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00:00
@AndyProwl Surely.
first "oversight" came to mind and then I formed the verb from there
QED, I guess
:P
back when I thought I would write D instead of C++, and empty room - nothing was ever posted
go to bed or not go to bed
00:02
or wait, there actually was some activity
in Lounge!D, Feb 24 '13 at 23:44, by refp
room topic changed to Lounge!D: A room dedicated to users of the D programming language (no tags)
@AndyProwl have your bed go to you.
@FilipRoséen-refp good point
next up: sleep or not sleep
:(( Fail !
try turning that into !Fail
@AndyProwl are you trying to brag about your editing skills?
@FilipRoséen-refp surely not, my editing skills are very poor
00:13
user image
10
I like the drawings
BACK IN MY DAYS
GETTO F MYLWAN
the 20mb hello world person is adorable
I preferred when hardware was limited and shitty and everyone had to waste time on pointless nonsense just to run their crappy code
there's always microprocessors to scratch that sarcastic itch
00:17
You mean microcontrollers
yes
my bad
wtf is desk checking tho
You can't read code unless you print it don't you know
like you better check your desk before you wreck your desk
That's how we dun it in 1946
00:19
OOH
now that's ancient
you step through the program by hand
like on those annoying exam questions :p
I will forever laugh at horrible nerds who think that "omg 20mb hellowworld ram" shit matters
Paper doesn't have autocomplete, so it's worse in that regard.
@CatPlusPlus wat
00:22
@CatPlusPlus context matters. You can't code everything in a negligent way without ever worrying about memory and all that stuff.
Memory is not too important nowadays
You're making the same idiotic mistake
It's not "negligent"
@Jefffrey try computing without memory
Do registers count? I guess they do, eh.
@AndyProwl go to bed right the fuck now :)
Night all
00:25
@Jefffrey you'll still need memory to fire something up to do your computation I believe
@CatPlusPlus This is a big disadvantage if you only write "Hello world". The solution is to write more impressive programs instead :3
@milleniumbug :3
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10
ok I'm off to sleep
cya
oh shit I duplicated the :3
@AlexM. :3
much better
@sehe :D night
00:31
Night
agar.io time
Ven
Ven
@AlexM. :3
@milleniumbug :3
00:57
:3
01:08
> Faster, Faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death. ― Hunter S. Thompson
01:50
Hot mocha with milky biscuits for breakfast - because I drink coffee, but feel like hot chocolate & biscuits is easy.
Does anyone have some talk to recommend
I havent watched one in a while :(
@Jefffrey a talk titled "the last thing D needs" with Scott M. is quite good, and even though it may sound like the talk is about D - it is really about some of the weird quirks of C++, and Scott Meyers is a funny guy
@StackedCrooked yes, that one was goooooooooood
chandler is such a boss
02:05
@FilipRoséen-refp yes that was a very good C++ talk :)
 
1 hour later…
03:27
Hey guys
I'm looking for an unnoficial Youtube JavaScript or something like JSON library. (anything that I won't need an interpreter other than browser's one)
Do you guys know any?
wtf is unnoficial Youtube Javscript!?!?!
are you just saying random words?
oops
I think I forgot the most important word
API
no you forgot this isnt the javascript room =/
Come on. It's about programming and I'll use it in a C++ project. And it actually can be in any language, I'm just lazy to get an OAuth key.
03:58
Nice quote about design patterns:
user image
2
People spreading nonsense on /r/programming
@buttifulbuttefly As common as humans breathing on Earth.
04:55
> I wrote a website in Rust and lived to tell the tale (blog.viraptor.info)
> submitted 12 hours ago by steveklabnik1
05:07
@LucasHenrique Use rust
05:21
OH MY GAAAAADDDDD
Single cell sequencing examines the sequence information from individual cells with optimized next generation sequencing (NGS) technologies, providing a higher resolution of cellular differences and a better understanding of the function of an individual cell in the context of its microenvironment. == Background == A typical human cell consists of about 6 billion base pairs of DNA and 600 million bases of mRNA. With such huge amount of sequence, it is expensive and time-consuming to sequence by traditional Sanger sequencing. By using deep sequencing of DNA and RNA from single cell, cellul...
I have to do a workflow for this?
05:37
@Ell: yes, please send me an email.
@BenjaminGruenbaum: $200 for what?
@AndyProwl: Ok, it's my fault. Sorry SO community. I realized my mistake. Please forgive me.
 
2 hours later…
07:32
I don't get why people like tattoos
@VermillionAzure Some people lack the self confidence to realize they're idiots without a tatoo to remind them regularly.
@VermillionAzure I think they like to think tattoos make them unique, along other people.
I understand that but I would never trust myself to get a tattoo unless it was something that was timeless.
07:42
@JerryCoffin that's too harsh. In some nations, it is a tradition
@khajvah Yeah, like that's a good reason to get a tattoo
Because of cultural identity or something.
> tradition
> good reason
But even then I'd never get one
It would be if you were part of those nations
@khajvah There's a Maori tradition I believe for that
07:46
also, you don't shouldn't do everything for a reason.
...I think I've noticed my tendency to act like I don't know something to create small talk.
@khajvah There is cause and effect. I believe in such, whether we intend reasons or not.
irrelevant
08:06
any of you guys play League?
08:26
@FilipRoséen-refp Yup, watched a while ago. :)
@StackedCrooked Thanks
Unit testing ;) http://t.co/2cfeF8SAqF
wat
defuq
user562566
09:01
@Jefffrey nice. "Cops: We're here to save you! Dudes: We don't want to be saved. Cops: Have some lead."
nice one
 
1 hour later…
10:10
I got an AC
readyforsummer.jpg
bah
can't find any ppas with an updated version of boost except one that is broken.
Xeo
Xeo
@AlexM. s/summer/globalwarming/
stupid package managers even worse than Windows
Xeo
Xeo
@Puppy build it manually?
probably what I'm going to have to do
the funny thing is there's like 10 "boost latest" PPAs but none of them are actually the latest.
10:17
Latest in 2014.
Or they could mean they are latest
there's one "boost ppa" that actually was the latest
but it was broken.
@Xeo it's ok, as long as it's not too hot in my nerdcave
fapcave*
yes
I had to wake up early to go buy the AC :< now I'm hungry
waiting for a burger
So the solution to global warning is: "install more ACs?"
10:26
no pizza?
pizza is love, pizza is life
shit I have to leave the house today
What's that?
operator T() && { .. }
10:29
&& is rvalue-qualifier.
&& is "rvalue qualifiers for *this"
and operator T() is conversion operator
Xeo
Xeo
Wait, I got JUST the link for you!
208
A: What is "rvalue reference for *this"?

XeoFirst, "ref-qualifiers for *this" is a just a "marketing statement". The type of *this never changes, see the bottom of this post. It's way easier to understand it with this wording though. Next, the following code chooses the function to be called based on the ref-qualifier of the "implicit obj...

Yeah that
10:31
mmm food is here
I like how the fries from these guys look
@Puppy Is master branch of Wide supposed to compile?
ah I am hungry
Here comes Alex
@milleniumbug Probably.
but possibly not.
what are you seeing?
Making everyone extra hungry
10:33
the dessert is actually for dad as thanks for coming and installing my AC :<
Thank you alex
on the bright side I'll only gain the fat from the burger
it should build but some of the tests may fail as I am in the middle of rebuilding how the system they test works.
Like 80 compilation errors
@Jefffrey :D
10:33
@AlexM. Bottom of the frier I guess.
Not sure where are they coming from, I'll check
@Jefffrey doesn't work on me
What vaccine did you take?
@AlexM. yo. this isn't facebook or instagram, ya'know
@MarkGarcia no idea, but that's how they always look
10:34
@Jefffrey I dunno. Pictures of food don't ever work for me. Worst case they gross me out, but nothing else
Oh I see what your tactic is. You don't want to let him know it works so that he will lose interest in posting more images.
Yeah, let's do that.
Wait.
@AlexM. Yeah, let's do this!
@Jefffrey Nah. I also don't use ad blocker. Because, I don't even see the cruft.
@Puppy Some of them are from ParserTest's main.cpp, but some are from Semantic's UserDefinedType.cpp and others
@milleniumbug Oh you can ignore parsertest
and there's also CAPI which you also won't need and quite possibly doesn't compile.
dunno if I pushed the fixes for that to compile
but semantic should definitely compile
what errors are you seeing there?
oh, is that the thing about bad boost::variant accesses?
10:46
Bad variant access is one of the errors, yes
Some of them are "can't convert from std::nullptr_t to boost::optional<NotAPointer>", which I'm trying to fix by replacing nullptr to boost::none
@sehe but nobody understands me there :<
@milleniumbug I will push my local fixes for that shortly.
the newer version of Boost broke me a little bit
There are some "can't compare std::unique_ptr<Wide::Parse::Exception> with TestExpression&" where a little higher up there is "operator=(const Wide::Parse::Expression*, const TestExpression&)". I added .get() there.
easier to just skip parsetest
I need to clean it up and/or get rid of it in general
right I pushed my local stuff
oh wait apparently I did already clean it up mostly.
Ok, pulled and building now
10:57
are you involved in wide now?
For now I'm trying to get it to build
it being wide?
you're going to be rich
10:59
Outside of ParserTest's errors and some usual retarded VS warnings it's going smoothly
@MarkGarcia isn't that one of the first things presented when one tries to teach steering behaviors
@AlexM. Steering behaviors for what?
birds are often given as examples for flocking and collective steering behaviors and shit
I haven't attended to such a class AFAIK.
you won't anytime soon, it's mostly used in gamedev to program AIs
11:01
how do i gamedev
lolwut
I just heard something - you programmers are really inaccurate!
@AlexM. Nice site, going to bookmark it
there was a nice passage I've read once
I forgot where, I think it was in a book
lemme see if I can find it
11:04
@MarkGarcia duh. Even bike racers know this. So, birds will find this out in a jiffie :)
A conversion of a 64bit floating point to a 16 bit integer caused an overflow error. - Which crashed the rocket. Estimation of cost: 500 million euros.
and?
Nice war story
@khajvah yeah. doesn't even involve gear boxes
lol found the book, it's been so long
sometimes I'm amazing myself at how I manage to put almost unrelated crumbs of my past together and google for them step by step
@milleniumbug you may want to search for "Programming Game AI by Example" by Mat Buckland
11:07
@milleniumbug Catching round off errors in (differential) equations is quite a heavy topic to predict them. (I am actually learning an examn all about that). But a mistake by overflow error - so actually a bug in typing, impossible to guard against other than by having 3 independently programmed computers calculating (this is done by airbus/boeing).
you can find it on both amazon and google's first result as pdf
@AlexM. Found it, thanks
I want to learn game theory
Makes me wonder why people put so little stress (in practical programming such as on SO answers) on code verification and proof that it works. Most people say: "just test it". But testing can't prove the absence of bugs at all :/.
this was the passage
> During the late ’80s I remember watching a BBC Horizon documentary about state-of-the-art computer graphics and animation. There
was lots of exciting stuff covered in that program, but the thing I remember most vividly was an amazing demonstration of
the flocking behavior of birds. It was based on very simple rules, yet it looked so spontaneous and natural and was
mesmerizing to watch. The programmer who designed the behavior is named Craig Reynolds. He called the flocking birds “boids,”
and the simple rules the flocking behavior emerged from he called “steering behaviors.”
I haven't been able to find anything authoritative on this, so I'll keep considering this as the source of "steering behaviors"
11:09
@AlexM. lol SESE code, fail
@paul23 how can you prove that a piece of code works?
How do modern "highly important" groups do this? (IE: for a board computer of an aircraft, for nuclear installations). Things that just may not ever fail.
ask them
@paul23 Because most people do not program PATRIOT missile batteries or rockets. They program systems where failure simply doesn't matter that much and there are a million sources of failure similar to this, so finding them all and fixing them all simply isn't worth it.
@khajvah You tell me. I just notice as engineer that when I make an aircraft I find it utterly silly that it fails because of a human error. - I spent huge amount of time to prevent human error in productions by making important fail safe (one structure breaks but there's a backup that can hold it then) structs.
in case of overflow error, if you know that kind of problem may occur at a particular piece of code, you will eliminate it. If you are too uncareful when writing the code in the first place, you won't even know that you need to prove.
11:13
@Puppy Well but with more and more self-sustaining systems failures become more and more important (self driving cars for example).
@paul23 That is a completely different matter to software failsafes, which don't work that way at all.
@paul23 Then I would expect that the programmer programming the self-driving-car to be super-duper careful about this kind of matter.
however the programmer programming Stack Overflow's client does not need to give a shit and this is more like 99% of all programmers.
@Puppy I'm not saying that it shoudl work the same - I'm merely gasped at the sillyness of those errors and the consequences when I see examples even in modern day applications.
even hello world app is too complicated underneath to have a formal proof that everything will work
@Puppy Well yes, but at one point you wish to integrate your smartphone app with this self-driving car to make your smartphone decide where to go.
Ell
Ell
Not really
11:15
And you'll get more and more integration of all kind of things together.
no.
Ell
Ell
If the IO fails it won't work, otherwise there is nothing to go wrong
that would be a tremendously stupid thing to do.
you would be just duplicating the self-driving-car's logic, but doing a shittier job of it.
not that there aren't people who would be that stupid, but it would be particularly stupid.
@Ell if we are talking about formal proof, you need to have proof about underlying circuits, each processor instruction, etc...
this is not maths.
the simple fact is, there's too much code and not enough programmer
11:16
@khajvah Well I HAVE done that for a simple 8080 processor
Ell
Ell
I thought we were talking about computation?
@khajvah then its impossible to prove any programme will succeed
@paul23 Which is a thoroughly and completely different matter to doing it for a meaningful program.
@Ell that is my point
@Ell No, that's not true at all.
formal verification can prove the correctness of a program.
And like I said: I have a course now to prove stability of algorithms and to show that the algorithm works on a domain (and to find the domain as well as the truncation errors/roundof error).
Ell
Ell
11:18
@Puppy we're not talking about programs in general
it's just not something that's feasible for programs of reasonable size or complexity.
Ell
Ell
We are talking about proving that a programme will run correctly on a particular machine
And I know I'll get 3 follow up courses on this. I wonder if CS students don't also get this (and just forget it).
Ell
Ell
Which is impossible
Cosmic rays, someone trips on the power cord, etc.
well, in the literal case, the machine could always be destroyed by physical circumstances.
but what's much more meaningful is whether or not the program will cause failure.
11:19
@Ell Then you should make it fail safe: if part A fails you have a code working in part B that can take over up to a human can reset/perfom maintenance)
Ell
Ell
Which is why I think its an uninteresting point
user1804599
@Ell you need an indestructible non-decaying machine.
@paul23 The vast, vast majority of them work in a domain where it simply doesn't matter, and the rest of them don't have enough manpower or other resources to do it properly in every case.
Ell
Ell
Or a machine that computes via decaying :P
@paul23 That is not possible, realistically.
Ell
Ell
Hi
@Puppy I wonder if you can't design computers/programs to work like that
oh you can
They said it was impossible for mechanical engineering too in the past (talking about the 40s-60s here)
you'd just have to completely re-implement the program, which would be obscenely expensive.
and even then if one of them failed you'd have to assume that you could tell which one failed which is not always possible.
11:21
But in the last 30 years a lot of advancements have been made so we can actually make fail safe structures, where you know always there are broken parts but they never are "important" and will never cause catastrophic failure.
if you have two systems to calculate the velocity of a missile and they give different results, how would you know which one is correct?
In the 60s they also said we'd have hovercars all over
all you need to do is to write reasonable, for a particular issue, amount of tests.
@Puppy Then have 3 systems
that is no guarantee of success either.
11:22
@Puppy Or have a reporting/tests running that checks if something is working.
how would you check it?
@Puppy No guarantee, but a guarantee in the order of accuracy.
@Puppy No idea, that's somethign a computer designer should work on?
you'd need some external system guaranteed to give the right answer and in that case, why bother having the original system at all? just use that.
@paul23 You can't check it.
all you could reasonably infer is that you don't know the answer, but in many cases that's a critical failure that brings down the unit anyway.
if you're a rocket and you don't know how much to fire your thrusters, you're pretty screwed regardless of whether you know that or not.
Ven
Ven
well, it's interesting to be able to send "houston, we have a problem" before dying
@Puppy I still wonder: I see a programming bug similar to a bolting error in mechanics (you drill a hole in the wrong space making the total structure weaker instead of stronger). It is solved by if the thing breaks you fall back at a "drive home" plate which can do the job until someone looks at it. And I wonder if it isn't possible to design processors this way: if an overflow error occurs it falls down to another system that has not yet been stressed.
11:25
interesting but not useful
@paul23 No, it is not possible.
Ven
Ven
oh, it can be useful to dump some data with that
"lol, you just lost 20+ years worth of work because you typo'd relation as realtion"
lol typos not being caught at compile-time?
@Puppy Think out of the box? On hardware level.
user1804599
@Ven that's what you get for using terrible languages like Python and JavaScript.
Anyways back to study for me
11:26
@paul23 Hardware can't know if software is broken, in general.
Ven
Ven
@rightfold whereas perl(6) would have caught it instantly :)
all it can do is what the software tells it to do.
user1804599
Should've written it in Mill.
Ven
Ven
Assigning genders to babies is the entire reason the cis/trans system and its oppressiveness exist. It’s where that all begins.
user1804599
Also it gets caught with 100% branch coverage.
user1804599
11:28
So do that as well.
user1804599
@Ven I'm a proponent of not getting babies in the first place.
Ven
Ven
@rightfold but these tumors are so fun
user1804599
That way, you'll be sure they won't ever have to suffer from anything.
@Ven Anyways back to the original point: even thigns like CATIA (CAD/CAM software) requires very accurate tests.
(Course I'm following now is all about modelling PDE's and how to verify and find the errors).
11:52
@rightfold Coverage is a terrible metric.
Ell
Ell
@meet can I have your email address please?

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