« first day (1250 days earlier)      last day (3704 days later) » 

8:00 PM
> Killer_01000 is gay.
Nice description.
 
why you heff to be mad tho
 
I think it's okay to get mad at video games.
If you can be happy at video games, why can't you be mad?
 
Xeo
I think it's unproductive
 
You're playnig a game.
 
@Rapptz Why so serious?
 
8:03 PM
What does 'unproductive' mean there?
 
iunno
 
It means it's not productive
 
i find myself constantly wishing for a non-member function call operator
:(
 
In the productive sense of the word.
 
Good job Jeffrey. Make sure to write a dictionary.
 
8:04 PM
I'm blocked
this sucks
 
proceeds to sit in front of TV and yell SPORTS at the screen like an idiot for two hours
People are dumb
Hi
 
Playnig has very nice ring. I wonder how much German typing is interfering with Robot's English typing there
 
@EtiennedeMartel I just don't see why every emotion is allowed in video games except madness.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes I play games to enjoy them. getting mad at them is rather unproductive towards that goal
 
You can get sad by playing games, get happy, etc but getting mad is out of line.
 
8:05 PM
@Rapptz madness is not a emotion (did you mean anger?)
 
Doesn't make sense to me
 
@Rapptz Because there are very bad example of people going very crazy and people tend to generalize.
 
Because it's dumb
 
@sehe is that an abbreviation for what I think?
 
@presiuslitelsnoflek Nope.
 
8:06 PM
Like the guy that smashes his keyboard on his friend's face...
that shit is hilarious
 
"behavior or thinking that is very foolish or dangerous" fits, yep
 
meh. "I'm mad" is the only idiom that usually carries that meaning. "It's all madness" never means "everybody is very upset/angry"
 
such a good fake
 
8:08 PM
@sehe <insert joke about mads torgensen>
 
more than a bit disturbing.
That laughter, I mean
 
yeah, that too
 
nope, no discussion about why we don't have a non-member function call operator in DAE :(
 
@gnzlbg what are you talking about?
 
function call operator has to be a member function
you cannot define it as a non-member
that would be awesomely useful
 
8:11 PM
@gnzlbg and?
 
without it some things are just.. hard/impossible
 
@gnzlbg that would be awesomely weird
 
how do you index an array?
 
[]
 
depends if it is a C array, a C++ std library array, or an array from any other library
C arrays and C++ std library arrays use []
everyone else defines ()
 
8:13 PM
@gnzlbg no
 
since you cannot overload [] for matrices easily
 
they use () for bidimensional indexing (eg. matrices)
that's different
 
you can view matrices as one-dimensional stuff
 
8:13 PM
nvm
 
i have an opaque integer that is not implicitly convertible to std::size_t
 
i cannot use it to access array elements withotu casting
 
They use op[].
 
8:14 PM
@gnzlbg What. Why
 
i could overload non-member [] and () to support my integer
because std::array operator[] takes a std::size_t
 
Why would you use that for indexing
What the fuck do you need a custom integer for
 
because it is still an integer
strong typing
 
Wrong language for that
 
well you can get away with it in a lot of places
 
8:16 PM
Also unidiomatic
 
and bools are special (explicit operator bool supports implicit conversions in ifs)
 
but seriously operator() as non member is a bad idea IMHO
I can just feel it
 
std::get
 
yep
 
Xeo
@gnzlbg s/implicit/contextual/
 
8:16 PM
@Xeo true :D
i'd like an explicit operator std::size_t that contextually converts to std::size_t in indexing situations
to be able to use an integer type other than those built in to index a C array
it sounds weird
 
Very wrong language for that
 
cost free abstractions says bjarne?
show me an integer type without implicit conversions that can be used as an integer everywhere an int would
 
Crappy generic programming support :v
 
That makes no sense.
 
you can do that for a bool
 
8:19 PM
You cannot preempt your requirements.
@gnzlbg Nope.
void f(bool);
f(x);
 
I kinda feel like buying UE4 just to try it
@ThePhD save me
 
you can have a Bool that is not implicitly convertible to bool, but can be used with all language features
you cannot do the same with an int
 
@Rapptz DO EET
 
@gnzlbg Nope?
void operator[](bool);? Just to steal your own example.
 
user3010322
Buy it.
 
user3010322
8:21 PM
And love it.
 
for a C array?
 
I thought you hated it :(
 
you cannot overload its operator[]
 
it's actually only $20 + 5% revenue but I won't ever make money off a game so
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes or what did you mean there exactly?
 
8:22 PM
@gnzlbg Function calls are a language feature as far as I know.
 
@Rapptz 13,7 euro
not bad
I thought much more
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes so?
 
@gnzlbg Who cares about C arrays?
 
> Unreal Engine 4 is now available to everyone, and priced so that we succeed only when you do. We've made our policies to be friendly and low risk. You can cancel your subscription at any time and keep using the engine, though without monthly updates.
 
@Jefffrey If I read correctly, unity is 75$/month which makes UE4 offering that much more impressive in comparison
imo anyway
 
8:25 PM
yeah
 
user3010322
@Rapptz I hated it.
 
user3010322
But.
 
7 mins ago, by gnzlbg
show me an integer type without implicit conversions that can be used as an integer everywhere an int would
 
user3010322
I was not working with the part most people would work with.
 
I'll probably try it in a year
 
8:26 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes what i mean is, you can build a Bool type, that is not implicitly convertible to bool, and which you can completely use to replace bools in your program and use all language features. You'll get type errors if you call any function that takes a bool with it.
 
or 6 months, iunno
 
@ThePhD It was in <alpha then too wasnt it?
 
Either you want it to be used everywhere an int would, or you don't.
 
user3010322
Not really alpha, closer to beta I guess?
 
user3010322
It was about a year ago.
 
8:27 PM
@gnzlbg Er, no?
 
no?
 
@ThePhD Yeah that was my point, a year of bug fixing and dev can make wonders
 
Your definition of language features is broken.
 
yeah I went from hating Unity in 3.x to liking it a bit in 4.x
 
I split between language and library.
 
8:28 PM
(And FWIW there is at least one context where contextual conversion to bool should work but doesn't)
 
@Borgleader they are thieves
 
Unity is $1,500 and they don't take any of your revenue iirc
so Unity is better priced if you actually make money
 
@gnzlbg Which is totally arbitrary, because there's no reason to make your integer type work for arrays but not std::vector.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes :o which context?
 
@Rapptz On the other hand, I think UE4 has better tools that you would either have to buy from the Unity Store or make yourself in Unity
(Mostly talking about node scripting and shader editor which I believe are addons only in Unity)
 
8:30 PM
and GUI
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes i'm trying to write an opaque integer, such that i can get compilation errors when mixed. I think that the moment i define an implicit conversion operator to their underlying type, they can be implicitly converted to each other, so am trying to avoid that, but then they are sometimes useful, sometimes a nuisance.
 
@FredOverflow: And in an OOP spirit, I would expect this protocol to be embodied in an interface (= abstract base class), so that certain functions or methods can take SetInterface& arguments. — einpoklum 29 mins ago
This could become interesting.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes is_const inherits from true/false type?
 
Xeo
8:34 PM
it's interpreted as a type
 
?
 
@gnzlbg You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either you want it to not convert to int, or you want it to convert to int. You just need to make up your mind. If I were you I'd simply give up on the idea that arrays are special.
 
@Xeo why doesn't @R.MartinhoFernandes version work?
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes you're overlooking something though - integral_constant's conversion op is not explicit
 
8:36 PM
I want:
using Type1 = int;
using Type2 = int;
Type1 not convertible to Type2 and otherwise. Type1/Type2 can be used as int everywhere else.
 
Xeo
2 mins ago, by Xeo
it's interpreted as a type
 
@Xeo why?
 
@gnzlbg That's impossible.
 
() calls the constructor there right? so you have a value
 
It's also unrelated to member op[] or not. It's impossible even if you have non-member op[].
@gnzlbg No, it's a function signature.
 
8:39 PM
so putting it all in parents works?
@R.MartinhoFernandes :(
 
@gnzlbg Whose parents do you want to put it all in?
@gnzlbg There was some discussion on std-proposals. Not sure if anyone is up to writing a proposal right now.
 
Is there something like imgur for PDFs?
 
Last I checked no one agrees on what are proper complete semantics for such feature, especially regarding what operations get inherited and so on.
@FredOverflow Google Docs?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Does it require an account?
 
in a different world where everything worked on concepts, any type that models Integral should work
 
8:42 PM
@FredOverflow Only for uploading.
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
lolwat
 
lol
trust them with 2FA
 
Don't use Google docs for PDFs
 
8:43 PM
they ruin the quality
 
soo... after I figure out how to profile critical parts of my code, how exactly does one measure what is "good" and "bad" results? (ambiguous I know)
 
@gnzlbg forgot ::value?
 
@gnzlbg Boost.TypeErasure shenanigans vOv
 
@Crow long = bad, short = good
 
@Rapptz Oh, ugh.
 
8:43 PM
@Jefffrey Nope.
 
@Jefffrey no why? is_const inherits from true/false_type
 
@Rapptz GD sucks for everything, I guess :S
 
@FredOverflow well like. I am making a web app, and there is one method which is run whenever a user goes to a route. it takes .3 seconds... good or bad? Can it be factored to much less than that? Is it even worth it?
 
@Jefffrey en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/types/integral_constant -> member functions. An instance is implicitly convertible to the constant it wraps.
 
I made a pull request fixing this in libsimdpp recently.
 
8:45 PM
> STL, at least for me, represents the only way programming is possible. It is, indeed, quite different from C++ programming as it was presented and still is presented in most textbooks. But, you see, I was not trying to program in C++, I was trying to find the right way to deal with software. ...
> I had many false starts. For example, I spent years trying to find some use for inheritance and virtuals, before I understood why that mechanism was fundamentally flawed and should not be used. I am very happy that nobody could see all the intermediate steps - most of them were very silly.
Stepanov is so hardcore :)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes i guess i'll desist then, the extra type checking is pretty nice, but i don't know if it is worth the trouble, it has catched a couple of bugs already where people mix one int that represents one thing with a different int :/
mixed feelings
but getting it perfect is too frustrating due to impotence
 
@Griwes so why would do you ever want to use static_assert(std::is_same<a, b>::value, ...);?
 
I have an idea for how such a feature could work in a greenfield language, but in C++ it's a lost battle.
 
maybe it is impossible
 
@Jefffrey The matter of preference.
 
8:46 PM
instead of static_assert(std::is_same<a, b>(), ...)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes doesn't Haskell base everything on TypeClasses?
if you can do overloading based on TypeClasses (or Rust traits), then thats it
 
@Jefffrey Consistency and generic programming
 
@Crow Your question is impossible for me to answer.
 
You can't do T(); (at least in this context anyway) but you can do T::value
 
@Jefffrey YOu wouldn't.
 
8:47 PM
@Rapptz IC
 
There's enough cruft in TMP as it is.
 
@gnzlbg Did you look at Boost.TypeErasure?
 
@Griwes yes, but that is for a different thing
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Variable templates!
auto is_const = std::is_const<T>::value;
 
@Rapptz Meh, losing functionality to save two keystrokes. Fuck that.
 
8:48 PM
> In 1976, still back in the USSR, I got a very serious case of food poisoning from eating raw fish. While in the hospital, in the state of delirium, I suddenly realized that the ability to add numbers in parallel depends on the fact that addition is associative. (So, putting it simply, STL is the result of a bacterial infection.)
 
@gnzlbg Did you look at Boost.StrongTypedef?
 
@Griwes Yes, that is broken.
 
(Or whatever is the correct spelling)
 
@Rapptz you can't do auto is_const = std::is_const<T>()?
 
BOOST_STRONG_TYPEDEF
 
8:49 PM
@gnzlbg Because...?
 
@Jefffrey You can
 
@FredOverflow Hah, where's that from?
 
Who the fuck would ban Tony?
 
@Mysticial someone banned tony?
 
8:50 PM
it doesn't do what I want, the one in Boost.Utility is deprecated and unused, the author of Boost.Serialization has a different implementation there that is also broken.
 
user1804599
@Jefffrey me too.
 
@Mysticial fascists!
@rightfold they did the right thing ;)
 
@gnzlbg Then write a variant that does do what you want vOv
 
@gnzlbg It's still annoying because you need all sorts of glue code. Most libraries simply type (synonyms, like C++ typedef)for documentation purposes and don't care about the rest.
 
@Griwes i've tried but it seems it is impossible, there is no way to do it in C++.
 
@gnzlbg I must be missing some important feature you want, then.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes i was using () on the int wrapper to get the underlying type and have a to_underlying_type_cast that deals with native and wrapped types so that you can use both in generic code, but yes, pretty annoying sometimes, pretty useful other times
@Griwes the main feature is that two types dont convert implicitly to one another
 
magic_using index = int;
index x = 17;
index y = 42;
index z = x + y; //?
 
@Griwes if you are wrapping integers/floats and allow implicit conversion to the underlying type, since all these types normally implicitly convert to one another quite easily, you lose the type safety you were trying to achieve, and the whole thing becomes pointless
@R.MartinhoFernandes x and y have the same type, i would suppose they inherit the operators of their underlying type, but with the types these operators take replaced with those of the magic_using, so that they work with one another but not with int
 
But they shouldn't work with one another.
Multiplication doesn't make sense either.
 
8:57 PM
you have created only one strong typedef
if you create two, then they shouldn't work, right?
 
It shouldn't work with a single one.
That's about where the discussion left off last time I checked in the Asylum.
No agreement about where to draw the line about compatibility with the original type.
 
magic_using index1 = int;
magic_using index2 = int;
index1 x;
index2 y;
??? z= x + y; // type error
index1 w = x+x; // works, x operator+ (index1, index1) -> index1
 
Works but makes no sense.
 
why?
 
@gnzlbg explicit conversion operators vOv
 
8:59 PM
Adding ordinals makes no sense.
 
i've had that problem
is also annoying
i thought you were talking about strong typedefs in general and not index in particular, sorry
like index + offset makes sense
 
@gnzlbg Sure. To the rescue, C++11 already fixes that, with aforementioned explicit operators.
 

« first day (1250 days earlier)      last day (3704 days later) »