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3:00 PM
@rubenvb well you have to push every change to make it rebuild
 
@BartekBanachewicz can't the online editor on the github website be used for this?
 
@rubenvb yes
but of course it's better to make reasonable commits
the online editor is mostly meant for small, one-file edits
 
@BartekBanachewicz They don't care.
And to be honest, I don't care either.
 
but yeah it'll work just fine
 
3:01 PM
Send in the commit police!
 
Quick question: What's the most idiomatic/preferred way to handle threading in C++? So far, I've seen std::async, std::thread and pthreads. (I'm just getting started with C++)
 
@CurtisMattoon std::future/std::promise
 
@fredoverflow lmao
 
@BartekBanachewicz bah, that's not at all important in my case here.
But the github hosting is definitely nice.
 
3:04 PM
@CurtisMattoon also std::packaged_task
 
cool, thanks. so the std::thread family is preferred over pthreads? (which are just POSIX?)
 
usually, Standard C++ is preferred over non-Standard
 
@CurtisMattoon yes.
But if you need cancellable threads, I believe you'd want Boost.Threads.
Which is almost std::thread, but then with some slight differences.
 
you can also check higher-level task-based libraries like PPL or TBB
which support cancellation and more
 
ahh ok cool. I've been steering away from boost while I'm learning (not sure if that's good or bad haha)
 
3:06 PM
steering away from boost in general is a bad idea, but if there is a standard counterpart, perhaps getting acquainted with the standard flavor is a good idea
doesn't mean you have to forget about the boost flavor, but I'd start with std
 
26
Q: In Vim, why doesn't my mouse work past the 220th column?

bhinesleyI tend to maximize a terminal to one screen, and vertically split several windows in Vim. Everything works fine for the first few windows on the left, but clicking past about the 220th column in the terminal doesn't work correctly. Any mouse clicks past column 220 seem to be wrapping around to co...

ಠ_ಠ
 
@CurtisMattoon In general you should avoid using raw threads if possible.
@Griwes
 
> To summarize, it was an xterm limitation that has been lifted.
@BartekBanachewicz
 
yeah, i'm currently cramming on C++ , so I'm shooting for idiomatic/practical without "just import X'
 
@CurtisMattoon the rule of thumb is "pick the highest-level stdlib part that you can and work with that"
 
Ell
3:09 PM
@BartekBanachewicz wut
am I blind? I don't see a
 
yes you don't C
 
Ell
idk why the mouse would stop working just in c mode either
that is odd indeed
 
dat flag
 
@AndyProwl On what?
 
cool, so std::thread, std::future and std::promise are the best bets for general n00b threading?
 
3:10 PM
"n00b threading"
 
No.
 
@CurtisMattoon you don't need std::thread if you use future/promise
 
@Griwes guy saying he himself is a prick idiot son of a bitch or something like that
 
std::thread is too low level, std::future is not feature complete, and std::promise is terribly misdesigned
@AndyProwl :D
 
7 mins ago, by Andy Prowl
@CurtisMattoon also std::packaged_task
 
3:12 PM
ahh, gotcha. i obviously still have some reading to do, just didn't wanna head down the wrong path. Thanks @AndyProwl, I'll check into that too!
 
@BartekBanachewicz std::future does not magically thread.
 
@CurtisMattoon btw these are low-level primitives. If you play with them, you're gonna end up needing std::mutex, std::shared_mutex, std::unique_lock, std::lock_guard, and the like. That's quite error-prone. Higher-level libraries like PPL or TBB may help you hide much of the low-level complexity.
 
@Griwes lol
 
@CurtisMattoon Just remember that std::async(std::launch::async, whatever); is synchronous.
 
oh and std::condition_variable
 
3:13 PM
@Griwes lol²
 
and mutex
and lock_guard
 
wtf man.
 
and unique_lock
 
35 secs ago, by Andy Prowl
@CurtisMattoon btw these are low-level primitives. If you play with them, you're gonna end up needing std::mutex, std::shared_mutex, std::unique_lock, std::lock_guard, and the like. That's quite error-prone. Higher-level libraries like PPL or TBB may help you hide much of the low-level complexity.
 
C++ is Very Well Designed /cc @BartekBanachewicz see, I'm hardly praising this language
 
3:13 PM
@Griwes LOW LEVEL
 
@AndyProwl I failed at reading. Sorry :P
 
std::thread is great for a simple run this across a bunch of threads thing.
 
@rubenvb that's what parallel_for is for
 
well almost all
I do that
 
3:14 PM
there's nothing simple in raw threads
 
y
 
js web workers are simple but they limit context sharing
and for a good reason ofc
 
I don't think it's a bad idea to learn the basic primitives and play around with them if you're new to it. You just have to know what's waiting for you and be aware that there are higher-level building blocks. Those are not standard yet, though
 
@Griwes I see a bit of a contrast with "Allows me to write Perfect Code (tm)"
 
so I'm trying to make a basic network scanner that exec's ping and reports back a status, then stores that in some sort of "database".. something to give me a little time with threads, file IO, and data structures rather than printing pascal's triangle and stuff.
 
3:15 PM
eh
 
@CurtisMattoon maybe you'll want to check boost.asio too then? just shooting
 
@CurtisMattoon Forget threads.
Big XY problem.
Just use asio.
 
user1804599
winzip
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes honestly I don't think he's playing with threads to realize that, more like the opposite
he needs something concrete to do to play around with threads and stuff
that's what I understood at least
 
@BartekBanachewicz I can mold C++ quite easily to force it into what I want. Except when I can't and keep raging about that. But other than those stupid moments, or the misfeatures that force me to basically reimplement the world, it's usable-ish.
 
3:17 PM
^ yeah, that haha
 
template<typename Variant>
    struct variant_descriptor {
        P &process;
        Variant &variant;
        variant_descriptor(P &p, Variant &v) : process(p), variant(v) {}
        template<typename Item>
        void operator()() {
            inspect(process.child(class_info<Item>().name, "multigroup"), process.variant<Item>(variant));
        }
    };
cruel lack of lambda :s
 
Ell
> need entropy
> need entropy
> need entropy
I guess qingy-keygen is waiting for /dev/random
 
@Mr.kbok I don’t bother with a constructor for those things.
 
aggregate?
 
3:20 PM
@AndyProwl yeah
 
@Ell Use the box.
 
Xeo
aggregate init is beautiful
 
Ell
The box?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Did you reinvent packaged task?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes file a bug fuck report!
 
3:21 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes it's using packaged_task internally
 
Wait, you reinvented std::async instead.
 
this might be closer
 
(nonbroken, granted)
 
yeah, it's async without blocking future
btw I think fuck reports are called "sending a frown" nowadays
 
@LucDanton but reference
 
3:26 PM
@BartekBanachewicz is parallel_for already standardized/implemented?
 
@rubenvb no idea
 
@Mr.kbok only thing I'm wondering if it wouldn't be worth it to use pointers instead of references, to give that thing full value semantics
 
@Mr.kbok ?
 
I'm not interested in value semantics, but I like the non-null guarantee
 
@AndyProwl I do use a constructor (taking references) when I have pointer members, lol.
 
3:28 PM
@LucDanton how do you initialize this?
 
@LucDanton yeah, that makes sense
 
Hmm, Jekyll seems like it's going to be too technical, aka I'll need to stay fully involved.
 
@Mr.kbok As usual.
 
brb
 
3:29 PM
unless you're working on MSVC, not sure if MSVC supports that
 
@rubenvb you edit text and html comes out
what's technical in this?
 
oh, lol
it does
 
@BartekBanachewicz how do images fit in?
 
@rubenvb how about markdown
 
How does the layout of such an image fit in?
 
3:30 PM
I know there are some cases where it doesn't work but here it's fine. Thanks @LucDanton
 
@AndyProwl MSVC only supports FUCK YOU
 
lol
 
@rubenvb are we changing requirements now
 
did you send them a frown
they value that a lot
a developer cries every time they get one
 
@BartekBanachewicz No, we're not (see point c):
42 mins ago, by rubenvb
@BartekBanachewicz It needs to be a) pretty b) simple c) content needs to be edited in a "Word"-like manner, including graphics and links, d) needs to work on mobile, e) be fancy (facebook stream, google maps view of address). Oh, and as free as possible, including hosting.
 
3:31 PM
@Mr.kbok That actually ties up nicely with our previous discussion on aggregate rules: if you add a base, then you need a constructor to produce values of the type since references are not default constructible.
 
(guy at CppCon said they do get notified when frowns arrive and have to acknowledge them)
 
@rubenvb You'd need a desktop or web editor that has such a GUI I guess
but results will be shitty most probably
 
@BartekBanachewicz right.
 
WYSIWYG for responsive web pages is a huge nonono
 
Indeed.
Yet WP manages it just fine. (from a non-web-designer point of view)
 
3:32 PM
> just fine
 
WYSIWAT
 
WYSIWTF
 
@rubenvb there are about a million ways to layout text and images
 
@BartekBanachewicz lol
 
@BartekBanachewicz I only need what WP offers currently.
 
3:33 PM
Markdown has no options to layout images.
 
@AndyProwl Awesome, thanks! I do want to play with mutexes a bit (on my study list too), but I'll check in on those libs as well.
 
It just puts them there.
 
66
A: Markdown and image alignment

Greg HewgillYou can embed HTML in Markdown, so you can do something like this: <img style="float: right;" src="whatever.jpg"> Continue markdown text...

 
Which is basic: centred, right aligned, left aligned, ...
 
@Mr.kbok In any case reference members are only special in that they’re considered non-assignable (even though they are, syntactically speaking). Same as if you’d be using a non-defaultable, non-assignable type.
 
3:34 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Aaaand technical.
 
@CurtisMattoon good luck ;)
 
@BartekBanachewicz lol, right.
 
Which goes against point b.
 
4 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
@rubenvb you edit text and html comes out
 
@rubenvb well okay in this case my answer is you can't do that with a clickable editor to achieve non shitty results, at least I don't know one
 
3:35 PM
@rubenvb You might find a Markdown editor that can do this stuff.
 
if you are fine with shitty results AND all possible security implications then sure
also what robot said
 
Warning: it won't exist.
 
lol
 
Markdown editors are crap across the board, even when they're minimally featured.
 
3:36 PM
Right, as 20% of Web 2.0 runs on WP, I'll stick with that for now.
 
@JohanLarsson no
@rubenvb Sure, contribute to make the web a crappier place.
I'd like to thank you in the name of all botnet owners
 
Lol.
 
You can pick up your "I'm shit at web development" badge outside.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I never said I was any good.
 
then wear it proudly
 
3:38 PM
Might I point out that you seem unable to produce a viable alternative given the rather basic constraints.
 
Every WYSIWYG web editor was/is more or less crap
Yes, I'm unable to produce an alternative because the industry can't produce one.
 
OK, fair enough, but then don't bash me for using the only viable option.
Please.
 
It's not viable if you want to deliver quality solutions.
 
lol
@BartekBanachewicz Who cares?
 
Unless you state upfront "this is a shitty solution but it's all we have" and the client accepts it.
 
3:40 PM
There is no client.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I do. I don't want to ship crap.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Who cares?
 
@rubenvb Who's creating your requirements
 
Ell
I can't wait for vulkan & amd & open source drivers
 
It's my gf's vet practice website.
 
3:40 PM
He gave precise requirements.
 
Ell
I'll finally be able to get a framebuffer :3
 
Besides
aren't there better CMS than WP while we're at it
 
As in: contact info, relevant vet info, etc. That's it.
 
There's no quality solution for them, so harassing him about it is silly.
 
I'd google for "alternatives to wordpress" and pick any because wordpress is literally the worst choice
 
3:41 PM
@BartekBanachewicz There undoubtedly are. Care to suggest one?
 
see above
 
@BartekBanachewicz I did. It's terrible.
 
lol
"Here's my superior alternative: google for superior alternatives"
 
And relatively expensive...
I mean, if some service fails to provide something, but it's free, I'm alright with it.
 
like basic security
lel
 
3:42 PM
@BartekBanachewicz That wasn't suggesting one--at most, it was suggesting route that might lead to one. I've been around long enough, however, to know that you're just plain wrong on one point: there really are worse possibilities out there than WP (quite a few of them, AAMOF).
 
eh, whatever
 
So I'm outta here for now.
 
thank god I don't have to do this crap for a living because I'd shoot myself in a week
 
If you come up with anything, let me know.
 
adding more wordpress sites to the internet is just unethical
 
3:43 PM
I am interested.
lol
ciao fellas
 
@JerryCoffin I don't wanna know
Heck I don't do webdev but in the webdev world I know people actually create websites for people
and not just pop up wordpress and call it a day
maybe it's time to write a CMS that's not shit actually
 
@BartekBanachewicz Sure--and depending on what sorts of things they're doing, they might produce something quite a bit better than using WP would have. Then again, I've also seen quite a few that were pretty clear-cut cases of fleecing clients, who'd have been a lot better off if they had just done a WP-based site.
 
@BartekBanachewicz It's an area that's certainly open to (a lot of) improvement. At the same time, you need to realize that there are trade-offs involved, so almost any improvement you make is almost certain to be seen by some as having been seriously detrimental instead.
 
I'd start by "it actually builds the page into a static snapshot that can be delivered to CDN"
so essentially it might just be a web based editor
 
3:49 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Even more Fragile
 
I wish my friends would stop inviting me to eat Asian food. I don't get why they're so crazy about it. Whenever they see a restaurant with Asian food on the street, they're all like "we should eat here".
 
Because it's cheap
 
No, it's not.
 
Is it not?
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes which kind of asian food?
 
3:51 PM
It's just as expensive as other food here.
 
Interesting
 
Ell
chinese? japanese?
 
Maybe asian craze idk
 
That's my theory.
And I realised how funny it is to say "I like that Berlin is very international" when you go to all the Asian-focused places all the time.
 
I need to expand it with ST and make a blog post out of it
 
3:54 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes bellin is vely intelnational!
 
@Ell Doesn't matter.
 
Hong Kong is very international also
Lots of Asian food
 
It's not just food, actually.
 
wow, lucky
 
@JerryCoffin That album is soooo good.
 
3:55 PM
Asian festival thingy? "Let's go!"
 
@GregorMcGregor The US may be dominated by corporate interests, but we haven't officially admitted to having been bought out by Intel yet.
 
Everything Asian they're all over :/
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes "International" means anything that's not the West.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Probably culture craze then. Like Amerrrrrica back in the days.
 
3:57 PM
@GregorMcGregor Chapeau bas
 
@EtiennedeMartel Multiculturalism is all about experiencing the one culture you like.
 
Ell
"International" means anything not in this nation
 
@JerryCoffin I'm not a big fan, honestly. I liked Fragile, Close to the Edge and 90125, but that's pretty much it.
 
I wish there was this_type for all types
 
4:09 PM
Also std::robert_traits
 
@GregorMcGregor hahaha
 
@jaggedSpire There's a special place for you and your catfaces.
 
I need to start writing those C++ courses
any starting point I could get inspired from?
 
user1804599
@Mr.kbok which ones?
 
4:22 PM
The ones I'll write ?!?!
what kind of question is that
 
about what and for what audience?
 
about not being a retard and for retards
 
@AndyProwl Introductory C++ course for finance students, 4th year of a master's degree
 
@Mr.kbok do these students know how to program already?
 
The students already know VBA but that's kind of it. They have a very strong maths background
 
4:27 PM
ok, so they like, know what a verbibol is
 
I have to prepare them for the next course which is numeric algorithms
yeah
 
how long are the courses? what material do you plan to cover?
 
They probably have a good level overall, but not a lot of exposure to programming
 
because C++ adds a lot of domain-unrelated complexity to the game
 
I have 8 lessons of 3 hours each in front of the machines
 
4:28 PM
Haha, I just wasted 30 minutes because I'm a moron :D
 
8 lessons of 3 hours sounds like too few to me
 
user1804599
@Mr.kbok ok
 
you know how we're mocking those "learn C++ in 21 days" books... and this is not even two weeks
 
I just need to teach them enough c++ to get them rolling on the numeric course
 
yeah, but what will they do when they make a mistake and the compiler screams at them because they've tried to bind a prvalue to an lvalue reference, or because some template instantiation failed while calling a standard algorithm with a wrong argument, etc.
 
4:30 PM
lol
they're probably going to add values in vectors
don't set the bar too high
 
yeah, but add a find vs find_if to the mix and that's enough to get them wtf'ing
/cc @thecoshman
 
but we won't use those
 
no standard algorithms?
 
find will be for(size_t i = 0; i < vec.size()
 
4:32 PM
@AndyProwl you've got to cut corners.
 
I thought what might be relevant to them would be the stuff in numerics, standard algorithms, the distributions etc.
complex numbers, etc.
 
We don't ever use standard algorithms because there's more performant, more specialized libraries out there
 
Learning to write loops/algorithms to begin with is very relevant. Pointing to the standard stuff at the end might be, too.
 
like NAG
 
what are the requirements of the numeric course? is that in C++ too?
 
4:33 PM
I learnt this week that C++ complex numbers had no explicit conversion to bool .
 
@AndyProwl yes
@AndyProwl I don't know yet, I have to call the prof who's giving this course
 
@Morwenn sorta makes sense to me
@Mr.kbok okay, maybe that's also important information to decide how to structure your classes
the less that course requires, the more you can afford to say about each topic
 
user1804599
@Mr.kbok getting a compiler (i.e. clang or GCC) to compile hello world seems like a good start
 
@AndyProwl sure
 
and the more time the students have to digest those bits
 
4:35 PM
@AndyProwl I guess I would have expected 0+0i to convert to false in a condition.
 
@AndyProwl you mean megabytes
 
@Mr.kbok lol right
 
@elyse yeah, I need to ask admin for what's the setup there, also other profs
I wouldn't want to teach them something completely different than the others
 
user1804599
When they get hello world working, I think it's good to continue with explaining ADL and two-phase lookup.
 
l:
 
4:37 PM
@elyse yeah, gotta explain how that operator<< works
 
sure, and the interaction between template type deduction and overload resolution
 
user1804599
@Mr.kbok :^)
 
basically give them a copy of Clauses 9-14 and they're good to go
 
just dump the standard on them
"learn this by tomorrow"
 
@AndyProwl what's this about?
I suspect mockery
 
4:38 PM
@thecoshman No, more like, serious proof of how wtf-y C++ errors are
 
user1804599
And the typical implementation of dynamic_cast and layout of classes with virtual and non-virtual bases.
 
(I've also done that mistake quite a few times and wondered wtf is going on)
 
@AndyProwl oh right
git
 
no but that's important
@thecoshman mkdir
 
user1804599
4:52 PM
mkgit
 
alias mkgit="git clone https://github.com/git/git.git && cd git && make"
 
I'm sad: my unrolled double insertion sort beats an unrolled regular insertion sort, but it does not work that well when rolled :(
 
Pat pat.
There, there.
 

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