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Ven
Ven
18:07
@Zoidberg ^he uses the word "fool" as much as you do :P
some guy was arguing, that in the day of industrialisation and assembly lines
that there is no feeling of seeing a job thru, from beginning to end
no sense of owning something completely
everyone specialize at making nuts, bolts or screws
and another especializes in putting them together.
is the feeling of achievement greater, if you make 1 car, or a million screws
@Charlie Having played Factorio, I'd say making million screws is pretty damn impressive
Like, if your job is to supply screws, you should be the best at that
but if you want to make something cool in ur life, like an art piece, or a song
maybe you shouldnt outsource the painting part, or picking of colors, or choosing the motive
as it would be someone elses "child" as it were
Ven
Ven
it's fun reading deleted answers :P
@Charlie please make your point using more than 3 words per message...
instant messenger syndrome lol
Ven
Ven
18:16
I have no problem with that for 1-on-1 chat, but not here
I feel like reading the poem..
@Charlie Maybe, but you should definitely outsource producing paint and brushes
rather than a question
true, like you do the gpu and the os
maybe its a question of what you want to do urself
1 hour ago, by milleniumbug
Depends on what your goal is. If your goal is to make a game, using existing game engines is the way to do it.
18:17
Id hate making something, knowing it was just a setting in some game-generator
Game generators are different from game engines
I dont agree at all, you see the new alien game? they used their own inhouse engine
Ven
Ven
are you still talking about this? holy shit
developed from scratch, to accomplish just what they wanted
what alien game
Ven
Ven
doesn't matter anyway. don't compare what you want to do and the studios of companies with budget that are literally millions of dollars.
enough is enough
Ven
Ven
...and where people have experience with stuff
it's just a vampire-feeding
so because someone wants to make a unity game, I cant discuss openGL?
someone rich*
Ven
Ven
18:21
i have no idea what you're talking about. i don't understand your words.
I'm reading the wikipedia article, and it says:
> The new engine allowed the development team to accommodate technical aspects like the game's atmospheric and lighting effects as well as the alien's behavioural design.
like look at half life and source
the company is built around the engine
Do you have a specific reason for making a new engine?
@Charlie That's because they make money out of it
Do you have a specific reason to use unity?
Ven
Ven
first off, no it's not (or at least hasn't been for a solid decade), second, don't compare your hobbies with stuff people have been getting experienced with for 20years / do that during their dayjob / are seasoned programmers / are 100s to work together
18:23
Not the same argument
so you would follow in the footsteps of who exactly?
not the ones who paved the path?
Ven
Ven
following their footsteps would mean reusing their work
Argh, ffs, are you making a game, or a game engine?
im not arguing that my custom loader and architecture is on par with source
Decide on that, then I can continue conversation
Ven
Ven
18:24
doesn't matter anyways. if you wanna build a game engine "for the learning experience", go ahead. but don't think you'll achieve great things and build great games with it
nobody wants to hear about half done game engines. stay quiet until you have a playable link to point to
what kind of negative group is this
they are like half done scripting languages... cool but not done
"dont do this" "dont think ull do good" "back off, dont talk about stuff"
Ven
Ven
you're confusing "negative" with "realistic", seriously
i told you to go ahead if you wanted to. sure.
18:26
I was asking about how to make my draw call faster
and someone argued I should just use unity
@Charlie and you got a response
some of the answers were good yes
Ven
Ven
i'm not responsible for whatever puppy said or for the insults he threw at you
What are you doing now? Arguing with strangers on the internet
is this really stack overflow?
18:27
No, this is Sparta
where you get told to use unity and stop asking technical questions
Ven
Ven
no, this is Lounge<C++>
Ven
Ven
we have rules, btw
I can't make you do anything, in the end, it'll be you who chooses what to do.
18:28
you can call glMakeDrawCallsFasterPlz()... obviously you can't just make draw calls faster without analyzing it and doing the work of optimizing
So if you really dislike the advice people here provide you, you can leave, or ignore the subject altogether
nwp
nwp
@Charlie how many draw calls per frame do you make?
just shy of 60
It's the group of professional programmers(vast majority). so don't wonder that you receive such responses
nwp
nwp
60 seems a lot, maybe you can batch some together?
18:30
like I imagine a professional violinist knows some standard sheets by heart
60000 draw calls per frame is nothing on a decent gpu
but that he plays something he likes himself privately
@nwp 60? a lot? erm, not really =/
im not talking about the physics part
thats a different thread altogether
the physics isnt limited at all, like im doing a cycle per 0.01ms if not less
are you measuring gpu-side timings with queryies of GL_TIME_ELAPSED ? if not then you havent even started optimizing it
18:33
isnt the refresh rate set gpu side btw? like you cant change the refresh rate
did you enable vsync?
if not then the refresh rate is wtv how long your frame takes
@Charlie you suck
wait why
Ven
Ven
^ this is why nobody likes you
hm, the refresh rate is limited by the gpu
18:35
because having a dedicated thread for a given task is a really silly design.
u cant go past the refresh rate
like, its literally the hz ur screen is updating?
its not a dedicated thread
you can render frames as fast as you like.
Ven
Ven
^
it will be limited by the refresh rate of the screen?
18:38
no, you can disable that and draw as fast as you can, changing the displayed frame multiple times per single scan of the monitor,
it is called tearing, as in tearing a piece of paper
vsync isnt the problem
the problem is optimizing the draw call
and someone suggest unity
of course it is irrelevant
you asserted that you are limited by the monitor
and now ur talking about tearing paper
no, ur talking about refresh rates, and im arguing its limited by the montor
not the draw calls
user1804599
Fap fap fap.
@Charlie it is not
18:40
stackoverflow
my cup runneth over
you can render faster than what your monitor will display, it results in screen tearing
@Charlie snackoverflow
sure, if you have vsync disabled
the evening of fucking raw open gl
LetMeExplainHowCoolMyProjectIs.stackexchange.com
18:42
@doug65536 s/Is/Isnt/
@Borgleader ty
right
what if you dont answer
if you dont know the answer
isntead of telling me to use unity or fiddling with vsync
28 mins ago, by Ven
@Charlie please make your point using more than 3 words per message...
18:43
does it really matter? :|
yes, its annoyingyoure taking a ton of vertical space for no reason
use unity and don't waste our time ®
nwp
nwp
why does sort (GNU coreutils) 8.25 think "Buff modifier", "Buffs", "Buff time modifier" is sorted?
@nwp doing it wrong, like sorting by their address
... nope
18:50
@nwp I have sort (GNU coreutils) 8.24, and can't reproduce
nwp
nwp
I type sort, then the 3 strings with newlines, then CTRL-D and it shows me the "wrong" order
OH, the command
➜  gdbplz git:(master) ✗ cat a
Buff modifier
Buffs
Buff time modifier
➜  gdbplz git:(master) ✗ cat a | sort
Buff modifier
Buff time modifier
Buffs
@milleniumbug me too, can repro
nwp
nwp
weird
18:52
@nwp It's locale. Use LANG=C sort
echo -e "z\nBuff modifier\nBuffs\nBuff time modifier" | sort
Buff modifier
Buffs
Buff time modifier
z
user1804599
This guy made a highly flammable pumpkin pie and called its ignition "pierotechnics".
nwp
nwp
@sehe oooh, that did the right thing
Still weird, but at least you have a contributing factor/mitigation
user1804599
😢
18:54
waves @jaggedSpire
@Zoidberg no way. Phew. "CRYING FACE". Ok.
user1804599
💩
@Borgleader :D hey bby
user1804599
@sehe I'm home alone soon. Wanna hook up?
Sure. My place though, wife's out and I can't leave the kids alone
I have Bolognese crisps
user1804599
19:01
Do you know what hooking up means?
@sehe d'awwww
"unsigned" is more of a suggestion, so they say. https://t.co/n0x8SlVsjH
Yeah let's throw type safety out of the window
> Dogs are great for holding nails because its impossible to hit their thumb
@Zoidberg Sure. Are back pedaling?
user1804599
I want to be beautiful.
@Borgleader jfc
19:16
Yo!
@Borgleader Look ma, I'm using unsigned cause I don't want negative values
@ReousaAsteron Lo!
Been a while :p
Yololol
Yololol
19:32
@Borgleader my implementation is quite short and simple, but it needs to call f and cache it in the dereference function which is const.
It works, but feels really wrong.
Actually, I think I know how to make a minimal feature request to make this written
Actually, I think I know how to make a minimal feature request to make this work
Ven
Ven
Just got home to find a letter from @EU_Commission with a formal written notification that detecting use of #adblockers (more)
wow.
user1804599
@Ven nice
Wait, I gotta look at concat. Might have something to help
user1804599
Facebook also detects adblockers with client side scripts. To inform you that the previews of your own ads may not be displayed correctly.
19:40
Oooh, sentinels
Someone should make an adblock, that downloads the ads, but just doesnt display them
effectively hiding if the ads are blocked or not
user1804599
Why
Possible for simple ads, impossible if they're using JS
user1804599
That's just an enormous waste of bandwidth
user1804599
19:46
IRTA "anussteam.io"
Like some people that i follow, get ad revenue
i dont want them to lose out on that revenue, but damned if I want to see the ads
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hah, I read about this in Wired, do you use it?
Just use AdNauseam
user1804599
OIC
Nah. I don't use AdBlock.
If your website annoys me with ads, I'm out
19:48
thats great tho, how are they allowed to break tools on your computer
List of websites robot visits: Stackoverflow.
user1804599
The fact that people dislike today's ads demonstrate how today's ads are a failure.
nwp
nwp
@Charlie people get paid for ads because the ads make you buy stuff and advertisers get a cut of the profit
no profit no ad revenue
user1804599
It's a miracle that they still exist.
user1804599
It's like selling rotten tomatoes and everybody buying them.
19:49
Like on tv, they cant confirm if you stay in the room to watch the ads
nwp
nwp
but they notice if sales go up
and if they don't ad prices drop
so the invisible hand of the market, is declaring that ads arent as valuable now
since people install bots/scripts that just block them outright
a better question might be, will the internet have lower quality without ads?
nwp
nwp
is std::copy(std::begin(a), std::end(a), std::ostream_iterator<int>(std::cout)); elegant or a hack?
user1804599
No, just not as cheap.
user1804599
There'll be more content that requires subscription.
19:52
@nwp It's pretty understandable for me
user1804599
More hyphenated sites.
@nwp fairly common thing, ive seen this a few times on SO
@Charlie Many content creators survive on ad money. Subscription systems don't quite scale down to the same level as ads. Those creators would need another job to pay the bills, which leaves them less time for creating content.
alot of negative fluff creators do the same tho, maybe they gains outweigh the losses?
You can make some cash with a small YouTube channel but if it's not larger than a certain threshold, no way you'll get a subscription
19:56
like vines and whatnot
patreon and donations? maybe your forced to actually contribute with those systems
user1804599
Communism
I think those could be used to sustain you as a creator, but it reduces the quality of the freely available content.
And I don't think you'll have luck with patreon without some previously established presence.
@nwp elegant. I usually hide it in something descriptively named
nwp
nwp
@Zoidberg I thought about that today. Easily copyable content seems to play well with communism.
feels like an evil hack to me, somehow copying and printing are not the same to me
I cannot use copy+osteam_iterator the way I though but thanks all
user1804599
20:09
@nwp for (int x : a) std::cout << x; is far more readable and requires fewer headers to be included
nwp
nwp
I'd add a & in there and agree
Ven
Ven
and a const maybe
user1804599
Why it is a single fucking word.
user1804599
The compiler will optimize out your reference.
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Mmh, Goulash.
Ven
Ven
20:11
@Zoidberg :P (we're just joking, chill)
nwp
nwp
one could add an overload to operator << to print out anything where begin(a) and end(a) compiles so one could do std::cout << a;
user1804599
@Xeo I had a goulash croquette today
user1804599
@nwp nonononodont
nwp
nwp
overengineering or horrible lookup issues?
user1804599
Way too generic for an overload of a third-party function
20:13
@nwp That's abuse and a hack
nwp
nwp
@nwp that one feels clever to me
I need to fine-tune my feelings
@milleniumbug That also means someone already did it
nwp
nwp
return; should compile inside main
only if main returns void
20:21
which it doesn't
nwp
nwp
the implicit return 0; should carry over to the return;
not that it matters
no, not really
user1804599
20:41
Ad blockers are not well known because nobody gets ads about them
nwp
nwp
they should
"if you find this ad annoying consider using AdBlocker"
and the ad should be as annoying as possible
ya, one old trick by local mom blocks ads
a guy tried to pay me to make code that figured out the client's area code, and generate a fake valid phone number to display. I refused
who would actually write that for some malware client?
user1804599
Amazon Mechanical Turk
How would you call a function that returns an entity that was not booked?
getNotBookedEntity sounds a mouthful
getUnbookedEntity apparently doesn't exist
user1804599
20:56
Does it also perform the booking?
Nope
It just returns the entity to be booked
user1804599
anyFreeEntity
user1804599
getSomeFreeEntity
user1804599
allocateEntityForBooking
I guess the first one is nice, thanks
nwp
nwp
20:58
how does one remove the second space in int main() { with clang-format?
seems like nobody wants that :(
eh
int main() { is correct
nwp
nwp
no it's not
What second space?
nwp
nwp
supposed to be int main(){
lol
Please don't
nwp
nwp
:(
user1804599
wtf that's super ugly
Hi again.
user1804599
hi lesswenn
21:11
That would be Leswen.
@StackedCrooked that's hilarious :D
Fuck, my tests pass without having to modify the code. That means that I have to write the documentation now.
nwp
nwp
maybe feature creep can save you
Thanks, but I've already got my hands full of template creep.
21:38
guys why the fuck when i get 2-4 downvote i'm warned about block ?
jUST FOR -2 / -4 points?
Because good questions never get -2/-4 votes out of the blue.
21:50
@Ramy the question?
@Puppy you've tried writing extensions for VS, right? am I doing it wrong or it's probably a lot more complicated than it should be?
it's fucking awful
why do I need to introduce / declare / do everything like 3 times and register it over and over to various places o_O
7 mins ago, by Puppy
it's fucking awful
try looking up doing shit with the context menu ;p
I think I'll just ditch VS and make an extension for a JetBrain product
22:00
wow the dog holding the nail in
:: staged ::
Ell
Ell
write an emacs plugin instead
that's p easy
it's brackets all the way down
speaking of emacs
I think I want to try it out
Meh. Audible books are not cheap. Red Rising for 34 USD is way too much.
@VermillionAzure It's a horrible OS
22:02
@набиячлэвэлиь obligatory kek
also UGH INSTRUMENTATION AMPLIFIERS ARE ANNOYING
@VermillionAzure Step one: reserve a spot to get carpal tunnel surgery done. Step two: suffer. Step three: thank god when emacs has induced carpal tunnel syndrome to the point that you can't type any more, so nobody can force you to use it ever again.
@JerryCoffin This is bullshit. Total FUD.
You can remap the keys FFS.
@VermillionAzure: Try it.
@wilx It sounds similar to AutoCAD and AutoLISP scripting
and that means productivity gains can be made. through time.
It's just that hearing "emacs extension" sounds like a lot of proprietary cruft and reminds me of node.js npm
22:17
@VermillionAzure There are certainly packages that are unmaintained or broken. But there is a nice pool of working ones. With recent Emacs you can just M-x package-list-packages and get new ones.
There are even people who abandoned VIM for Emacs+EVIL emulation of VIM. :)
@Morwenn look up song of the ancients piano
@wilx Sure you can. And if you have fifteen years (or so) to experiment with it, you might end up with something usable. But it doesn't seem likely, considering that they've been working on it for twice that already, and it hasn't even progressed to anything better than "unmitigated disaster".
@JerryCoffin That is utter bullshit.
I just want a nice IDE cries
"Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong." -Mordin
22:22
@VermillionAzure Not gonna happen, not in the nearest 10 years
@milleniumbug cries harder
@VermillionAzure ST3
@Borgleader new avatar, wow
indeed :)
@wilx Oh, how dearly I wish that were true!
22:23
@VermillionAzure Emacs is not an IDE.
@JerryCoffin What experience with Emacs do you have that anybody should consider your statements about it as more than a bigger dick envy? :)
wtf...
The experience I have with emacs is that basic shortcuts differ from basic shortcuts in most other editors, and that's enough for me not to want to use it .____.
@Morwenn My experience is that I miss standard Emacs shortcuts in usual IDEs like Eclipse, IntelliJ IDEA, Visual Studio, etc. :)
@wilx About the same as anybody trying to use an editor, I suppose: install. Try to use. After finding it crufty, ugly, and badly designed, uninstall. Get told I didn't do it right, give it enough time, etc., so repeat. Finally go to the trouble of using it exclusively for six months, and am still finding it more unbearable every day. As far as "envy" goes--it might have made sense 30 years ago when most people lacked the hardware to run it decently. That hasn't been true for decades though.
Yep, it differs from everything else (or everything else differs from it, but that's pretty much the same thing) and it makes everyone angry.
22:30
It's also an OS
@Morwenn This holds for VIM as well, even more so.
@набиячлэвэлиь BS memes.
@wilx Yeah, I don't use it either.
@wilx VIM is a cleaning product
Also too much religion and proselytism.
Vim, OTOH, is a lightweight text editor
especially light on the bandwidth
22:31
thanks to the cleansing power of lemon
You can, of course, make it into a full-fledged IDE like @sehe did
Not really. Just added YCM. Basically
Still better than VS
I like Surround.vim and Align.vim
Outside these, no real things I crave in Vim
I find that everything I need is available in Visual Studio, nicest IDE I've used for sure - nothing else I've used can match the intellisense (especially when using .NET languages, it's not as good for C++)
22:37
YCM > intellisense
mostly because it doesn't freeze and produces relevant results
YCM ⋙ intellisense
@набиячлэвэлиь yeah right
What about jucipp?
It uses Clang, so the autocomplete is fairly nice there
that's You see plusplus? Or CPP with juicy suck built right in?
I've found that YCM plays surprisingly nice with CMake due to compilation databases
22:40
it's supposed to be Juicy++
I've never had intellisense freeze
It's always been very quick for me
o.O You write C# then
It doesn't work amazingly with template shenanigans in C++ but it's excellent for everything else in my experience
> >especially when using .NET languages, it's not as good for C++
yeah it's just better for .NET (c# specifically), that's not to say it's bad for C++ though
22:42
.net is offtop
user1804599
@sehe is that the morphism composition operator?
@набиячлэвэлиь I haven't had a problem with Intellisense for years either (but I don't consider installation of VS complete until VA is installed).
user1804599
It is in PS and Haskell
U+22D9
Name: VERY MUCH GREATER-THAN
22:58
Index entries: VERY MUCH GREATER-THAN GREATER-THAN, VERY MUCH MUCH GREATER-THAN, VERY ... lol
I think they are going through it, "very much (>) greater than (>) greater than (>), vs, "very much (>) much (>) greater than (>)"
can't say they didnt try
very greater, wow
@sehe I love unicode stuff... nice to be able to remember the existence of stuff
kcharselect on linux and babelmap on windows
Time to get very mucher sleepest night.
@Morwenn 'night
23:04
Thanks :)
I wanted to try the VS <--> Linux thing, but i need the android tools apparently and those are 9gb
meh
23:52
wow: Unlock up to an additional 4GB of system RAM, Reddit discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/4g7ew6/unlock_up_to_an_additional_4gb_of_system_ram/ #programming #opengl
> More Ram exploits the video memory using OpenGL to unlock that memory so you can open a couple more tabs in Firefox
@sehe Fuck. I was just gonna post the same line.
@sehe cool!
Insanity

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