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Xeo
Xeo
20:01
same
@Puppy It's kinda strange, but it's good to hear you say that;)
@LucDanton GCC is just bad a these things, really: ci.reaver-project.org/… :/
yeah motherfucker
it's probably because I skipped lunch and breakfast.
How are (actual) concepts going to be used anyway? template<typename X, typename Y> void f(X const& x, Y const& y) requires EqualityComparable<X, Y> { … looks fine, but what about…
template<typename X, typename Y> void f(X&& x, Y&& y) requires ??? { …
("These things" = diagnostics related to SFINAE.)
20:02
I have cheesy scones in the kitchen. I'll go eat one.
@MartinJames scones are for clotted cream and jam!
@LucDanton std::decay
also :P @R.MartinhoFernandes how you say scones? he he he.
hint: your wrong
SCONES COCKSUCKER
@Griwes Diagnostics are perfectly cromulent; although narrowing conversions not SFINAEing out is an outstanding bug.
20:04
IIT'S TRULY OUTSTANDING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN
@Puppy Why that one? Esp. if you don’t intend to decay your arguments?
All roll up to see the truly outstanding bug!
Get on with it..
@LucDanton Well I figure that for equality comparison it probably doesn't matter
@sehe I agree, first version is complex indeed: coroutines + multipass adaptor. And I think it is actually slower.
20:05
Is it first interval yet?
but in the general case
it really depends on what you want to express.
It’s an example. The general is more interesting than the particular.
yes.
concepts in general have this problem.
IOW, what is the input of a concept? The type of data? The type of an expression?
@LucDanton Yes (SCNR).
20:07
you'd need something like EqualityComparable<const decayed<X>&, const decayed<Y>&>
@JerryCoffin I didn’t even say ‘or’! It’s not an exhaustive choice either!
@LucDanton An exhaustive list would be too exhausting.
the input of a concept is the type it's being applied to, plus user-defined arguments.
I’mma keep doing it like I’ve been doing with traits, and keep f(X&& x, Y&& y) requires Foo<X, Y> as the ‘default’. f(X const& x) requires Bar<X const&> doesn’t look half as bad anyway. Then when concepts roll out I’ll bring the popcorn.
@EvgenyPanasyuk not surprising with the context switching going on
20:11
but
I feel that that use case is not really... a concept.
a concept is a type constraint; that would be a type relation, which I'm inclined to believe may be a fundamentally different thing.
@Puppy Think of the fully-fledged EqualityComparable, with reflexivity and transitivity and so on.
There are worse examples, I would think.
still not inclined to describe it as a concept.
personally I'd go with a concept as f(Type) -> bool- either a type meets it or it doesn't.
@LucDanton I am not exactly sure if it does a wrong thing there (the tests are passing, although they might as well be missing that particular case, eh); notice how the diagnostic is only present in the invocation of the trait, and should also warn in a lambda that does the same thing, assuming it's not SFINAEd out: github.com/griwes/ReaverLib/blob/master/include/reaver/…
20:12
@sehe yes, plus multi pass adapter stores internally data required for backtracking (not all data, but still it is not free).
other signatures I would probably classify differently.
@Xeo @R.MartinhoFernandes Have you been thinking about this stuff? Input welcome.
(The trait that is enabling it is causing the warning, and the apply_on_type_list thingy just expands T and template arguments of the passed tuple into the trait. Love me some boilerplate.)
@EvgenyPanasyuk I know right :) You can flush it (expectation points do). And you can customize the storage (I believe it's dequeue by default, and that's not very efficient on some implementations)
then again.
this relation CAN be expressed as a concept.
20:13
I guess I should add a test that checks that particular case.
@sehe I even made something similar some time ago, it used deque inside.
if you define Equatable<X, Y> as say, declval<X&> == declval<Y&>
then EqualityComparable<X, Y> would be Equatable<X, Y> || Equatable<Y, X>
Server Maintenance Saturday Oct 11th 2014 - 15:00UTC (11AM EDT) to 18:00UTC(2PM EDT) We will be doing some... http://tmblr.co/Z7Lcqt1SltlSo
@Griwes That’s annoying, I thought there was a bug open but I think that went under the radar.
user1804599
I like fish.
20:21
freak
user1804599
I dislike dogs.
freak
> With -std=c++11, -Wno-narrowing suppresses for non-constants the diagnostic required by the standard. Note that this does not affect the meaning of well-formed code; narrowing conversions are still considered ill-formed in SFINAE context. [From the GCC manual]
I dislike rightfolds.
Now comes in ICE flavour.
20:29
fed bailey?
@Puppy Yes, but if I find a rightfold lying around, I'll give him an extra treat:)
lol
Ooo nice, it’s fixed on trunk.
@Griwes Fixed in the next release! Maybe!
user1804599
user1804599
dat song
20:33
@LucDanton lol
@LucDanton Also notice how there's an error in configuration.cpp in line 108? Well guess what, line 108 is the beginning of a macro that is passed a (multiline) lambda, and clang manages to make sense out of that, but apparently gcc isn't smart enough to point me to the exact line where the problem is.
@rightføld I was going to post 'lol', but no compliments from me for that.
@Griwes Well, the problematic lambda is on line 108 :D
That is a great song:
@LucDanton Line 108 isn't the problematic line, though :P
user1804599
lol
user1804599
20:37
> Read the sign you schnitzel.
@Griwes Clang has some pretty unpleasant machinery to track source locations through macro expansions and such.
@Griwes Actually, ‘required from here’ specifies where the instantiation started. Which it did there, from invoking the macro—and regardless of the lambda.
Ell
Ell
@rightføld what the hell
What follows exactly after ‘required from here’ is the error (or in your case, warning) of interest.
@LucDanton Yeah, in the most unhelpful way humanly possible.
The most unhelpful way humanly possible is not very helpful.
20:38
It is helpful. I trace instantiation stacks regularly.
It's not, it doesn't show me the line that is the source of a problem, just a first line of that macro.
Clang wins with GCC any day with diagnostics.
The source of the problem is the narrowing conversion it is pointing out—modulo the GCC bug.
@Griwes You have picked a non-example in this case.
@LucDanton The source is in line 118, not in line 108.
@R.MartinhoFernandes 'floor' and 'flew'/'flow' depending on the accent.
any of you find this interesting?
20:40
There's almost nothing in line 108.
no.
take it away.
I have a very small screen and your image fills way too much of it.
Don't listen to the puppy, it's just bitching around.
blame onebox
user1804599
20:41
@nightcracker no, but it reminds me of card games in Windows.
I'd rather blame the guy who oneboxed it
alternatively I could just plonk you. much better
@Griwes Just to reiterate: there is no SFINAE due to a bug. It’s as if your trait would have using error = int[0]; in its definition. That’s where GCC is pointing you to. You can try it, ensure that the trait always ‘succeeds’ (e.g. remove the decltype( …test… )), put using error = int[0]; and you’ll see a very similar stack.
@LucDanton The only path that invokes that trait with int and char begins in line 118.
You are not going to convince me that that's not the place that should be marked as the line requiring that instantiation.
I want you to convince you that the stack is the same as that would be produced with a trait with a blatant error in it. (Actually int[0] is a bad example, that’s not type-dependent.) Whether that’s useful or not is for you to decide, and if you want to compare it with Clang make sure you’re comparing like with like (because without the bug, Clang is seeing different code).
Then you could try a trait that doesn’t trigger the bug and see where GCC would point you this time—again, like with like.
Is that too unreasonable? I mean, I’m fine if you don’t do it, we’re all busy. But do you see my point?
Oh boy.
20:53
I definitely ate too much.
getting too wealthy already
nah
I don't get paid for another couple weeks.
but then I will get a nice paycheck
about £1700 after tax.
dicsource update!
Apr 2 at 10:06, by sehe
The supposed edible error messages that come out in pure gold, they are overhyped
Relevant?
> FIX: mobile layout was too wide
20:57
I understand SQueenix is not capable of doing a proper port, so it's no surprise there are no resolution or detail settings for FF XIII
but why the fuck did they not include sound volume settings
the game's combat is boring and the beginning is boring too but there are hot chicks in it so it's good
lame :(
they pushed my bug report to 'some future version'
I think that means it's going to be ignored
judging by everything else in this milestone
RIP
yeah, tell 'em sis
@MartinJames DRUGS PUPPY DRUGS DRUGS YAY
FF XIII GOTY
@Rapptz lol
21:00
waifu/10
I guess I'll try to find out how to fix it myself
my tootsies are cold
apparently Unity is selling their engine
or the company altogether, not sure
Unity don't have any revenue streams except engine licences AFAIK
> Now the company is gearing up for a potential sale, having shared presentations with possible acquirers including Google, according to people familiar with the matter. It's also had serious talks with at least one would-be buyer in recent months, they say.
21:07
that would be the company
@Puppy and probs a cut of asset sales
@Puppy yeah, seems so
@OMGtechy Man-in-the-middleware?
@LucDanton ?
It’s clever!
Ell
Ell
21:08
Steam should buy unity
it wouldn't be too illogical for them
but they don't seem to have that kind of mentality
Ell
Ell
and allow people to target steam os
Apr 2 at 10:26, by R. Martinho Fernandes
So I'm back to the olds of instantiating templates in my head.
I'm not sure if that's an ability that I envy or not
@Puppy percentages from asset store transactions!
the asset store is very popular
and assets from makers like Mixamo can cost up to thousands of dollars
21:10
Apr 2 at 10:10, by DeadMG
I ate some breakfast.
@Puppy Trivia by Puppy
@TonyTheLion It becomes trivia a couple weeks from then.
@Ell they already do (linux)
Apr 2 at 10:10, by DeadMG
oh shit
Ell
Ell
I didn't know unity could target linux
21:11
Yep
it can't
@Puppy so
yes it can
Unity could target my asshole
@Puppy exciting
21:11
There is no linux editor, but you can build games for linux
more like memorabilia
let me fire up unity and check
haven't started it in months anyway
"And this, ladies and gentlemen, is when Puppy was a sick, sick man"
yeah you can
Ell
Ell
@OMGtechy Ahh I see
21:12
yay drugs, yay them every day.
what wasn't available on linux then
the web player?
@Puppy Very. I think that's one of only 87 times this was mentioned
@AlexM. the editor
> Unity Technologies do not provide a Linux version of the Unity Editor, nor the Unity Web Player.
I think Puppy secretly runs Mexican cartels
21:13
@sehe I'm pretty sure that I only observed my messages complaining about sickness on that particular day twice since.
Now fixed on GCC trunk, and will be fixed for 4.9.2 — Jonathan Wakely yesterday
@Puppy oh. going to time constrain it now, huh
More trunk fixes!
@Puppy I concede that you seem to have significantly lowered the frequency of farting reports. That happened some time after you had stopped reporting every single dump you would be going to take, and precisely how good it was when you had returned. So, yeah, not fair of me to refer to this as you quote those back.
3
Time to update my two-days old snapshot.
21:16
@sehe hahahaha
Just observing.
I think its hilarious
Apr 2 at 22:43, by DeadMG
urgh my guts
Ell
Ell
urgh my buttes
@LucDanton I apologize in advance in case I'm completely off, but it seems to me Sutton uses the unaryCommon_type for forwarding use cases (example here, search for "Common_type")
21:19
@sehe I'm not quoting any farted/dump messages, they're just sickness messages.
@AndyProwl …that’s a convoluted way of decaying!
Popcorn it is.
@Puppy Like I said, completely unfair of me to refer to anything else. I should have known, from the sheer memorableness of that date, that april 2nd was exempt
Ell
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes floor & flaw probably but maybe flow
ie floor for the first
second one could either be flaw or flow
@sehe Someone else linked it :P
I don't remember the exact date of Drugs Day but it was pretty soon after that I think
21:25
I appreciate that.
@LucDanton Convoluted method, and (IMO) an atrocious name--UnaryCommon_type seems completely meaningless to me.
@JerryCoffin It’s a typo. In true Sutton style, it’s Common_type.
@Ell Oh well, I guess I'm not crazy after all. @thecoshman is.
He says the first one is "flaw" and the second can be "flaw" or "floor" vOv
(They're both meant to be "floor")
I pronounce all words, except "cat" and "sushi" as "flaw"
Do you pronounce "sushi" as /ɹaɪs/?
21:28
How'd you guess?
oo it compiles
what does?
Non-const constexpr member function.
Bjarne_case sure is ugly.
It feels wrong :(
Like they thought PascalCase was nice but wanted snake_case for some form of consistency so they mangled them up together to end up with that.
That would be This_Case
21:32
@Rapptz I just realized.
Does anyone else draft his books in Microsoft Word? That would explain Bjarne_case happening
Bjarne_case is like a crippled variant of that.
@R.MartinhoFernandes And that aptly explains why I didn't realize this anytime before
I thought Bjarne would use LaTeX since all his proposals are in LaTeX.
Thanks Cpt. Obvious
Cpt. Obvious: No problem.
21:36
xD
@LucDanton They're implicitly const since C++14 IIRC.
What flag did you use?
@Loopunroller You mean implicitly not const?
@Loopunroller No, they're not.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I admit I've never seen that before.
@Loopunroller they're no longer const since C++14 actually
21:37
Yeah, i meant non const.
I shouldn't play blitz chess while chatting in the lounge
Why not. Did you loose money?
Should've thought about what i said, implicitly const constexpr member functions is complete bullshit in C++14
@LucDanton btw I still don't understand why in all of his examples (like in most of the examples I've seen by anyone else to be fair) he is only using lvalues in requirement expressions - as if operations on rvalues where not permitted, not relevant, or implicitly allowed.
lightness?
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Hi!
21:43
@R.MartinhoFernandes I use that for test names in GMock
@AndyProwl I think a lot of the C++ community programs as they’ve ever programmed, except that they have cheaper e.g. vector constructions.
And there were concepts before there were moves.
@Rapptz I have failed miserably.
It's not about moves I think, its's about rvalues
I don't care what you believe. Test it. I just added a much more aggrvating error with missing c_str(). Please: compile with warnings enabled and use C++ if you can :) — sehe 10 secs ago
Oops. Lost my temper a bit there
@LightnessRacesinOrbit was active over here?
21:47
@AndyProwl Well if it weren’t for moves we would still be incapable of telling lvalues apart from rvalues in code. Still, you’re right of course.
@LucDanton concepts before Boost.Move?
Boost.Move is post C++0x move isn't it?
@LucDanton Why? For instance std::begin(v) returns an rvalue, and there is no need for moves. If the requirement only says *i, then I won't be allowed to write *(std::begin(v))
@Rapptz lol
21:49
@Loopunroller Concepts predate C++98.
They were in the SGI STL.
It has a rather long history.
Ell
Ell
@Rapptz woah
I didn't know tha
@Rapptz TIL.
They started out supporting signatures in concept definitions, then removed signatures and switched to expressions, but it seems to me supporting both is the most sensible choioce
@AndyProwl Mmmh I am mixing things up, since expression SFINAE was consolidated for C++11. The concepts of C++03 I had in mind used hard errors, where it is possible to distinguish rvalues, just like you’ve shown.
21:51
At this point I can’t think of any more excuses.
it's good ol' EqualityComparable :p
Sure. Just tried it: 2014-10-09 14:47:56.968142 [tcp-session] debug: received 0 bytes 2014-10-09 14:47:56.974593 [tcp-session] debug: Received data: test7.2.3.5 0.18722307655 2014-10-09 14:47:55.343591 test7.2.3.5 -0.0691607464759 2014-10-09 14:47:55.343837 test7.2.3.5 0.151471040421 2014-10-09 14:47:55.344017 test7.2.3.5 0.172789025585 2014-10-09 14:47:55.344211 test7.2.3.5 0.0409326066787 2014-10-09 14:47:55.344406 — bge0 1 min ago
Sure. That helps a lot.
@AndyProwl It’s a good example you brought up because ++it vs ++c.begin() is an old chestnut.
looking at this now
I like the way the documentation is for these concepts.
My GCC snapshot also accepts return assert( foo ), blah; in constexpr functions, too. (It used to choke on that.)
^someone tell Mr. Niebler, in civilized fashion
21:53
@LucDanton For compile-time templates it won't actually be a tragedy because the body of the template won't be checked against the definition of the concept - you will just get a worse compiler error if the algorithm passes an rvalue and you provide a type that only supports lvalues (i.e. is strictly compliant with the definition of the concept)
@AndyProwl FTR I don’t consider late errors a feature :/
@LucDanton I like how Niebler called out a DoS attacker the other day :) Reminded me of the Puppy incident
@LucDanton I agree, but that's how it's supposed to work per Concepts TS AFAICS
To the yahoo who kept knocking http://ericniebler.com offline with 50K hits/day, you're a very bad person and I don't like you. Blocked. :-P
21:55
Of course. I see what kind of non-tragedy you mean now though :)
For run-time concepts it's a serious problem though. I will have to allow a new type of requirement defining the function signature - like the original Concepts did. And perhaps they should too
Hmm..
@elichai2 once upon a time, yes
@R.MartinhoFernandes I have no idea; that's no English person!
@LightnessRacesinOrbit heyyyyy how are you?
They're both supposed to be saying 'floor'.
One is US and the other is UK.
Ell
Ell
22:02
@R.MartinhoFernandes what did the git blame reveal actually?
did you write the code?
We will never know.
@Rapptz ...but for one example, people from (near) Boston use a pronunciation different from either, but much closer to the second than the first.
Ell
Ell
Rust doesn't have templates does it?
although I've heard it has clever macros
user1881400
I need to convert a small sample of C to C# and I have basically no experience with C or C++ yet. It's hard to find what "0." means because Google filters punctuation. For example, the following code: someArray[someVal] = 0.;
22:05
@FizzledOut 0.0 -- i.e., the value 0, of type double.
It means exactly the same as in C#...
The recipe is: #1 learn C; #2 learn C#; #3 convert.
@Ell I do believe that's the joke.
Can't start from #3.
user1881400
@JerryCoffin Thank you. @R.MartinhoFernandes I've never seen that minimalistic approach. Most C# developers I know prefer to be more explicit.
@Ell It has some parametric polymorphism (‘rust generics’).
Ell
Ell
22:06
@Rapptz I couldn't tell really :P
it's pretty explicit
user1881400
@Rapptz Well, I mean that I see a trend towards extreme minimalism to the point of making reading source code harder (at least, for me, since I have a Java / C# background)
I don't see how leaving out a 0 makes it hard to read.
It's a personal thing, I guess.
Heads up, you can also do 0.f for 0.0f.
22:08
@Rapptz The same way French is easier to read than Italian (i.e., purely a question of which you're accustomed to reading).
user1881400
It's only harder when you're unfamiliar with it or still learning it, I think. It just makes it a bit more cryptic to the undisciplined. I plan on getting into C++ eventually. @Rapptz thanks, I might've guessed that one as a result. C++ sort of puts more burden on programmers to understand the compiler, which is not necessarily a bad thing.
I will never fix this Sphinx bug.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit how are you?
@Ell Mmh come to think of it the trait system gives you ad-hoc polymorphism, and that can be generic too. So just ‘generics’ it is then!
@FizzledOut Er.. No it doesn't. You don't have to understand the compiler.
user1881400
22:11
Definitely not, but in my opinion, more so than Java or C#. Probably more stereotypes I picked up from over there. Oh well. Thanks for the help guys.
I don't even know what 'understanding the compiler' means in this context.
@Rapptz But you should! Compilers are people too! :-)
C++ puts on you the burden of understanding women.
user1881400
@Rapptz knowing that 0. is valid syntax because the compiler looks to see if there is a decimal in determining that it's not, say, an integer, and then determining it to be the default decimal number, a double.
that's a property of the language, not the compiler.
22:14
The same way you have to know that 0.0 is valid syntax because the compiler looks to see if there is a decimal in determining that it's not, say, an integer, and then determining it to be the default decimal number, a double.
When you say 'C++ sort of puts more burden on programmers to understand the language' it sounds kind of weird don't you think so?
Ell
Ell
I'd always write 0.0; anyway
I think 0.; looks weird
user1881400
@Rapptz When you confuse my words, it doesn't help.
I only know one language where understanding the compiler is actually encouraged.
Ell
Ell
and makes me double take because of the dots close together
22:15
0.; looks like unfinished business
@bge0 See my updated answer. [I hope you did also fix the logging of the ss.str() into ss.str().c_str(). Don't forget.] Oh, and here is the self-contained reproducer Live On Colirusehe 3 mins ago
Is it wrong that I derive a sense of smugness from being able to smash the OP's rambling with overwhelming fact?
@FizzledOut That's just how it seems like, atm.
@AlexM. It's a one-eyed kitten face
@elichai2 alright
user1881400
22:20
Basically, it's my opinion that 0. is odd because I wouldn't expect it to work due to the leading decimal, but in fact it does. I categorize these kinds of things as tricks a programmer can do to take advantage of understanding the compiler process. I don't think it was intended to be the proper usage, even if it's available usage. I think Bjarne Stroustrup figured it was just that much faster to default 0. to a decimal type rather than 0.0.
@Rapptz that is not UK
unless they're on drugs or summat
@LightnessRacesinOrbit There are multiple accents in the UK so I'm not going to contest it.
@FizzledOut Most people would say that you "have to know what you're doing" with c++. But, in my mind, the same goes (if not more) when using Javascript, or PHP.
@FizzledOut WTF no, it's nothing related to that.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit (remember: you're a good looking woman on the internet)
22:21
(FFS C# does the same)
It's not much faster. It's negligible.
I can't find where this self.env shit is located
@Rapptz I'm quite familiar with most of them, I think it's fair to say.
sometimes navigating through code is such a pain
> a decimal type
?
jesus, the 11th Doctor is in the latest Fappening
user1881400
22:22
In the mathematical sense. Anything with a decimal apparent
@LightnessRacesinOrbit what the hell does that mean
@FizzledOut trailing*
@sehe Which part confused you, specifically?
@FizzledOut You mean, a real number. In the mathematical sense
@sehe the actor who plays the 11th Doctor in Doctor Who has nude pictures leaked.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit "the 11th doctor" and "the latest Fappening"
user1881400
22:23
@sehe Don't be overly literal.
@thecoshman wtf is this
@sehe You haven't heard of the Fappening?
@FizzledOut Yes sir. I'll be not overly literal.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Not of the "latest"
user1881400
Sure
Ell
Ell
@LightnessRacesinOrbit wut
that is of course UK
just a different accent to yours evidently
Lightness never heard it, it doesn't exist.
22:24
Hint: C++ compilers tend to get overly literal.
@sehe The fappening is not one single release of images. There have been multiple leaks, including one today.
Oh. Where do I subscribe
@R.MartinhoFernandes ITT LRIO==Puppy Nah, Puppy goes: "Puppy never heard, it's unimportant"
@Ell It's got nothing to do with mine. I'm telling you, that's a very peculiar way to say "floor" in any part of the country.
@R.MartinhoFernandes sigh.
I'm just gonna go. night.
night
how does this work
self.env isn't in the class itself
Ell
Ell
@LightnessRacesinOrbit night :D
22:26
it's in some other class
:(
@FizzledOut C# does always require at least one digit after the decimal point, but doesn't require one before the decimal point, so .0 is a double. Also note that none of this was really decided by Bjarne--it came from C, and predates C++ by quite a bit.
huh
first I've heard of this
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Let me know when they leak Alison Brie.
Ell
Ell
22:51
I want an open 3d asset format, but I don't think they exist
I found gITF github.com/KhronosGroup/glTF but it looks awful inefficient
I don't care about efficiency right now, but I don't see how this can take off ;S

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