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10:00 AM
(And they can still get money from donations even if some people use adblock! How impressive!)
 
well so which one do you prefer, do you donate?
 
Does it matter?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes hyper-kite!
 
Whether I donate or not doesn't make your point any less dumb.
 
what if everyone starts to be like you?
 
10:01 AM
Like what? Not disclosing whether they donate or not?
 
not donating
 
just for the record, I don't think that hypocrisy is bad.
 
@ScottW The Lounge has finally got to him.
 
@User17 Did I say that?
 
I assumed you are with the 99%
 
10:01 AM
Robot, just plonk User17
 
fairly safe
 
Oh well, thanks.
Now fuck you.
(And for the kids at home, what I did was an "insult", not an "ad hominem argument"; it was however, an "insult" in reply to an "ad hominem argument" which wasn't really insulting because the two things are orthogonal)
 
@TonyTheLion wtf, you weak pussy
 
user1804599
@User17 Ssshhhht! Not everybody has to know!
 
@Abyx At the end of the day, you're still an hypocrite, though.
 
10:05 AM
but they already do :'(
 
@ScottW baby, you know me. I'm rarely wrong <3
 
Xeo
"an hypocrite" reads weird. Isn't that an audible 'h'?
 
user1804599
@User17 they do not, since they have plonked you.
 
@Xeo should be "a hypocrite"
 
But they know Tony d weak puss
 
user1804599
10:06 AM
Ugh.
 
user1804599
Stupid payment provider not offering tools for local development.
 
stupid software not working
 
@Xeo Ah, dunno. Some of the languages I speak don't have spoken hs, so I might be messing up.
 
lets all go home
 
Xeo
10:07 AM
let s = "all go home"
 
Xeo
I wanna write some Haskell :<
 
user1804599
@Xeo you just did.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes the an/a thing is ALWAYS based on how it is spelt as far as I know.
 
Xeo
@thecoshman What
 
user1804599
10:09 AM
Just use “a/an hypocrite.”
 
Don't talk about hypocrites
 
"an asshole"
Waiiiit.
They added decltype(auto) but not noexcept(auto)?
REALLY
WTF why do we even have noexcept if everyone ignores the hell out of it even in the committee.
 
Xeo
erm, I really don't think noexcept(auto) would have fit with the return-type-deduction proposal
 
I need a way to lure/force those who permanently plonked me off this chat
 
10:13 AM
Why are you even still around? Didn't you violate some rule like creating a new account to work around a ban?
 
I have problem plonking people, and I can't stand the sight of those who perm. plonked me
 
user1804599
Walk the plonk!
 
it's a challenge
& I like challenges
 
user1804599
And we don’t like you, so deal with it.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes they want me around that's why I am still here
@rightfold all talk no action I am still not plonked so far
 
Xeo
10:15 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Because it's about return-type-deduction and not... noexcept-deduction? The decltype(auto) is "deduce the type, but with decltype-semantics". I do agree that noexcept(auto) would be a natural extension of that pattern, though
 
user1804599
@User17 I temporarily unplonked you because if I didn’t I wouldn’t get anything of this moronic conversation.
 
user1804599
throw(auto) :D
 
like you ever got anything out this chat?
 
user1804599
I learnt a shitload of stuff here, yes.
 
like?
 
10:18 AM
Hi all of you
 
I am here to chat, I learn things from Stackoverflow main site
 
i want to know what is mean by the term Avoid Obscure Side Effects in Coding
 
@ScottW Wait user17 is telkitty?
 
hell yeah! "I'm here to chat, not to listen"!
@GamesBrainiac yep she is
 
stop doing this people!!!!!!!!
 
10:20 AM
@MuhammadUsman You want?
 
I don't know whos who!
 
@Jefffrey
 
user1804599
@User17 like a shitload about C++.
 
@Xeo ... what was confusing?
 
@ScottW
what is obscure side effect
 
10:21 AM
@ScottW because 'hypocrite' starts with a 'h'
 
user1804599
An obscure side-effect is a side-effect that is obscure.
 
@User17 don't you think there might be a reason why they did that?
 
@MuhammadUsman That's pretty explicative but I temporary don't have an answer for you, sorry.
 
@thecoshman I'm pretty sure "an" is related to phonetics, not orthography.
It's meant to avoid a glottal stop.
 
10:22 AM
@MuhammadUsman It basically means, that some side effect, that is hard to figure out.
 
@Jefffrey can you provide me some source
 
Glottal stops occur because of consecutive vowel sounds, not because of what you write.
 
@MuhammadUsman Of course. How much are you going to pay me, exactly?
 
.00000001 $
lol
 
@thecoshman So you write (and say) "a hour"?
 
10:24 AM
lol
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes it is and it isn't
 
@ScottW Too bad you can't see that much either because there's no coin to express that value :/
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I would spell it 'a hour', and would say it like that too, but more like 'ay hour'
 
AY CAPTAIN
 
10:25 AM
@thecoshman Wut
 
user1804599
No, you say “turn ’o the hourglass.”
 
The article depends on pronunciation, not spelling
 
That's emphasis.
You don't say it like that in normal speech, do you?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes semms I am wrong
@R.MartinhoFernandes 'see you in ay hour'
 
user1804599
We got this in elementary school. :v
 
10:27 AM
@thecoshman Do you really use that in ordinary conversation?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes not sure... trying hard to work out how I say it... and then how to spell that
@R.MartinhoFernandes you know.. I probably don't even say 'a' or 'an', just 'see you in hour'
 
Pronouncing "a" as "ay" is an emphasis mechanism, because it's hard to emphasise a schwa.
 
@ScottW probably is 'an', but terrible accent makes it come out more like 'ah'
 
Hmm, how can I google for words that start with silent "h"...
 
but yeah, I've already conceded it should be 'an'
 
10:30 AM
@ScottW "an hour". because the h in "hour" is not spoken. While the h in "hypocrite" is spoken, so it's "a hypocrite". a/an is not about spelling, its about pronunciation
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes "words that start with a silent 'h'"
 
@thecoshman Good luck.
 
first result bitch
fair enough it only has two that start with a h, but shut up
 
@thecoshman Totally worthless since middle silent hs are not interesting here.
 
10:33 AM
fucking shitty piece of shite software crap urgh
 
same applies for words starting with U: its "a university", but "an unknown amount" - because "university" is pronounced more like "Yuniversity"
 
@ScottW That seems like a dialectal thing. Wiktionary gives /ˈhɒmɨdʒ/, /ˈɒmɨdʒ/, /oʊˈmɑːʒ/.
 
@ScottW you say the 'h' there o_0 though, is 'oh-marg' something different to 'hom-ag'
@R.MartinhoFernandes so... would it be a or an :P
 
@thecoshman depending on how you pronounce it. a /ˈhɒmɨdʒ/, an /oʊˈmɑːʒ/
 
10:36 AM
@thecoshman Depends on dialect, yes, but when spoken one would not use "an" for /ˈhɒmɨdʒ/, or "a" for one of the others, mostly because those combinations are awkward to produce (again, it's the glottal stops).
 
@ScottW s/British/proper/ yes
 
@thecoshman define "proper". It's a foreing word, stems from French, so /oʊˈmɑːʒ/ would be the "proper" pronunciation.
@ScottW why wouldn't it count?
 
@ScottW ors duce duce
 
@ScottW Apparently most silent initial hs come from French words anyway, so that makes total sense.
 
@ArneMertz erm... what?
 
10:40 AM
@EvgenyPanasyuk hey, i finished my attempt at an structure of arrays container :)
https://github.com/gnzlbg/toys/tree/master/soa
i've cited your "as_fusion_map" metafunction there but please check out that I cited it properly :)
 
@thecoshman He's a native speaker of a language that respects foreign words.
 
@ArneMertz It is.
@thecoshman He's right.
Only Yanks say "homage" as in "porridge"
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Apparently some Brits do too :S
 
@ArneMertz Precisely; it's about the pronunciation and not the leading vowel
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah but they're like fake Yank-like Brits who should go back to not their own country ;)
 
@gnzlbg Thanks - it looks good. I think I used wrong name for do_continue - it should be the opposite, like stop.
 
10:43 AM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit It is about the leading vowel sound :P
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yepper
@sehe haha that confused the fuck out of me
due to how it appears on the starboard
 
@ScottW most English words have been "borrowed" - so it doesn't matter if that borrowing happened 2 or 15 centuries ago. If you use it as a noun in English sentences, you have to decide the "a/an" issue. At least you won't say "Can I have a Hors d'oeuvre? Or an? Doesn't count anyways" ;)
 
"or dervr" or, if you're a moron, "whore's doovra"
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Brits that know the word only from American TV shows maybe? ;)
 
@Evgeny I can change that, or if you are comfortable with github just send a pull request. I haven't finished the whole std::vector interface yet but I think that as a proof of concept of what is actually possible with mpl and fusion the example in soa/main.cpp should be enough.
 
10:45 AM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit ... I thought 'homidge' and 'omarge' might have been two separate words...
 
@thecoshman Meh, that could be so
 
WTF are those words.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes well EXCUSE ME for not being fluent in IPA
 
@thecoshman Oh. That's what you meant.
Sorry.
 
10:47 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes grumble grumble grumble it's fine grumble grumble grumble
 
@gnzlbg By the way, as you can see - you have both: variable names like x and tag types like keys::x. In some cases it will be used by identifiers, in some by tag types. I don't like such duplication - that why I abandoned ADAPT_ASSOC or DEFINE_ASSOC, and just used hand-crafted fusion map in my implementation.
 
unit test suite at 50%. After 40 minutes. TDD with 60sec turnaround times my ass
 
I need a database with words and their pronounciation.
 
@ScottW east london horse?
wait, screw that, no one in London knows what a 'h' is
 
@thecoshman do they call it "orse" in east London?
 
10:49 AM
select word from words where orthography like 'h%' and not (pronounciation like 'h%')
2
 
@ArneMertz o_0 don't run the full suit everytime...
 
select no, stfu
 
@gnzlbg also, it looks like your push_back also not exception safe: if some of field constructors will throw - other should be reverted back to original state.
 
@thecoshman lol, you found another one. no one knows what AN 'h' is ;-)
 
@thecoshman Londoners live in a separate country known as Te United Kingdom Of Great Britain And Nortern Ireland
 
10:51 AM
@ArneMertz lol
 
@gnzlbg What I would like to have for compile time reflection in addition to iteration over members - is ability to create new structs/classes with given field names. Like for SoA vector it is handy to create structure of references.
 
... default value of someclass.username =][= NO USER WAS EVER SET OR THIS IS ONE HELL OF A COINCIDENCE =][=
 
Ugh, two-phase init.
 
user1804599
uhg wtf
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes meh
 
10:53 AM
@Evgeny yep, no exception safety, almost no checks that all fields have the same number of members, no move-semantics yet... I still think those things can be worked out.
 
hm... any purrformance guru here? what's faster on x86 - branching or function pointer call?
 
@thecoshman of course not. but being able to run it more than once a day would be fine. The point is, the team calls them unit tests, while over 99% of them are integration and system tests, all relying on an Access database with system configuration and on execution order (~200 singletons make it hard not to)
 
user1804599
@Abyx If a function pointer call would always be faster the compiler would always optimize it to that.
 
@Abyx depends on the predictability of the branch
 
10:54 AM
@gnzlbg Yes, I agree. For proof-of-concept it is not important.
 
@Evgeny yes the fusion macros for adapting an associative sequence rely on you providing the keys... I think that if:
 
@ArneMertz o_0 if it goes outside the scope of one class... it probably is not 'unit' testing
 
perhaps the function call can be inlined by the compiler
 
Hard to inline calls across function pointers.
Possible, but the situations where that happens are rare and dubious.
 
- one gets mpl into the standard,
- and fusion into the standard,
- and either MPLLIBS metaparse or character literals as template parameters,

it can be done with minimum compiler extensions:

fusion_map_with_char_literals_as_keys = std::reflect<Struct>();
 
Xeo
10:56 AM
Help, I'm stuck reading about black holes on Physics.SE!
 
@thecoshman I know... but those singletons used in all places make it effectively impossible to write actual unit tests
 
so probably the branch will be faster since call will require also a ret instruction (twice as slow ?)
 
@ArneMertz mock mock mock
ergh... keeping jira bored updated gets tedious
 
well I think I should just write code and measure purrformance
 
@abyx reality is hard to predict and measure is always more real
 
10:58 AM
@thecoshman Yes. Would be possible with some months of refactoring...
 
that would allow you to change all members to lowercase and save you from screaming code, use mpl and fusion to modify structs, and then with some:

using modified_struct = typename std::fusion_map_to_struct<modified>::type;

you could even get a struct back from a fusion associative map
 
@Renaud Measuring is hard anyway.
@Xeo How appropriate. You fight like a cow.
 
i am asking my self a question about type alias. Is it good to import types in a namespace in header file with "using X = Toto::X; " ?
 
Xeo
using Toto::X;?
 
i know that using namespace X is bad in header file, but is it ok for type alias
using X = Toto::X;
 
Xeo
11:01 AM
No, I meant, what about using Toto::X;?
 
i have got something like namespace X { class X; } somewhere
and i want to use the same class in another namespace
 
Xeo
1 min ago, by Xeo
using Toto::X;?
 
namespace Compact { using X = Toto::X; }
 
@gnzlbg std::reflect, std::fusion_map_to_struct and identifiers template parameters looks sufficient. What about additional stuff like is_private_member<struct_name, identifier>, etc?
 
@ArneMertz I'm sorry, were you not just complaining about your units tests taking so long they are not worth using?
 
11:04 AM
@Xeo "using Toto::X;" is good in header file ?
 
@gnzlbg By the way, I am not sure if they will bring mpl/fusion into ISO. But maybe something like this? And fusion can have adaptors on top of such specializations.
 
@Renaud What do you mean by good?
 
Xeo
@Renaud It's bad if you inject the names into the global namespace.
If you just want an alias in another namespace, that's likely fine
 
not bad practice that will leads to hard to find bugs (such as using namespace std; in .hpp included somewhere)
 
Xeo
Of course using X::bla; at global scope is a bad idea, but if it's actually namespace Y{ using X::bla; } that might be fine
 
11:06 AM
@thecoshman yep. that means refactoring has to be done very cautious and takes time, because I have only very poor means of detecting if I break something. In fact, I am refactoring as I go.
 
@gnzlbg by the way, I have sent pull-request.
 
@xeo Thanks, i will do that
 
@Renaud But yeah, most of the time using X = Y::X is redundant. Just use using Y::X.
 
ok the only think usefull with "using X =" is if i want to rename thinks or to "import" templates
@Xeo, @Jeffrey thanks for the advices
 
so, question finally got asked "Why are we using JEE?"
 
Xeo
11:09 AM
Not needed for templates, using X::some_template; is fine
 
ok so using is better than typedef here
 
Ell
Morning everyone
 
user1804599
lol
 
Xeo
> Note: On iOS, application metadata is inserted as png metadata into the application icons so that Adobe can track the number of AIR applications available in the Apple iOS app store.
 
user1804599
Apparently Dell released a laptop that smells like cat piss.
 
11:12 AM
@Renaud typedefs are kind of impossible to use with templates, IIRC
 
user1804599
@Xeo lol
 
@Xeo what the fucking hell
 
well, version with branches looks to be ~5% faster
uhm no, actually it's significantly faster.
 
0
Q: Wrong effects during eraser implementation

beeI'm implementing eraser using ipp and I couldn't find any solution for my problem. It occurs when I use eraser once - first click and then I click again but next to the first object. Something weird happen between these two objects. There is no smooth connection like in gimp or other application....

terribru question
no code or anything
 
You have my close vote, milord.
 
11:18 AM
same here
 
@rightfold Yeah - 'Dell Cattitude' - it's been around on reddit etc. for a few days. One less on my Ultrabook list..
 
@Jefffrey why should that be?
 
Ell
Why should that question be closed?
 
@ArneMertz Nevermind I was wrong.
@Ell Why shouldn't it?
 
Ell
@Jefffrey I mean as opposed to just a downvote
 
11:23 AM
> "Questions concerning problems with code you've written must describe the specific problem — and include valid code to reproduce it
Seems to suit that question
 
ok... VC++ optimizer sucks...
 
@TonyTheLion but it has aliens!
 
11:40 AM
lol
 
@Evgeny thanks! I just merged it :)
There are a lot of things not worked out: access control tags, member function types (we can emulate them with std::function but that won't be enough)...

I really don't know. At the end of the day you want to be able to find a member in a struct, to transform a struct, maybe to sort struct members to optimize alignment, to rename members, push/pop members... and to me this sounds a lot like an STL for structs. MPL + Fusion is not enough. But MPL is an STL for type lists, and fusion is an STL for type-lists with values (tuples)... if you have that, STL fo
 
@IvayloStrandjev I think there is need for caps, because if I didn't think there was, I would not have used caps. — Tony The Lion 8 secs ago
 
VC++ Y U NO DEVIRTUALIZE?!
 
Why is this so fucking hard
 
Xeo
Wheee
 
11:55 AM
plz show me your codez — Tony The Lion 17 secs ago
@CatPlusPlus because software
 
because cat.
 
Xeo
So, I heard people have too much time on their hands? Have Candybox 2!
 
You're slow
 
noooo~
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus I've been avoiding it on purpose.
 
11:57 AM
Oct 25 at 5:18, by Cat Plus Plus
Argh there's a new Candy Box
 
Xeo
damn thing would eat my time like it's cheese cake
 
Have you seen the revamped Cookie Clicker
 
Xeo
nope
also stayed clear of that
 
Play it
Grandmas demand it
 
Xeo
lol
 
11:59 AM
@Xeo you're weak.
 
Xeo
Nom nom, delicious tomato-mozzarella-ham sammich
 
12:17 PM
Nom nom, cake.
 
Xeo
I also have that
 
Mine is delicious and moist.
 
Xeo
mhmmm
 
Actually no.
I was warned I wouldn't like a Mohn-Birne cake, but I was stubborn enough to try it anyway. Turns out I don't like it.
 
Xeo
I quite like Mohn
 
12:26 PM
It not delicious. And certainly not moist :s
 
Xeo
lol
 
ok, it's time to try to write FP-style code in C++.
 
Xeo
Okay, a spoon wasn't the best weapon-of-choice when fighting a bee sting cake
 
haha, good luck.
 
@Xeo probably better than bare hands
 
Xeo
12:30 PM
but at least the cake is moist and most certainly delicious :)
 
Xeo
Next time I'll get me some cheese cake. Nom
 
That's what I should have picked.
 
Now I want cake too
Damn you all
 
@TonyTheLion I want cake too :( Not this garbage.
 
12:36 PM
hm... I feel like I need const_cast. meh C++ is so wrong...
 
Xeo
No, you are wrong.
 
@Abyx You broke your program
 
Xeo
Stop blaming C++ for your inadequacies.
 
when in doubt, blame C++ !
3
 
good morning
 
12:40 PM
well yeah, my architecture sucks and I think to much about performance
 
I used to use const_cast and I rewrote my entire program so I wouldn't
 
eventually I also will rewrite it.
but right now I think that const_cast is the only way to go.
 
Xeo
4 hours ago, by Xeo
then you just suck
 
ugh, my feet really hurt and its making me a grumpy fuck
I should eat some comfort food
 
well if C++ had autoproperties things would be better. Actually right now I want to write public T field {get; private set;}
but without properties I have to fuck around with const stuff
 
12:45 PM
wut
const data members are wrong.
 
Xeo
const-overloading, I guess
For the getter
 
@Xeo Since he has a private setter in his example, I assume there's nothing to overload.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes hm, true
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I want uhm "const access" to members
 
const data members are still wrong.
 
12:46 PM
doing x { get; set; } always felt like bad design to me
 
Xeo
T const& blah() const{ return _blah; }
 
What @Xeo said. A bit of boilerplate, yes. No problems, though.
(No UB, either)
 
I realised yesterday that Qt is actually a pretty impressive library
 
What's cool about it? (Never really looked into it except for the containers once)
 
It makes cross platform work really easy.
Native GUIs, settings, filebrowser, etc
> The QSettings class provides a high-level interface for storing settings permanently on disk. On Windows, it uses the (in)famous Windows registry; on Mac OS X, it uses the native XML-based CFPreferences API; on Unix/X11, it uses text files.
iunno, I thought that was pretty neat
and the interface isn't horrible
 
user1804599
12:52 PM
Yum.
 
user1804599
Muffin.
 
user1804599
@Rapptz that's nice.
 
ok, so here is the case where I want const_cast:
struct Obj;

class ObjTable
{
    map<ObjectId, unique_ptr<Obj>> m_objs;
public:
    // readonly access to an object
    const Obj& get(ObjectId id);

    // modify object
    void modifyA(const Obj& handle)
    {
        assert(validate that handle is in m_objs);
        auto&& obj  = const_cast<Obj&>(handle);
        ... modify obj ...
    }

     void modifyB(const Obj& handle);
     ...
};

usage:

auto&& obj = objTable.get(id);
objTable.modifyA(obj);
objTable.modifyB(obj);
objTable.modifyC(obj);
 
user1804599
Potential UB.
 
well it's all about purrformance
 
user1804599
12:59 PM
The compiler will happily optimize all your code.
 
user1804599
If you need to modify the object, don’t take a const&.
 
void modifyA(const Obj& handle)
Ugh.
 
it won't optimize away m_objs[id] in each modify* method.
 
Xeo
@Abyx Why is get not const?
 
What kind of broken interface is this :S
 

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