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6:00 PM
@DeadMG What I said was:
19 mins ago, by Jerry Coffin
@DeadMG If so, that's a problem with the design of the f in question. Well, not necessarily a problem exactly -- it might be documented to provide only basic exception safety, not (for example) strong exception safety. A stack.pop() that returns the item at the top of the stack can't even provide basic exception safety.
 
@not-rightfold Your new flavor of the month?
Seriously, I swear you just look up buzzwords in a book and declare all problems shall be solved with that.
 
@not-rightfold I think so
I don't know, who cares, I'm not writing a RDBMS any time ever
I'm also bad at articles
 
user1804599
E.g. is the expression between the outer parentheses a relation or a set?
 
@JerryCoffin Yes, I clearly read the quote. I'm just trying to understand exactly what it is you meant.
 
> A relation is a tuple (H, B) with H, the header, and B, the body, a set of tuples that all have the domain H
Projections and joins also modify the domain, so the result is a new relation I guess
 
user1804599
6:05 PM
That sentence seems a little broken.
 
user1804599
Oh, nevermind.
 
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus Ah right.
 
I'm not sure, though, so don't quote me on that
 
@DeadMG It sounded a great deal as if you hadn't read it, since you seemed to be interpreting it as nearly the exact opposite of what I said.
 
well, I can't conceive of an interpretation that can't be used to show that virtually every function in existence with side effects is wrong and permits T stack::pop() to be wrong, given the change I suggested about the destructors and exceptions.
 
Ell
6:09 PM
@not-rightfold are you doing a compsci degree?
 
user1804599
@Ell lolno
 
@Ell rightfold is too cool for school
 
Ultimately, it comes down to this though: especially if you care about strong exception safety, you generally need to break an operation into two phases: the first phase can throw, but has no (or only reversible) side effects. The second can have irreversible side effects, but can't throw. Those have to be separated sufficiently that you ensure you never even enter the second phase and cause any irreversible side effects until you're certain the entire operation can and will succeed.
 
Ell
I thought you were at uni
 
user1804599
If we got relational algebra at school I may have stayed there.
 
user1804599
6:10 PM
It would’ve been at least a little interesting.
 
@JerryCoffin Sure. But you can use virtually any function that causes side effects in an exception-unsafe way by violating that rule. stack.pop() is no different in that respect.
 
Ell
Do you guys prefer a particular version numbering system?
 
user1804599
Yes.
 
user1804599
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, etc.
 
user1804599
Or 1, 2, 23, like Firefox!
 
user1804599
6:14 PM
Though I really like this one:
 
@DeadMG A stack.pop() that returns a value puts the two phases together: if the assignment/copy/move throws, it still causes an irreversible side effect. Ergo, it can't provide strong exception safety.
 
JavaScript has no exception handling.
That just sucks.
 
@GamesBrainiac Bullshit
 
@CatPlusPlus Not as good as python at least.
 
@JerryCoffin I could do the same for any function. For example, if I had an f() that returns an int that has a side effect, I could choose to do struct silly { silly(int) { throw exception; } }; silly s = f();.
 
user1804599
6:15 PM
@Ell 0.1, 1.4, 1.1, 2.5, 3.9, 5.2, 8.6, 13.5, 21.3, 34.5.
 
user1804599
@GamesBrainiac wtf
 
Ell
I like 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13...
 
user1804599
It has try/catch/finally. You have simply never used it because Node.js is a piece of cuntsucking fuckshit.
 
@not-rightfold If it can't even catch something as trivial as a KeyError, then no it has a poor excuse for exception handling.
 
user1804599
Terrible exception mechanism ≠ complete lack of exception handling.
 
6:18 PM
I can't even create a KeyError class myself.
 
@DeadMG Yes, you can design another function equally badly if you try hard enough.
 
@JerryCoffin The bad design here has nothing to do with f(). If I made silly a template, I could do any function with side effects that returns any value- ever.
or hell, I could just do f(); throw exception;.
and I'm going to suggest that it's a self-defeating result to suggest that all side-effect-producing functions, ever, are badly designed.
 
@DeadMG Yes -- this sort of thing has been discussed repeatedly, such as with respect to why dynamic exception specifications are largely incompatible with templates.
 
user1804599
lol
 
@DeadMG You're still obviously missing the point: it's not that nothing can have side effects. It's that you have to separate the parts that can have (irreversible) side effects from the parts that can throw, and only carry out the irreversible side effects when/if you assure that nothing in the preceding phase threw.
 
6:23 PM
yes, and that issue is resolved in the implementation of pop() by the introduction of separate destructors for success and failure, as I suggested originally.
 
user1804599
Why is std::hash not a function?
 
stateful hasher support was required.
 
user1804599
Ah.
 
I've never taken a deep look at std::hash. Can be it be done at compile time (if you're hashing litterals)
 
user1804599
Haha.
 
6:34 PM
oh wait... stateful nvm
 
user1804599
switch (hash(mystring)) {
    case hash("foo"): …
    case hash("bar"): …
}
 
user1804599
If you have constexpr std::size_t hash function!
 
Awww yiss (I wonder if this will work on steam though...)
 
eh
maybe if this was one or two years ago, I'd care
but really, I've played DX:HR to death.
 
I'll admit I've never finished the DLC =/
 
user1804599
6:38 PM
DirectX HR? Where they hire DirectX developers?
 
you retard
 
I've never even bought DLC
I don't see myself replaying DXHR
The boss fights are terrible
 
well, in many respects the game was poorly balanced
the boss fights were bad, stealth was overpowered, some of the augmentations were interesting but far from all
 
@DeadMG Sorry, had to stop and get some lunch for the kids. I'm still not sure how that would work, unless one of the dtors you're advocating would be one that simply didn't destruct the object at all (and somehow, the idea of a dtor that doesn't destruct sounds like a cure that's much worse than the disease).
 
JBL
@Borgleader Ouch, I may seriously be tempted.
 
6:44 PM
@not-rightfold What a cool idea!
 
@JerryCoffin Nah, you have a separate local. Something like this.
it's really the same principle as database transactions- you want to commit the transaction if success, or rollback if failure.
I used the ~T(...) syntax from the recent Asylum proposal.
 
okay -- is anyone good at fairly advanced statistics? Not like, anything really fancy... but yeah
 
People in Belgium are.
 
Ell
@Crowz I'm good at non advanced fancy statistics :)
 
6:59 PM
@Ell okay... I have a collection of data, each referring to a month in the year. I want to project for the current month what I should EXPECT at the end of the month. (It's basically a dictionary like {'January': 10, 'February': 13}... do any functions in this API do what I am asking? docs.scipy.org/doc/scipy/reference/tutorial/stats.html
 
@Crowz Sounds like a basic linear regression.
 
Ell
But I don't know about this stuff. This is advanced non fancy statistics
 
@JerryCoffin I don't think the regression is linear, it certainly looks a bit more exponential than anything (but not quite) and I don't want to reinvent the wheel so want a function to do it
 
user1804599
@JerryCoffin lol
 
7:07 PM
@Crowz Sounds like you want a polynomial regression (which is still generally considered a form of linear regression, even though it's non-linear). Just beware: if you use too high a degree of polynomial, you can get fairly meaningless results. With N points, a polynomial of order N or higher can fit the points exactly, but any noise in the input can produce massive changes in a prediction.
 
@JerryCoffin hmm, there must be a prepackaged way to calculate this, right?
 
@Crowz Since you're apparently interested in a Python version: docs.scipy.org/doc/numpy/reference/generated/numpy.polyfit.html
 
@JerryCoffin thank you, good sir
 
@Meraman I know some about it, but not nearly everything. What do you care about?
 
@JerryCoffin I am developing application on MPEG2 TS, I have some doubts about PCR things
 
7:13 PM
@DeadMG Ah, I guess I missed the point of what you intended -- yes, making an extra copy of (the crucial parts of) the data, is another approach that can certainly work.
@Meraman Sorry -- not a part I've ever dealt with much, so I doubt I can help out much. I do remember some oddity about it using two different clock frequencies, but honestly not much more than that.
 
Ok, my app makes VBR TS stream to CBR by adding null packets, now on analyser I get lot of PCR_accuracy_errors :(
 
There is a small part of me still trying to cling on to this that programming can be a hobby too. I don't think it will last much longer.
 
user1804599
Hmm.
 
user1804599
Is a name like _T reserved even if I use it for a UDL? It would be quite annoying. :V
 
Has the Drawing library paper been posted yet? isocpp.org/files/papers/n3791.html
 
7:22 PM
not a chance.
that paper is just them announcing that they want to think about it.
 
user1804599
@chris lol
 
@Meraman Hmm...that does sound odd -- it doesn't seem like a null packet should have any effect on the PCR at all.
 
@DeadMG It's something at least.
 
not really.
they want to start from an existing library, but I'm aware of none that would be worth Standardising.
 
I have the impression you think most libraries are shit, so I'm not surprised :P
 
7:25 PM
I do.
the reality is that most of the programmers capable of designing decent libraries focus on the more difficult of them, like containers and stuff like that.
 
yes, but to make to CBR, I have to add nulls
 
I've not seen a single GUI or drawing library I would consider well-designed.
 
@DeadMG write one then.
 
why would I do that?
 
user1804599
Hahahaha.
 
7:28 PM
I have no current need for such libraries.
 
user1804599
Standard GUI library would be terrible anyway.
 
user1804599
You cannot have a cross-platform GUI library that is not horrible.
 
school is the most oppressing thing
Damn, doesn't look as it should here.
 
user1804599
It would either work well on only one platform and suck on all the others, or it would suck on all.
 
well
you can't have a GUI library without Unicode.
unless they want to Standardise drawing English only, I don't see how it can be done prior to introducing real Unicode support.
 
7:31 PM
@DeadMG they can use ogonek when the robot is done with it
 
welp, time to sleep again.
maybe I won't feel quite so shit when I wake up.
 
psh. Sleep. Who needs it
 
Do we have an ETA on R# w/ C++ support?
 
@Crowz As my great aunt (I think that's what she was) used to say: "No rest for the wicked, and the righteous don't need it."
 
Ell
@Borgleader Could be a while
they could use ICU until then
or smthing. idk
 
user1804599
7:37 PM
You know.
 
user1804599
enum class foo [[flags]] { … }, or wherever the fuck you’d have to put that attribute, would be cool.
 
user1804599
:P
 
@Borgleader Not that I've heard.
 
Damn :(
Alright, let's see if I can understand CryEngine's typeinfo/reflection system/wtv thing
 
8:00 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes That was ruben
 
user1804599
Wait wut.
 
user1804599
Why does != have higher precedence than &? :V
 
Xeo
wat
 
@not-rightfold Because && and || didn't exist yet back when the operator precedence was decided.
 
Xeo
Oh, binary &
 
8:11 PM
This is a great song if you enjoy feeling nervous.
 
user1804599
@Griwes How is && relevant to &?
 
/r/programming really hates C++
 
@not-rightfold && did not exist, so programmers used &.
When you can't write foo && bar, you just write foo & bar...
 
user1804599
I find the lack of short-circuiting in this thread disturbing.
 
@Rapptz Did something happen?
 
8:15 PM
Nah. Every post that involves C++ in someway always gets these negative posts about it.
It's always happened.
 
Oh, wow, I just see that D is really being used at Facebook now.
 
user1804599
Sublime Text 2’s font rendering is top notch.
 
So, in A Link Between Worlds, the Dark World is called... Lorule.
Yeah.
@StackedCrooked Can't see why.
 
I read it on reddit.
 
Ell
10000110 << 0 = 00000000000000001111111110000110 does anyone know if this is correct?
 
8:19 PM
It's like they hired D's creator or something... oh wait.
 
Ell
if 10000110 is unsigned
 
user1804599
@Ell Where do those set bits come from?
 
Ell
@not-rightfold all the 1s?
I don't know :/ that's the problem
 
@EtiennedeMartel I wonder how long it will take before this move has benefit (measured in dollars).
 
@StackedCrooked Considering it seems to be motivated chiefly by political and not technical reasons, I'm guessing a hell of a lot of time.
 
8:24 PM
@StackedCrooked Apparently it's already 1.67 times faster than before and compiles 5 times faster.
 
Just found it.
Did a search for "1.67".
 
I didn't know D has a performance edge over C++.
 
Ell
@StackedCrooked I think he meant than older D
 
No he's comparing it to C++
 
8:29 PM
@Ell It could be. It looks like it's getting converted from signed 8-bit (probably char) to signed 16-bit (probably short), then to unsigned, and finally a 32-bit type.
@StackedCrooked If you compare new D written by Andrei to ancient C++ that's most likely close to a direct transliteration from PHP, then yes, it probably has a performance benefit.
 
Ell
It seems any bytes whos most significant bit is 1, the whole byte is turned into 0xff :S
 
evening
 
Hm. I'm looking forward to relaxed constexpr.
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: It's always friday in Belgium. [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq] [no-questions]
 
@Ell Yes, that's a signed being promoted to a larger signed.
 
Ell
8:37 PM
@JerryCoffin See I can't see why because all the types are unsigned
 
@EtiennedeMartel I'm stealing that
 
Ell
I think. I hope! let me double check
 
@Ell Without seeing exact code, it's hard to say, but as you showed it, they're not. 0 has type (signed) int.
 
20 minutes until company sponsored beer.
Can't fucking wait.
 
@ScottW Hello.
 
Ell
8:39 PM
@JerryCoffin Oh my gosh. I checked this code 50 times to ensure the bytes were unsigned! How stupid of me, I missed it :/
 
@EtiennedeMartel I guess it's a comfort to those of us with...lesser jobs that at least you aren't having sex while you wait for your company-sponsored beer... :-)
 
Ell
Fixed now (for parsing uints anyway, I'll have to test for ints). Thanks!
 
@ScottW Yup -- for a couple weeks now.
 
@JerryCoffin Despite the large amount of beautiful women working here, I don't think having sex on company grounds is a good way to keep my job.
 
Ugh sex.
 
8:41 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Yeah, I'd have to guess. Canada may be a bit more liberal than the US, but that's probably still pushing the limits just a little.
 
@EtiennedeMartel fifteen minutes to get your will registered
@StackedCrooked you know, some people enjoy it
 
user1804599
@sehe Die Roosendalers kunnen echt geen friet maken. Ben in nog geen een Roosendaalse friettent geweest die kan tippen aan ’t Dorp in Schijf.
 
user1804599
Satay, actually.
 
user1804599
It was absolutely horrible.
 
user1804599
8:44 PM
The hamburger could’ve been better, too.
 
Als je goede frieten wil, moet je naar Belgie gaan.
shaddup with your brocoli
 
@sehe are you the sex-type?
 
user1804599
@TonyTheLion s/Belgie/Schijf/
 
@ScottW unsurprising
do you ever actually eat?
I was gonna say: inb4 I'm fat
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
8:46 PM
Your bed.
 
lol lol lol
 
Ell
@ScottW hey me too!
 
user1804599
 
Ell
being fat isn't emo! :O
Being anorexic is emo :P
 
@TonyTheLion I once read a travel guide that had all sorts of directions to get great food -- most of them were things like: go to hotel X, talk to person Y, and get him to take you to his brother in law's restaurant, and order Z (which isn't on the menu). For fries, however, he claimed that McDonalds beats everybody else.
 
Ell
8:47 PM
Tbh I'm not fat. Just overweight :P
 
user1804599
@Ell you are anorexic.
 
user1804599
“Oh god I’m so fat.” — Isn’t fat.
 
@JerryCoffin No way that McDonals beats everybody else. I could take you to places in Belgium where you'll get fries like you've never had them before. Just yum yum.
 
user1804599
The only thing McDonald’s is good at is ice cream.
 
user1804599
Everything else there is epic fail.
 
8:48 PM
Just like I could take you to places where you'll get beer like you've never had before.
 
user1804599
People just like it because they associate it with fun due to Happy Meals when they were young.
 
Cause Belgian Beer rocks the Fucking World!
 
user1804599
Belgian beer is terrible.
 
user1804599
It’s terrible because beer is terrible.
 
user1804599
And Belgian beer is a subset of beer.
 
8:49 PM
@TonyTheLion Note I'm not agreeing with him -- just found it humorous. I have to admit I have no basis for arguing with him either though. It's been over 20 years since I actually had a meal from McDonalds.
 
@ScottW oh baby, overwhelm me and take me to those places <3
@JerryCoffin McDonalds is terrible and not worth your money.
@not-rightfold lol
 
user1804599
Kijk maar: als ik mijn pootjes beweeg, beweegt mijn schaduw ook. http://t.co/pf5jFe9KZw
 
user1804599
lol
 
A good beer can be really awesome. I'm sure @EtiennedeMartel will agree.
eat something decent
 
@TonyTheLion A good beer fixes every problem. Except a full bladder.
 
8:51 PM
Let me order you a pizza
@EtiennedeMartel Haha
 
user1804599
@ScottW Go to a Dutch restaurant.
 
user1804599
Eat Dutch food.
 
user1804599
Hutspot met HEMA-rookworst.
 
@ScottW Where's the nearest good pizza place, I can order you a pizza from online?
OFFS
Baby, you're ruining it
 
Ell
@EtiennedeMartel It helps that too! If you keep drinking them your bladder will automatically empty itself :)
Oh my gosh if you guys ordered eachother pizza that would be the cutest thing ever
 
8:53 PM
@Ell I so would do that
 
user1804599
Eat a tompouce.
 
@ScottW I am dead serious
 
@ScottW You could go to Holland and meet @not-rightfold.
 
user1804599
Business meeting.
 
inb4 red light district
 
8:54 PM
@TonyTheLion Did I ever tell about the time I accidentally (honest!) wondered into Brussels' red light district?
 
@ScottW so do you want a medium or large?
and what pizza do you want?
 
compile-time strings are cool
 
@ScottW come on FB chat
 
user1804599
@TonyTheLion ok
 
Ell
@JerryCoffin I want to hear this story! :D
 
9:00 PM
@JerryCoffin I don't think you did.
 
user1804599
@JerryCoffin Yes, you did.
 
@Ell It's honestly not nearly as exciting as it might sound. The first time I was in Brussels, I stayed in a hotel that's probably 300 yards (or so) from the Brussels North train station (Gar Du Nord) -- but mostly behind and off to one side. It was kind of rainy (big surprise) so instead of walking out the front and around the building toward the hotel, I found a back door out of the train station.
 
user1804599
My bedroom is best red light district.
 
At first it looked like kind of strange lingerie shops or something -- little stores, each with one mannequin modeling underwear. Then one of them moved, and I rather suddenly realized what was going on...
 
user1804599
Jerry de hoerenloper.
 
Ell
9:07 PM
@JerryCoffin Oh gosh :P
 
Oops: s/Gar/Gare/
 
@JohanLarsson you tell me. I do enjoy it, if that's what you mean
 
I just called a Pizzeria in Michigan on my phone, but they wouldn't take credit cards over the phone so I couldn't order @ScottW a pizza. :(
 
@TonyTheLion they just lost a loyal customer
 
9:12 PM
@TonyTheLion Damn -- that is sad.
 
@TonyTheLion What was the area code?
 
@Rapptz what the restaurant?
There you go
 
Oh that's close to where I am (313)
 
oh the phone area code
I was thinking zip code
ahahah, I suck at 'Murica
my zip is in my pants
 
TMI
 
9:17 PM
@sehe For this kind of reaction I say this kind of stuff. So worth it. :)
 
ikr happy to oblige
 
:)
I went to the pub with some coworkers tonight. Was really nice. :)
lol
 
user1804599
Gaulish is a nice language to listen to.
 
Hey, food cans have holes. They're perfect!
 
Ell
fuck.
I think I deleted my git history :/
--hard
   Resets the index and working tree. Any changes to tracked files in the working tree since <commit>
   are discarded.
 
user1804599
9:24 PM
@ScottW WinZip
 
Ell
Yup I think I did :/
gah I should have read full SO post :(
noooo :/ What to do now
 
I usually do git reset --soft
What did you do?
 
Ell
git reset --hard HEAD~7 to go back 7 commits to change the commits to another branch
But that wasn't correct
I think maybe I can get the changes back
 
It's correct it's just a hard reset.
That's why I do soft reset so I don't lose my files/work/etc
:(
 
Ell
Huh. I just did git reflog then git reset --hard to the commit before the git reset --hard
Well that was handy :D
Woo I fixed it!
 
9:30 PM
:)
 
Ell
Okay. Maybe not.
 
user1804599
Deflate.
 
Unzip. ;)
 
user1804599
FailRAR
 
user1804599
Non-free crap.
 
Ell
9:36 PM
Hmm. Git couldn't deal with the untracked files for some reason o.O
 
@not-rightfold If you're going to complain about non-free crap, how about SEA ARC.
 
@Ell It's nervous, give it time ;_;
 
user1804599
@JerryCoffin lol .sue.
 
@not-rightfold Inverse Porn
 
my cat is broken... she doesn't like bacon
and now my banana is fighting back!!!
 
9:48 PM
Use your toaster
 
@thecoshman Cats don't actually like anything.
 
happy bunny I am not!
 
Ell
Okay! Time to start writing unit tests. Now the problem of testing private functions!
 
Hi, I have a question
 
Ell
Go on
 
9:52 PM
I have a struct and i allocate it like so
struct arg_struct *args = (struct arg_struct *)arguments;
 
@BrandonLing Are you doing C?
 
wait i lied, yes i am doing c, i cannot find a C channel
 
That's because everyone hates C.
 
Ell
We can't help you I don't think :/
 
You are being rude.
 
9:53 PM
rude? why?
 
:( its a common in c or c++ though, no?
 
Ell
@BrandonLing I'm afraid it's not common in c++ really
 
Ahh, you would just create a class
 
@BrandonLing The struct part tipped me off, because it's optional in C++ (and usually see as bad style). C-style casts are also seen as bad in C++.
 
Ell
(struct arg_struct *) is called a c style cast for a reason
 
9:54 PM
How to read the contents of a .mat file in C/C++?
 
ok thank you!
 
@SonuKrMishra Because this is for chatting, not link dropping. It's one thing to add a link that's relevant to a conversation, but simply jumping in with "please answer my question" is frowned upon (at best).
 
what happened here?
 
@SonuKrMishra Here's the deal: we're a small community of people, and we usually want people to try and be part of that community before they get to ask questions.
 
9:57 PM
??
 
How to be the part of the community?? I asked this question on the forum, but didn't get the answer. So, I asked it here. Where is the problem?
5
 
user1804599
Is there an efficient way to calculate how many times you'd need to call std::next_permutation(A.begin(), A.end()) to get from sequence A to sequence B?
 
Ell
@SonuKrMishra By chatting?
It's a chat, to be part of the chat community you must chat
 

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