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12:00 AM
@crasic I should look into that.
 
Dynamic linking is also good for a "module" style system. For example, I wrote a microscope control program that needs to support a dozen different hardware devices. Its not possible to have all the devices attached at once. With dynamic loading, I can choose which device to load and unload. If it were static, all the devices would be built into the exe.
 
What does one call dynamic loading of fixed address libraries
 
"stupid"?
 
A function call?
 
"baremetal"
 
12:05 AM
I mean, you can't just execute random shit, so you need to call things like `LoadLibraryEx
 
@Puppy Even Linus prefers static linking.
 
that guy is not an authority on anything
 
@Mikhail You can in bootloader
 
@Mikhail Which... is realistically totally fine.
 
@Mysticial I have module based power-on-self-test. I have a coordinating application that looks to a fixed address for a module header, it executes in real mode so I have full system. I load my ABI and link in the true location of module entry point and module mailbox
Dynamic linking of fixed address libraries
 
@Puppy There is ample evidence to disagree with that statement.
 
like what?
 
@Puppy If I read your comment between the lines, I would also say you're incorrect. I'm sure he's an authority on some things. But on other things, he's just an asshole.
 
@Puppy The commit log on the linux kernel?
 
@CaptainGiraffe How many hours have you spent going through his commits and ascertaining their quality?
 
12:12 AM
@CaptainGiraffe git-filter-branch
@Puppy Emprical Test, I have many machines running linux, ipso facto he didn't break anything so they are "good enough for me"
 
@crasic That is not evidence of anything
 
Oh for fucks sake, are you arguing that Linus is not knowing the state of the linux kernel?
 
@Puppy And you wouldn't be qualified to intervene unless you are on the project, so who cares
 
for one, he could have totally broken everything and just had it fixed by other people.
and for two, even if he did not break anything, whether or not that actually represents being good or not depends entirely on how much else he achieved and how much investment he put in
 
Everyone's a critic ¯_(ツ)_/¯
 
12:15 AM
@crasic you lost this: \
 
and for three, even if his code technically works and he's solely responsible for all of it, ever, there's a large mile between "runs without error" and "actually good"
 
>> on how much else he achieved and how much investment he put in

Fantastic.
 
@Puppy It's easier to criticize than drive a project.
 
that is true
but that doesn't make criticism invalid
 
What if the project is driven by the community? A few instances of Torvalds holding back Linux, primarily as it related to HPC in the early 2000s. Also recently not merging the graphics subsystem that AMD developed.
 
12:16 AM
There is a large mile between "truly aweful" and "good enough to not bottleneck the long term goals of the project"
 
and more importantly, in this case, I'm not even criticising him
all I'm saying is, "The Linux kernel works" is not actual evidence of anything.
 
Well, depends
I bring up linux from scratch on a new platform in a day
 
@Puppy You were saying "for one, he could have totally broken everything and just had it fixed by other people."
 
10 years ago it was like 1 month development
That to me is great progress it works at all
 
right, but do you have any idea if any aspect of that progress was actually worked on by him?
maybe he just worked on other areas.
 
12:18 AM
It is evidence of real world application, while you pull towards code pedantry
grammatics vs literature
@Puppy True, but by the nature of his lead role in the organization, he has quite a lot of control over the process
 
@CaptainGiraffe He could have done. Do you know that he didn't? Did you dig through years of commit logs to figure out if that happened?
 
so even if he doesn't write it, it is endorsed explicitly
 
Linux kernel working is a strong statement, you can literally make a living going around the Linux kernel's packet handing. Personally, keep getting fuck over by memory allocations errors. My friends at MS tell me the way its written its not possible to do static driver verification in the same way MS does it.
 
@Puppy And I'm not defending him, I just think what makes it "good" or successful has more factors than quality of logic, process, and code. Sometimes making progress is better than perfecting what exists, and not every person can push such a large project to make consistent progress
 
because if you actually dug through the commit logs and actually read the commits and checked that none of them were really dumb, that might be evidence of something
 
12:21 AM
It sounds like a bunch of salty devs bitching about their manager
 
@crasic I'm not disagreeing with you on what good or successful is. The problem is the shockingly low standard of proof. It's like a weird perversion of guilt by association.
 
@Puppy I know you're not a five-year old asking why for the frumpteenth time. So I'll just stop here.
 
"This guy is associated with that bit of software I like; therefore he's great"
 
@Puppy He hasn't been deposed
 
The guy created it and has stood by it for 25 years. Apparently this equals not an authority.
 
12:22 AM
@Puppy Continues to play an active role in a project that is consistently providing results for me and my business ventures
 
that is... incredibly vague about what role he plays.
and doesn't even state that he's any good at playing it
 
relative to whom dude
 
Puppy, could you name any person that is an authority on any topic? (besides the pope)
 
certainly not him
 
neat, so the pope is not an authority on Catholicism? Your standards are quite high.
 
12:26 AM
you never specified what he was an authority on
realistically, Catholicism is dumb, and it's easy to find anybody who is an authority on dumb. The Pope has less claim to that than most since his particular brand of dumb makes him a rich and powerful man.
 
21 mins ago, by Puppy
that guy is not an authority on anything
so if one would find one thing he is authority on, you're wrong then :)
 
the only people who are authorities are the people who published scientific papers proving that they are authorities
 
Well, I wouldn't ask you to rate the pope as an authority on human rights now, would I. Thats would be an extremely silly use of this language.
 
I'm an authority on human lefts AMA
 
Newton knew jack shit about physics by modern standards, but he was an authority of his time, he wouldn't be an authority now
its always relative to other people
 
12:31 AM
@Puppy I have quite a few of those papers you speak of under my belt. I would not consider myself an authority in any of those general subjects.
 
no, only of the specific thing you wrote a paper on
 
If only 1,000, even as much 100,000 people in the world have any concept of what you are talking about, then the few folks plugged into that community would have any ability to judge your relative "correctness"
but you are all relative authorities to laymen or people in other fields
 
the general area isn't really an authority but it's kinda a lazy authority where I might take it if I'm not feeling like doing any work to think about it
 
so... Linus isn't an authority on Linux kernel because he hasn't written a paper on Linux kernel. What a shame.
 
@Puppy Sweet, I'm an authority on secure NFC .
 
12:34 AM
He needs to catch up
 
@milleniumbug He just need to write a paper, not on the lkml.
 
@Puppy is operating with his own definition of authority, meaning anyone that makes him jealous of their success
 
@milleniumbug Well, you also need to write a paper that passes peer review and gets published in a journal and all that other stuff, but I'll be honest and say that I'm less likely to check that sort of detail
 
Because its certainly not the dictionary definition
 
fun question: are dictionaries authorities?
if I recall correctly in French, they are authorities, but I'm pretty sure that in English, they are not
 
12:35 AM
only if they have a sheriff star on the cover
 
@Puppy Can a relative value be absolute?
 
@Puppy Why would that be a fun question?
 
@Puppy It's not any different than english in that way, it is by agreement of other people, and authority is alway relative to who or over whom?
> 1. the power or right to give orders, make decisions, and enforce obedience.
> 2. person or organization having power or control in a particular, typically political or administrative, sphere.
> 3. the power to influence others, especially because of one's commanding manner or one's recognized knowledge about something.
Don't see, "someone good enough for @puppy to consider qualified"
Fundamentally, you are arguing that he isn't qualified, not that he isn't an authority
and those are very different things
 
well I must say that I did assume that the other participants are not talking in the context of their patches they're submitting to the Linux kernel
so I'm pretty much feeling that they are basically the same thing
 
I have now tried to parse your sentences, all I can come up with is UB,
 
12:45 AM
well, what it really boils down to is that I have a very strict standard for such matters which seems to be a lot stricter than everybody else, so I decline to recognize him as anybody worth listening to
 
you shoot yourself in foot, life is politics
basically, to everyone around you, it just sounds conceited, and nobody wants to work with conceited people
 
not overly concerned about that since I'm pretty well known here
 
1:00 AM
@crasic I don't think I'm acting too far out of line to say that many people here have at least some degree of disdain for both politics and politicians. Trying to convince us to become politicians is unlikely to get very far.
 
@JerryCoffin you should be political
 
@Mikhail Constitutional monarchs, and the gods who ordain them, are prohibited from participating in politics.
 
1:19 AM
@JerryCoffin I think, what I'm trying to say is that everyone already is one, to some extent
 
@crasic All humans have defects of some sort or other, I suppose.
 
@JerryCoffin I prefer flavor of diet soda to regular, for one
 
1:47 AM
@crasic In the end, there can be only one (which must be Mountain Dew, of course).
 
2:11 AM
using iphone 6 screen protector on galaxy S8 until the new S8 screen protector I bought online arrives
 
2:37 AM
trying to get some help with telstra (telco company) because their sim does not work
transferred to 5 people, still problem not solved
apparently just a problem with activate the sim
how to boost employment - just hire a bunch of incompetent people
transferred again
will you keep you updated on just how incompetent australia largest telco really is
 
@Puppy No. They are followers.
For example, the word "literally" has been misused so much in the last couple of years that the dictionaries have started updating their definitions to match the new meaning.
They don't decide what a word means. They observe how people use the word and based on that they form a definition.
And that's always evolving.
 
3:11 AM
now waiting on land line instead
 
3:21 AM
problem not solved, awaiting call back
maybe telstra has a problem on their backend
that's why sim wasn't working to start with
but that's just speculation
transferred 8 time, problem not solved, lol
legend
 
 
1 hour later…
4:52 AM
Hm, this person thinks thieves, beggars, robbers are part of this world.
He considers them to be all kinds of criminals that exist in this world.
However, not sure if beggars belong in that list.
He might be right. It's wrong to beg.
 
5:35 AM
0
A: A Moose, Some Silly Putty ... And A Desperate Plea For Help

TelkittyStackOfFlower Hat Consisting of: A bunch of (possibly fake) flowers. A metallic fruit bowl A small white towel Towel and flower signifies cleaning and beautify. Fruit bowls are for fruits (reps). This is a hat for getting more than 15 reps in a day with at least some reps gained from ...

shameless link dumping
 
 
3 hours later…
9:00 AM
@StackedCrooked I beg to differ.
 
 
2 hours later…
11:01 AM
> Dare with me
Cleanup in aisle 10
 
> shameless self dumping
1 message moved to Trash can
What happened to regular bin?
 
11:43 AM
Got binned :P
 
 
1 hour later…
12:54 PM
^ This guy is really a genius.
 
1:18 PM
@StackedCrooked Damn. That is cool.
I see a market for these things for possible post-apocalyptic but electrified future.
 
 
1 hour later…
2:50 PM
@Mikhail That was me :)
@StackedCrooked Yes absolutely, LXC does just that
@LucDanton Y'a de bonnes trouvailles
 
 
1 hour later…
sbi
@StackedCrooked They got tails, so they aren't apes, but monkey. Unfortunately, I know where little about south American monkeys, so I cannot help you any further.
 
4:19 PM
@StackedCrooked Looks like a capybara to me
Just next to a black spider monkey
 
sbi
@ArkadiuszKoćma "Spider monkey" was my first thought, but not knowing much anything about them, it was just a gut feeling.
@wilx "...you can simply cock the gun..." He's down on his knees begging for someone to make this pun.
 
after you cock your gun, you can gun your cock?
 
 
2 hours later…
6:30 PM
@sbi For some reason I'm reminded of cuckoo clocks.
But a slightly alternative version of it.
 
sbi
@Puppy Um.
@StackedCrooked ??
 
Never mind :)
 
 
3 hours later…
9:25 PM
> Sir it's against the law to rape our customers
> <-> Fuck you this is a free country!
 
9:40 PM
@Columbo I've yet to see a free country. All of them that claim to be free actually charge pretty high tax rates.
 
@JerryCoffin And invade your privacy for national security
 
10:02 PM
@JerryCoffin Yet they are the cheapest of all.
 
@Puppy Some are inexpensive. Others are truly cheap.
 
10:23 PM
1 message moved to C
 

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