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1:00 AM
I did see Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood in quite a short time though. I was sick at the time and couldn't do much more than watching anime all day.
 
Youre the one spitting out all the possible translations of "Kami"! :P
 
I learned that from my Japanese classes :)
 
@StackedCrooked o_O
@StackedCrooked Japanese classes you say o_O
 
Er .. didn't I mention that :D
 
I watched the original fullmetal instead of brotherhood ... kinda annoying.
 
1:01 AM
I mentioned that tonight to someone. I thought it was you.
 
user868935
すごい!
 
I'm currently in my 3rd year of Japanese classes.
@ChocoMan そうですね。
 
Shiny, i was thinking of teaching Japanese myself, it sounds pretty pewpew, but i can't quite seem to find the time for it.
 
user868935
ええ、そうです。
 
user868935
i still have one more class before I get my AA in Japanese
 
1:03 AM
Loung<bad anime>
 
@ScarletAmaranth I was jobless at the time I started my classes. I had been watching anime all day for weeks and started to feel bad about that. So I figured that by taking classes I could somehow transform it into something useful.
@ChocoMan What is AA?
 
@StackedCrooked I wonder whether it would help me to learn japanese faster since i've seen hundreds if not thousands of hours of anime. (If i started learning now that is.)
 
user868935
@StackedCrooked Associates degree
 
@ScarletAmaranth It helps, but not as much as you'd expect.
 
user868935
@ScarletAmaranth dido what StackedCrooked said.
 
1:06 AM
@ChocoMan Nice. So that means you have a fairly good grasp on the language by now.
 
@StackedCrooked I've got a friend who actually taught himself japanese... to an extent where he can lead a normal conversation in Japanese ...
 
user868935
@StackedCrooked I'm pretty handy with it, but don't expect me to read a newspaper lol
 
@ScarletAmaranth Some people can do that. Unfortunately, I can't :(
 
@StackedCrooked Haha, i tend to be able to study everything i need on my own. Programming, English, German, Guitar, Chess ...
 
@ScarletAmaranth that seems like a really useful skill.
 
user868935
1:08 AM
@ScarletAmarant Speaking Japanese is like listening to Yoda talk. If you can talk like Yoda, you can learn lol
 
I did learn magic by myself. You know card tricks and coin tricks. I got quite good at it.
 
@StackedCrooked Not really, i feel like everyone around me in college is an idiot now ... but come to think of it, the level of education available here in Slovakia is pretty low :) I usually end up explaining stuff to my lecturer who has a sodding Phd ...
 
user868935
@ScarletAmaranth "I have a computer" would be written as "I computer have" in japanese lol
 
@ChocoMan Huh, what if there's a modal verb involved ?
 
user868935
@ScarletAmaranth give me an example
 
1:11 AM
I have to talk. You must go.
Where the modal word pushes the verb away.
Thou shalt be garfunkled.
 
@ScarletAmaranth Chigaku no hito o hanasu ga aru. Dette kudasai. (Doesn't sound very friendly.)
 
user868935
ikinasai is impolite too
 
What does it mean ?
 
hey
 
@ChocoMan Anyway, "I computer have" -> What if i had a modal verb there ? I want to have ac omputer ... ?
 
1:14 AM
which ide do you guys use for c++ ?
 
Text editor and a compiler :P
 
user868935
@ScarletAmaranth I computer want
 
which text editor?
no 'smart' editor?
 
@ChocoMan Aaand " I should go there. " ?
 
@ScarletAmaranth Compyuuta ga hoshii desu. => I want to have a computer.
 
1:17 AM
Oh, you might know the answer! How come i sometimes hear them say something that sounds like a japanese-accented English. Say, i can literally hear: "Bado Timingo" (Bad timing)
 
user868935
watashi wa "I" konpyuutaa o"computer" hoshii (to want an object) desu (verb copula such as "is")
 
@ScarletAmaranth Are ni iku hou ga iin desu => It would be better for me to go there.
 
@DavidFrank Xcode. Sometimes VS2010.
 
@ChocoMan What's the difference between Watashi wa and "Ore wa" (can't type it well :P) ? Isn't ore wa "I" too ?
 
user868935
@ScarletAmaranth if the word sounds like an english word, its because they borrowed it. Computer programmer is said and spelled "konpyuutaa puroguramaa"
 
1:19 AM
@ScarletAmaranth Watashi is female. Ore is male. Boku is also male. In formal situations men have to use watashi as well.
 
@EtiennedeMartel xcode is for apple, right?
 
Oooh, that's pretty kewl.
 
@EtiennedeMartel im on win
 
@DavidFrank Oh, sorry, did you think we were discussing c++ here :P ? :)
 
1:19 AM
Go with Visual Studio, then.
 
@ScarletAmaranth well, yes
 
It's gotta be pretty cool to be able to understand anime without subtitles :P
 
@EtiennedeMartel i dont like vs, its too simple
 
Too what?
 
@EtiennedeMartel it has no features for c++
 
1:20 AM
:D ?
 
@ScarletAmaranth I can only understand about 30% of what is said.
 
@DavidFrank What the fuck?
 
@EtiennedeMartel its rather customized for c#.net and vb
 
@DavidFrank you have no clue :)
 
@DavidFrank VS started as an IDE for C++.
 
user868935
1:21 AM
@ScarletAmaranth That could be different form of "I" but I would not recommend using it. "watashi" is a neutral form, "boku" is a male form around friends and inferior, "atashi" is a female form, and "watakushi" is a very polite form
 
@StackedCrooked Well, 30@ is decent.
 
@EtiennedeMartel ok, what i saw vs2010, didnt have auto format
 
Auto format?
 
@ScarletAmaranth It's a rough estimate. Could be less.
 
@EtiennedeMartel didnt have auto class generator either
i mean getter/setter generator
 
1:22 AM
@StackedCrooked I'm impressed anyway :) I need to pick up some japanese fo sho' :)
 
auto format = code formatting
 
@DavidFrank Oh, so you want to Java, but with C++'s syntax?
 
@DavidFrank We don't write getters and setters mindlessly ;)
 
I used to speak Japanese
 
@EtiennedeMartel i want an ide which provides advanced features for editing c++
 
1:24 AM
I spoke it fairly well, but then I didn't speak it to anyone for 6 years
 
Thinking in terms of getters and setters isn't going to get you far.
 
user868935
@ScarletAmaranth get "Yookoso!" textbook or pdf and "Genki" if you want to start learning
 
no, get the pimsleur series if you want to teach yourself
 
@stdOrgnlDave I'm used to hearing Japanese.
 
lol "I need a GetterSetterFactory" sorry sorry
 
1:24 AM
No, what you want is basically Eclipse: an editor that generates half the fucking code for you (an easy thing to do with Java because half the code is boilerplate).
 
@EtiennedeMartel Gotta love those java definitions ^^
@ChocoMan Thanks.
 
Guys, I have a friend who does Java professionally, and what @EtiennedeMartel says is true - you need a good IDE that will do have your code for you. just the boring parts (most of it)
 
user868935
once you learn a bit of how basic sentences are structured, japanese sounds less like noise lol
 
@DavidFrank On the side note, VS is actually a VERY advanced IDE in my humblemost opinion.
 
I dinner chicken want!
 
1:26 AM
The only reason that Java is bearable is because of the huge amount of code generation done by the IDE.
 
I don't want to brag or anything but I'm actually pretty good with languages.
 
@ScarletAmaranth Bragger!
 
Who isn't? I have a LanguageFactory
 
@ScarletAmaranth tell me more, why you think that
@ScarletAmaranth what features does it have?
 
1:26 AM
@DavidFrank o_O First of all, intellisense is amazing.
 
@ScarletAmaranth how can u swap 2 lines in vs?
 
@ScarletAmaranth That's good thing of course. I've always like languages as well.
 
intellisense is impossible to live without. for me it's either full VS10 or vim.
 
@DavidFrank Oh god, nevermind, you've made your decision already :)
 
@ScarletAmaranth im good with netbeans
@ScarletAmaranth but it lacks things as well
 
1:27 AM
vim works great too, but...VS10 intellisense. yeah.
 
@stdOrgnlDave yeah i'd rather stab myself in an eye with a fork than NOT use intellisense
 
@DavidFrank Why would wou want to swap two lines?
 
I could never stab myself in the eye.
 
@StackedCrooked I like everything that has logic and patterns in it :) The rest i despise :P
 
the only thing that I hate about intellisense is when I get compile time warnings about how it doesn't understand a template (but it compiles fine and the compiler doesn't give any warnings or have any issues at all)
 
1:28 AM
@EtiennedeMartel i have swapped two lines many many times in my life
@EtiennedeMartel there are many cases when i want to move a line down or upwards a bit
 
To swap two lines, you become adept at your keyboard. Then move to the line, home, shift + down, shift + delete. Move above the line. Ctrl + V. Now, Down, Shift-down, Shift-Delete, move back up to where you wanted to be, Ctrl + V
total time taken: .1 seconds ish
 
@StackedCrooked May have something to do with the fact that my memory isn't all that good. (At least for the stuff that has no underlying logic.)
 
@EtiennedeMartel in netbeans its just alt shift + arrows
 
@DavidFrank In VS it's just like any text editor: shift-select the line, cut, move up, paste.
 
Language is somewhat special in that it isn't always logical, but you can develop an intuition that tells you that something sounds right or wrong.
 
1:30 AM
@EtiennedeMartel thats inconvinient
 
@StackedCrooked Yeah, also the sentence creation has a lot of logic in it.
 
@StackedCrooked are you talking about C++? because if you do that you may offend the Lords of the Standard and be a fail at life
 
But memorization is a big aspect of learning a new language. Esp vocabulary.
 
@EtiennedeMartel many ides have intellisense
 
@StackedCrooked The bindings between words, the "politness / impolitness" part of languages, it all makes sense in my head.
 
1:31 AM
@EtiennedeMartel its quite a common thing nowadays
 
@DavidFrank Few have autocompletion as good as VS'.
 
@stdOrgnlDave I was talking about human languages.
 
@StackedCrooked Yeah, vocabulary can get annoying.
 
yotei means planning. Stuff like that you to memorize by repetition.
 
@DavidFrank learn to use your computer
 
1:32 AM
@StackedCrooked But then again, there are many words that are derived from other words (At least in English, German and Slovak) ... and those can be easily induced ... (Or they existence can be inferred :))
 
@stdOrgnlDave what do you mean?
 
@StackedCrooked my favorite way to learn words was to carry around a Japanese dictionary and try to name things. If I couldn't, I'd look it up.
 
@stdOrgnlDave That's not a bad idea, actually.
 
@stdOrgnlDave i can use my computer pretty well, i guess
 
@ScarletAmaranth words like chanji? Yeah, Japanese is desicated
@DavidFrank sorry, it's just that you can't let a GUI do everything for you. It's great to save time, but C++ has different requirements than Java does for time-saving.
 
1:34 AM
@stdOrgnlDave such as?
 
@DavidFrank C++ takes experience. Enough to level up any character in any RPG past infinity
:-P
sorry, poor joke
 
@stdOrgnlDave There's so much "c++" code that's actually c in a coat :) (I used to do that too.)
 
@DavidFrank Visual Studio is seriously the way to go, unless you can't afford it, in that case get Visual C++ Express
 
@stdOrgnlDave my uni finances it for me
 
Express is very good too ... but it's better to use and abuse the student support program and just get the ultimate version for free ;)
 
1:36 AM
@stdOrgnlDave but i dont like it
@stdOrgnlDave it cannot even create a class skeleton
 
@DavidFrank set it for legacy C++ mode not C# mode
define class skeleton in this context; skeletons are a specific design pattern
 
@DavidFrank Keep in mind that getters and setters are generally an anti-pattern.
With that in mind, creating a class skeleton doesn't seem like such an interesting thing to do.
 
@EtiennedeMartel why? what about models?
 
@DavidFrank What kind of models?
 
@EtiennedeMartel database models
@EtiennedeMartel i have a user class, i need information about my users
@EtiennedeMartel so i have to use getters
 
1:40 AM
Eh?
 
you have a user class, right?
the user has a name
an address
and email
 
Oh, ORM stuff
 
how will you retrieve the user's email?
without getters?
ive never heard from anybody that it is a bad practise
 
By accessing the field?
 
Cluelessness level: David Frank
 
1:42 AM
@DavidFrank how are you learning C++? a class?
 
He's one of those that sets every data member private by default
and then construct a getter and a setter by book :)
 
@CheersandhthAlf If you've read the other two "... of Worlds" books, I'd recommend with Destroyer of Worlds. I don't like to intersperse series. Iron Sunrise has the same characters of Singularity Sky, but works well on its own. I'd save Accelerando for the end, as it is the one I think is best.
 
@ScarletAmaranth before you brag, tell me the purpose of this code: pastebin.com/QHSnsBRk
 
1:43 AM
Also, hi!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes you into medium scifi, eh?
 
typedef T***** type -> surely
 
@stdOrgnlDave Lately I read mostly only sci-fi.
 
@EtiennedeMartel giving access to fields is not a good practise
 
@RMartinhoFernandes ever read any Michael Swanwick?
 
1:44 AM
you should use getters and setters
 
@stdOrgnlDave No.
 
@DavidFrank Did you even read the article?
 
@ScarletAmaranth wrong. The purpose of that code is to make your compiler dump core
 
@stdOrgnlDave Good thing is i didn't look at it after i caught a glimpse of T***** ... but have it your way :)
 
@DavidFrank Isn't that exactly what getters and setters do?
@stdOrgnlDave Is it good?
 
1:45 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes actually yes, but you can limit the access with getters/setters
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I can't recommend The Iron Dragon's Daughter strongly enough. (despite how it sounds, it is not a fantasy book. ish) I'm working my way through Old Man's War series atm. Oh, and Armor by John Steakley is amazing. Just got through the Titan series by John Varley, classics! And some Jack McDevitt. Any recommendations for me?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes e.g. u can validate the value in the setter function
@EtiennedeMartel im reading it
 
@RMartinhoFernandes also, hi
@DavidFrank how are you learning C++, is it a class?
 
@stdOrgnlDave yes
 
@DavidFrank You really look like a Java programmer that decided to switch to C++.
 
1:47 AM
aaargh
why are film studios so stupid?
 
@DeadMG Oh hai!
 
@DavidFrank what has your instructor recommended? has he mentioned anything about needing skeleton classes?
 
I'd gladly pay money to see The Avengers, but am forced to pirate it because there are no cinemas within easy effort of where I live
 
@EtiennedeMartel actually i used to be into c# and also using php
 
@DeadMG hmmm, are we talking about the film side or the MAFIAA side
@DeadMG it doesn't come out til may
 
1:48 AM
if they simply sold tickets online, I'd gladly pay to watch
 
@DavidFrank Damn, so close...
 
@stdOrgnlDave skeleton classes are only for convinience
 
@stdOrgnlDave Depends on where you live. Piracy is global. Another reason to pirate instead of pay.
 
@stdOrgnlDave Ok, I'll keep those on my list next time I go shopping :) If you want recommendations, I can tell you I really like Accelerando by Charles Stross, and The Mote in God's Eye by Larry Niven is my favourite sci-fi book.
 
@DavidFrank yes but what has your instructor recommended?
 
1:48 AM
@DeadMG Wow, your location sucks.
 
@stdOrgnlDave nothing
 
@DeadMG I generally pirate when the HD home releases come out because I'm poor
 
I just came home from watching it.
 
@stdOrgnlDave its just minus 20 chars
@stdOrgnlDave still saves time
 
It's worth the ticket.
 
1:49 AM
@DavidFrank perhaps give him some time, he will explain C++ design patterns to you, perhaps you will see that C++ is different
 
@stdOrgnlDave You have to live with shaky cam releases until DVD rips
@RMartinhoFernandes I'm down with paying for the ticket. I'm a student, I can go in low times and get it for cheap. It's the travel I'm not so down with.
 
@stdOrgnlDave What? I just watched it. It came out last Thursday.
 
@DeadMG pshhhhh someone here hasn't heard of newsgroups...
 
@stdOrgnlDave how is it different?
 
@DavidFrank you are in a class to learn about that
 
1:50 AM
@stdOrgnlDave my class sucks haha
 
@DavidFrank if you find that your instructor is doing a poor job, come back. until then, try to keep an open mind and do as he says
 
Good nite kids, 4am is time to go to sleep :-/
 
@DeadMG It's a half an hour walk for me, but if I go with my buddies I get a ride in their cars :P
 
@stdOrgnlDave we mainly learn about syntax not about the design
 
@DavidFrank well...that's important. you'll learn about design soon enough.
 
1:51 AM
do you guys know why virtual functions are bad?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I'd have to walk for ~45 minutes. To get to the train station to catch the train to the nearest big down. Then walk a whole bunch more- never measured since I've never done it, but I'd guess at least 1 hour- to get to the nearest cinema.
 
@DavidFrank Short answer: they're not.
 
my professor didnt know hahaha
 
faster to get to goddamn London
 
@EtiennedeMartel they are
 
1:51 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes 've read both. charles stross is great. I tend to be fairly well-read, i.e. Greg Egan even. but I'm always looking for authors. Give me a list of a few? I can see if there's any I haven't read
 
@DavidFrank Probably because they aren't.
 
@EtiennedeMartel they slow down ur program
 
in short, it's no wonder that people pirate instead of paying
 
@DavidFrank How?
 
@DavidFrank oh no, are you serious? your instructor is teaching you that?
 
1:52 AM
what?
 
@DeadMG Oh, yeah, that's a bit annoying.
 
@DavidFrank your instructor is teaching you that virtual functions are bad because they slow down your program?
 
@EtiennedeMartel if you use virtual funcitons, the compiler cant optimize ur function calls
@stdOrgnlDave nah
@stdOrgnlDave i heard it from somebody else
@stdOrgnlDave its true
 
@DavidFrank Please stop this ... blasphemy :(
 
@ScarletAmaranth ??
look
 
1:53 AM
bai
 
@DavidFrank don't listen to whoever told you that. if we were still programming P3s it would be relavent. and this isn't about speed increases, its about architectural increases in CPUs and advances in compilers.
@ScarletAmaranth bye :-(
 
@DavidFrank It's true a compiler can't inline a virtual function call. And virtual function calls are typically slower than a normal function call because of the additional indirection. But it hardly matters in practice.
 
@EtiennedeMartel compilers inline virtual function calls!
 
@stdOrgnlDave then tell me why functions are not virtual by default!
 
@stdOrgnlDave I've been catching up with classics mostly, so I fear I can't tell you any relatively unknown author :S
 
1:54 AM
@DavidFrank because that would be stupid.
 
@stdOrgnlDave huh?
 
@DavidFrank Because C++ has a "you only pay for what you use" philosophy. And virtual functions do have some small overhead.
 
@stdOrgnlDave they are in many languages
 
@DavidFrank Because compilers don't always inline virtual calls.
 
What I'm saying is that the overhead is not significant.
If virtual functions are the solution to your problem, use them. Do not try to make some over complicated piece of crap that tries to walk around a problem that does not exist.
 
1:55 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes let's get a room
 
@EtiennedeMartel i asked my prof the same question, and his answer was: because c++ has been invented like this
 
@DavidFrank which specific question
 
@LucDanton Ooh, sounds freaking awesome!
I can't stress how awesome that sounds!
 
@DavidFrank So? I don't think your professor actually knows everything about the monster that is C++.
 
Nice, clean, no hacks!
 
1:57 AM
@stdOrgnlDave that why are functions not virtual by default
 
@DavidFrank they're not virtual by default because there's no reason for them to be virtual by default
 
guys, tell me more about how c++ differs besides the syntax
 
@DavidFrank Because there's overhead, and C++ does not like to shove overhead down its users' throat.
 
@EtiennedeMartel please don't emotionally cripple the lad with what amounts to preconceptions about premature optimization
 
@EtiennedeMartel i got to know by now, im just stressing, that my prof doesnt teach us important things
 
1:58 AM
Designing for inheritance properly is hard.
Making everything virtual by default doesn't help.
 
@DavidFrank Erm. What does he teaches you?
 
only syntax
 
@RMartinhoFernandes what I hate is when I see people using templates when they should be using inheritance :-(
@RMartinhoFernandes very valid point, everything virtual = inheritance mess
 
how to declare a class
 
@DavidFrank It's a good start. C++ has a complicated syntax, after all.
 
1:59 AM
tell me, how it differs from c#/java
besides the syntax
 
@DavidFrank what does this do? class A { public: int a; A() { a = 4; } };
 
In C#, virtual isn't the default, btw.
 
@DavidFrank Fucking everything.
@DavidFrank The whole philosophy is different.
 

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