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12:01 AM
@DeadMG Should I make a new type just for this purpose? My other idea was pass in an empty vector, then add whatever it is in it back to the main one.
 
@Pawnguy7 No. Just screw optimizing it for now.
 
@DeadMG Before the optimizations, it was like 6 FPS.
It just happens that this specific one didn't make a difference.
 
yeah, I was about to say, I very much doubt that iterating over a few extra blocks can make that kind of difference.
@Pawnguy7 Then I would suggest the core issue being lack of profiler data.
 
It would have in one of my old collision attempts.
 
whoops.
 
12:03 AM
@EtiennedeMartel it sounds incredibly ineffective... like if you get internet connection then who really cares? No responsibility yo
 
lol
 
Finally, on const & to the grid, the main thing I worried about was what created it. Though I guess making it construct itself fixes that.
 
@Crowz You're missing the point.
 
How do you drop something to 6 FPS?
I honestly think that's impressive
 
@EtiennedeMartel what would the point be?
 
12:04 AM
Update a few hundred things at once, in the same thread.
Note the turrets calculate line of sight, every time.
Which isn't fast if they are far away.
 
@Crowz That it would be more expensive to just fire them and then re-hire them.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Why would you fire them and re-hire them? Why not just keep them and give them something useful to do?
 
@DeadMG Because you don't always have something useful to do?
And anyway, Quebec tax breaks.
 
hmm.
so what you're really saying is that it's a cyclical, rather than uniform, need for employees.
 
Exactly.
 
12:07 AM
Anyway, my main issue isn't specific cases, it is the entire process. Both of my approaches are broken, and I cannot seem to get it in the middle.
 
Because a project doesn't need the same amount of people throughout its course.
 
it seems to me that the most logical approach is to simply sell those developer hours on to some other company.
 
You mean the competitor?
 
yep.
 
All projects are surrounded by layers of NDAs.
Nobody would want to buy those hours because then they'd know about the stuff you're working on.
 
12:08 AM
Is your skill and experience layered by NDAs too?
 
Doesn't matter. We're talking about organisational needs.
 
@EtiennedeMartel So what? Any of your current employees could leave and join them at any time.
 
@DeadMG The competitor probably wouldn't be willing to do so, for security reasons. In any case, they might not want to, because when they need them again, they might need them in a hurry, not after they complete some external contract.
 
@DeadMG You don't want that.
 
@EtiennedeMartel You can't stop it.
 
12:09 AM
@DeadMG Sure you can when you're the largest game development studio in the world.
 
hell, your employees could post all your secrets online.
the only thing an NDA really gives you is the right to sue afterwards.
 
@DeadMG You can give people attractive enough compensation they don't want to.
 
@DeadMG Only if they lack ethics.
But then you don't want to work with that kind of person.
 
want to != don't have to
I just don't see how outsourced employees would be any different to regular employees in this respect.
if they break the NDA you make them sign, you sue them.
 
@DeadMG It's more expensive to sue than what you can get out of it.
It's a person we're talking about. Not a corporation.
 
12:12 AM
then why make regular employees sign NDAs?
 
It's symbolic.
 
why isn't that symbolic value exactly equal for an outsourced employee?
 
I've actually never heard of someone being sued over an NDA.
 
The worst thing that can happen if you leak stuff is that your reputation (and therefore your carreer in game development in Montreal and probably the whole world because everyone knows everybody there) will be ruined.
 
I bet I could look it up but I've never personally heard of it.
 
12:13 AM
@DeadMG Basically one of expectations. People expect an employer to be loyal to their employer, not to a competitor, just because of a business deal between their employer and that competitor.
 
##c++ @ freenode dies after 2am.. I hate that
 
@JerryCoffin So basically, it's elitism. Our people are good enough to follow an NDA we make them sign, but the other guy's people aren't.
 
@JerryCoffin s/employer/employee/
 
@DeadMG thoughts?
 
@DeadMG Not really. It's an expectation that (at least some of) the people who work for us do so because they like/respect us, and want our company to succeed. People who work for another company probably do so (at least some of them) because they like/respect them, and want them to succeed.
 
12:21 AM
@JerryCoffin Not all of your employees give a shit about what happens to your company. Some of them may even want to actively sabotage it. But when they sign the NDA, you still give them your data.
 
since we have gotten std::begin/std::end how long do you reckon it will take until we get std::size?
 
Check if theres a proposal for it, if there isnt: ETA infinite
therefore make one
if there is, well petition for it :P
 
@refp Never?
 
@Rapptz I guess a boring question deserves a boring answer..
would be "fun" to have though
 
Not all containers have .size()
 
12:28 AM
std::copy_n (std::begin (container), std::size (container) / 2, std::back_inserter (dst));
@Rapptz which is the reason for std::begin/std::end, not all types that are iterable (more like "contains elements") have .begin/.end
 
and here I thought std::begin existed because you might have a user defined begin function rather than .begin().
hmm
std::size sounds like it'd be better for something else anyway
 
I already made my own size function that works on containers and arrays.
 
int arr[10]; assert (std::begin (arr) == &arr[0]); assert (std::end (arr) == &arr[10]); assert (foo_size (arr) == 10);
template<typename T>
constexpr size_t size (T const& t) { return t.size (); }

template<typename T, size_t N>
constexpr size_t size (T(&)[N]) { return N; }

template<typename T, size_t N>
constexpr size_t size (std::array<T, N> const&) { return N; }
done! now add that to the standard and never use it
 
array has constexpr size
 
ah well, nevermind the last overload then
 
12:33 AM
std::rbegin etc
 
the question, however, is what imaginary_size (a) would yield if a = T[N][M]?
 
Cool. It exists now.
It'd return M I think
 
with the above implementation, yes
but I'm talking in practice
 
multidimensional_size
 
std::begin/std::end doesn't "even" work for multidimensional arrays
 
12:36 AM
No sane person uses multidimensional arrays
 
there are a lot of insane persons writing c++ though..
 
@Rapptz No sane person uses C++ </Cat++>
 
std::begin and similar functions should contain an static_if (std::rank<T>::value == 0, "not usable on multi-dimensional arrays")), or atleast yield some sort of warning
where T comes from template<typename T, int N> std::begin (T(&)[N]) { ... }
  /**
   *  @brief  Return an iterator pointing to the first element of the array.
   *  @param  __arr  Array.
   */
  template<class _Tp, size_t _Nm>
    inline _Tp*
    begin(_Tp (&__arr)[_Nm])
    { return __arr; }
^ /usr/include/c++/4.8.1/bits/range_access.h
either an overload should be existant for multidimensional arrays, or it shouldn't compile.. in my book that is
yes, I've had too much coffee so I'm just ranting
 
lol static_if
 
wait what the fcuk, how the.. what the.. wait, what!?
nevermind, you'll get the correct end but it won't be the "correct" type depending on how you look at it
 
@Rapptz I now have a valid insanity plea.
 
@Rapptz Just goes to show what happens when you give every nutter in a nation a device whose sole purpose is to kill other human beings.
 
@DeadMG I am more curious what the reasoning behind it was
 
1:08 AM
their brains tried to call a __cdecl function pointer as __stdcall
 
1:32 AM
no.
 
@MatthewH I can't answer that, I'm afraid of the internet thugs.
@MatthewH I'm not your slave.
 
cleanup
 
that.. erhm.. wasn't really what I wanted or expected
 
@DeadMG Assuming good design, how do you picture the Screen design?
 
pretty close to what you've got, but you need to use an owning pointer.
 
1:41 AM
What I did in the other one was
There is a... setter tied to the pointer.
Which is passed to the rooms on update, so they can change it.
It takes its arguments as themselves (overloads), which allows me to do that.
And don't blow up if you don't new stuff in the call - better, I think, because the caller doesn't have to worry about it.
Anyway, my issue is the passing: Currently, I pass a ScreenStuff, which is basically a package of whatever you might need. Feels messy though. Assuming that part didn't suck... everything else does.
 
because you keep bitching and whining for help as if we're your personal slaves.
 
Probably a bit too much, perhaps :D
 
I don't even know why you're throwing a tantrum here. The most effective way to gain help with your problem is to find someone who actually wants to help you.
 
Oh look, you erased all my messages. Good job. That's not going to stop me from talking.
 
@MatthewH have you asked on SO?
 
1:55 AM
@Pawnguy7 questionbanned
 
@DeadMG Is that displayed somewhere low enough for me to see it?
 
@Pawnguy7 Question banned because of multiple reasons. So I can't.
 
@Pawnguy7 It's not displayed anywhere. He said it earlier
 
geez, just go help the vampire why don't you
as if we don't already get far too many of them
 
2:02 AM
That is all I have to say on the matter. I know nothing of the problem myself, and that was third google result.
 
@Pawnguy7 Thank you. Obviously we got different search results. Hm. Anyway. Thanks. It's fixed now.
 
My query was "error C4996: 'fopen': This function or variable may be unsafe. Consider using fopen_s instead."" if you are interested.
 
@Pawnguy7 Ohh okay. Thanks.
 
Strange bug.
About a fifth of the time, the text is shifted.
 
inb4 "i forgot to comment: if(rand() % 5 == 0) shiftTextToTheLeft();"
 
2:14 AM
It seems to be related to the position where I died.
Ah, I know what it is.
I had a view for the main gameplay screen.
Which was still in effect, even after switching screens.
I am tempted to leave it in just to mess people up.
I cannot beat my own game :\
 
rofl really
send it to me and I'll give it a go
 
You on windows?
 
ye
 
2:31 AM
Ok.
Note that it isn't finished.
 
of course
after all, I've seen the source :P
 
Good point.
Anyway, it is now playable without closing the window every time.
I also need to fix the green things soon.
 
lol failed to create font
 
Sigh. I forgot again.
You know where to find arial.ttf?
 
no, but I'm gonna ask Windows
 
2:34 AM
I miss the built in font.
It was perfect for things like this.
 
you'll just have to package it with it
 
I suppose so.
Not sure how legal it is, maybe I need to find a different font :D
 
hmm
 
What kind of game uses Arial as their font?
 
the instructions button doesn't work :P
 
2:36 AM
@DeadMG "unfinished". As it happens, that is what I am making at this moment.
 
also I keep dying for no reason I can perceive
 
The black dots kill you.
 
yeah, I got that far
but since they appear to be about 1 pixel high and wide, I just can't see them.
 
And I can't get through a square-sized pass.
 
2:38 AM
I see them. Hrm.
@MarkGarcia That one has bugged me. I might reduce the player size a bit.
 
I would say half of the problem is that the play area is too small
 
Also, be forewarned, the greens are a bit messed up.
 
and the bullets too fast
 
Anyway, I'll try to beat it. :)
 
it's easy to outpace the turrets moving forwards, but if you move so that one of them is suddenly in the play area, there's no way you can survive
by the time you react to seeing the turret, you're already dead
 
2:39 AM
That would seem to be my leading cause of death, yes.
Would you prefer it if the active turrets region was within the window a bit, instead of outside a bit?
 
Honestly, the covering system is nice. :)
 
@Pawnguy7 No, the window just needs to be bigger, or the bullet speed slower.
plus, the bullets definitely need to be more visible.
 
I'm a fucking pussy.
 
How about that?
:)
 
Congratulations :D
@Jefffrey Made progress
@DeadMG how is 3x3 pixels?
 
2:42 AM
I can't sleep because tomorrow I have my first day at school of the year. How pathetic is it?
 
I'd have to pay it, but that still sounds small.
 
@Pawnguy7 I see.
 
also, I should mention that your system of turret firing is, realistically, just plain broken.
 
Do tell.
 
if you get within a certain distance of a turret, you're just plain dead, because they turn instantly.
and in addition, the fact that they can't lead you makes you totally immune to them as long as you're moving in the right direction.
they need to have a turning speed (and a visible direction), and they also need to lead their shots
 
2:44 AM
I can try that.
Any ideas on window size?
 
O= - - - - - - - - - pew pew
 
...
 
:P
@Pawnguy7 Make it wider.
 
1) just introduce a camera that moves around with you
2) infinite area
3) ????
4) profit
 
welp, I won.
 
2:46 AM
Doesn't it already?
 
Last time I checked no.
 
Check again?
 
Hmmm. I'm gonna need the new code (the old one didn't have a movable camera).
 
5x5 currently, and in theory can now be altered very easily.
 
better, but still needs to be bigger
 
2:53 AM
Good thing I added moving with D.
 
ok, that's definitely better
 
So I can alt + prnt screen these action shots.
 
@Pawnguy7 That is good.
 
So, the instructions screen will probably be pretty simple and static.
Say, draw a yellow rectangle, "this tries to kill you", etc.
 
yep
 
2:56 AM
Should the player be able to shoot?
 
Are you aware of the diagonal walking problem?
 
fixed.
 
@DeadMG I really do hope C++ error messages are that friendly.
 
@MarkGarcia This is just my first pass. I don't think they're very friendly. It's kinda long.
 
@DeadMG At least it makes a whole lot of sense than novel GCC errors showing paths and template typenames.
 
3:00 AM
yeah, but this is an extremely simple error compared to that.
hell, I haven't implemented most errors yet.
 
Finally you can retract a close vote.
 
in fact, you can still only get errors which are single-file in nature.
 
@DeadMG The problem with GCC errors is that it needs to display long paths and typenames because it runs in command line. However with wIDE intellisense :), you can just let the red squiggly lines point the errors, greatly reducing the complexity of the message.
 
@MarkGarcia It's not that simple. Debugging a template error is fundamentally equivalent to debugging a run-time function. I would need a full debugger UI, give or take. Which is what I'm planning on right now. But it's not gonna be as simple as popping up a squiggly. Because the problem is far more complex than that.
 
And looking at the red underlines at the identifiers themselves are a lot more intuitive and contextful than looking at plain identifier names.
 
3:05 AM
ho boy
I just wrote T& t = *new T();.
 
@DeadMG Then delete &t. :)
 
@MarkGarcia heh.
it's exposed as a C API so I can't use an owning pointer (or just a value, which I had before).
@Pawnguy7 Preferably.
 
Well, good night lounge, again.
 
3:21 AM
holy shit, I keep forgetting how terrible the Visual Studio APIs are
 
@DeadMG Anybody who thinks the VS API is bad should be sentenced to writing an extension for MS's ancient Programmer's Work Bench (PWB). When (if) they recovered the ability to communicate coherently, they'd never complain about VS again! :-)
 
lol
 
Wow.
lol
 
@Rapptz The operative term would be "yikes!"
 
@Rapptz I guess those are from an old website. The images are non-animated GIFs!
 
3:36 AM
What do you expect from a site that is hosting images from an ancient IDE? :)
 
Wait. It has two monitor debugging!
 
I found the images here
 
Actually, I shouldn't complain quite so much -- in some ways (after a lot of work on customizing it) I rather liked PWB. It was best years after most considered it basically obsolete. When new, it was a giant pig that took forever to load and ran like a snail. Years later, with lots of memory and a much faster processor, it was actually quite bearable.
@MarkGarcia That's really CodeView, not PWB itself.
 
@JerryCoffin microsoft was ahead of the times
 
huh.
a single project item can have multiple filenames in the VS system?
fuck.
 
3:40 AM
@JerryCoffin I'm amazed it has some extension mechanism, though based from your previous statement, writing one would definitely be a pain.
 
Hi
Does having a bunch of included headers cause any problems?
 
Slower compiles.
 
@MarkGarcia It was actually an emacs (according to RMS's definition of the term). All keys were re-programmable, and it had a built-in vaguely lisp-like language. The biggest problem was that documentation on the language was one tiny step short of nonexistent, so about all you had to go on were some samples, and a lot of testing.
 
If I just want to use one method (like .swap) in the utility header... is there a better way to do things than including the header?
 
@DaveC Unfortunately no, at least not as a rule.
 
3:44 AM
OK thanks. Take care.
 
@JerryCoffin I guess you mean "hammering" for "testing" there. :)
 
@MarkGarcia I can think of other terms as well, but yes, "testing" implies a great deal more formality than was really even possible.
 
Arrgh, the graphic person I hired is not getting it - the graphics are already quite good, but I hired him to 'perfect it'
So quite good is not enough
tedious hand holding
 
mornin guys
i g2g to college soon
so just dropping by to say hai :P
 
@Telkitty猫咪咪 You have quite a standard. :)
 
3:55 AM
I wish ... only if my coding was perfect too :p
 
4:26 AM
53 and a half pounds of weight I have lost
 
4:41 AM
congrats
 
eh, I'm not really feeling that way
I've got plenty more weight to lose, but if I didn't want to lose weight, I wouldn't have much of a choice in the matter.
 
@GamesBrainiac hey
@DeadMG its almost November , well at least its closer to November now than before
 
yeah
a little bit.
 
I just want Pokemon X/Y
:(
 
4:57 AM
Why would you include source code, that should go in the .cpp, in the header file?
 
er
for a start, a massive chunk of that is templates that can't go in a cpp file
 
Oh yeah. But I mean, is there a reason to do that with non-template code?
 
because it's a trivially small thing and you can't be arsed to separate it out?
remember, every TU is another TU that has to include <vector> and such.
 
TU?
 
translation unit.
 
5:02 AM
Which is the output file from a single source file compilation, right?
 
no.
 
also inlining ?
 
I'm going to bed to fail to sleep.
 
Bye.
 
@Xeo Yep :)
 
5:04 AM
gnight
 
@DeadMG Good night.
 
Oh, a TU is the code of a source file + all included file's code - lines skipped by the preprocessor.
 
@Jefffrey basically what a compiler "sees" when you tell it to compile a single .cpp
 
5:19 AM
@Jefffrey Or the resulting code after being preprocessed.
 
Got it.
 
5:36 AM
@Pawnguy7 It is refreshing to see people posting pictures of their work instead of just complaining all day long about how badly everything and everybody sucks :)
8
 
5:47 AM
@FredOverflow I'd post my work but it sucks.
 
Ell
6:31 AM
Morning chaps
I post my work occasionally. I just barely do any :P
 
> I came across your profile on Github. I use the platform very actively. I also noticed that you use a lot of javascript ins your projects and hence reaching out to you.
Idiots
 
6:59 AM
I'm so ready to start this new day out, after a sleepless night.
 
user1804599
7:12 AM
@CatPlusPlus Oh I get such crap quite often.
 
user1804599
Also with “I saw you on Stack Overflow.”
 
user1804599
Usually accompanied by poorly worded statements and questions.
 
user1804599
@Xeo And Go. :3
 
user1804599
var x string = "hi" is ugly. :P
 
Morning
Man, traffic in London was horrendous, took me almost 1.5hrs to get to work. hahah
Hey hottie
you alright?
I saw you noticed I was pissing off the Apple fanboys on FB
@ScottW Yea I'm alright
How's business?
oh yea
hahah
That was hilarious
 
7:25 AM
I have been invited to a bunch of events, but I am not going to any of them ... maybe one. The truth is that, most of them are awesome events, and a lot of them are free. But they are useless to me.
 
What about socializing?
oh yea, Loungers aren't social people :P
 
Hanging around with people I don't know well are tedious
 
You could get to know them
isn't that the whole point of the excercise
 
Besides I have more important things to do and I need a holiday
 
IMPAHTANT
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: The Lion knows what he's talking about. Listen to him. [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq] [no-questions]
 
7:32 AM
Have you watched BB?
 
And...
 
I'm not going to write spoilers in here
 
Please don't.
 
but yea, it was kind of inevitable
 
7:33 AM
Just impressions.
Did you liked it?
 
What's going on here?
 
user image
3
Yea, actually, not a lie at all
 
user1804599
@TonyTheLion I made that.
 
user1804599
Where did you find it?
 
7:40 AM
Lol
 
And now Tony is gonna get the stars for it.
 
@not-rightfold The starred messages
 
user1804599
Ah. :P
 
void foo()
  try {
    bar();
  }
  catch (...) {
  }
The notational convenience is incredible.
 
so we can't ask questions here?
 
7:44 AM
@Daniel That's a question.
 
@TheForestAndtheTrees Hehe
 
@Daniel You are allowed one question and you just used it.
 
@Daniel no questions.
We don't talk about fightclub
 
@Daniel There is already a question and answer site, Stack Overflow. This is a chat room, for chatting.
 
lol
 
7:47 AM
1 message moved to bin
no.
 
That was clever.
 
@Jefffrey what was clever?
 
@TonyTheLion I disagree. I would never put the end of the curve lower than the start of it.
 
^ +1
 
yesterday, by Cat Plus Plus
FYI LoungeChat now has a Redmine instance at https://redmine.loungecpp.net (also works without SSL if you're a Chrome-using scrub and cannot add exception)
^ Why do we need this?
 
Xeo
7:50 AM
@StackedCrooked Totally
 
C#, yuck
you'd think it would've been written in C++, eh?
 
@wilx some people are determined to create their own replacement for SO chat
 
lol
 
@Daniel you clearly do not know C++ well enough :P
 
@thecoshman I'm a newbie to C++ :). What makes you say that, though?
 
7:53 AM
@Daniel it is not the greatest language in the world.
That and this crazy little idea of 'problem domains'
 
@thecoshman It can be a pain in the ass, yes. I like it though
 

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