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4:00 PM
wut?
oh he's bitching again
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah, but time measurement is inherently inexact :vP
 
@Potatoswatter But the units have exact multipliers.
Those are not measured.
I don't want my meters to be 0.99999999997.
 
the only true expression of units is the Planck distance
 
Measurements having an error doesn't mean you should forgo the concept of significant figures altogether.
 
This is true. To specify a drift-free interval, you don't want to be rounding anything off. However, it still comes down to fractional clock cycles, and ratio won't help you handle that.
 
4:02 PM
I'm 3m tall by the way. Because of the errors in the measurement.
 
@DeadMG say what?
 
@Potatoswatter And how would your doubles help?
 
@Potatoswatter And nothing can. What magical type or unit will give you better behaviour?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes double wouldn't help or hurt. It gives you 53 bits of precision, which is a lot.
 
The integral constant built in std::duration and the like is an implementation detail to relate the units one to another.
 
4:04 PM
@Potatoswatter But doubles don't multiply nicely.
And can't represent interesting values exactly, like 1/60 (a minute, submultiple of degree).
 
@RMartinhoFernandes They don't multiply precisely, but the error is likely to be less than a clock cycle, unless you're working with more than 2^53 clock cycles.
And the fixed-point number resulting from ratio still has to be converted to clock cycles using lossy integral division.
So I think it's the same either way.
 
But I won't botch it in my calculations.
There's only one lossy step, the last one.
 
you're a lossy step!
 
Again, just because you introduce some error, doesn't mean you should forgo all error analysis, throw you hands up in the air and shout 'Lalala'.
 
ok I'm gonna attempt to install win8 consumer preview in a vm
 
4:07 PM
(Ratio is not fixed point, btw, it's rational)
 
see if it drives me crazy
 
@RMartinhoFernandes std::ratio is well and good. I'm just saying it's not a good choice for std::duration.
 
We know what you're saying, and we're saying you're wrong.
 
I don't see why we should forgo the advantages it gives. You'll be using std::chrono::milliseconds(n) and friends anyway. No ratios in sight.
No complexity.
 
This is true. The interface is clean.
Ah, there's another reason I'm wrong: the timing library is likely to be used on embedded systems with no FPU.
Yeah, never mind.
 
4:10 PM
Well, I suppose code for those things is cross-compiled, no?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes The compiler is allowed to defer evaluation of floating-point constant expressions to runtime to avoid inaccurate emulation. It's a gray area.
 
But that can't be done for template parameters.
 
The multiplication by the template parameter would be fixed-point math. To construct a duration, the float has to be converted to an integer, and you multiply and get the high-order word of the result.
 
man
I just made a whole bunch of extra work for myself and I'm not wholly sure why
 
they really did a number with Windows 8
I'm always trying to touch my screen for the big metro-style buttons
 
4:14 PM
@DeadMG Because you were high on cheese?
2
 
(I don't have a touch screen)
 
on cheese, rofl
oh wait
I probably created my original design because my new one won't work!
 
5 updates on release day! Yay for Microsoft!
 
man, I should really get into the habit of leaving comments for myself
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Hmm, cheese.
@DeadMG What kind of cheese?
 
4:16 PM
Ask @DeadMG.
52 mins ago, by DeadMG
cheese is fucking tasty
 
Cathedral City Cheddar
 
Ok, my mind is totally burned for coding. Time to start watching BSG season 4. Wanna know what the heck happened with Starbuck.
 
@DeadMG There's a city called "Cathedral City"? This seems lacking in imagination.
What did they call it before the cathedral was built anyway?
Soon To Be Cathedral City?
 
Bazaar City.
 
Ba-dum-tish.
 
4:19 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Ground Zero.
 
Heh, headline: "North Korea agrees to 'nuclear moratorium'" — doesn't moratorium sound like an indoor room where people are killed?
 
@Potatoswatter yep
 
Points for anyone getting the reference.
 
@Potatoswatter true
 
No, it doesn't.
 
4:20 PM
well, if they're going to have such a room, they might as well upgrade it to be nuclear-powered
 
has anyone heard about this
 
@TonyTheLion Yeah, I asked about that an hour or so ago.
 
@Potatoswatter oh damn, I'm slow then :(
 
What is it? A fruit-powered computer that computes digits of pi?
 
4:23 PM
3 hours ago, by Potatoswatter
Guys, what's up with this raspberry pi thing? How does using a kit computer make it easier to learn programming? I'm confused, and I'm supposed to know about that stuff.
 
euh, no, supposedly something to allow children to learn programming
@Potatoswatter you but you swat potatoes!
 
@TonyTheLion Well, nobody replied. So if you have a clue, do tell me!
 
They get free raspberries for each bug fixed?
 
@Potatoswatter I'm clueless, first I heard about it
@RMartinhoFernandes ohhh, good incentive
 
Raspberries suck.
 
4:25 PM
I'd rather spend the $35 on raspberries, TBH
 
life sucks
 
Bananas are better.
 
But seriously, lego mindstorms were the revolutionary programming kit. What does this do that a PC doesn't?
 
@Potatoswatter have "LEGO" printed on it.
 
4:26 PM
lulz
 
@daknøk Mindstorms do lots that a PC doesn't. I'm asking about the Raspberry Pi, which comes as a bare board. Not made by a toy manufacturer, won't do different I/O than a PC without much cleverness.
 
fuck raspberries and leave Pi alone
 
sbi
@Potatoswatter The point is that it's so incredibly cheap that people will be able to play with it who cannot afforded to do so with more expensive machines.
 
@sbi "Play" with it how? Programming isn't destructive.
 
4:29 PM
My friend was the first to mention it, and he said something about firmware. That is not the realm of beginner hobbyists.
 
@Potatoswatter What Raspberry Pi does what a PC doesn't? Be awesome for not being shipped with Windows.
 
sbi
@Potatoswatter Maybe my view onto this isn't common. I came to computers from wielding a soldering iron against TTL circuits.
@daknøk PCs do that, too.
 
@sbi Me, too. In fact I was designing datapaths from a TTL catalogue before I was 10.
 
"play with it" sounds like something sexual
 
But what does the Raspberry Pi have to do with that? This is my question.
 
4:31 PM
or is it me?
@sbi TTL to me is Time To Live, said of packets on a network
 
@TonyTheLion It is you.
 
It seems to have no hardware hooks, unlike an Arduino or a Mindstorms. There's a USB port and ethernet… like a PC…
 
sbi
@Potatoswatter I wasn't that fast. But in a drawer somewhere at home I still have all the main circuits necessary to build a small Z80 machine with 64k RAM and a small EPROM. That's been sitting in that drawer for 25 years now, so it might not work anymore.
 
why does VirtualBox memory not show the right number in the Task Manager?
 
sbi
Transistor–transistor logic (TTL) is a class of digital circuits built from bipolar junction transistors (BJT) and resistors. It is called transistor–transistor logic because both the logic gating function (e.g., AND) and the amplifying function are performed by transistors (contrast with RTL and DTL). TTL is notable for being a widespread integrated circuit (IC) family used in many applications such as computers, industrial controls, test equipment and instrumentation, consumer electronics, synthesizers, etc. The designation TTL is sometimes used to mean TTL-compatible logic levels, e...
 
4:32 PM
@sbi I never said I was very successful, but at least it seemed like a natural thing to do at the time.
But anyway… what can a novice do with such a bare SBC? The news articles have not clarified this.
 
0
Q: How do I select an alternative member function implementation, depending on a template argument?

heisheSuppose I have this class: template<class toggle> class Foo { void function(); //Lots of other non-parametrized member functions } Now, if toggle is of some certain type, I want function to use an alternative implementation, and for all other cases I want it to use the standard imp...

 
@EtiennedeMartel So? Make function a template and explicitly specialize it.
 
sbi
@Potatoswatter When I was learning to program, east of the Iron Curtain, half of my access to "computers" was to a simple open printed board with all the parts and circuit paths visible (and touchable), with a few LEDs and the case of a pocket calculator for an input (20-30 keys) and output (8 digit 7 segment LCD) device. The thing had a very minimum monitor program in its ROM, which allowed to to poke hey values into memory addresses and inspect them through its display — and nothing more.
I learned a lot about machine programming by spending my time playing with this thing. (Note that I said machine programming, not assembler. You had to poke in the actual hex codes, translated manually from a sheet. )
 
Sweet, someone wants to use Ogre3d from Java. That sounds like a match made in singleton heaven
or hell, quite possibly
 
sbi
@jalf Hell is the Singleton Heaven.
 
4:44 PM
@sbi You're missing the point. Something like an Arduino or other kit computer is a lot of fun. That's low level. The Raspberry Pi is just like a PC, aside from its size.
 
@Potatoswatter Can you explicitly specialize member functions?
 
Am I mistaken? What can you do when the only I/O is USB, HDMI, and Ethernet?
@EtiennedeMartel Yes (member function templates), but you have to do so at namespace scope. That's the only gotcha.
 
sbi
@Potatoswatter You were complaining that there's little you can do with it. I was pointing out that, if all you had before was nothing, you need only very little to be able to play with it.
@Potatoswatter Hook up a keyboard and a mouse via USB, plug the whole thing into your TV, and you have PC running a pretty decent OS.
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Working on software older than a day sucks. [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
 
@sbi I'm pointing out that bare, exposed simplicity offers a kind of functionality that these modern high-speed buses don't. It's not how much you have, it's getting the right tool for the job.
 
What's a good invocation of Valgrind to look for improper memory access and the like? Just --leak-check=yes? That's what the quickstart recommends.
 
sbi
4:48 PM
@Potatoswatter I think it doesn't have Ethernet, BTW. ICBWT.
 
Nobody lacks access to a PC these days. You can go to the internet cafe. That's not a problem that needs solving.
 
@LucDanton I use that and --leak-check=full if more verbosity is needed.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh man, it's already hard to tell if all those errors are from my code or someone else's. Oh well, let's give it a go.
 
@sbi Ah, the $25 model has no ethernet, $35 does.
 
sbi
@Potatoswatter What? Millions Billions of people lack access to PCs.
 
4:50 PM
I know there's a way to make a supressions file to ignore leaks from third parties.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Well I used Valgrind on the unit tests, where it's all intricate between all the test runner machinery and my own tests. I'm being more optimistic about running Valgrind on the final program tbh.
 
@sbi If they can't afford the internet cafe, they can't afford this gadget, or getting an HDMI monitor to use it with.
 
What about it?
 
Just came across this.
 
sbi
4:53 PM
@Potatoswatter All you get in an Internet café is facebook, email and games. This thing allows you to spend your nights learning to program at the price of what's maybe 50hrs at the Internet café.
 
Mmh when Valgrind reports something e.g. "Conditional jump or move depends on unitialized value(s)", the next message is the top of the callstack right? Where, in this case, the uninitialized variable was read?
 
Hmm, never had that one.
 
I think libstdc++'s std::reference_wrapper triggers false positives :/
 
@sbi You can plug in your own USB stick with Visual Studio Express. And US$35 should buy a hundred hours at least.
 
Uninitialised value was created by a stack allocation
    at 0x4663BC: std::reference_wrapper<int>::operator int&() const (functional:457)
 
sbi
4:55 PM
@Potatoswatter Shrug. So you win.
 
@Potatoswatter Wow, your Internet cafés are mighty cheap.
 
The operator is return *_M_data;, what stack creation is involved :(
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Well, I'm in the Philippines. Maybe it's more expensive in India, Africa, etc, but I don't see why it would be.
 
Here you don't pay less than 1€ per hour.
 
And that money gets you a good connection.
Yes, well you're in the developed world. What's the point of having an internet cafe in the first place? I'm not even aware they exist in the States.
If you don't have a PC you go to the public library for free.
 
5:10 PM
(The libraries usually have strict policies about time usage and bringing applications. So I guess the Raspberry would be economical for Americans and Europeans with no other computer access, but who do have a TV and reliable electricity as most do.)
 
Xeo
Fuck off, suddenly my router wouldn't do DNS lookup anymore...
 
@Xeo I had that happen to me (and it has happened to more than one of my friends). Always perplexing and frustrating.
It's really silly when you have to ask someone "Can you give me the IP for www.whatever.tld?" just to connect to something.
 
Xeo
Yeah. Thankfully, a restart fixed the quirk.
Damn, and now Ideone is down...
 
@Xeo First Step of Router Troubleshooting: Restart it.
If that does not work, restart it again.
 
Xeo
typedef map_t::const_reverse_iterator crit; // STL crits you for ...
 
@Xeo You got crit'd by a public transport provider?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Hehe, Laval.
 
@LucDanton It's even a palindrome!
 
Yay, 5k8 lines of Valgrind output.
 
sbi
5:27 PM
@LucDanton I remember the day I was tasked to update a big project to a new VS version, and the new VS version spit 15k warnings into my face, where the old one had emitted two dozen.
 
@sbi she forbid me to name it after her because it was a present for myself. We eventually went with "Azura's"
@IntermediateHacker TypeWrapper<unsigned>(3) + 4;
 
sbi
I didn't want to have to deal with 15000 warnings all by myself, so I made an apprentice write a script that got the warnings from the build server logs, cleaned them up, and posted them on the Intranet, per module/subsystem/whatever, in order of decreasing number of warnings. This was then named the "warning hall of shame", making everybody trying to reduce the warnings in their part of the code when they were on top of the list. It still took a few months to clean up the mess.
@MooingDuck "...it was a present for myself. We eventually went with..." Mhmm. Didn't you even notice the discrepancy in that statement? :)
 
@sbi I'm not so good with grammar. Should it have been " it was a present for me"?
 
sbi
@MooingDuck If it was a present for you (singular) then why did the two of you decide about the name?
 
@sbi because she is a girl
@IntermediateHacker: I got the problem wrong, that code works
 
sbi
5:36 PM
@MooingDuck Well, which is why I think she would still have been happy had you named it after her, even though she said she didn't want you to.
What does "Azura" stand for, anyway?
 
uh, that paren is part of the link
Anyway, it's an item in the Elder's Scrolls games that lets your temporarily store human souls for carrying around
 
sbi
@MooingDuck Yeah, I noticed. You will have to manually create such links.
@MooingDuck Mhmm. Interesting. That failed for me, too. Damn Morkdown!
 
@sbi the links works for me
 
sbi
@MooingDuck So I see. So both of you play that game?
@MooingDuck I meant it failed when I tried to post the link this way myself.
 
@sbi I do, she just thought it was a pretty name. I explained to her what it was, but she still thought it was a pretty name
@IntermediateHacker: ideone.com/yHpKu
prog.cpp:75: error: ambiguous overload for ‘operator+’ in ‘d + i’
prog.cpp:75: note: candidates are: operator+(double, int) <built-in>
prog.cpp:22: note:                 pro::TypeWrapper<T> pro::TypeWrapper<T>::operator+(T) [with T = double]
 
sbi
5:41 PM
Ah, wait. I think I know why it failed: Ha! This works.
@MooingDuck I once had one who played Diablo and other games with me. It certainly was great to live with a woman who played games and could program. Didn't last, though. :(
 
@MooingDuck damn, how do I fix that?
 
@IntermediateHacker template<typename U> TypeWrapper(TypeWrapper<U>& v): value(v) {}
 
@sbi probably some religious computer software arguments that broke you apart :P
 
@rubenvb she probably mentioned Java. :P
 
@IntermediateHacker Fix i + d, too.
 
5:50 PM
@sbi your dog is cute. but he looks a bit bored.
 
sbi
@rubenvb No. She gave up when the onset of endorphins ended, routine settled in, and the stress level caused by external problems increased.
 
S/he looks kinda not eating a frog.
 
sbi
@IntermediateHacker I don't own a dog.
 
installing win 8 consumer preview
 
sbi
@Potatoswatter She? You can see that from a dog's face?
 
sbi
@IntermediateHacker What do you think the > stands for?
 
@sbi The next thing you said, referring to your ex, I took to be dog-related. I'm falling asleep right now.
 
@sbi oh, yeah. lol.
 
sbi
@IntermediateHacker See here.
 
meh, they want your fucking fone number for installing window
wth
 
5:54 PM
Haven't they always asked for all that? Just part of optional, useless registration. Apple asks too!
 
Xeo
lol
 
Libre software doesn't ask for anything.
Not that I want you to use libre software, but I don't want "Brand X does it too!" to become an excuse.
 
There's a secret command to put bogus values in the OS X registration screen. Internal testers got sick of filling it in every time they started with a fresh install.
 
@TonyTheLion I am way ahead of you :)
 
sbi
 
5:59 PM
simple debugging question: if I have a main.c file in project root, how do I set a breakpoint in a main.c file that's located in a subdirectory (called "basic") I have tried to run "break basic/main.c:main" but it cannot find it, when I try just main.c:main it find the main in project root
 
sbi
@rubenvb You have already crashed it?
@SSHThis Just press F9 at the right line in the file.
(That's what you get for not even stating which application you're asking about.)
 
I'm using gdb
 
hmmm windows 8...
 
sorry
 
not sure if I like the start menu that way
 
6:00 PM
@sbi no, but the Virtualbox GPU WDDM drivers fucked it up pretty badly. They really redesigned the UI and how baic stuff works. I can't say I dislike it
 
sbi
"I can't say I dislike it." I'll need a while to unravel that.
 
@TonyTheLion you can start typing and search and get a better start menu
or hold your mouse in the lower right corner for an eternity and click on the search button that eventually pops up
 
right
 
@sbi It's different and new, I need time to estimate its value. I'm not a first-minute-sucks-I-hate-it kind of guy
wow IE10 has 100/100 on the acid3 test
Kewl
 
@SSHThis There syntax I know is either break main to stop at the beginning of the function, or break main.c:50 for a particular line.
It shouldn't be possible to have two main functions in the same program, and it shouldn't find functions in source files you didn't link into the program, so I'm not sure how it could be confused.
 
6:09 PM
seems windows 8 created an account for me on the system of which I don't know the password
or does it take the password of the email account I used to register
 
@TonyTheLion yeah, that. You can also not give it an email address
It uses your "Microsoft Account", aka Hotmail/MSN/Live account.
It's used like Chrome's browser setting sync, only a lot more integrated I guess. If you have a Windows phone.
 
hmmm
but why does it not accept it then when I try to remotely login using that?
 
@TonyTheLion remotely? WTF are you up to?
 
@rubenvb remotely connecting to my preview box on my other machine which runs in a virtual machine :)
it worked :)
 
@TonyTheLion ah, cool. Forgot your password wasn't "hornyporn"?
 
6:14 PM
@rubenvb yea I forgot my password is nothing sexual
not sure how to get to the start menu through remote desktop connection
 
@TonyTheLion can't you forward the meta key?
 
my head hurts
 
@DeadMG too... much... cheese
 
lol
 
@rubenvb how?
 
6:21 PM
@TonyTheLion I don't know, you're the one who wanted to log in remotely, I guess you know how that remote part works
 
unlikely
 
teh @TonyTheLion know not how stuf worksed.
 
yea well I've never had to forward the Win key to a remote machine through remote desktop
 
omg MSVS11beta requires 10Gb to install
 
found it
needs to be full screen
hmmm maps app looks kinda neat
 
6:33 PM
I'm outta here
cya guys laterz
 
...and about 7Gb on C:
 
gonna try msvc 11 on my beta preview of win 8 :P
 
well... I hope it will run on virtual machine
 
Hmm... is it just me or do people seem to be a little upvote happy today. I think I'm gonna return the favor and get a little upvote happy myself.
I got 6 residuals overnight + Nice Answer badges on both questions I've answered today (both in the past 30 min.)
As well as 6 upvotes on a meta question I posted a hour ago. lol
uh..... I'm not Jon Skeet.
Now I think I'm just getting trolled... "Ha! You're rep-capped, so we'll keep throwing upvotes at you."
 
6:52 PM
lol
 
@ScottW That's a good thing, cause it means you've never lost any rep to it.
I've lost at least 14680 rep to the repcap. That's almost 40%. Jon Skeet has lost more like 80% to the cap?
 
132
Q: Upcoming Reputation History Changes

Nick CraverUpdate: this is now being tested on meta, we'll be watching for bugs and such over the next few days. During the rollout you will see empty reptuation tabs on profiles as we transition to the new storage behind the scenes, they'll be restored as the recalc rolls though each user. Behind the s...

Reputation skew! (:
 
It's to keep the datatype from overflowing because of Jon Skeet.
It's one of his meta-posts, lemme find it.
 
If there wasn't a rep cap, Jon Skeet would get about 400 rep per day.
It's not that much.
 
@daknøk No, that's 400 after the repcap. Just look at how many upvotes that aren't counted because of the cap.
 
7:07 PM
@Mysticial oh lol
I see.
 
7:54 PM
If all you have is Java, everything is solved by inheritance.
 
When I write documentation, what is the correct phrase to use to say that instances of a type are static? "Instances are stored statically"? Would that be confused with instances with automatic storage?
 
So a vehicle is a movable location... hm, perhaps.
@PaulManta "Would 'static storage' be confused with 'automatic storage'"? Not if your audience is literate, I would hope.
 
2
Q: A virtual machine for C++ for optimizing performance

MetallicPriestAn argument in favor of JITed languages such as C# and Java is that they can perform optimizations better since runtime profiling by the virtual machine can optimize code better than statically optimized code of C++. However, I was wondering if we could also use a virtual machine to optimize co...

 
@ScottW Once you have many high rated answers then a cumulative effect starts to kick in. So maybe it would become exponential and hit the limit of 64-bit long. (If it weren't for repcap.)
 
Can anyone give me a quick tip on using g++ to link object files into other programs?
 
8:08 PM
@StackedCrooked That holds if there's infinitely many people in the world. It'll be logistic curve since you'll eventually run out of people in the world.
 
@ScottW In practice the cumulative effect would die out due to too few programmers in the world. But theoretically an exponential increase in rep would hit even such large number rather quickly.
 
And unless we can conquer space, the population isn't going to increase exponentially. At least I don't think so.
 
Even if we conquer space it will be hard to reproduce at the rate we did on Earth.
So I think.
@ScottW He'd need to reach rep -1 then :)
 
Depends on how far you conquer. Interplanetary certainly won't be enough - unless we can find a way to float colonies on top of Jupiter, there isn't a lot of real estate around.
 
If the world becomes dominated by computers like in the matrix then humans could be store in small 1x1m containments. A few square miles with multiple floors would fill the current world population.
They can colonize planets without needing to terroform them. Only the inside of the containers must provide air etc.
 
8:14 PM
Yeah, that's a good point. Or would that qualify as sockpuppeting?
 
Wait as sec, need to look up that word.
 
@StackedCrooked I meant that you'd need to have massive hot-air or some sort of floating colony on the surface of Jupiter. Even if you combined the surface areas of all the moons in our system, you still won't have a lot of solid ground to build on.
And there's only so much you can keep in orbit.
Well, actually, you can go into heliocentric orbit, there's plenty of room for that, but it's not energy efficient that way.
 
@Mysticial I don't know how feasible it would be.
 
@StackedCrooked Of course we're talking new technology. Getting anything to stay afloat on the upper atmosphere of Jupiter is hard enough.
 
The humans can be fed intravenously. The container could come with some form of carbon storage and water. The energy obtained from light* could be used to create C-H molecules for nutrition.
 
8:18 PM
@StackedCrooked Why not just use solar panels directly?
 
@Mysticial Perhaps we should start with earth then.
@DeadMG Oh yeah, I forgot, we can transform energy into matter.
 
humans don't produce energy from nowhere, anything that can feed us can probably be burned in a biofuel plant more efficiently in terms of the final result for any machine
 
@DeadMG As of current technology, it's hard to get solar panels to work beyond 5AU.
 
woah, VS 11 takes forever to install
when you use webinstaller
 
Webinstaller could theoretically be faster if you disable unwanted options up front.
 
8:22 PM
@StackedCrooked Actually, it's even harder to do that on Earth because the density of the atmosphere on the surface is very low. To float, you just need to be less dense than the atmosphere. On Jupiter, if you go far down enough, it'll be dense enough to stay afloat. But you'll have other problems to deal with.
 
Maybe just orbit them around the sun.
 
@StackedCrooked ha, I didn't do that
 
@StackedCrooked Yeah, that's what I was saying. The problem with an orbit around the sun is that it's hard to move between planets. Even if you play around with Lagrange points and gravitational slingshots, it'll still take forever.
Whereas if you're in orbit around a planet, you can do all sorts of cool things with the moons and space elevators and stuff.
@ScottW Yes, that's how it works here in "The Lounge". :)
 
@Mysticial Perhaps it isn't such a big loss if we lose a few due to influence from other planets. We could send them in orbit somewhat randomly and accept a certain loss percentage.
 
@StackedCrooked Actually, I take that statement back, the only efficient way to move between planets is to go into sun orbit and bounce off of lagrange points and gravity assists. It'll still take 40+ years to transfer from Earth to Neptune that way, but it's the only energy efficient way.
And nothing needs to be lost. We can easily calculate trajectories to get everything right.
 
8:31 PM
Sweet.
 
Just look up the trajectory of any of our interplanetary probes that has gone into orbit. It's, for lack of a better work, fugly.
I emphasize "gone into orbit", because it's much harder to get into orbit around something, then to fly by it.
 
seems like if we have to worry about energy efficiency, we're pretty much screwed. Where's cold fusion when you need it? :D
 
@jalf Cold fusion isn't going to help that much. At least I don't think so. In space you can only move if you eject some of your mass in the opposite direction you intend to go.
 
Perhaps it's better if cold fusion is not invented too soon. Right now the energy crisis is forcing us to use it more economically.
Which is good to slow down global warming.
 
Photon momentum is too small to have an impact - AFAIK.
 
8:35 PM
0
Q: Is "temp" a reserved system name?

MosheI was doing HW on a remote server, and I realized that I had my header and cpp files swapped. So, I wanted to change the names. I began by renaming my header file 'temp'. Then, weird things started happening. First, header file, named "temp", disappeared. The old header, named someFile.cpp, beca...

 
But yeah, space travel sucks...
 
@Mysticial Essentially, spaceships move by farting.
5
 
@EtiennedeMartel Exactly :)
Where their fart makes up of most of their total mass.
 
8:52 PM
@Mysticial that's not essential for space-travel, merely essential for speed.
@EtiennedeMartel I read a book where we started designing spaceships that were powered by giant lasers that orbited Earth. Theoretically doable.
can't come back though; they're one way
 
One of the cooler things I read about, is how a sufficiently long space elevator built on Earth can send anything out of the solar system with essentially zero-energy (no propulsion at all)
 
@Mysticial With what, then? Magnets?
I think it might be possible to make a gigantic railgun to shoot things in orbit.
 
Just an elevator, like in an apartment building.
Only higher.
:p
 
No. A space elevator is tied to earth. But the earth rotates. So if it's long enough...
 

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