« first day (814 days earlier)      last day (4149 days later) » 

11:03 PM
why is wpf so heavy
dependencypropertydependencypropertydependencypropertydependencypropertydependen‌​cypropertydependencypropertydependencypropertydependencypropertydependencypropert‌​y
 
@NolwennLeGuen Because it does most of the work for you.
 
@JerryCoffin s/inferiority/superiority
 
suboptimal replace detected
 
user142019
syntax error detected
 
@Zoidberg vim accepts that.
 
11:04 PM
Way to show superiority.
 
user142019
@sehe TIL
 
@DeadMG Only if the UK isn't considered part of Europe.
 
lol
 
The UK is part of Europe?
 
11:05 PM
@Zoidberg Vim Free Tip #13784: %s/\r to replace all spurious ^M after se ff=unix
 
supposedly
 
@NolwennLeGuen Nah. That's a mistake
 
When did they let that happen
 
@NolwennLeGuen Part of the EU, it appears.
 
@NolwennLeGuen Hey, it's your fault. It takes two to tunnel.
 
11:06 PM
The MSDN article Welcome Back to C++ (Modern C++) doesn't have the best of style examples IMHO
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I am in no way responsible for the acts of the country I happen to live in
 
As if I cared.
 
I know you do.
 
That sounds better.
 
@sehe Yeah... half of that is C++98 advice.
 
11:08 PM
We all care
Deeply
@DeadMG Also, definitely not idiomatic. Half is a bit overstated, I think. What half? (besides, range-based for and unique_ptr, obviously)
 
@DeadMG Well, they do use a lambda, so it's not exactly C++98, even though it's hardly exemplary C++11.
 
@sehe Uh, what half? I grepped that page for "half" and got nothing.
 
@DeadMG lol.
 
He meant half of it, as in 50%.
 
user142019
11:10 PM
Wow the puppy is going nuts with Unix terms! First "s/x/y/", now "grep"!
 
@DeadMG You said 'half'
> unordered_map, et al.: Lower per-element overhead (major) and constant-time lookup (minor because O(log N) INVALID USE OF SYMBOLS O(K)). Harder to use correctly and efficiently, because of inconveniences + sharp edges. WTF?
 
lol
oh :P
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes 'I grepped "50%" and didn't get anything either!'
 
@Zoidberg It's in the Jargon File.
 
11:10 PM
@NolwennLeGuen bwahahaha
 
hmm
 
@sehe These articles that pretend the way to write C++ used to be crappy are annoying. What are they implying? "Hey you dudes writing C++, you know what, you are fucking dumb"?
 
the whole way that page is presented makes me feel it's not supposed to be public.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Doens't make it any less PC for Windows addicts
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes No way they could have dared!! No way
 
11:12 PM
Just look at the first example.
 
@DeadMG ^ the other page definitely needed a proofread
 
but I do kinda agree
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes This?
> Stack-based scope instead of heap or static global scope.
 
> Don't use C arrays.
 
@sehe No, the snippet of code.
 
11:12 PM
How nice of them.
 
because unordered_map has shitty iterator invalidation semantics.
@ThePhD Well, it's quite concise and fairly accurate, so I'mma call it a win.
 
Ell
I didn't know c++ had for_each
 
> The C++ language itself has also evolved. Compare the following code snippets. This one shows how things used to be in C++: follows code with new and delete all over
@Ell Since 98.
 
user142019
I only use std::for_each when the function passed is a unary non-member function.
 
user142019
Otherwise I prefer ranged-based for.
 
11:14 PM
@DeadMG At least part of it looks like some sort of page template got confused and inserted an error message into the page (the " INVALID USE OF SYMBOLS O(K))" part).
 
user142019
(Or when I only want to iterate part of the container, of course.)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, that's harsh, but true-ish. At least back when boost wasn't widely used or even supported
 
@sehe When the fuck was that?
 
@JerryCoffin Nah, that just makes me think that one of the programmers is being sarcastic.
 
Also, it isn't hard to write a vector wrapper that does the right thing.
 
11:15 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes We young'uns don't quite remember.
 
@Zoidberg I'd think real hard before using a lambda for the sideeffects
 
user142019
lol
 
user142019
std::for_each without side-effects.
 
@sehe Oh come on. Even without Boost, pointers were rare in decent code.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Before you were born, apparently? Not so long ago. E.g. 4 years ago, I couldn't (comfortably) use boost on AIX (xlC++) and Windows (granted, the typical "can't upgrade because ... " rhetorics applied)
 
user142019
11:16 PM
Incredibly useless.
 
@ThePhD You don't even use boost now.
 
@JerryCoffin But indecent code wasn't
 
user142019
clis
 
I have teeth
 
11:16 PM
does anyone of you know an EU-based company that works in MMOs?
 
they eat things
 
Also, arararahrsghdfklhdh. auto p = make_shared<circle>( 42 );
 
user142019
@DeadMG me too.
 
I hate shared_ptr with a passion, mostly because of the misuse examples you see everywhere.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hey, I came in at the perfect time. It's not like boost is mandatory with C++11, despite shitty MSVC support.
 
11:17 PM
@ThePhD huh. the MSVC support is excellent (or you mean, MSVC support of c++11)
 
user142019
BUT UNIQUE_PTR CANNOT BE COPIED SO YOU MUST USE SHARED_PTR WHEN YOU WANT TO STORE IN COLLECTION OR RETURN FROM FUNCTION
 
@sehe For C++0x? o_O
 
@sehe True -- but the point here is that this isn't nearly so much about the C++ being modern as simply decently written (though, admittedly, given how bad a lot of older C++ is, equating the two isn't all that far off).
 
@ThePhD Nah. Boost support for MSVC, obviously
 
> For high efficiency and power, especially on devices that have limited hardware, nothing beats modern C++.
i chuckled slightly
 
11:18 PM
@sehe Ah. Well yeah, boost is Boss like that.
 
@JerryCoffin Exactly.
 
@NolwennLeGuen I thought Lisp was the Hardware Geek's goto?
 
@JerryCoffin And the 'high road' in C++ used to be hard for a variety of reasons: Bad library APIs, bas template support making generic abstractions unfeasible and boost not widely accepted.
I'd say the tipping point for 'market-wide' adoption of 'decent modern' C++ was TR1
 
@sehe You mean MSVC6?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes That. But also VS2003
 
11:21 PM
Given that the articles in question are from Microsoft, I think there may be some truth in your argument.
 
@sehe This does make the session on "how to convince your colleagues" (or whatever they called it) in C++ and beyond fairly relevant I guess -- I hadn't really considered it, but until this discussion, it seems pretty out of place at an otherwise (mostly) technically-oriented conference.
 
Ell
I wonder what c++ platform share is like
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Wait. TR1 wasn't published, I think, before VS2005? Perhaps in a SP or sumtin? (disclaimer: I had a few years without C++ during that period)
 
user142019
@Ell Computers: 100%.
 
const T(&varr)[2] <--- Every since I learned how to do this, I've been doing it everywhere.
 
Ell
11:22 PM
:L what about microwaves?
 
@Ell C. Lisp?
 
@ThePhD We already know you suck, no need to reiterate it :P
 
user142019
If C++ is used in microwaves it needs some way to emulate the abstract machine.
 
user142019
IOW: they have microprocessors and memory. That count's as "computer" IMO. :P
 
@JerryCoffin Precisely. I personally ripped some bits and pieces from boost in that AIX/Win job (my penultimate C++ gig)
 
11:23 PM
@sehe Just to add to the confusion: there were actually two separate documents, both named "TR1".
 
@sehe AIX?
 
I don't really care. I was pointing at the 'trend'. The tipping point was the concept of TR1
@ThePhD google it
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh come on, that's the ultimate way to get constant arrays by reference. :c
 
@ThePhD disagree. template alias FTW
 
11:24 PM
@sehe You work here on this?:
AIX (Advanced Interactive eXecutive, pronounced ) is a series of proprietary Unix operating systems developed and sold by IBM for several of its computer platforms. Originally released for the IBM 6150 RISC workstation, AIX now supports or has supported a wide variety of hardware platforms, including the IBM RS/6000 series and later IBM POWER and PowerPC-based systems, IBM System i, System/370 mainframes, PS/2 personal computers, and the Apple Network Server. AIX is based on UNIX System V with 4.3BSD-compatible extensions. It is one of four commercial operating systems that are pre...
 
@ThePhD no. AIX is an OS. You don't work at Microsoft because you use Windows, do you
Oh right. Edited
 
Lulz. Sorry.
Wow.
That's pretty boss though.
Man why can't I do boss things? :C
 
@ThePhD Very much so. 5.2 and 5.3, 32bit and 64bit. I also introduced gcc, but that wasn't ABI compatible with xlC++ (sadly)
 
@sehe Uh. How does that work?
 
@ThePhD You can
 
11:25 PM
std::array. Just sayin'
 
@ThePhD I believe it's been posted before. Also see flamingdangerzone.com/cxx11/2012/05/29/type-traits-galore.html
Fixed link
 
Definitely wrong.
You want either the first or the second.
 
@ThePhD I haven't used it much, but in my (to reemphasize, limited) experience, it didn't jump out as obviously better than other OSes. Quite a bit of what sounded really cool on paper didn't turn out so impressive in real use.
 
That's rather typical, specially back then.
 
Psst. 4 years ago!
@JerryCoffin Yup. Lag behind 'modern' OS-es in my experience. Unlike, e.g. (Open)Solaris which does have some lure (did? Oracle might be death to it)
 
11:29 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't have template aliases, so I can't do that shininess.
But, it does look nice.
 
3 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
std::array. Just sayin'
 
Maybe I can submit a well-writtne Bug Report to Stephen Lavajev and get him to write in support for it in the compiler...
Will a std::array invoke a copy, or just assume the memory in-place?
 
Brittne Stroustrup, the sister
 
@sehe Solaris still clearly has some cool stuff, but you seem to be right: since Oracle got it (and somewhat before) it seems to be somewhat stagnant, even at best.
 
user142019
@sehe BS
 
11:31 PM
@ThePhD Do you know the answer for that for C arrays?
 
You'd think Oracle should have the required dev power (seeing what they do for linux). But... OpenSolaris was 'killed' anyway
@Zoidberg Benefit Shop
 
@ThePhD At least AFAIK, STL works primarily on the library, not the compiler proper.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Uh. Make a copy, unless you do it by reference (with the ugly thing I did) or by pointer and size.
@JerryCoffin Awww. :c Well, maybe we can have him bug someone internally.
Bug Report: Bug someone, STL!
 
user142019
@sehe bord soep
 
@ThePhD If I was going to submit to a specific Microsofty, I think it would probably be to Raymond Chen.
 
11:32 PM
While I was on vacation, @infoq posted my @strangeloop_stl session: How the Ancient Greeks Invented Modern Programming. http://buff.ly/UkZ2JI
 
buff.ly
Man, these shortened url names are getting interesting.
 
...
 
Ell
Hi guise
I need entertsining
 
This one is funny because of the amount of time it took me to explain it to my non-programming friends. ("I've got a great joke--but first, a quick lesson on transmission protocols.") — Michael Myers Jun 16 '09 at 15:28
@Ell Are you drunk?
 
Ell
Nope :/
Not often enough anyway
I don't often get drunk
 
11:34 PM
Plonk impending
 
Can you have a Plonk that RAII's after a certain amount of time?
 
No hatin' on drunkchat
 
@ThePhD that's not RAII. That's expiration
 
Ell
I'm not drunk, but seriously I feel so unsatisfied and bored right now, I have no idea why. Do yoi guys ever get bored?
 
@Ell Of course.
 
Ell
11:36 PM
I usually have things to do, obviously little periods of boredom but never anyrhibg like this
 
@sehe I dunno. Does it, though?
 
@ThePhD No
 
Aww. :c
If you forget to unplonk someone, you could miss greatness.
 
No, you usually don't
 
@CatPlusPlus ^ dat. And you don't forget
 
11:39 PM
Hey git users how to rebase from the very beginning (or: what's the label for null revision)
 
Ell
I only ever plonked zoidberg
 
I hate Objective C even more than Haskell @Zoidberg
 
It's not hard to hate Obj-C, because it has no redeeming qualities whatsoever
 
Ell
So he could get some work done :L turns out it didnt work at all IIRC
 
Haskell you're just bad at
 
11:40 PM
@CatPlusPlus, why did they even created such a language?
 
Which one?
 
@Ell He was busy doing his peer assassinations, IIRC
 
Wasn't C++ cool enough? (I'm referring to Obj C)
 
Objectionable C
 
Obj-C appeared around the same time as C++
 
@CatPlusPlus Oooh. I think you need to make a graft for that.
 
Also it's based on Smalltalk
 
Also, why would you want that?
Also, why the fuck do I know grafts exist.
 
I want to change commit author on every commit
 
@Jeffrey Objective C is actually about the same age as C++. For years, however, it had the tiny niche it deserved. Then Apple came along and (basically) said to program for iOS or OS X, you had no choice but to use it. The hardware sold well, so Objective C suddenly became a lot more "popular" (I.e., a lot more people hate it).
 
11:43 PM
@CatPlusPlus graft and filter-branch to 'cast in stone'
 
Ell
I wonder why they used that language
 
@CatPlusPlus there's no null revision, there's only a null tree object. Lemme get the link...
 
Because they stole NeXTSTEP
 
@JerryCoffin, this is so stupid.
 
Or some predecessor of that I don't know
@sehe Then what's before first commmit
 
11:44 PM
21
A: Change first commit of project with git?

VonCAs mentioned in the Git FAQ (and this SO question), the idea is: Create new temporary branch Rewind it to the commit you want to change using git reset --hard Change that commit (it would be top of current HEAD, and you can modify the content of any file) Rebase branch on top of changed commit...

 
Jesus
I'll just edit fucking internals myself
 
@CatPlusPlus Nothing. You have to graft something there.
 
@CatPlusPlus In this case, they were more honest than usual about it: they bought NeXTSTEP.
 
Wait, no, that'll change IDs
 
@CatPlusPlus Authors are SHA1ed.
 
11:45 PM
Yeah
hg convert from git to git!
 
well, that was not much fun - getting *ucked by gcc's partial implementation of std::regex - guess that means back to boost...
 
@CatPlusPlus nothing. is the point. I was wrong, there can only be empty objects, not even empty trees (dirs aren't versions)
 
You should look at that sentence and laugh uncontrollably
 
@kfmfe04 Poor thing. You should have asked here.
 
@CatPlusPlus Then, filter-branch should do what you want, too. Or a fast-export/fast-import
 
11:47 PM
Aw, hg convert can't convert to git
 
@CatPlusPlus I disagree -- it should be carefully controlled (so you can sustain it longer).
 
@CatPlusPlus fast-export again. it's the lingua franca of DVCS-es
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes you're right - I hesitated because regex seemed "too basic" to ask about. time_lost->lesson_learned
time to get some breakfast and then back to clean up the regex mess...
 
@kfmfe04 I must admit I have found about missing regex support the hard way myself. Just why it doesn't fail early, or just omit the headers is beyond me. I mean, it's a no-brainer to not ship broken libraries, right
 
@sehe aye: just a throw would've been nice - quiet failures are absolutely the worst kind
 
11:49 PM
Apparently there is already code depending on them. Go figure.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes no shit. they could still make it fail loudly
 
Ell
Seriously?
 
It's funny that this is easier to do in Mercurial which hates history editing than git which loves history editing
 
which probably has to do with the fact that GIT loves Paranoia too
Merkle Trees are hard to tamper with, by design
 
Paranoia is cool.
 
Ell
11:53 PM
Phil colins is.copl
 
This really would be solved by the existence of implicit null revision
 
I'd like to play that again sometime.
 
yeah. I love git. And zfs for that
@Ell plonk
 
Ell
Argh chat, y u no let me edit?
 
@Ell Phil Collins is copulating?
 
Ell
11:54 PM
Who knows :P
 
But I guess simple solutions don't fit git
 
Ell
@sehe am I that bad?
 
@sehe Btrfs
 
@Mechanicalsnail I'll wait until it works well enough to compete (ftr, I'm running root on Btrfs, and I have a hunch it is the cause of my slow linux operation since that change. But I also changed to mint, so I'll have my next Debian+XFCE on btrfs as well just for checks)
 
btrfs a.k.a. we'll never get stable
Does it still eat files? :v
 
11:56 PM
it does when I try to work with volumes, snapshots. But that's probably me just me
Confirming how complicated/un-userfriendly it appears
 
You mean all those killer features
 
lol, "killer" features.
 
@sehe Btrfs syncs are slow.
 
Oof.
The entire SIMD setup for DirectX math is implicitly stack-based.
 
@Mechanicalsnail Okay. That matches the symptoms (any apt-get operation is very slow)
 
11:58 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Somebody suggested a new name for Reiser4 a while ago:
KillerFS
 
Everything returns by value, no constructors, bleh.
 
@Mechanicalsnail That joke.
 
It's like using C.
 
It was MurderFS and it was very very very long time ago
 

« first day (814 days earlier)      last day (4149 days later) »