is too rigid
 
Ell
9:53 AM
What :V
Scrum is the opposite of rigid
You can add a new user story at any time
 
@Ell that's not what I meant
 
@BartekBanachewicz Do you use any particular methodologies when working with other people?
 
@fredoverflow nothing that can be directly named
it's certainly not scrum
 
10:11 AM
Bartek B: "certainly not scrum" master
 
How do you people like kanban?
 
never used it, no idea
 
user1804599
Kanban is also a hoax
 
user1804599
I like me some software development
 
user1804599
Tell me what to make and I'll make it
 
user1804599
10:26 AM
If it's not what the customer wants then that's your problem
 
user1804599
Problem solved!
 
@rightfold is a hoax
 
user1804599
I'm certainly real
 
user1804599
I think, therefore I am
 
2deep4me
 
10:29 AM
 
@Horttanainen Balls deep?
@Telkitty That's pussy deep!
 
indeed!
too deep for the kitty
 
10:41 AM
Looks like C++20 will get latches, barriers and atomic smart pointers.
 
I don't understand why Windows developers prefer users to install VC++ redistributables, if all it does is reduce their App size.
Hi everyone.
@Telkitty must be cold.
Hi @Telkitty
 
10:58 AM
hey :)
 
am I making a bad decision
 
You're becoming a bad boy.
 
I felt like it's high time
I haven't updated my OS since I installed it around 4 years ago on this machine brand new
 
@wilx ye
 
and given how much software has creeped through over the years, it could use a fresh start
 
11:03 AM
@BartekBanachewicz your own kernel?
 
@benardier no?
 
@BartekBanachewicz cool.
 
too bad I don't have any spare 3.0 pendrives
getting everything back will take a few days though so
 
just wait and see.
 
maybe I should make a list of stuff to install or something
I certainly need MSYS, Stack, basic tools like browser, universal scrolling, text editor, spotify
actually I guess not much more
well sketchup
 
11:14 AM
@BartekBanachewicz nah
 
11:31 AM
 
Hm, not sure how to interpret this spec:
The initial value of ssthresh SHOULD be set arbitrarily high
arbitrarily means kinda random, right?
So it's basically saying to set it to something whatever.
And it's a SHOULD.
lol
 
nwp
11:49 AM
@StackedCrooked Maybe it's like the initial value for finding the minimum. You can set it to any value that is >= the actual minimum. And if you don't you get your initial value.
 
Actually it means you should set it to the maximum configurable value.
In this specific case I mean.
 
12:09 PM
@StackedCrooked Definitely higher than everything else, ever.
 
Yep. That's what it means.
It's the upper bound used for probing the capacity network. The result is between zero and infinity. So use the max value to represent "infinity".
 
12:55 PM
@rightfold I rewrote Karel's lexer so its sole responsibility is the state transitions:
override def nextStateOrEnd(currentState: Int, input: Char): Int = currentState match {
  case END => input match {
    case '\n' => NEWLINE
    case ' ' => FIRST_SPACE
    case '/' => SLASH

    case '(' => OPEN_PAREN
    case ')' => CLOSE_PAREN
    case '{' => OPEN_BRACE
    case '}' => CLOSE_BRACE
    case ';' => SEMICOLON

    case '!' => BANG
    case '&' => AMP
    case '|' => PIPE

    case '0' | '1' | '2' | '3' | '4' | '5' | '6' | '7' | '8' | '9' => FIRST_DIGIT

    case 'A' | 'B' | 'C' | 'D' | 'E' | 'F' | 'G' | 'H' | 'I' | 'J' | 'K' | 'L' | 'M' | 'N' | 'O' | 'P' | 'Q' | 'R' | 'S' |
I can store the states alongside the edited text, which enables resumable lexing for efficient syntax highlighting.
 
1:30 PM
what's with '!'?
 
@Telkitty What about it?
 
The exclamation mark (British English and Commonwealth English) or exclamation point (American English) is a punctuation mark usually used after an interjection or exclamation to indicate strong feelings or high volume (shouting), and often marks the end of a sentence. Example: "Watch out!" Similarly, a bare exclamation mark (with nothing before or after) is often used in warning signs. Other uses include: In mathematics it denotes the factorial operation. Several computer languages use "!" at the beginning of an expression to denote logical negation: e.g. "!A" means "the logical negation of A...
 
In this context, ! is the boolean negation operator.
 
also known as 'not'
 
exactly
22
Q: Why is a `val` inside an `object` not automatically final?

0__What is the reason for vals not (?) being automatically final in singleton objects? E.g. object NonFinal { val a = 0 val b = 1 def test(i: Int) = (i: @annotation.switch) match { case `a` => true case `b` => false } } results in: <console>:12: error: could not emit swi...

interesting
 
1:49 PM
It easiest letter to read and write is X. Why then is it one of the fewest used?
 
Because X generally stands for the unknown, and alien conspiracies. But also hidden treasures sometimes. A very confusing character!
 
In Germanic languages the letter Q is least frequently used one. I guess that's why Trolltech used it as their namespace prefix. (Least chance of collisions.)
@fredoverflow Ah.
 
Oh, you meant inside of words? I thought you meant as a standalone character for variable names or something.
 
I mean in language.
> A study of 1,000 British adults found that 75% of British adults thought ‘scrum master’ was a fake job title, or didn’t know for sure if it was real
lol
 
 
1 hour later…
2:55 PM
> It may sound like a bad movie name, but Astro Teller: Captain of Moonshots is an actual person and an actual job title
@StackedCrooked lol indeed
 
So Skylake X seems to have some sort of "AVX512 throttle" that kicks in when the processor pulls too much current.
It doesn't affect the clock speeds. So you won't notice it unless you're running AVX512.
And it's devastating my AVX512 benchmarks.
 
3:44 PM
@Mysticial was there something similar in earlier generations?
 
Earlier generations don't have AVX512. They did throttle the AVX, but they did it using the clock speed. So it was obvious.
 
i just wasn’t sure if i was remembering the existence of the latter correctly
 
Only the "good" Skylake X and Xeons have the dedicated FMA unit that gives it the full AVX512 throughput. Here it seems as though Intel disables it when the thermals are too high.
Since that's not a clock speed change, you don't see it in CPUz.
But the AVX512 performance is halved.
I can partially get around it increasing the TDP limit from 140W to 400W in the BIOS. But I'll need more data to confirm a causation from a correlation.
 
reading cpuz is realiable for short period clock changes?
 
No, this throttling is sustained.
 
3:48 PM
i always checked the unhalted clock cycles with e.g. perfmonitor
 
The chip is too new. None of the hardware counters work yet.
 
oh, i c
 
I tried to VTune it yesterday. Nothing worked, not even the basic exploration which even works on AMD.
 
Seeing a throttle like this always make me wonder why utilizing one feature can be such a big thing and if it’s not possible to utilize the cpu even more. But then again, vector instructions allow the highest throughput, so you push the most data through the cpu…
 
Once I lifted the TDP limit, I got almost 2x the AVX512 on one of my benchmarks. And the temps shot up through the roof.
In most cases, even with the throttling the AVX512 code still beats the AVX2 code by around 10%. But there are some corner cases, where the AVX512 is less efficient. It causes the throttling, but the speed up it gains is not enough to offset the throttling. So it ends up being slower than AVX2.
I'm gonna be writing an entire blog about this later during the week.
Nobody else has noticed this yet since nobody has an AVX512 benchmark.
 
4:16 PM
so I guess that AVX512 will not save Intel from a Ryzen AMD?
 
probably not
Still have a ton of tests to run. But some time in the next few days, I'm gonna see if I can completely get rid of the AVX512-throttling by underclocking the CPU and completely removing the TDP limit. Though I don't actually want to remove it since I don't want to accidentally pull 1kW and destroy it.
 
@Mysticial I'm trying to remember--did you use liquid cooling for this build?
 
@Mysticial I'll take that as "yes". :-)
 
2
Q: A hello world program doesn't compile

n.m.I have started learning C++ for my programming class. I have downloaded this "Hello World" program #include <iostream> using namespace std; int main() { cout << "Hello, World!"; return 0; } but Turbo C++ complains about syntax errors and that it cannot find the include file <IOSTREAM>...

xD
"faq question" for turbo-c++ users
 
4:26 PM
folks.. what approach do you recomment to be able to interrupt running handlers of a boost asio io_service?
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb I recommend that you don't interrupt them--interrupting is not polite.
 
i want to get a future<R> from things posted to the io_service. that can be done with packaged_task. but i also want to be able to tell the tasks to interrupt..
the task will check regularly. like, it regularly checks if(mytask->is_interrupted()) return;
but I'm not sure about the best way for "mytask".. is there some boost thing that we can use here? like perhaps a cancelable packaged_task?
 
 
2 hours later…
6:10 PM
@Horttanainen this looks promising! thank you, sir :)
 
6:31 PM
@Mysticial is that the 10 core one with dual extra avx512 port?
 
yes
 
they keep saying FMA is half throughput for the other ports, does that also mean all AVX 512 instructions are half on those ports?
 
Not all. The only thing that hasn't doubled in width from Skylake Desktop to Skylake X are the two FMA units.
So they added a full-width one into a separate port on some of the Skylake X/Purley chips.
So everything that uses the FMA units (all floating-point + integer multiply) isn't doubled on the chips without that extra FMA unit.
 
ahh the opposite of haswell
0-o
 
7:05 PM
core files help a lot while fixing an invalid memory access issue but I was thinking how file system programmers debug their issues if their code did an invalid write over a different block which was may be part of some other file, that time I don't there would be any core file generated would most likely lead to file system corruption but then how those people will get to know which part of code did it
 
7:40 PM
@Mysticial Your fans seem to be overheating, they are glowing red! Have you thought about installing meta-fans?
 
@fredoverflow lies
 
Okay, that looks better. But what is that weird cable coming out of your wireless mouse?
 
@fredoverflow It's a wired mouse, the cable isn't in the picture. The white cable is ethernet.
 
I didn't know WLAN required a white cable?
 
lol
 
7:47 PM
Does the W in WLAN stand for white?
 
wireless
 
@Mysticial Now they're overheating (much) worse, and glowing blue (10000 Kelvins or so).
 
Fuck, what color do you guys want?
 
black, obviously
 
lol
 
7:50 PM
@JerryCoffin You seem to be mistaken, the blue water in my bathroom sink is cold, and the red water is warm.
 
@Mysticial Hot pink.
 
@Mysticial Can the fans actually change colors, or did you just shop the picture?
 
@Mysticial Ultraviolet (as an antivirus measure).
@fredoverflow Your plumber was mistaken (and so are most others).
 
@JerryCoffin Oh yeah? Well, your plumper... your plumper stamps on turtles and eats magic mushrooms!
 
@fredoverflow Every single light you see in that case can change colors. But not all of them have full spectrum control. The 3 on the top only have 6 colors. The ones in the front (on the radiator), the PSU and the motherboard can go full spectrum.
 
7:54 PM
@Mysticial If I had a case like that, I would probably never close it :) Or does it have a glass window?
 
@fredoverflow yes
Oh, the price went up since I got it.
I moved the 3 fans in the front to the top and placed the radiator in the front. The radiator fans came with the radiator and have full RGB spectrum.
 
I have a Fractal Design case which looks very nice from the outside, but I was terribly disappointed when I opened it up and found out there was not an infinity of smaller versions of itself inside, not even one :(
 
lol
If I had to do this build again, I'd go with the non-RGB version of that case. And put my own RGB fans on the top. The ones that corsair makes are kind of shit.
 
My lights are all blue which I find soothing.
 
All everything in there has color changing modes. Unfortunately, they're no way to synchronize them.
 
8:02 PM
The other day I was browing gaming mice, and there are versions with 16,777,216 colors. Why on earth would anybody need so many colors on a freaking mouse?
 
Supposedly, I should be able to synchronize everything on the mobo with the video card since they're both Gigabyte. I haven't bothered to figure how yet since I'm busy with running tests on the box.
But I can't sync with the fans or the PSU leds since they don't have software control.
 
@fredoverflow She's a fluffer, not a plumper, you ignorant clod!
 
@Mysticial Do the gigabyte cards actually have a gigabyte of video ram? :)
 
lol
 
Or do graphics cards have even more these days? I haven't kept up in a long time.
I think mine has 512 MB, but I'm not sure.
 
8:04 PM
@fredoverflow New ones frequently have around 4-8 gigabytes.
 
And do games look 10 times better these days, compared to when you had just 256 MB?
49
Q: How to check video memory size?

drgrogIs there a way to check the size of the video memory? Specifically, is there one that works accurately for both integrated GPU's as well as PCI/AGP graphics cards? Many integrated GPU's have dynamically allocated memory, so the solution would hopefully return either the maximum available video m...

Wow, it appears I have 2 GB... when did that happen?
 
@fredoverflow My 1070 has 8 GB of VRAM.
 
8:23 PM
@fredoverflow I hav the same card as Etienne, so 8GB of VRAM as well.
 
I have a 1050 TI in my Ryzen and a 1050 in that Skylake X build.
Haven't really done enough gaming to justify going higher.
 
@Borgleader Just for the sake of being contrary, I'm tempted to temporarily build a machine with, say, 4 Gig of main memory, and 8 Gig of video memory...
 
8:39 PM
@JerryCoffin If memory serves, you can't make use of more VRAM than you have ordinary RAM
something about mapping vram to system ram
 
@Puppy Technically you only map when you need to copy data to the GPU.
 
hm, I thought they were permanently mapped
but I haven't looked in to such matters for a decade so probably out of date
 
@Puppy Now that's my kind of excuse! :-)
 
@JerryCoffin That could work, until you open Chrome :P
 
@Puppy On D3D at least you have to manually lock the buffer, which does the mapping. Then you unlock it when you're done.
 
8:52 PM
@Borgleader They should rename it Cromes
Like Siemens
 
@Borgleader I can see it now: "we decided to bump it to Chrome version 60, because it now takes 60 Gigabytes of RAM just to start up, and at least 60 more if you want to actually view a web page."
 
9:07 PM
@EtiennedeMartel I thought that was just to prevent the GPU from concurrently trying to do shit with it
 
 
1 hour later…
10:14 PM
waves @Flexo
 
@Borgleader Next time, try using more than one finger when you wave, okay?
 
10:51 PM
I created the first draft of the software license that will save the Linux ecosystem: https://github.com/systemdsucks/stop-systemd-license Go ahead and contribute!
@fredoverflow you use it all the time. It's idiomatic when creating anonymous interface implementations
Jul 22 '16 at 14:36, by Bartek Banachewicz
being an SO moderator would be an instant disqualification if not for Flexo and Boltclock
 
11:04 PM
@sehe I wasn't talking about anonymous classes:
public static void main(String[] args) {
    Runnable foo = new Runnable() {
        public void run() {
        }
    };
    class Bar implements Runnable {
        public void run() {
        }
    }
    Bar bar = new Bar();
}
You were talking about foo, but I was talking about bar.
 

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