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1:21 PM
> I came across your Github page and I think it’s awesome that you are in the IT biz.
I think it's not awesome that you refer to it as "the IT biz".
 
Ven
biz always sounded like "show"biz to me
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm sure he has "great opportunities" for you
 
> I was wondering how you currently run your business and whether you are looking for a better way to do it?
 
It seems to follow the original almost scene by scene.
 
1:29 PM
Thinks I'm a freelancer.
 
Ven
Aren't you an one of those emoji dealers?
 
lol
> Read our most popular blog post "How this freelancer from Blegium started an EU-based company for almost no money”
Don't go to Blegium.
 
> Blegium
 
"Blegium"?
 
@wilx I kinda got turned off by the second trailer.
 
Xeo
1:37 PM
@Ven Robot only deals in emojibake
 
Eggplant is sold out already
 
Ven
space emoji
 
Xeo
2:03 PM
@Rerito I was not talking about emojibukkake
 
2:23 PM
Consider giving the library maintainers a heads-up — sehe 15 mins ago
Thanks for the heads up. — Marshall Clow 10 mins ago
Immediate response. Love it.
 
2:34 PM
@sehe Particularly impressive given that Marshall lives in San Diego, so this is at about 0700.
 
Ven
@StackedCrooked shit+arrow up/down seems broken on coliru?
the editor part I mean
 
user1804599
wwwoooooo
 
user1804599
multi-target logging with semigroups
 
user1804599
finally actually using my library lol
 
Ell
2:46 PM
nice :3
 
@JerryCoffin The hive mind never sleeps
 
@sehe Apparently correct.
 
Maybe more like how spiders think with their web (as well)
That was a bullshit flag if ever I saw one. Literally
 
nwp
3:03 PM
yay, precompiled headers brought down compilation time from 39 to 38 seconds!
I must be doing something wrong
 
Ell
@rightfold can I ask for your help on an SQLAlchemy problem I'm having with ambiguous relationships?
 
@nwp how large is the total of the precompiled header? and how much is included that isn't in the precompiled header
 
Ven
ew
 
nwp
3:18 PM
@ratchetfreak 4.1MB vs 4.8MB using gcc -E, though a lot of the non-PCH stuff includes headers that are in the PCH
I'll try to just put everything in the PCH and see if it has a greater effect
 
> What are the unicodes for alt + <arrow-key>
 
the revenge of the unicodes
 
nwp
38 seconds... I think gcc silently ignores it
if someone gave me 133MB of stuff as input I'd probably ignore it too
 
3:40 PM
@nwp -Winvalid-pch
 
@nwp you can also use -H to print all used (precompiled) headers
 
nwp
with -Winvalid-pch -H it prints no warnings and a bunch of headers that "Multiple include guards may be useful for"
apparently everything works correctly besides the compilation time not decreasing
 
@SpongyFruitcake lol
 
@nwp then it’s probably not parsing, --time-report then
 
nwp
3:49 PM
it's probably the linker that takes all the time
I guess the parse doesn't take significant time and PCH only help to reduce parsing time. Sigh.
 
and if you pre-instantiate templates in the precompiled header? template instantiation takes 26% in that dump
 
@nwp also, does that mean your linking takes 20s?
 
nwp
4:06 PM
@Darklighter I think linking is 17 seconds and qmake takes another 3.
 
with lto?
 
nwp
@ratchetfreak Is that viable without tool support? I mean looking through the code and instanciating all templates that only use types defined in precompiled headers seems like something a build system should do.
@Darklighter without
I should try lto, just for fun
 
i don’t know what huge of a code base you are compiling, but if it’s no static executable, linking without lto shouldn’t take that long
 
@nwp or even just the complex and/or deeply recursive templates though with stl the way it is...
 
I'm hungry.
I want bread & cheese.
 
Ven
4:14 PM
and saucisson
 
@thecoshman Personally, I like the answer, but I hate the solution, way too complicated :)
 
@Ven Why not. I'm going to the pub.
 
Ven
@Morwenn nice :D
 
@Morwenn pub is a keyword in Rust.
 
Ven
^ the science part of the lounge
> VS Code uses 13% CPU when idle due to blinking cursor rendering
 
4:22 PM
@Ven That's just the tip of the iceberg. Once many-core machines become commonplace, it will become standard practice for every thread to just spin because it's the type of shitty programming that's easy to do and it works.
I'm surprised Firefox hasn't started doing that for every single tab.
 
Ven
Firefox has many ways to get your computer to hang already, it'll get on the higher-hanging fruits later.
 
And don't forget that the spinning needs to have a memory leak, otherwise it's done wrong.
 
@fredoverflow Not the most interesting definition.
Do you think the C++ Toronto pub crawl means that they will be embracing Rust?
Anyway, I'm off, bye :)
 
Ven
4:41 PM
cya !
 
@Ven I'll link the same thing I've linked in discord: blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20031010-00/?p=42203
 
nwp
@Darklighter 4953 lines of code in 21 .cpp/.h pairs, not huge at all
it does some funkyness with creating a dll though, I should see what happens if I remove that, if I even can
 
i think there is something wrong with your setup then
i link a static executable of 71 MiB in 15 s, and that’s on windows with ld.bfd, dynamic links in 0.9 s (no lto tho for both)
 
zero cost abstractions killing the compile time...
 
5:19 PM
@ratchetfreak nowadays I'm using languages with zero compile cost abstractions
 
I guess it isn't really zero-cost if it makes you pull your hair out at compile-time.
 
nwp
I ripped out the dll stuff, didn't change much. I'm now at 41 seconds and apparently it now takes time parsing.
I suspect Qt is just fat and parsing Qt headers and linking to their libs just takes time.
 
5:52 PM
the project i was referring to links the entirety of Qt
 
Ven
@milleniumbug I'm writing zero lines of code myself
 
nwp
@Ven since he said the last thing D needs is him that is probably a bad sign
 
Ven
@nwp I remember that talk. I really liked it.
I think he delivered it well :).
 
nwp
-flto appears to dislike extern "C"
I don't even know why we did that, should have just shoved it through g++ anyways.
 
So Intel is gonna up its Skylake server core counts to compete with AMD. ahahahaha...
 
@Mysticial at the cost of what? cache I presume?
 
At the cost of nothing, because they have higher density.... And already made massive CPUs.
 
@Mgetz My guess is that the Skylake Purley die is native 32 cores. They intended to only sell them as high as 28 (4 cores disabled) for yields. But I guess in this case AMD is forcing them to max it out.
So it'll come down to price.
How many 32-core Skylake chips can Intel produce given their yields? And at what cost? They're going against AMD's Naples 32-core with 8-channel DDR4. Skylake Purley will only have 6-channel DDR4.
IOW, Intel probably got caught with their pants down.
 
given that last I saw the average yields most of the fabs were getting at 10nm was 50%... yeah costs are going to rise
 
6:30 PM
With these high core-count dies, the yield will give you distribution of 32-core, 30-core, 28-core, etc... (or whatever granularity).
 
@Mysticial what clock speed though?
 
@Mgetz That's also adjustable based on the yield.
 
Intel is going to drop the CPU cost, which will keep AMD at bay.
 
If Intel needs to over-extend itself to produce enough 32-core chips, and the yields are shit, we might have a market flooded with cheap lower core chips. I'd like that.
 
@Mysticial just thinking this could push 10nm even further out to keep yields up
 
6:32 PM
@Mysticial What process is AMD using?
 
14nm
 
@Puppy TSMC, AMD doesn't make their own chips
 
@Mgetz I thought it was Global Foundries?
 
@Mysticial I'm going to assume you're right and I'm wrong
 
If AMD is really gonna put 16-core chips into the HEDT. I really wonder how Intel will respond.
 
6:35 PM
I would guess that depends on the efficiency per core. I suspect both are not in a hurry to get in another mhz war
 
what about a core# war
 
they'll both lose to ARM (and already are pretty badly)
 
@Puppy Intel got caught there on the consumer end. They've been denying the high-core-count chips from consumers for so many years. So that's the first place AMD is hitting them at - with the Ryzen 7s.
 
@Mgetz Nah, I think that there can't be anything more than a slow migration to ARM, and I think that ARM is still not competitive in the server space
 
@Puppy define what you mean by competitive. Both MS and Google are spinning up non x86 cores
 
6:44 PM
they're starting to spin up some non-x86 cores
 
@Mgetz ARM isn't gonna load a page full of ads any faster than an x86 core.
 
Ell
but power consumption though
 
@Mysticial no but if it uses less power and can run just as many VMs
 
I imagine most of their software doesn't really support ARM very well if at all
@Ell Yeah, but performance is still some way behind
 
@Ell What if I told you that I don't really give a shit about how much power my desktop draws if it takes 3 minutes to load a website full of ads?
 
6:45 PM
@Mysticial server, not desktop
 
Ell
@Mysticial I thought we were talking about google servers here
 
oh
 
Ell
it can serve a page of ads just as quick :D
 
don't think it can
 
yeah MS asked intel for a 16core atom chip awhile back
because their loads weren't fast but they were parallel
so 32-48 cores per die would be useful to them
even if they are slow
 
6:47 PM
@Ell No it can't. It can load 100 pages with ads in about an hour if you have 100 ARM cores. But it's not gonna get a single page of ads to load in under 30 minutes.
 
that's more the KNL area
 
6:58 PM
@Puppy KNL?
 
Knights Landing
 
well all I know is MS wants chips with a massive amount of cores, and not in a Sci-Cortex way
 
7:17 PM
I don't know if they want chips with a lot of cores. But they definitely want a lot of money.
 
I think they're planning to go from one to another
 
Xeo
7:49 PM
9
Q: Recruiter demanding I sign dodgy paperwork after joining job

JavaGuruSo I recently got a job through a recruiter, everything has been going well I've been completing my tasks on time or before. The recruiter who got me the role is working with my employer on a part time basis. As he's responsible for hiring over half of the team at my current employer and occasion...

wtf
 
8:03 PM
think that just no in this case
it would be slightly interesting if he did not already have the job
 
8:14 PM
chipped a tooth today- a big one
 
8:28 PM
@Mikhail The guy came back with some specs: hpe.com/us/en/servers/superdome.html
4 blades - each with 2 sockets, 48 DIMMs
 
@Mysticial How does it combine to appear as one system?
 
You can configure it up to 8 blades for 384 cores and 24TB of memory.
@Mikhail Extremely heavily NUMA?
 
So, like you have 4 motherboards. How do you install 1 Windows on the whole thing?
 
Some of the older Opteron boards let you connect two of them via some PCIe plug to form an 8-socket system.
I assume that to the OS, it looks like one giant motheraboard with up to 16 sockets and 384 DIMMs.
 
Yes, but I guess the plug needs to be something other than PCIe to support the CPU's QPI? But also Intel processors aren't rated past 8 CPUs?
 
8:35 PM
Intel allows 3rd parties to make their own NUMA controllers to extend it.
And I obviously don't know the details.
 
For example, the E7-8890 is hardwired with a Max CPU Configuration 8. As we know the 4xxx line is 4 CPUs, the 8xxx line is 8 CPUs, and the additional CPUs require extra circuitry.
 
There's a "Contact Us" button at the top of that page.
 
Can you send the guy an email :-)
 
user1804599
9:03 PM
@fredoverflow lol
 
9:15 PM
@Mgetz For a chip this large, 50% yield would be really good. I can believe that can get to 50% with the possibility of up to 4 bad cores, but if they need all 32 cores, my first guess at the yield would probably be closer to 10%.
 
@JerryCoffin And I will gladly buy the chips with 16 working of 32 cores for dirt cheap if they'll clock as high as a desktop.
TBH, that might have to be Intel's strategy if they want to stay competitive both against AMD's 32-core Naples server and their 16-core HEDT.
 
@Mysticial You are the soul of generosity, my friend.
 
Or they can drop the price by $10, and make slightly less than "mad cash"
 
9:52 PM
Hey guys
It's free karma!
0
Q: How to organize includes for a header-only library that wants to expose mutually recursive functions?

VermillionAzureI'm creating a library such that there are functions that look like this: template <typename T> bool A (int, int, T&); template <typename T> bool B (int, int, T&); template <typename T> class IFoo { virtual T funct(int i) = 0; }; template <typename T> class FooA : IFoo<T> { virtual T ...

 
jrh
10:09 PM
Interesting; I think casually reading C++ questions (along with reading Stroustrup) is helping me remember C++. I think I'll idle here just to see what comes up.
 
feel free to lurk here
 
@jrh Why do you want to remember C++?
 
jrh
I'm going to need it for work; also it's interesting to go back to after C#
 
@jrh Curious. What do you do?
 
jrh
my language progression went like this: (rather basic, C-ish) C++ -> Assembly -> C -> C#
I'm an embedded developer, I work with machine vision
 
10:13 PM
@jrh Mmm I see.
Btw have you heard of BKP Horn?
I'm taking a "Smartphone Vision" class right now. Lots of machine vision stuff in it.
 
jrh
I haven't, his work looks pretty interesting though
 
@jrh Ah cool.
Yeah, I'm fortunate he's teaching a class at my school right now lol
 
74
Q: Is 💩 (Unicode 'pile of poo') considered NSFW?

Jason CCan I use the 💩 character as a legitimate status indication on, say, a web application, or in a desktop application? Or will it offend/embarrass people? NSFW = "Not safe/suitable for work", although it's also become generally used regardless of the environment (for example: public places), and ...

2
 
looool
 
10:41 PM
@jrh So "embedded reporters" were the ones who always had crappy video taken on (not very) smart phones. Does this mean an "embedded developer" is one who writes lousy code with second-rate tools? :-)
 
jrh
I hope not, otherwise the IOT market might be doomed
"embedded" just means that it's a system that doesn't really get interacted with by the user after it's installed.
An embedded system is a computer system with a dedicated function within a larger mechanical or electrical system, often with real-time computing constraints. It is embedded as part of a complete device often including hardware and mechanical parts. Embedded systems control many devices in common use today. Ninety-eight percent of all microprocessors are manufactured as components of embedded systems. Examples of properties of typically embedded computers when compared with general-purpose counterparts are low power consumption, small size, rugged operating ranges, and low per-unit cost. This comes...
 
does it count if I embed myself deeply inside my chair
 
As long as you don't interact
 
perfect
 
@Mikhail I'm dark matter. I barely interact with anything.
 
10:55 PM
(that is a poor analogy)
 
@Mikhail Unfortunately, I'm too broke to help out with its finances.
 
user1804599
@Ven ^
 
11:22 PM
Friday's Daily Mail: "Google, the terrorists' friend..." #bbcpapers #tomorrowspaperstoday (via @hendopolis) https://t.co/92KrXRLXmq
Western media is retarded
 
I believe that that is an inference for which you will need substantially more data
 
@Abyx You think this is restricted to western media?
 
what's retarded about this is that that's a surprise to anybody
the Web is the friend of everybody who wants to share and spread information, and that includes terrorists and criminals as well as governments, businesses, political parties and individuals
 
I mean why'd one need to google on how to kill people with a truck?
 
that too
I dunno, when attempting to kill people with a truck, perhaps it's a surprisingly common problem to merely injure them
apparently there were about 5-6 more times casualties than dead, so from some perspective, he didn't do a very good job
 
11:28 PM
welp, dunno what his job was.
regular car accidents kill much more people
also I don't believe that "the terror" thing actually works - people tend to forget an ignore things, especially scary things
 
I agree
no terrorist could hope to kill as many British people as the British people do
7
 
Should have played more GTA
 
@Abyx perhaps it's like going to Stack Overflow to check if the solution you've thought of for the problem you're trying to solve has any gotchas, or if there's simply a better way
 
@Mysticial GTX 1060 is up and running \o/
 
of course, that usually results in poking around until you have three different questions on the same topic, then reading through every comment on the page to see if anyone at all is complaining about the solutions provided, then researching the complaints...
it's not like having the most votes or being accepted is an indicator of the best answer
or a definitive one, rather
 
11:48 PM
@jaggedSpire The only reliable indicator of its being definitive is that you know (and trust) the person who wrote it.
 
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