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Xeo
8:00 PM
Since pcpartpicker doesn't seem to list win8 non-OEM
which is... weird
oh wait, there it is
 
Do you guys like merge commits?
 
user1804599
Yes.
 
Anyone outside of Cat and rightfold? :(
 
Xeo
Hm, I wonder how I got under 1k with that build last time... prolly different mainboard and no internal HDD
 
8:05 PM
They're useful if you want to preserve branch history in the graph
Fast forward destroys that
 
@FredOverflow I wouldn't say 10 years, I would say 10 years to master. Basic proficiency can be picked up in as little as a week depending on the language.
 
@FredOverflow excellent. I don't have to round down, right?
 
@Jefffrey: i think he's talking about derived classes, and corresponding sub-objects of the total most derived object to-be. essentially, in my interpretation he's saying that the calls are considered bad practice in C++ because they're not unsafe as in Java or C#. — Cheers and hth. - Alf 2 mins ago
 
Make sure to round up.
 
erm wat
 
8:09 PM
0.000005 is the same as 0.5 which is the same as 1 which is the same as 10.
 
> Error: A problem has occurred.
 
Virtual calls in the ctor plainly do not work
 
why?
 
Because vtable is set for the base class still
 
because derived object has not yet been created
 
8:10 PM
Derived classes get constructed later
 
@Mgetz You can't learn Scala in a week.
 
I've learned Scala in about 2h
 
@FredOverflow eh... I would say you can't learn functional programming in a week, but if you're already familiar it shouldn't be too hard
 
I've learned it in ... I haven't learned it.
 
@CatPlusPlus Including higher-kinded types and path-dependent types?
 
8:12 PM
No, the fuck would I need those for, I was doing one thing in it
 
I mean, as long as you've learned Option that counts, right?
 
If I wanted I'd look it up
Learning languages is not difficult
Paradigm shifts are
 
I still don't understand path-dependent types to this day, and I have used the language for two years.
 
Idioms you can pick up on the go
Do you need path-dependent types for anything
 
8:13 PM
I wouldn't know, because I don't understand them.
 
Would you notice if the language didn't have them? No
So are they required to consider language as 'learned'? no
 
@FredOverflow There are many C++ developers who avoid using templates because they don't understand them, ditto generics in C#/Java/etc.
 
You don't need to know 100% of the fucking thing
 
69
Q: What is meant by Scala's path-dependent types?

oxbow_lakesI've heard that Scala has path-dependent types. It's something to do with inner-classes but what does this actually mean and why do I care?

Nope, still no clue what they are.
 
8:14 PM
@CatPlusPlus But it takes 10 years to know 99% of the fucking thing. That's all I'm saying.
 
No, it takes few days tops to know 95% of the thing
Then you just need to learn idioms
 
Would you say the same thing about C++?
 
Because Scala plays in the same complexity ballpark as C++.
 
Not really
 
8:15 PM
Is Scala the language that takes even longer than C++ to compile?
 
@FredOverflow Scala is a bit overly complex, it's a language designers wet dream that just confuses the rest of us
 
@Rapptz Let's just say the sole reason I bought a quadcore is Scala.
 
Scala semantics are fairly simple, stupid implicit conversions notwithstanding
 
personally I'm an F#/Haskell fan
 
I don't like Scala because it's weird and why would I ever use that thing, but still
 
8:17 PM
@CatPlusPlus Why do you think Scala's implicit conversions are stupid?
 
I was annoyed by the swapping of () and [] in Scala. But other than that it wasn't bad
 
Because implicit conversions are stupid
 
Implicit conversions are the basis for "pimp my library".
 
@Borgleader Oh yeah, of course.
 
Extension methods are less powerful than implicit conversions.
 
8:18 PM
Yeah that puts them in the same basket as everything in Ruby, i.e. retarded
 
user3010322
At work, I'm afraid to click links. :c
 
No, you know, you're right, Scala is nearly as complex as C++
Implicit conversions is why
 
got the coke
oh god, pizza and coke
the only drugs that work on me
 
Don't snort it all at once
 
lol
 
8:20 PM
@AlexM. pugsnotdrugs amirite @Jefffrey
 
lol
ask puppy
 
Wow dude.
That pizza must be freezing by now
 
Microwave it and it's as good as new
:v
 
In your dreams
 
@CatPlusPlus Also implicit parameters and implicit vals ;)
 
8:22 PM
I sometimes microwave old pizza
I really don't mind that
 
@FredOverflow Also the fact that you can declare the same class in about 3 different ways =/
 
I must have really low standards
 
Yeah you do.
 
Pizza is junk food anyway
 
I prefer old pizza cold to microwaved
 
8:23 PM
@CatPlusPlus You're junk food.
 
^ Scala's type system explained
I forgot about structural types.
Oh, and existential types.
 
Existentials are easy
And really structurals too
 
user3010322
@CatPlusPlus Just leaving it in the oven is p. okay too.
 
Oven is more effort
You gotta heat it up, it doesn't turn itself off
 
user3010322
Well, you have to take out the pizza. If you forget to turn it off.... uh.
 
8:26 PM
Well, I guess mine might here, should get a manual and check
 
user3010322
Well, if you don't mind your place getting toasty.~
 
why is there no programmable oven.
cook(temperature, time);.
 
Newer electric ones have stop timers
 
how is this not a feature present since like, 1980.
 
user3010322
They all have timers which make a bell ring
 
user3010322
8:27 PM
didn't they think that making it stop the oven might be beneficial too?
 
Yeah but not all of them have stop, I don't think
But that could be me missing something
 
user3010322
Stop as in, turn off the oven?
 
Nobody ever leaves the goddamn manual around
Yes
 
user3010322
I mean, I'm pretty sure every oven should be able to get turned off.
 
user3010322
Unless it's like an actual brick-fire oven.
 
8:28 PM
washing machines can do that shit for ages.
 
@Puppy We had such a programmable oven in the 90s. It was wonderful. No more burnt Pizza!
 
user3010322
Could be that it's more energy efficient to leave it on.
 
user3010322
But still, it's strange. I've never had an auto-off oven.
 
German defense is more wobbly than a jelly on a whacker plate.
 
fuckshitballs I'm tired.
 
8:30 PM
Jesus my bank charged me more for SMS notifications than the debit card
 
at least my operation got delayed until 11.30
damn I'm gonna be glad when that's over.
 
lobotomy?
 
@ThePhD Mine stops.
 
user3010322
Lucky. :c
 
@SamDeHaan robotomy
 
8:33 PM
I thought it was the only way really.
 
@Xeo Also, did I mention there are some cases where you have to remove destructors? Boy, that shit's annoying.
 
Xeo
wut
 
super, super annoying.
 
user3010322
@Rapptz Thank you Rapptz-kuuuun. <3 <3
 
8:35 PM
I don't know what Catch or you did
but it takes 1 GB of RAM to compile tests
 
lol
 
might revert
 
Seems like C++
 
it's Catch
impressive :v
 
@Xeo It's an exception object allocation. You need to destruct it if the exception expression evaluation throws (yay) but not if it succeeds, since then you'd be destructing the exception you've just thrown.
 
Xeo
8:40 PM
uuh, sure
 
user3010322
@Rapptz 1 GB?
 
user3010322
That's.... pretty gnarly. o.0
 
Are the SIMD types any good?
 
user3010322
I only added some tests for overload resolution.
 
yeah on my machine it takes 700 MB - 1 GB
I checked out an older commit and it was still 700 MB - 1 GB
so iunno
it's probably Catch
 
user3010322
8:41 PM
Catch is pretty huge.
 
user3010322
Or at least, instantiations of catch tests are huge.
 
user3010322
And we have like... 30 tests.
 
> RyuJIT only works on 64-bit editions of Windows 8.1 or Windows Server 2012 R2.
Fucking Microsoft and their goddamn forced OS pushing
 
:)
prolly not god enough to upgrade to win 8
 
user3010322
I have Windows 8, not Windows 8.1
 
user3010322
8:43 PM
I've been meaning to update but I've never done it.
 
I have win 8 but not installed
 
I've got win8 on my personal laptop
it's tolerable?
 
user3010322
Tolerable, maybe.
 
be careful, they can hear you
 
@SamDeHaan I like it... but I'm crazy, 8.1 makes it more useful for the people still chained to a start menu
 
8:45 PM
@Mgetz touchscreen?
 
@SamDeHaan nope
 
Hmm. Well, you're the exception.
Once you learn the keyboard shortcuts it's definitely usable
and the guts are definitely faster than win7
but the metro UI is pretty widely disliked.
 
user3010322
I just hate the fact I need to learn an additional keyboard shortcut
 
user3010322
to search the "Settings" of the computer (Control Panel etc.)
 
user3010322
Rather than the combined-form they used in Windows 7
 
user3010322
8:48 PM
Pretty big regression to me, even if it is just a different keyboard shortcut / 1-2 more keyboard presses per search.
 
PROTIP: Turn data into big data by encoding it as XML.
4
 
user3010322
/k for cmd.exe isn't running the second bit properly. Hm.
 
Jun 13 '12 at 15:37, by jozefg
Question for C++ers at large? For small algorithmic pieces of code, how much do you rely on OOP versus just plain old imperative code?
Below there's an argument between robot playing stupid and ruben, which is not for the light hearted. But that's a very sad question.
 
Hi all
 
@Jefffrey No the really sad part is being reminded that Domagoj was still around then :(
 
8:53 PM
@rightfold how many rep points did you have when you deleted the "old" account?
 
user1804599
22k
 
silly zoid
@Borgleader Is he dead??
 
@Jefffrey It's Robot's way of telling people they're saying stupid shit
 
@Jefffrey No, I don't think so. But he suddenly quit SO one day :( He was a really nice guy.
 
He came back and quit again since then
 
8:56 PM
All nice guys quit sooner or later. Only terrible people remain.
 
I was referring to the second time, I don't think I was on SO the first time.
 
user3010322
FFS
 
user3010322
Something about overloaded doesn't compile with the new VC++.
 
user3010322
WEll, I guess I have more bug reports to figure out...
 
Oh hey, VC++ not working correctly, that's a new one.
 
8:58 PM
@ThePhD bug finder extraordinaire
 
user3010322
THe new one compiled sol completely before
 
user3010322
I was going to test nonius and ogonek next.
 
user3010322
But now I'm back to developing tiny repro for overloading.
 
never before have I used so many shared_ptrs.
 
You might not want to test ogonek. I'm pretty sure that would be enough to send the compiler to the loony bin permanently.
annnnd back to reading
 
9:01 PM
what am I supposed to know about programming?
 
everything
 
That Ruby sucks
 
user3010322
@Borgleader The thing is, now is the ripe season to get bugs pushed for VS 14 development.
 
user3010322
If I can push all the bugs that break sol, ogonek, and nonius into the development cycle now...
 
they should already be filed on Connect.
 
9:03 PM
@ThePhD I know. Do your thing :) I definitely won't stop you from making VS better.
 
user3010322
@Puppy I'm fighting the latest bugs against the most recent compiler. It actually does a pretty decent job on basic code.
 
user3010322
I tried to fight to get Expression SFINAE in there, but STL already forced their hand to do as much as possible and they're not going to budge much further on it.
 
user3010322
On the bright side, it handles the small amount of expression SFINAE sol does already just fine.
 
woops
 
user3010322
So it's a case-by-case thing.
 
9:05 PM
I accidentally implemented "Is trivially destructible" as "is trivially copy constructible".
5
 
The keys are like next to each other
 
they're right next to each other in the CXXRecordDecl autocomplete list and in implementation
 
Ahaha Youtube
> Introducing Creator Studio
Thanks for changing the UI again
 
@FrankConijn Not this. SO is more like a giant, collaborative FAQ. Though many people keep trying to faq that up -.- — Lightness Races in Orbit 48 secs ago
 
9:15 PM
Welp I guess I won't be testing out YT's streaming service, because they require G+ relink
I'm just waiting until they link everything without asking anyone and that'll be that
 
@CatPlusPlus pushing that again are they?
 
You can apparently create new channels now, too, but I can guess what's required!
 
G+
 
I'm not trying, I might not be able to cancel out of that stupid prompt again
 
yaaay, it compileth.
now let us run the tests and observe it faileth.
 
9:21 PM
"it is expensive to have a list as a member variable when the list is expected to be empty most of the time." This is not the case. The default constructor of std::list does no dynamic allocations in gcc and Microsoft C++ standard library. — milleniumbug 1 min ago
 
I already filed all the bugs I wanted to file for MSVC.
I'm not paid to do QA for Microsoft.
Big giant fuck off.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Of course not
You pay to do QA for Microsoft
 
I already decided that ogonek won't ever have official VS support and nonius won't have any further forward support.
 
I don't officially support VS in anything I have
 
If you use that thing, tough. Grow some balls and port your code to a compiler.
 
9:27 PM
2014 and not supporting C++98 fully is pretty sad (disregarding export)
tbh
 
I only support Windows in my Windows apps, though I also try to be portable as a matter of course (hi Boost, stdlib and mingw)
 
Can you be portable if you write libraries and support MSVC?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes sure, but you screw your self over
 
@Rapptz What features, specifically, are you missing from C++98?
 
9:35 PM
two phase lookup
it screwed @ThePhD pretty badly
 
Thats a feature? I thought it was an implementation detail =/
eh i guess its a case of tomato tomato
 
no.
it is a part of the Standard.
 
ah, TIL
 
user1804599
I want three-phase lookup.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes not watching the game?
 
9:42 PM
Yeah, but I was looking up the overtime rules and it takes a while to load.
Nice free kick.
 
user3010322
MSVC is the worst compiler to develop libraries on.
 
user3010322
I wish I had chosen OpenGL to start with, then I wouldn't be so ham-stringed by lack of DirectX.
 
user3010322
After this raytracer is finished and I figure out the triangle problem, though...
 
user3010322
It's all OpenGl + FreeType + OpenAL from here.
 
@ThePhD Nah, you'd just be talking about how OGL sucks relative to DX.
 
Xeo
9:48 PM
@JohanLarsson what game?
 
user3010322
@Puppy It'd suck, certainly, but at least I could leave VC++ land.
 
Xeo
oh right, today's Germany vs someone in the world cup
meh
 
@Xeo Germany - Algeria
 
Xeo
can't have been a good game, I didn't hear any honking or loud cheering
 
It's good.
It just happened that Germany didn't score.
There will be 30 more minutes.
 
9:57 PM
it is a good game actually
 
hmm
 
Eh
 
ET just started. extremely well matched teams. coulter must be livid
 
I accidentally implemented trivial destructibility as "Has a user-defined destructor || each member is trivially destructible".
 
9:57 PM
theres no honking but a lot of whistling
 
Xeo
@Puppy What do you actually implement not-totally-wrong first try?
 
Xeo
Or in this case, second try?
 
user1804599
@JohanLarsson yay for Germany.
 
yeah nice goal
 
9:59 PM
not so much yay. guttingn they didnt get that 2mins ago
 
user1804599
Germany–Netherlands would be a great final.
 
rooting for algeria tbh, but only marginally
 
germany 1?
 
user1804599
1–0
 
@Xeo Actually, oddly enough, EH and a few other things like RTTI.
 
9:59 PM
I'm rooting for Algeria in a bar in Germany.
 
yes jefffrey in the fffootball
 

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