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6:03 PM
Just purchased Visual Studio 2012 Ultimate!
 
If you have too much money, you can give it to me.
3
 
@CatPlusPlus I got a partner discount
 
@Xeo looks fine to me, I guess I also don't understand lambdas.
 
For being an employee at a Microsoft partner company.
Why do they only have 32-bit Visual Studio?
 
user1182183
yay again banned on stupid dictator forums lol :p
 
6:05 PM
@Xeo question seems to really be about std::function, and really has nothing to do with lambdas.
 
Xeo
yep
 
@GamErix What.
 
Xeo
@MooingDuck Lambdas aren't anything special
 
@Xeo right
 
Xeo
they're just a shorthand for local function objects
 
user1182183
6:06 PM
@CatPlusPlus Just saying lol, had to write something here...
 
user1182183
oh and
 
user1182183
no-one knows how to use a sitecom WL-341 router with Wifi to extend my other WiFi AP?
 
Ahhh. Good old function<T> objects.
 
Lambdas are not function<T>.
@GamErix Use repeater instead.
 
user1182183
@CatPlusPlus I hate spending money :'( but if I need to then I have to... :/
 
user1182183
6:07 PM
with my 80 to 150 euros a month I can't spend rly much lol
 
@CatPlusPlus Did I ever say they were?
Oh jeeze. Am I starting to sound like a politician?
 
how many people here have seen std::bad_array_new_length? I hadn't until I wrote an answer about the std exceptions, and missed that one.
 
any SSE experts here?
 
Fuck this. Why do I have text encoding mismatches within my own applications.
 
user1182183
6:10 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes encoding mismatch, what's that ; o
 
@GamErix I have text in one encoding and there's a component interpreting it as another one.
 
user1182183
aaaa UTF-8 & unicode etc
 
For no reason, other than general suckage of people.
 
user1182183
kinda sucks.
 
Unicode is not an encoding.
 
user1182183
6:11 PM
ASCII & UTF then
 
I also have an issue with input methods on Macs.
 
it's funny that in the debate "should you set a pointer to null after deleting", both sides accuse the other of merely hiding errors
@GamErix UTF is also not an encoding
 
gerkhaelkhreh.-
 
user1182183
@MooingDuck UTF-*... srsly, then about what encodings we are talking? ; o
 
Finally can get rid of my old RaceCar.
(someone thought RC meant racecar)
 
6:13 PM
@nightcracker I am sure mysticial can answer your question
 
yeah he probably could
I just started to learn SSE yesterday
very interesting
 
@GamErix which UTF encodings? I know of eight of the top of my head, one of which is never used, and three others are not used for persistent data.
 
user1182183
with just UTF i meant all of them ? xD UTF-16, UTF-8
 
@GamErix UCS-2?
 
user1182183
@MooingDuck don't know that one ;x
 
6:14 PM
@GamErix UTF7? UTF32LE?
 
user1182183
@MooingDuck If they are encodings and we are discussing this shit,... then yes xD
 
@nightcracker yeah, definitely interesting. but he will probably tell you that you do something wrong if you are trying to extract values out of a SSE vector.
 
@GamErix UCS2 is outdated. It's the "deprecated" version of UTF16BE IIRC
 
user1182183
@MooingDuck :P
 
@GamErix oooh! UTF-EBCDIC and GB 18030!
 
user1182183
6:16 PM
Well people created many standarts, the problem is, when to use which and the conversions between them PFff.
 
UCS2 and UCS4 are ISO encodings.
 
user1182183
Just like kWh, damn who came up with this? If they used MegaWatts it would be good lol
 
@GamErix The problem is crap APIs that care about those issues.
 
@bamboon: not really. This function specifically is put into SSE to finally put an end to the ftol problem. It only operates on the lowest element in the SSE vector, and the intrinsic function itself returns only one integer.
 
@nightcracker So what's the point of using SSE then?
 
user1182183
6:18 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I kinda feel in heaven when scripting in PAWN because all text is just 4byte integers so there won't be any problem interpreting them, one integer = one character, simply as that, ofcourse.. it is waste of much space. I would care for that space if I was programming a micro controller...
 
The ftol problem being that processors could never truncate an integer fast, except using the fistp instruction, which depends on the rounding mode. And the rounding mode isn't really something you can rely on
 
@CatPlusPlus I can't find a source to validate that
 
ISO 10646
 
@GamErix apperently UTF-5 and UTF-6 were also proposed, and UTF-1 never gained acceptance. UTF-9 and UTF-18 were not intended for practical use.
 
@Mysticial: well, fast truncating :) (not that I'm using it just for this, but it's nice to have)
 
6:20 PM
@GamErix The size doesn't say anything about encoding, and it's not that simple.
 
user1182183
@CatPlusPlus no it doesn't but at least I can keep up with the community-wide encoding standart so there won't be any scripting problems with such stuff, we just use ASCII and UTF-8 in pawn, nothing more, nothing complex, works great, easy as hell.
 
what exactly does ftol do? I'm surprisingly having trouble googling a good link.
 
It's easy until it blows up.
 
@Mysticial convert float to int
or long
 
@MooingDuck UTF-9 and UTF18 are April Fool's jokes.
 
user1182183
6:21 PM
@CatPlusPlus when would it blow up lol?
 
@CatPlusPlus "UCS-2 is obsolete terminology which refers to a Unicode implementation up to Unicode 1.1. UCS-2 does not define a distinct data format..." unicode.org/faq/basic_q.html#14
 
user1182183
if starts with checking if it's an UTF-8 integer array, if not it switches to ASCII and well.. I can kinda assure everyone that this won't blow up, until you create something that's nor ASCII nor UTF-8
 
@Mysticial: ftol -> float to long conversion
 
user1182183
But hey, why did they invent string formatting functions? :P
 
@Mysticial: especially games have been known to spend 20% of their execution time on the Visual Studio function _ftol
 
6:23 PM
@GamErix Guess what, there are things not ASCII nor UTF-8 out there in the world.
 
@GamErix how can you be certain it's utf-8 vs a codepage
 
@nightcracker Ah, yes, there's an SSE instruction to do that.
 
@Mysticial: reason was, _ftol uses the fistp instruction to truncate the float
 
You can't check if it's UTF-8.
 
user1182183
6:24 PM
@MooingDuck please explain codepage? ; p
 
@Mysticial: but that was dependant on the rounding mode, and as such IT SET THE ROUNDING MODE FOR EVERY TRUNCATION
 
@GamErix codepages are the language-specific encodings used by microsoft prior to unicode. Each language has a "codepage" that describes the characters 128-255. (ish, leaving out tons of details)
 
@GamErix There's no way to distinguish with certainty between Latin-1 text and UTF-8 text.
 
@StackedCrooked No, you can do side effects and stuff without understanding Monads first :)
 
@Mysticial: my software IEEE754 ftol function blew it out of the water
 
user1182183
6:24 PM
just a sec need to find something ;X
 
@Mysticial: which on it's turn got blewn out of the water by the SSE version I wrote
 
@nightcracker If you have SSE4.1, you can round it first. Then truncate it using the default rounding mode.
 
@nightcracker anyway, what's the question? Why not just use the appropriate SSE intrinsic?
 
Using SSE1 I can immediately truncate to an integer perfectly fine
@Mysticial: which made me stumble on this question: stackoverflow.com/questions/12202801/…
 
@CatPlusPlus not and be completely certain, but if there's non-ASCII characters, it's not to hard to be relatively certain.
 
user1182183
6:25 PM
 
lunchtime!
 
@jalf: was just giving some background :)
 
user1182183
193.
/* UTF-8 mode was switched just off, which means that non-conforming

194.
* UTF-8 codes were found, which means in turn that the string is

195.
* probably not intended as UTF-8; start over again

196.
*/
 
user1182183
:P
 
@nightcracker Looks to me like the only reason for the movss is that compilers generally kind of suck at understanding SSE intrinsics
 
6:27 PM
@GamErix So?
 
user1182183
@R.MartinhoFernandes well, at least it can check if a character sequence is valid UTF-8, if not, we (community) know it's ASCII
 
in the second version, you explicitly tell it to load up a complete SSE register, so it generates a movssto load data into it. In the first one, it's able to figure out that it can just use a memory location as operand for the conversion function
 
user1182183
and UTF-8 works very well with many languages so we don't need other encodings
 
@GamErix So you're saying that the way to solve the problem is to go under a rock. Right.
 
user1182183
@R.MartinhoFernandes I assume? :$
 
user1182183
6:29 PM
<brainfuck>
 
@nightcracker Do you want a formal answer from me, or is my comment good enough?
 
user1182183
does the world need more than UTF-8? ; o seems UTF-8 is enough or not ? ;p
 
@Mysticial: the thing I'm wondering is why can't it figure it out using _mm_set_ss (which only sets the bottom element), but it CAN figure it out using _mm_set1_ps (which sets all elements)
 
@GamErix Yes.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I only know two JVM languages so far :)
 
6:30 PM
I think the solution is to stop thinking about encodings.
 
user1182183
@R.MartinhoFernandes hah true
 
user1182183
I'm already braincked.
 
I'm not saying to get rid of them, but to stop obsessing with them everywhere.
 
@nightcracker because it sucks. There isn't a good reason, the compiler just failed at optimizing your code
 
They only matter at boundaries. Which is why I'm pissed that I have issues within my application.
 
6:31 PM
It's kind of meaningless to ask why it failed
 
@nightcracker That's cause it's pulling it directly from the stack...
 
ok
well mysticial
 
Ell
I want a string class where I don't have to think about encodings
 
if you want free rep you can post your comment as an answer
 
user1182183
compuphase.com/mp3player_en.htm I want that but wtf 260 euros for a controller!! AH hate that :/
 
6:33 PM
@nightcracker I think I know what's going on. It's a bit more complicated than that. But I'm not sure if I can finish the answer before my next class. Hang on.
 
@nightcracker Interesting example though. Thanks for posting it :)
 
@jalf: np
@jalf: I always tend to stumble in these kind of things
while learning stuff
 
@nightcracker You may want to talk to @Mysticial
 
@FredOverflow: what do you mean? I have been.
 
@nightcracker Just browsing messages from old to new, sometimes I post outdated stuff, just ignore it ;)
 
6:35 PM
Actually, no I don't know what's going on...
 
@Ell bitbucket.org/martinhofernandes/ogonek/src/default/include/… ;) (probably still buggy) (bug reports welcome)
 
I have a few guesses, but absolutely no evidence to back it up...
 
I suspect it might be because _mm_set1_ps doesn't correspond to an actual SSE instruction, the compiler fakes it, which implies that it has to have a more accurate understanding of its semantics than the intrinsics it can just translate blindly instruction for instruction
 
@jalf That's exactly what I'm suspecting too.
_mm_set_ss maps directly to movss. Current compilers don't try to optimize SSE anything beyond DCE, CSE, and LICM.
 
kind of silly, but it seems to fit what we're seeing
 
6:39 PM
@Mysticial what is DCE, CSE and LICM? ;)
 
Dead Code Elimination, Common Subexpression Elimination, Loop Invariant Code Motion
they're all googleable
I've seen ICC perform very basic Strength Reduction on SSE. But nothing spectacular like turning multiplies in to shifts.
 
@Mysticial ah indeed, that's basic stuff. just fancy wording
 
@bamboon Those are the formal terms. Nobody spells them out since there are acronyms.
 
@bamboon Welcome to computer science.
 
Sometimes I use acronyms and I don’t even know what they mean.
 
6:43 PM
like LOL?
 
I do know what LOL means. :P
 
It took be a while before I realized what a MILF was... I was kinda embarrassed.
 
LOL
 
got milf?
 
and then there's GMILF
 
6:44 PM
g = grand? shudder...
 
and then there are the anime terms...
 
Does AAA stand for anything?
 
like DFC... I was embarrassed that I didn't know that one when it came up in a conversation...
@FredOverflow Aside from the company, I dunno.
 
@Mysticial And I thought you would bring up the x86 instruction aaa :)
 
Ell
@FredOverflow Anti Aircraft something. maybe :L
@Mysticial DFC?
 
6:46 PM
I mean AAA as in "AAA movie/game/whatever".
 
@Ell Delicious Flat Chest
 
Ell
ahh okay
 
@Mysticial In what context would you say that? :)
 
@FredOverflow loli characters
 
loli?
 
6:47 PM
"Underdeveloped" female characters
 
@FredOverflow Anonymous Alcoholic Assholes.
, also romanised as lolikon or rorikon, is a Japanese portmanteau of the phrase "Lolita complex". In Japan, the term describes an attraction to underage girls (whether prepubescent, pubescent, or post-pubescent) or an individual with such an attraction. It is also commonly used when referring to lolicon manga or lolicon anime, a genre of manga and anime wherein childlike female characters are often depicted in an "erotic-cute" manner (also known as ero kawaii), in an art style reminiscent of the shōjo manga (girls' comics) style. Outside Japan, "lolicon" is in less common usage and usua...
 
Automatic Asshole Assassination
 
And one of the main features of a lolita is a DFC.
That's how you'd use that term.
 
I don't know, I prefer real women :)
 
6:52 PM
So do I. But Japan is weird. :)
brb, gotta head to class
 
Ell
meh I can't understand the appeal of FCs
 
Let's hope this is worth my time.
 
It wasn't worth my time.
 
Java oddity: Java is being used.
 
7:03 PM
@StackedCrooked You seriously didn't know that term?
 
I don't see how you would want to know that term.
 
Nope.
 
@CatPlusPlus Your nemesis kidnaps you and puts you in an elaborate death trap that can only be deactivated by answering the question "What does DFC stand for?"
 
I'd rather die than know anything about this shit.
 
7:11 PM
> while looking at questionable images on the internet of underaged girls
Well, well.
@CatPlusPlus Indeed, that's odd.
 
Ell
is it child porn if its anime?
 
@Xeo Did you know what a DFC is?
 
Xeo
7:31 PM
Obviously
@Ell No, that's known as loli porn :P
Also, DFC doesn't just apply to little girls
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus Well now that you know, what will you do?
 
I'm going to go away and come back when you're done talking about this because fuck.
 
Xeo
lol
 
@Xeo He'll kidnap his nemesis and put him in an elaborate death trap that can only...
 
Xeo
7:33 PM
heh
 
does anyone by any chance knows a way to enable -fomit-frame-pointer for just one function?
 
@nightcracker Put it on its own TU?
 
TU=???
 
@nightcracker Don't do that.
 
7:34 PM
something with unit I presume
 
Everyone will hate you.
 
the function in question comes down to one assembly instruction
you really want to trace that?
 
@nightcracker So, hope for inlining?
 
Don't use FPO.
Never ever ever ever.
 
more TLA's I don't know
@R.MartinhoFernandes: of course, stupid me
 
7:36 PM
@nightcracker Translation unit.
 
Xeo
@Mysticial Well, I not only like girls with big boobs. Depending on the whole package, small boobs also look nice
 
@Xeo Should I star that? :P
 
Xeo
Do it if you want to
How did this DFC thing even start here?
 
@Xeo From SSE. I'm serious.
 
Xeo
wat.
 
7:39 PM
@nightcracker's SSE question turned into DFC.
 
MORE TLA'S I don't know
 
Xeo
Do I or do I not want to know how that happened...
 
so far, FPO, DFC
 
@nightcracker scroll up, and thou shalt be enlightened
 
Xeo
7:42 PM
@Mysticial Okay, so please just say it spawned from a discussion on acronyms :P
 
Frame Pointer Omission. It's not that hard to deduce. ._.
 
I bet more people know what DFC is than FPO.
 
@Xeo Not as funny.
@R.MartinhoFernandes: +1 on your comment (that should be an answer). You must read minds! — Howard Hinnant 18 secs ago
 
7:59 PM
I hear good things about Python as a first language. What do you guys think about that?
 
It is.
 
I completely agree.
At least it forces you to indent your code. :p
 
Which reminds me, I still haven't got a Python book. It seems there is no canonical one?
 
I do not know of any canonical one.
But you can learn Python in less than half a week.
Except for its standard library, which would take about a gazillion years.
 
There's an execv in Windows?
 
8:06 PM
How would I in a nice way create the interface, object.x += 0.5f; and object.y = 0.3; object.rotate_x += 3.0f etc. when this corresponds to matrix operations? One way would be to create 3 different structs for each axis and transformation. But maybe there is a nicer way?
 
@FireRain I am considering getting this one
 
8:17 PM
@FredOverflow I cannot recommend it, since I did not read it.
My opinion is nil.
 
Currently not available in Germany, and takes several weeks to ship from UK :(
 
@FireRain Has that ever stopped anyone?
@FredOverflow weeks?
 
> Usually dispatched within 6 to 12 days.
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's not super available no amazon.co.uk either.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I am just saying that I cannot make any recommendations.
Does not mean I unrecommend it.
 
I also need to learn Perl. Apparently, the Camel book is the canonical Perl book.
 
8:22 PM
That is where Perl got its logo from. :)
 
@FredOverflow Start by learning how to misspell it.
:P
 
stupid auto-correcting brian :)
 
brain
 
That was on purpose!
 
Oh.
I am bad at such things xD
 
8:23 PM
I thought nobody would notice.
Okay, so Python and Perl... any other languages worth learning? What about PHP? :)
 
PHP is horrible.
 
Perl is horrible too.
 
It is better than PHP.
Python is still better, though.
 
@FredOverflow Learn Wide.
:P
 
C++ is also nice.
And Haskell is awesome.
 
8:25 PM
@FredOverflow Learn F#.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I doubt there's a book about Wide :)
 
Never heard of Wide.
Google does not yield any results, either.
 
@FireRain I already have 9 books on C++. (Where did the other one go? I always thought I had 10.)
 
@FireRain It doesn't exist (yet? ever?). It's being designed by one of the regulars here. wide-language.com
 
@FredOverflow I have a few.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ah nice.
 
8:27 PM
@FredOverflow I only have two.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Effective C++ and the Josuttis book?
 
I have Exceptional C++ and C++ Coding Standards: 101 Rules, Guidelines, and Best Practices.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Is that available for Linux?
 
@FredOverflow C++ Templates and C++ Concurrency in Action.
@FredOverflow Think so.
 
@FireRain I always thought about buying the Coding Standards book, but since I don't do projects in C++ involving more than one person (me), I never saw the point.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Anything spectacular in F# compared to Scala/Haskell?
@FireRain I have at least three Haskell books, that ought to be enough :)
 
8:30 PM
@FredOverflow I have Learn You a Haskell in EPUB format.
 
@FireRain Can you drink a virtual beer in an EPUB?
 
If you EPUB reader supports JavaScript, yes.
EPUB files contain XHTML pages, anyway.
Anyway, I have to sleep.
Tomorrow will be a long day.
See you guys.
 
I love you too, guys :p
4 hours ago, by WTP'--
@KonradRudolph is awesome.
 
8:47 PM
 
@FredOverflow Based on ML/CAML/OCAML and runs on CLI. That's pretty much what's good and bad about it.
 
Nov 1 '11 at 20:29, by FredOverflow
> Managers kind of like [Java], because it looks like you're getting a lot done.
Nov 1 '11 at 20:30, by FredOverflow
> You can eat a one pound steak, or you can eat 100 pounds of shoe leather, and you feel a greater sense of accomplishment after the shoe leather, but you know, maybe there are some downsides.
still awesome :)
 
@Fred Circle jerk with a circumference of 1?
 
@KonradRudolph What on earth are you talking about?
 
ah nothing, just a desperate attempt at being funny ;)
 
Ell
8:53 PM
"Nobody should call themselves a professional if they only knew one language." hmm
 
@Ell Do you only know one language? :)
 
Ell
I know at least 2 :L
but I don't call myself a professional
 
@Ell So you don't make money with programming?
 
Ell
No, not yet, hopefully when I'm older :)
or maybe soon if I get a job :D I have dropped my CV into a place
so fingers crossed
 
@Ell hopefully not the bin? ;)
 
Ell
9:01 PM
haha indeed
 
damn, is there any C++-y getopt implementation?
wait, I’m stupid
 
Xeo
lol
 
or not
Boost.ProgramOptions crashes on invalid input. That’s not even remotely funny
and the API is fucking convoluted
 
I didn't know you could accept an answer, change your mind and then accept a different answer.
 
I’m tempted to say “of course” but what can ever be taken for granted in today’s UIs?
 
9:16 PM
Lol, now the person goes back and accepts the original answer. Doh. I lose my 15 points.
At least he could upvote my answer.
 
@KonradRudolph You might want to look at GetOpt. Much closer to getopt, but at least somewhat C++y nonetheless.
 
@JerryCoffin To be honest … no. I’m looking for something akin to the Python API
but oh well, Boost will do
 
@Ell Nobody should call himself a programmer (professional or otherwise) if he knows only one language. It's nearly impossible to learn actual programming until you know enough different languages to see the underlying concepts separate from the individual language.
 
heyho let's go =D
 
shoot them in the back now
 
9:26 PM
?
 
ah...
never heard that song before xD
 
I don't think that the note at 3.4.1/3 is relevant, because bar is the postfix-expression in a function call expression (not having a function as operand, but eventually calling one!). The note says that 3.4.2 does not change the syntactic meaning of "x(y)" - if it is a function call, it stays a function call disregarding of what 3.4.2 decides to do. — Johannes Schaub - litb 3 mins ago
hello folks
 
hey
 
9:36 PM
someone said yesterday "Now it's obvious to me why the Apple apple has only been bitten once."
 
@FredOverflow Is he wearing a Reichskreuz (no idea what that’s called)!?!
 
@KonradRudolph Dunno, probably. He likes to collect stuff like that.
 
wtf, he’s got an SS eagle on his guitar
 
if I "@address" someone in a comment and then delete the comment will he notify it?
 
@WTP'-- sooo. who witnessed the flagging? Did that result in mod contact?
 
9:41 PM
@KonradRudolph i just did that to you
i wonder whether you notified
 
I once had great respect for Herb Sutter. Then I started using C++/CLI.
 
@sehe i did this to you too
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb Nope, apparently not. Did you do it in a comment for which I’ll be notified in the first place, though?
normally I do get notifies for deleted comments
 
@KonradRudolph yes
 
which is totally annoying, let me tell you
 
9:42 PM
it was in a thread that you participated in
 
guys what category do stuff like ios::app fall under?
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil The same as when you asked this morning.
 
@JerryCoffin I wasnt here this morning, First Login Today
 
9:52 PM
@MohamedAhmedNabil "read the documentation" category ?
 
@sehe I just want to know what are they so i can search for them in a C++ refrence. Just the name
 
Xeo
@MohamedAhmedNabil search for "ios::app"?
 
@Xeo did that and found nothing
 
Xeo
then try ios_base::app
 
@Cicada oh hey, we've got a friendly roach visiting. How's life?
 
Xeo
@MohamedAhmedNabil don't use cplusplus.com
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil I don't know what timezone you're in, but the same as the last time you asked in any case.
yesterday, by Mohamed Ahmed Nabil
What category do stuff like ios::app and ios::out fall under?
 
@FredOverflow alcoholics anonymous?
 
@Xeo why not
 
9:59 PM
@MohamedAhmedNabil it's not so good. Sometimes even bad. The examples are particularly poor
 

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