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4:03 AM
new sucks and new[] should never, ever be used in good C++ code
 
@DeadMG shocking
 
@DeadMG Unless you need to interop with old code... then again, you can always just use a std::vector, so, indeed.
 
4:25 AM
just letting you know I'm sound asleep
in case you were wondering :)
 
@ScottW Much C++ code is good
 
Where Good = Less Horrible
C++ code can never be truly good unless they implement modules and remove the preprocessor. Then they can focus on discouraging pointers in favour of references.
 
hence why I decided to invent my own replacement
 
@DeadMG have you hosted it somewhere? Can I look at the syntax at least? It's got me interested.
@ScottW WideC
 
@IntermediateHacker Not really, it's unfinished
@IntermediateHacker I cut the C
 
4:32 AM
Now it's called "Wide" ?
 
yeah
 
CTC = cooler than C
 
any language fits that description
except perhaps Brainfuck
the only way to program is the way which gives you the maximum control over the output for the minimal amount of time expended
 
Even the .NET CIL is better than C.
And it's supposed to be an assembly language.
 
CIL isn't assembly language, it's bytecode
the two are very different
 
4:39 AM
@DeadMG yeah. but you can access native methods in it and use them. You can program pretty much at assembly level.
 
P/Invoke is not the same thin
 
and you can use high-level OOP at the same time. it's kinda cool.
 
and it's not even remotely close to assembly
 
@DeadMG well, C++ almost has C as a direct subset, and C was designed as portable assembly language, namely to ease the porting of early Unix
 
then Microsoft probably named it's compiler "IL Assembler" just for marketing.
 
4:42 AM
But the last time I said that (which is true), many years ago, a flame war erupted
 
@CheersandhthAlf We're talking about CIL
 
Some silly C fan-boy.
oh
 
@CheersandhthAlf You're @Alf right?
 
sorry for butting in half-cocked then
^ someone is going to make jokes about that i'm sure
 
I thought C Fan-boys were extinct.
 
4:44 AM
yes
 
I wonder how youtubers managed to start a dispute on religion under John Lennon's Give Peace A Chance video.
 
I have a quick question about std::string. May I ask?
 
@MPelletier read the newbie hints first.
:D
 
@IntermediateHacker will do!
 
okay, then ask.
 
4:51 AM
In std::string, is there a constant similar to std::endl to represent an end of line, but specifically for formatting a string?
Instead of doing, you know, << "\n"
 
you can't std::string() << "\n" at all
 
oh :(
 
@MPelletier something like the System.getProperty("line.separator"); in Java?
 
hmm, yeah. I guess. I don' t know Java, but that would be the gist of it.
 
everyone just uses '\n'
 
4:54 AM
@MPelletier '\n' represents end of line. std::endl means 'put EOL (i.e. '\n') and then flush (i.e. pass std::flush)'.
 
yeah. why not just use '\n' ? All mainstream platforms support it.
 
I was just wondering if there was a system-aware facility in std to switch between "\r\n" and "\n".
 
not as far as I'm aware
but in reality, you can just write "\r\n" everywhere, and Linux systems just ignore the extra \r
 
I remember once seeing a platform-specific #define in the C Glib source code for a new line.
 
huh
 
4:58 AM
@MPelletier In text-mode you get '\n' as a line delimiter, in binary-mode what you put is what you get. If you want to alternate between a literal '\n' and '\n' as a line delimiter for the same stream object then yes, you're screwed.
 
@LucDanton No, really just wondering if there was a stock "constant".
All you guys have been helpful. thanks!
 
Yeah, '\n'.
 
just letting you know I'm sound asleep
in case you were wondering :)
 
Tin
hello guys, i'm trying to compile my code (c++11) on a server. unfortunately, the compiler version doesn't support it (gcc version 4.1.2 20080704 (Red Hat 4.1.2-50)), any simple suggestions how could I handle that issue?
 
@MPelletier create your own. use #ifdefs for checking platforms and a #define EOL .
 
5:00 AM
Just like 0 is a null pointer value, even if the actual bit representation of it is not, in fact, all zero bits.
 
#ifdef WIN32
#define EOL '\n'
#elif defined( UNIX )
#define  EOL ....
 
does boost have some environment thing that lets you know line endings and default encoding and such?
 
@CheersandhthAlf Only Boost lib remotely related to the problem domain I think is Boost.Locale. Not familiar enough with it to answer you, and the documentation looks massive.
No idea what's the status on those candidate libs for Boost.Unicode either.
 
5:17 AM
@ScottW I invented a new concept - "don't_use pointers"
 
@ScottW Regular pointers are often known as dumb, naked, or raw pointers
 
@ScottW cowboy movies or erotic?
well, i would prefer Festus and Matt Dillon.
gunsmoke
used to watch that as a kid
:D
 
5:35 AM
just letting you know I'm sound asleep
in case you were wondering :)
 
@sehe You've gotta freaking bored out of your mind... :)
 
and impressively fast asleep, too
 
6:10 AM
just letting you know I'm sound asleep
in case you were wondering :)
 
sehe's a bot. :)
 
6:33 AM
sleep-modus.
 
6:46 AM
just letting you know I'm gonna be off to work now
afk in case you are wondering :)
 
6:58 AM
this actually got starred? What's so special about it?
 
sbi
@IntermediateHacker Changed that for yah. Feel better now?
 
@sbi Meanie!
 
:'(
8 hours ago, by Etienne de Martel
I've been to the darkest corners of the Web. Nothing surprises me anymore.
 
user1182183
7:24 AM
Hey all, I have a bit of frustrating problem (like people sometimes have ;P) and would like also your input on my problem. It's just because it seems that it's really hard to find a bit of C/C++ code which can actually just check if a file exists in a zip file and then extract it into a given directory. With many 'solutions' I just get compilation errors. If anyone wants to help: stackoverflow.com/questions/9373246/… Thanks in advance!
 
@RafalGrasman gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages/zlib.htm ... what's hard about installing that :/?
 
8:00 AM
Do I owe you all an apology?
I was trying to reciprocate to @Hoxiebo, returning all those unnecessary plinks that he had so unselfishly been extending on my account.
I may have failed. I was assuming that ↰replies will plinkthe respective user. If not...
dat is is echt geen grap
zo vlak na de wekker
@ScottW For an American, your dutch is amazing
@ScottW I suppose for more than a few days. (Btw. let's not freak the others out and talk English here. I'd suggest another room just for fun, but I'm at work)
@ScottW Try C++
 
Does anyone know where to find the random permutation of a sequence in C++?
 
I have postest a C program as a reply once on SO
 
@FaheemMitha std::random_shuffle and/or std::next_permutation?
 
8:15 AM
@sehe : Ah, excellent! Thanks.
 
 std::vector<T> data { /* .... */ };
 std::random_shuffle(data.begin(), data.end());
 std::next_permutation(data.begin(), data.end());
 
Is it safe to say that a class with a clone() method conforms to the Prototype pattern?
 
@hochl It is safe to say that the name of the game doesn't matter
What does clone() do?
 
Question: in cplusplus.com/reference/algorithm/random_shuffle is the random number generator something that returns a value from Uniform(0,1)?
 
8:19 AM
@sehe: well it creates a deep copy of the object in the case at hand.
@sehe: Those are questions that arise in discussions with coworkers ... >.< personally I don't care much.
 
@hochl Now, if the source is immutable and is the only way to create instances of the class, I'd say it is the Prototype Factory pattern. In all other cases, it is just a clone() method, or a cloneable type, at most
@hochl Buy headphones ?
 
:2700409 : Ok. I guess I should pull out my copy of C++ std library
 
@sehe: Hmmm. Good point ... headphones: I guess that would count as impolite ^^
 
@sehe : Thanks.
 
@FaheemMitha Always prefer +site:sgi.com anyways
@hochl Having meaningless arguments about patterns isn't in my 'polite conversation' book either. Although, it isn't always meaningless :)
 
8:25 AM
@sehe: true true ... most often people discuss about tabs opr spaces or vim versus emacs.
 
@sehe I find cppreference.com also quite useful since it's become a (decently populated) wiki
 
@sehe: it's not really about patterns but worth a headphone.
 
sbi
@StackedCrooked I'd be happy to oblige, but there's nothing from you on the starboard.
 
@hochl Oh you discuss about Emacs. Nothing to loose then. Consider this: at my place we they discuss about Visual Studio or Rational Software Modeler. [sic]
 
@sehe: >_< comforts
 
8:31 AM
0
A: Initializer lists and assignment overloading (operator =)

FredOverflowMyClass::MyClass(std::string myString) : m_myString(myString) { } Note that you have two copies here: one to initialize the parameter myString, and one to initialize the member m_myString. You don't want that. In C++03, you would take the parameter by const reference: MyClass::MyClass(const s...

 
At home I can work twice as much in the same time as in the office and chat.
 
@KillianDS I almost added that. But I'm not officially decided on a C++11 reference. My bet is n3242.pdf and gcc, msvc status pages (etc). Bjarne page is nice too
 
@LucDanton Vectors of naked pointers are dangerous. I prefer std::vector<std::unique_ptr<object>>.
@sehe May I suggest n3337 instead? It's like the official standard, but with bugfixes.
 
Since we're at it, if I have a function that takes a pointer to an object as argument and takes over ownership, then you can write foobar(std::auto_ptr< T > arg) or foobar(T* arg). I know the first version is better from an exception safety viewpoint and shows intentional programming, but is it worth the extra object that is constructed if the body of the function actually just inserts the argument into a std::vector< T* >? (Yes, pointers in vectors are dangerous ...)
 
it's definitely worth using std::unique_ptr if you want to transfer ownership, if you want to share use std::shared_ptr, but auto_ptr is deprecated
 
8:41 AM
@FredOverflow Of course not they're not dangerous. Don't be silly.
 
@Tony: Scanning through legacy code ... since which version of g++ is unique_ptr supported?
 
@LucDanton they're just waiting for a chance to jump up and bite you
rawr!
 
Stop the FUD regarding non-owning raw pointers :(
 
Fear, uncertainty and doubt, frequently abbreviated as FUD, is a tactic used in sales, marketing, public relations, politics and propaganda. FUD is generally a strategic attempt to influence perception by disseminating negative and dubious or false information. An individual firm, for example, might use FUD to invite unfavorable opinions and speculation about a competitor's product; to increase the general estimation of switching costs among current customers; or to maintain leverage over a current business partner who could potentially become a rival. The term originated to describe di...
 
8:43 AM
@LucDanton Have you ever used any std algorithms on vectors of naked pointers?
 
@FredOverflow Likely the case, yes.
 
@LucDanton Oh okay, if the vector doesn't own the pointees, naked pointers are okay. But how often is that the case?
 
@FredOverflow Always.
 
So who owns them instead?
 
naked pointers ... RAWR! :)
 
8:44 AM
Will depend on application.
 
C++ pron
 
@LucDanton I hate that term :(
 
I've used a 'shallow' container as a view into elements of another container before.
 
WTF? My computer just restarted for no apparent reason.
 
@jalf I find that FUD is all too common a tactic not to find the term useful.
 
8:47 AM
But isn't base_vector.push_back(new Derived); a very common scenario in old C++ code?
 
@LucDanton I find that the term is far too often misused for the term to be useful
 
I actually don't see 'FUD' used that much.
 
Should we add "What does FUD mean?" to our C++ FAQ? :)
 
@hochl std::unique_ptr is a c++11 feature that at least requires rvalue references
 
That's not C++ specific.
 
8:50 AM
@killanDS ok I know this code must compile on 3.3.3 .... i know this is ancient, but then that is no solution.
 
@hochl yeah, you can't use unique_ptr then :). But you could take a look at shared_ptr or scoped_ptr in boost
 
@hochl 4.3
 
@KillianDS: :( no boost because of copyright stuff or whatever. Would it be ok to emulate something like shared_ptr?
 
@hochl Why are you stuck with 3.3.3? Because it is a nice number, three times three? :)
 
No, because it's an embedded device that still runs 2.4.32 :)
 
8:52 AM
@FredOverflow You may. It's just not what I have on the desktop :)
 
and the whole toolchain and everything is like fixed
 
@hochl Writing your own shared_ptr is definitely possible, but there are so many correctness and performance pitfalls, I wouldn't recommend using your own solution in production code.
@sehe You can download new stuff and replace the old stuff with that.
 
Ok, so ... without boost/unique_ptr/own implementation, would it then be best to use auto_ptr?
 
No, vector<auto_ptr> is forbidden by the standard.
 
no, I mean ... ok the code looks like this: void bla(auto_ptr< Node > node) { nodes.push_back(node.release()); }
 
8:54 AM
@FredOverflow No apparent reason?!! You were spreading FUD. We had to stop you
 
@sehe So it was you? ;)
@hochl In this particular example, what do you gain by using auto_ptr over naked pointers?
 
@FredOverflow who else ...
 
I'm dying of hunger, gonna make some pancakes.
 
Is there a way to improve this without updating toolchain/compiler version?
 
@hochl I really do not get those rules (they have them here in some departments too). You could try to extract shared_ptr or find another library that implements it but I'd actually have a good talk with legal/your boss as why you may not use productivity-enhancing libraries...
 
8:56 AM
@FreOverflow: Well that was my original question -- can you avoid the auto_ptr in this case, or is it nice to signal the intention that I take over ownership with the function.
 
@hochl Handrolling your own is an option, but you should have it reviewed by at least a dozen C++ experts before you use it in production code.
 
@FredOverflow In case you do die, be careful not to leave the furnace burning. It could burn down the house
 
Our kitchen doesn't work with furnaces.
 
@FredOverflow Same difference
 
@KillianDS: Agreed ... it's a legal thing, the reasoning goes like this system has proven to work and we would have to clear [legally] the whole stuff again if you upgrade anything to reasonably recent software
@KillianDS: I'd love to convert stuff to C++11, esp. since I've not had the chance to try out all the new features (and throw away legacy code like this auto_ptr stuff).
 
sbi
8:58 AM
@FredOverflow See also this answer. /cc @hochl
 
@hochl In this case std::auto_ptr does work as documentation (since there's no implicit conversion from the raw pointer type), but you have to consider that whatever exception safety guarantees you gain from doing this can be thwarted if there's more than one parameter to that function.
 
@hochl I did post something that we used in production before: stackoverflow.com/questions/6593770/… (that doesn't mean it is as well tested as say, boost, of course). We used it with IBM's XlC++ compiler/MSVC 8(?) which where rather challenged in the boost department
 
@hochl Which copyright stuff? Have you read the boost license? You could copy their implementation and discard the license completely. They're pretty generous like that :)
then it'd be your own code
which, presumably, your employer does allow ;)
 
@hochl I think the boost license hasn't changed for almost 10y
 
sbi
@jalf Yeah their license is one of the most allowing in the industry. Legal departments still consider it a license, though, and as such it must be evaluated. (I'm just glad I always worked in companies where the legal approving consisted of the boss having a quick glance at stuff and then deciding using common sense.)
 
9:02 AM
@jalf: No it's the whole software stack of this embedded system ... but using an old version of boost that works with 3.3.3 ... maybe worth a try.
 
sbi
@KillianDS I don't think their current license is that old.
 
Somehow I hate the whole patent situation, you have to think about every sh** you do if it's legal or whatever. Write 5 lines of code and someone claims he's written the same code in his toilet 5 years ago and now owns all rights.
 
Move to EU.
 
Actually I'm in Germany ^^
 
@sbi I only see the 1.0 license which is from August 2003
 
9:06 AM
Effectively if a company exports stuff to outside the EU you have to make sure it doesn't violate any US laws or you get a lot of problems.
 
sbi
@KillianDS Oh, is it that old already? Damn. Sorry for doubting you.
 
@hochl afaik you cannot patent code, and even for copyright you need to make several clear statements that something was yours originally and that it is original, unique and a bunch of other subjective matters (so for example it's impossible to copyright "hello world", even if you were the first ever to code it). In europe that is :p
 
I answered a question and the OP commented it doesn't work, although I have included a demo program and the output of it. I'm rather sure that sscanf hasn't changed in the past 20 years much.
@KillianDS: Yes you'r right [note to myself -- patent "Hello world"]
 
sbi
@KillianDS The trouble is with the US. As @hochl says — the moment you want to sell on the US market, you're deep in their insane code patenting mess.
 
@KillianDS What? No. Copyright is automatic.
Of course, proving you hold the copyright to a work isn't that automatic.
 
9:09 AM
@LucDanton Yes, i do not say it isn't, it's the point of proving your claim for copyright and that goes a lot further than actually proving: I was first
 
Meh, printout, mail to self, done.
 
I'm glad we're allowed to use 3rd party libs here. :)
Sometimes irks me a bit that we're supposed to prefer Qt over Boost though, but what the heck
 
@jalf: That's maybe because you can buy a license for Qt.
 
just need to push us to upgrade to newer compilers, then most of the important Boost stuff will be in the std lib anyway
@hochl nah, we use the free opensource license
we just don't have an insane legal department. :)
 
@jalf: managers love to buy licenses ... same situation here. We can use Qt since we have the license.
 
9:12 AM
@LucDanton No that's my point, that's not enough :). For most works it's not simply enough that you wrote it first, there needs to be some "originality" and other not-objective unclear things to give lawyers a job. At least here in Belgium it is like that but I think it extends to most other european countries.
 
@jalf: We had to remove SSH on the embedded device since it contains encryption ... cool eh? :P
 
@jalf lucky you :)
 
But there is no way they'll ever get me to use QThread. I draw the line at crappy Java-like thread classes!
 
KillianDS: I think that's how it works, right.
@jalf: Oh you will get used to that eventually ...
 
@hochl never...
 
sbi
9:14 AM
@hochl There's always the programmer's remedy of calling your headhunter.
 
luckily, we don't use threading that much. So far I've gotten away with using Boost.Thread without anyone noticing, and soon enough, I can use std::thread :)
 
@jalf: the advantage of Qt is that if everyone in your team uses it you can be sure that a certain feature set is approved and does not generate legal trouble afterwards.
@jalf: the joyss of recent compiler versions? :P
 
@KillianDS Oh right, not being a derivative work. I don't think 'originality' is the right way to put it, that make it sound like writing a program that does the same thing as another, preexisting program wouldn't be covered by copyright. Given that's it's unlikely two independent programs will look like the one is a derivative from the other, I wouldn't fret over that. Not that the legal process wouldn't be painful, but I wouldn't worry about the outcome.
 
@hochl kind of. At the moment, we're all over the place. MSVC10 on Windows, but our Linux build uses semi-random GCC versions. But we're going to upgrade soon enough. Everyone here is itching to use C++11 stuff
 
@LucDanton I think "originality" is actually the term described in the law here but it's been a few years since I checked that, but I agree with you ;).
 
sbi
9:16 AM
@hochl std::thread is in the std lib. What's Qt compared to that?
 
@jalf: The C++11 stuff reads like what I always hated about C++ and needs a change. Honestly the move constructor seems like a great way to improve speed of some code here.
@sbi: not much i guess ...
 
@jalf I like to hear about this kind of stories, contrasts nicely with the usual doom-and-gloom "we're targeting GCC 2.95" stories.
 
@LucDanton I code in TCL for my job, I was actually glad a few months back when I was allowed to do a small C++ project, no matter how old the compiler was :p (pre-gcc4 in any way)
 
@KillanDS: TCL? Some guys here do it as well, I hate it ... I've been trying to bring Python into the game for several years now ;)
 
@LucDanton Yeah. The only downside is that we have to be cross platform, so have to targest the lowest common denominator. At the moment, it's just Linux and Windows, but we're eyeing doing some iOS stuff as well, which means Clang, which means no lambdas just yet, most likely
 
sbi
9:20 AM
@LucDanton Ugh. I do remember 2.95. The guy who was porting my template code to it had me sitting on his lap for days.
 
@sbi Is that a German idiom?
 
mawning
 
sbi
@LucDanton I don't think so. It's probably mine. I use it for unplanned pair-programming activities.
 
does GCC work on mac?
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion XCode used to employ GCC. I understand that they switched to clang a while ago.
 
9:23 AM
@TonyTheLion yeah it does. But Apple only officially supports up to 4.2, I believe
which means we probably could use a newer gcc, but seems a bit riskier
then again, as long as anything iOS is still on the drawing board, that might be acceptable. Guess we'll see
 
hmm, so what's a newb in C++ on mac gotta use for a compiler?
not me, but I'm helping a noob
 
@TonyTheLion Clang is the default
 
@LucDanton I would say yes, it is.
 
@jalf I hope it has a built version, because I don't see a newbie building clang from scratch...
 
it comes with xcode :)
and iirc, they even symlinked the name g++ to it, so even if you use g++, it just works
 
9:26 AM
On the one hand, that's clever, on the other hand, isn't that the point of c++? lol
 
@LucDanton what, being clever?
 
No, I mean the command c++.
 
I don't think it's the point of C++ that all compilers should be completely interchangable, taking the same command line arguments and all, but it's pretty neat that Clang is a drop-in replacement for gcc
 
$ c++
c++: fatal error: no input files
compilation terminated.
c++ being to g++ what cc is to gcc.
 
9:43 AM
There are other rooms, with 44 users currently talking in 27 rooms. That means at least 5 people are talking to themselves. Nerds!!!
 
    struct PixelSize
    {
        enum Enum { triplet = 3, quad = 4 };            // Number of octets.
    };

    inline int pixelRowByteSize(
        int const               nPixelsPerRow,
        PixelSize::Enum const   pixelSize
        )
    {
        return (nPixelsPerRow*pixelSize + 3) & ~0x3;    // Aligned at quad-byte.
    }
 
sbi
@hochl Users can be in several rooms at the same time.
 
^ Is that dumb code? Would it be more clear written using a certain C++ operator? Efficiency?
 
@sbi: Oh i see ...
Why ` PixelSize::Enum const`?
 
sbi
@hochl However, there's currently about a dozen rooms with only one user in them.
 
9:47 AM
I now think easier to have a sigle common convention about const, if that's what you're asking. I have not always thought that. Actually only last year or so.
 
@sbi: and even if there were 2 that would mean the same people are talking to each other in several rooms.
 
@sbi Oh my, singleton rooms!
 
@CheersandhthAlf Common single conventions, then
 
@CheersandhthAlf I've never quite liked the use of & for modulo operations (and similar, since that's x - x % 4 in this case).
(No guarantees that this maps well around 0 and other 'special' values :) )
 
sbi
One of the singleton rooms is the C++ language room, BTW.

C++ language

A room strictly for discussion regarding the C++ language, bes...
 
9:49 AM
@Luc: sure? I think it's add 4 if it's not divisible by 4.
 
@hochl No, I am not sure. Which is part of the reason for my dislike.
 
sbi
Haha, Alf found a way to beat the system! You back answering questions, @CheersandhthAlf?
2
 
yes :-)
it wasn't my idea though. it was someone here. but i deferred it for long because it's not practical for everything, only for answering.
 
when we store any type in boost::any, we need to cast back to that type before using it?
 
sbi
@CheersandhthAlf Waitaminute. I need to make that known.
 
9:52 AM
@Luc: (... +3) & ~0x3 adds 4 if ... is not divisible by 4 ... and yes, it's kind of unreadable. Maybe worth a comment or macro or whatever to clarify it. Feels like struct { int: -!!(x); }.
 
sbi
@CheersandhthAlf Who was it? He should get a special mentioning in the annals of our subversive room.
 
@hochl Oh my bad, I was strictly referring to the use of &, I didn't consider the operation as a whole. I glanced over the expression as soon as I noticed the bitwise operator in lieu of an arithmetic operator.
I.e. didn't see that + 3.
 
@Luc: But thats' why I agree it sohlud be clarified ... everyone will read it and think WTF?!? first.
 
Well I don't mind (x + k) % n.
 
9:54 AM
@hochl actually that's why I put it in a separate function. like, documented via the function name
2
 
Or (x + k) - (x + k) % n, although refactoring would be nice in this case.
 
sbi
@LucDanton Actually I consider & ~0x3 much more readable. But that's probably because I started out twiddling bits with a soldering iron, and & ~0x3 is just like disconnecting the lowest three wires. I can imagine, though, that, if you approach this from a math background, fiddling with modulo operations might seem easier.
@CheersandhthAlf I love that attitude, +1! I do it myself all the time. In fact, that's how I write an algorithm: I just call functions that don't exist, and when I think this is the way the algorithm should work, I start implementing those functions.
 
@sbi I really reserve my dislike when & is abused for e.g. modulo in contexts which have nothing to do with binary, which means that the denominator(?) will have to be restricted to a power of two minus one for no good reason.
Here at least it's about octets or something.
 
In an assignment operator, do you call the base implementation first, or after local assignments at the end? I get confused every class here is doing it differently.
 
And in fact the first time I stumbled upon such a use it was something like active_page & (PAGE_COUNT - 1), or similar.
Of course I had no idea the PAGE_COUNT happened to be guaranteed to be a power of two. So trying to understand that was painful.
 

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