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8:04 AM
> Your password can't be longer than N characters.
Oh joy
 
Xeo
always fun
 
user1804599
> But why not?
 
user1804599
> Because we store it plain-text in varchar(N).
 
@rightføld Might well be true, but then again might not be. OTOH, "because we're clueless" would definitely be true.
 
timezones are funny
also I was supposed to be awake 2 hours ago
 
user1804599
8:19 AM
You suck.
 
Chrome killed current Loungecpp.net because it "became unresponsive"
 
user1804599
GA privacy policy link doesn't work I'm gonna sue you.
 
morning
 
> C99 (and subsequently in C11[2] relegated to a conditional feature which implementations are not required to support;[3][4] on some platforms, could be implemented previously with alloca() or similar functions)
wut
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: The last status got stale. [c++] [c++11] [c++14] [c++-faq]
 
8:27 AM
> what does this do
> it's invalid C++ code
> but my compiler compiles it
> it's still invalid
> your justification doesn't satisfy me
OPs these days
 
@BartekBanachewicz where?
 
@Bartek , your justification does not satisfy me — jaig 5 mins ago
I'm not going to write an answer to this one FTR
 
> This question appears to be off-topic because the OP is being a jerk.
 
user1804599
UWYA
 
@BartekBanachewicz of course not. the question is morphing in and out of viability
 
8:35 AM
kill it with fire before it lays eggs
 
Close votes please:
0
Q: How to "git show" patch only for files touched by a commit (or that differ between the commit parent)?

user2864740How is it possible to "get show" differences, but only show the patch for between a particular branch and it's (or a) parent? Preferably without needing to track down a ref id.. I've only been able to succeed in getting the diff/patch with the current head, which is far too post-dated and verbos...

 
DATA DIVISION.
WORKING-STORAGE SECTION.
COBOL sure is scary
 
user1646075
SILENCE!
 
user1646075
I mean,
SILENCE.
 
user1646075
i switch on to COBOL? wtf?
 
user1646075
8:41 AM
have you seen how basic maths is performed?
 
user1646075
SUBTRACT 1 FROM MY-VARIABLE.
 
user1646075
PLEASE.
 
user1804599
COBOL is fun.
 
user1646075
no wonder you're screaming in your avatar
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz I see VLA, but I don't see VLAD.
 
8:44 AM
@rightføld Should I put VLA/VLAD experience on my CV?
 
@BartekBanachewicz I like that
It's explicit. It's natural
@FredOverflow VLADFROMMOSCOW?
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow Put "Writing CVs" on it.
 
user1646075
Vlad the Impaler.
 
@sehe MOS/COW/MOSCOW experience
@rightføld CV/CVS experience
 
Must have!
CSV experience
 
user1804599
8:47 AM
user=> (map denominator [1/4 1/3 1/2])
(4 3 2)
user=> (map denominator [1/4 1/3 1/2 1/1])
ClassCastException java.lang.Long cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Ratio  clojure.core/denominator (core.clj:3246)
 
user1804599
This is so stupid.
 
@BartekBanachewicz that's UB!
 
@sehe No, it's a syntax error. You can't divide by ++.
 
@rightføld wut. That's braindead
@FredOverflow party pooper
 
8:48 AM
ponies
 
user1804599
@sehe Yeah. There's a bug report but it got like zero attention.
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz If it did this correctly it would still be a lisp.
 
@sehe If you don't like poop, you shouldn't have come to the party.
 
@rightføld like 0/1 attention
 
lel
I wonder if 3D thermal camera could work
 
8:53 AM
probably not
 
@sehe needed for poop party
 
posted on December 02, 2014

The xkcd store has some new stuff in it, and we're currently shipping for Christmas. Some of the larger xkcd comics are available in wall poster form, including a map of the combined North America subway system, a chart of nearby exoplanets, a map of what each US state is shaped like, and Up Goer Five. You can also get a bunch of xkcd t-shirts! I just made some new ones; you migh

 
@FredOverflow there
that's not strictly 3d though
 
user1804599
9:08 AM
I finally understand Bell state.
 
user1646075
The maths scares me.
 
user1804599
What is bell end?
 
user1804599
Bellair.
 
user1646075
It's so hard core,
 
user1646075
it's rude.
 
It's called "fiasco" for a reason :|
@chmod711telkitty thanks for contributing
 
@sehe Yeah. :(
I am going to drop the support. Everybody will have to call log4cplus::initialize(). F*ck those who want to log stuff from their static objects ctors etc.
 
Xeo
@VáclavZeman Why not just use the same technique iostreams does?
 
@Xeo What technique?
 
Xeo
static object in the header that guarantees initialisation before usage
 
9:23 AM
@VáclavZeman use function local statics?
 
@Xeo I'd suspect that will still hinge on a kind of JIT init (as with function local statics)?
 
Xeo
@sehe initialises the iostreams as soon as the init object is constructed (if they haven't been constructed before)
so as soon as you are past a #include <iostream>, you're good to go IIRC
 
@Xeo The problem is that people expect (too much) that log4cplus is up and running in time for their logging from static/global ctors to be usable.
 
yeah. just document it?
 
There are limited options how to do this.
 
9:25 AM
Like Boost Logging does (I think). And while you're at it, document that using it before fork() is undefined etc.
 
Option 1, using DLLMain() is not possible since it is under loader lock and MSVC's library deadlocks if you are constructing things like std::mutex in that context.
 
DllMain is never an option, really
 
Option 2, using a ctor of static global object. This runs from under the same loader lock, IIRC (or had other issues).
 
huh. only if you trigger it. Other issues: yes initialization order (note the ambiguity with file static as Xeo meant, and just static as you imply here)
 
Option 3, in DLLMain() schedule an APC that runs right after the loader lock is left. This seems to work for DLLs but if log4cplus is a static library linked with MSVC DLLs then it crashes on heap corruption. This is the bug linked above.
 
9:29 AM
So you had a hack in your library, that invites race conditions? o.O
 
@sehe Race conditions?
 
If you do something "some time, but likely soon, after leaving the loader lock" then there is a distinct chance you're gonna be late
 
@sehe The APC runs right after the loader lock is left and there are no other threads running. The process is still single threaded.
 
Anyways. Don't do this. It's a "jquery" antipattern, methinks. Always be deterministic, just strike some features and document it. It's not your fault that dynamic libraries have limitations varying across OS-es
@VáclavZeman is this a documented OS feature?
 
Yeah, I think will document that it does not work and be done.
@sehe It works and it is something I have compiled together from various sources. :)
 
9:35 AM
> However there is significant gotcha regarding use of APCs: your function will not be called until the thread is in an “alertable wait state” - See more at: voyce.com/index.php/2009/12/03/…
^ can you control that?
 
@sehe Yes, and it is in alertable state always if you use MSVC C run time DLL.
The APC actually runs/executes before main().
 
Am I missing why function local static is not an option?
 
@VáclavZeman really? is it documented somewhere?
 
good morning arseholes
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Good morning Lightnass
 
9:38 AM
@VáclavZeman "it is"? (what does that mean?) Also, if you're just the library being dynamically loaded, how will you enforce that the loading party calls an alertable wait soon enough? (before using your library?). More specifically, it's order fiasco all over if the program uses another dynamically loaded shtick that also uses the logging features
 
user1804599
I have a 58-line SQL query with lots of joins and subqueries. :(
 
@rubenvb Well, if I refrain to support users calling into log4cplus before main() then it is an option, I think. Though it has its drawbacks. There is synchronization cost.
 
@rightføld See your doctor
 
user1804599
I want Datalog. Fuck SQL.
 
@rightføld I have seen worse.
 
9:39 AM
@rightføld Also, use some views
 
@Abyx I do not think so, but it happens to be true for all version I have seen.
 
@VáclavZeman Function local static allows calling it before main, no? And yes, you'll need synchronization (but can hope for optmization cause it's a compiler thing), no feature comes for free?
 
@rubenvb There is no way to optimize this. You will always pay synchronized load or compare, e.g., with GCC.
 
@VáclavZeman and is that a problem for a library dealing with I/O?
 
@VáclavZeman There's basically no other way to do synchronized initialization, duh.
Also function local statics are awesome.
 
9:42 AM
^that
Although MSVC only just fixed them to work properly
 
@rubenvb I am talking about C++ :P
 
...
 
Also, function local statics construction is not synchronized with MSVC, so using lazy initialization like this is not an option for MSVC users.
@rubenvb Which version?
 
user1804599
@VáclavZeman lol wat
 
user1804599
Is MSVC that retarded?
 
9:45 AM
Yes.
 
@rightføld Yes.
 
user1804599
top kek
 
Every such problem will go away if I simply require people to call log4cplus::initialize().
 
@VáclavZeman 2013 November CTP and 2015
 
@rubenvb I see.
 
9:47 AM
@VáclavZeman ...or not support non-conforming C++ compilers...
 
@VáclavZeman But that still makes it impossible to call anything before main
 
Libraries that require the user to call init() are just PITA.
 
@Griwes That is kind of non-option in real world. :)
 
@VáclavZeman You can just not support that feature on bad compilers
 
@rubenvb Yes. Require them to call log4cplus::initialize() and dropping support for before main() logging.
 
9:50 AM
@VáclavZeman Real world sucks.
Don't support real world.
 
lol
 
@VáclavZeman This is just plain bad.
 
Or do your own static function local synch for MSVC
Can't be that hard
 
25 mins ago, by Václav Zeman
Option 2, using a ctor of static global object. This runs from under the same loader lock, IIRC (or had other issues).
Windows is just bad.
Not supporting Windows would be a feature.
2
 
Bunch of hacks... eh workarounds... stacked on top of each other.
 
9:56 AM
somehow I don't like this: auto mystery= std::is_floating_point<T>::value ? ((float)1.0f) : ((int)1)
 
^cargo cult
 
@Mikhail T mystery_solved = 1;
 
@Griwes It is a bad design to have globals that do stuff that requires logging in their ctors as well. :)
 
@Mikhail lolwut
@Mikhail Sounds like the author doesn't understand auto...
or the conditional operator
 
@Mikhail lol
@LightnessRacesinOrbit ... or templates
 
10:06 AM
@Griwes this would be good advice once it's finally the Year of Linux but until then MSVC kind of is the most used compiler, for better or for worse.
 
@VáclavZeman [citation needed]
 
read 5.16/3 - the result of the conditional operator is only of ONE type so most of that line is completely pointless
it's either float mystery = 1 or int mystery = 1 (can't remember which)
 
@TheForestAndTheTrees Clang is slowly getting kinda usable-ish on Windows, so... vOv
 
@TheForestAndTheTrees You can always go Intel!
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit float. Check the usual arithmetic conversions.
 
10:18 AM
fuck custom event schedulers that lose stack
Fuck
fucking crap
jfui1h[8r3hup'qwoe
 
@BartekBanachewicz Conways game of life - Bartek keyboard edition
Barteks game of life
 
@JerryCoffin there are solid use cases for php, perl and Java - most of them involve reusing a lot of existing code.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum AFAIK Java is partly useful for embedded applications.
(That use GUI and stuff)
Like the software for a projector in a metro. Those are written in Java; And why wouldn't they
It's extremely portable, no cross-compiling or shit
WYSIWYG, of sorts
 
@Columbo it's really not
@Columbo sans differences between JVM implementations on different platforms
 
@BartekBanachewicz Impossible, what would you use for it!?
@BartekBanachewicz I thought there are none
that change the behavior of the program
 
10:23 AM
@Columbo for embedded targets that have a) little memory b) little processing power c) little storage?
 
@BartekBanachewicz no
 
@Columbo we learn new things every day
 
@Columbo Saying that Java is good because it works on all platforms is like saying that anal sex is good because it works on all genders.
12
 
@Columbo for what then
 
@Griwes Not sure whether to flag or star
@BartekBanachewicz Well, embedded applications that aren't so embedded...
 
10:23 AM
@Columbo Yeah, like there are no differences between C++ compilers, right?
 
I don't know, I never worked with Java outside school :o)
 
@Columbo then use a normal (any other) language
 
@Columbo Do both, let's see which wins.
 
@Griwes That's not what I said
 
@BartekBanachewicz It's been used as such successfully several times before, therefore it's really not useful..
 
10:25 AM
Java really has wins, I don't think it's a good language but I can see where I'd use it.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I thought Java is a normal, neat little language misunderstood by society
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes so was every other piece of technology
 
Everywhere where I have to use existing Java code and I don't trust the developers who will replace me will know or are good enough to learn in a day Scala or Clojure
 
except prototypes that never got out of lab
 
Also, the professor that suggested implementing a "hash table" as a singly-linked list can be summarily be fired, thank you very much. — sehe 7 secs ago
 
10:25 AM
Scratch clojure, just scala.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum hah scratch.mit.edu
 
@sehe lol what
 
@BartekBanachewicz Why can't you make any proper arguments ever? How does the fact that other things have done things change how useful Java is?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes pointing out that backing up "it's useful" with "was used" is a weak argument for me
heck, fucking stones are useful
and sticks.
might as well stop using the word altogether, because people find use for practically everything
 
@BartekBanachewicz do you agree that there are cases in which using Java will produce correct and working code the fastest for given tasks, and would provide reasonable deployment?
 
10:28 AM
@BartekBanachewicz Dismissing that it can and has been used successfully, over and over, to argue uselessness is just dishonest.
 
@Columbo I think this is new low. However, we have no proof that this was suggested by the prof. Although "prog08.h" is telling
@BartekBanachewicz Backing things up can be pretty useful
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yes, they are. It changes nothing.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I'm not talking to you about PLs anymore.
 
@sehe Perhaps we can hope that it was some bullshit site the guy only paid 50cts for?
 
@BartekBanachewicz And these are also useful. Neither changes the usefulness of Java.
 
10:28 AM
@BartekBanachewicz then what are you talking about? It has been successfully used is a strong argument.
It means there are people who can help you with your code, that people exist that can maintain and support it and that there is probably more or better documentation.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes so was a stone :S
I mean, really.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I suggest it would be better for your mental growth if you stopped using the word Java, instead
 
@BartekBanachewicz And that changes not the usefulness of Java!
 
@Columbo That'd be a rip-off
 
If you want to smash a nut and I have a stone next to me - I'd use the stone and not get a nutcracker all the way from the kitchen.
 
10:29 AM
But keep going.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes well then, every programming language is useful
SOME ARE MORE USEFUL THAN OTHERS
 
Pretty soon you will be DeadMGing.
5
 
Except Haskell, no one ever uses that :D
 
@sehe A pretty bad one. But c'mon, it's the internet. There are worse rip-offs.
 
Nope. Nigerian princes have entertainment value
 
10:30 AM
@BartekBanachewicz I don't think anyone disagrees with that. For given tasks.
 
Like the ones promising you to earn hundreds of dollars on your ass in no time.
@sehe Too much C&H
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah, no.
 
So what do you think it means for a programming language to be useful?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes .. for what!?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes That it fits a particular person or a team for a particular task.
 
10:31 AM
Usability is defined by the subject of the use.
 
@Columbo In the case above it was for embedded programming. Which stones are not useful for, btw.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ahh, I thought the discussion has been generalized in the meantime.
 
The only person or team I can see java fitting for is a team of code monkeys
 
Yeah... no.
 
Because any competent programmer can use languages that are more expressive/safer/faster/w.e
 
10:32 AM
@BartekBanachewicz Argument by prejudice. Well done.
 
Unless they have good reasons not to.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, you can throw stones at the programmers who fall asleep
Although that could classify under "gross negligence", a topic my friend is currenctly having in Law
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes No, it's an argument of "java is one huge compromise"
you can write everything in java
 
@BartekBanachewicz I thought you were arguing for uselessness.
 
(prog08.h and cs331129@cs are tell-tale signs and making me weep for the state of CS education). — sehe 2 mins ago
On the bright side he can use his student number as a key pair, though. I'm sure nobody will be able to factor that
 
10:33 AM
There are tons of reasons to use a programming language other than the language itself. Documentation, ecosystem, ease of deployment, ease of hiring, existing code commitment, refactoring tools, code insight tools, good editors, ease to CI and so on.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Same goes to C++, doesn't it.
 
but if you're really good at what you're doing, it isn't really good at anything
 
Called it.
 
Java doesn't scale with the abilities of its user, so to say
 
3 minutes ago.
 
10:34 AM
@BartekBanachewicz Ah, that's a nice phrase I'll be remembering
 
@BartekBanachewicz huhuh. Nothing does
 
Languages don't need to scale with the abilities of the user.
 
@Columbo you forgot
 
You don't want your maintainer to require your coding abilities to maintain your code.
 
10:34 AM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Yes, they do, and they're useless if they don't.
 
@sehe Don't get it
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I've just fucking said that I consider the words useful and useless useless
 
Yay! Just got my silver badge.
 
AHH
 
:)
 
10:35 AM
1 min ago, by Benjamin Gruenbaum
There are tons of reasons to use a programming language other than the language itself. Documentation, ecosystem, ease of deployment, ease of hiring, existing code commitment, refactoring tools, code insight tools, good editors, ease to CI and so on.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yep, that's what I called out.
 
@sehe Worst joke of all time, considering mine have to be pulled quite soon :((
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes the fucking hell
 
The funny thing is that I've got five
And one of them is a little cute one
 
@Columbo that's why it's apt. Wisdom would be a positive thing, and that can't have been your intention
 
10:36 AM
Java as a language might be terrible, but just like PHP and PERL there are lots of cases where they fit better than the alternatives.
 
@BartekBanachewicz so eloquent
 
> I don't think this word fits what I'm trying to say
> HOW CAN YOU YOU HAVE TO USE THIS TOTALL AMBIGUOUS WORDING SO WE CAN CALL YOU OUT ON IT
 
@sehe I'm positive!
I really am.
 
@BartekBanachewicz It's also very incoherent: first Java "is really not" useful, then you give a definition of "useful" for this context, then you think the word is useless, which is a word you think is useless.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Dude are you on drugs or something
 
10:36 AM
@BartekBanachewicz you've got to stop raging and start having discussion, you're not a dumb person but when you use caps and rage except for keks it doesn't contribute much to the discussion.
 
@sehe This is a literal, real life example of applied "I don't even".
@R.MartinhoFernandes isn't useful and useless the same word just negated? I might be missing something there
 
There are good arguments for "don't use Java" and you can raise them but haven't.
 
@BartekBanachewicz You said that "useful" and "useless" are useless. Do you not see the problem here?
 
somebody tell @Benjamin I've plonked him
anyway
 
10:38 AM
I have to go
 
Like: you might not think it's here to stay, or you think that calling Java code from elsewhere is pretty simple etc.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'll revise this later and rephrase what I meant
 
@BartekBanachewicz I don't understand what you mean by 'plonking' me but meh.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum You make too many reasonable arguments, so he can't listen to you.
 
> plonk v. To use the Stack Exchange chat 'ignore this user' feature.
 
10:39 AM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit ah, lol.
Fun fact of the day, VS generates hilarious UML for C++ classes. Like most of the things it generates for C++ (and most UML) it's terrible but also pretty funny.
 
Yeah I mean to be fair VS generates hilarious assembly for C++ programs in general... when it manages to actually complete a build. And, when it can't, it generates hilarious diagnostics instead.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit He doesn't plonk anyone.
Anyway, see y'all later.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum btw cut it out, dat comma abuse, yeah? :p
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit not as much comma abuse as I'm shit at English. I don't read as much - whenever you notice me using bad English please do point it out.
 
@caps No.
I've never intended it as such.
That's why iterators play such a key role in it.
 
10:49 AM
@r.m nah, it was more constant and deliberate trolling.
 
@caps I'd think anyone that thinks so misunderstood it (which may be my fault or the result of ingrained misconceptions)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You could call it the filesystem::path of strings… but since it performs much of the same thing that doesn’t really explain anything :(
 
Whenever someone disagrees with @BartekBanachewicz they're a troll. Awesome level of discussion.
 

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