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12:00 PM
otherwise find a different job. :)
 
Ha, I added gravatar.com to the noscript white list, and now I can see you guys again!
 
Yes, I tried that one.. also I work for some user that don't want to wait (read: are disconnected from the normal IT systems.. and security)
Somehow IT setoff a firestorm in the busness and some of the MDs are getting on booard looks very bad for them!
 
Break the rules!
 
sbi
For the project I am currently working on, I need to start VS with admin rights (in order to allow COM registration, which is part of the build process). If I couldn't do this, I couldn't work on the project. What could be more convincing to a manager than this?
 
@KianMayne Yes, was thinking of setting up a dual boot which is not that bad..
repartion the disk and install my own OS
 
12:04 PM
@Damian I don't know which environment you're working in but as soon it's even a bit about networking: you can't use wireshark decently without admin rights :p
 
@Damian Or just bring live Ubuntu on a USB stick ;)
 
@KillianDS lovely ;-)
@KillianDS wireshark is great for sniffing on network trafic.. I am in an investment bank ... but does not really matter could be any big corperate..
 
sbi
Ask yourself: Why do I want admin rights?
Do you want admin rights because you actually need them for your work? Then explain that and be done.
Do you want admin rights because it's humiliating for someone whose job it is to writes software not to be trusted to use software without breaking something? Then go and look for a less humiliating work environment.
 
@sbi You'd be actually surprised how many stupid small applications fail to install without admin rights (I'm on XP still for work, dnno if it's better on vista/7)
 
sbi
@KillianDS The point of revoking admin rights is so that the user cannot install software anymore.
 
12:08 PM
Colored static_assert is pretty nifty
 
Really if "what you are proposing would prevent me from doing my job" doesn't convince your boss, then there's nothing you can do, short of finding a different job.
 
sbi
If a company doesn't trust its developers with admin rights, then either the company has the wrong developers, or the developers are at the wrong company.
 
@sbi That is not what admin rights should be used for
There are a lot of apps you can simply run out of any folder, without 'installing' them, so if that's quite an idiotic reason
 
@sbi Not even for your own account only?
 
admin rights are to shield of certain parts of your system and yes, it can block an installer if it needs to access those parts, but that's a side effect and should not be the main reason
 
12:11 PM
you can list programs that you'll be unable to use until the cows come home, but they either trust you, or they don't. if they don't trust you, then saying "wireshark" won't change anything. If they do trust you, then it should be enough to say "I can't work without admin rights"
@KillianDS "should" doesn't really come into it.
it should not be necessary to prevent your developers from having admin rights on their own machine either
 
sbi
@FredOverflow Erm. Usually, programs are installed for the machine , not for the account.
 
> Auf Administratorenrechte kann bei der Installation eines Programms nur verzichtet werden, wenn das Programm ausschließlich für das Benutzer-Profil des angemeldeten Benutzers installiert wird.
Windows XP (der interne Codename in der Entwicklungsphase war Whistler) ist ein Betriebssystem von Microsoft. XP steht dabei für „eXPerience“ ( für Erfahrung, Erlebnis). Markteinführung Windows XP (Windows NT Version 5.1) kam am 25. Oktober 2001 auf den Markt und ist der technische Nachfolger von Windows 2000 (Windows NT Version 5.0) mit Windows-NT-Betriebssystemkern. Zusätzlich löste es Windows ME der MS-DOS-Linie in der Version „Home Edition“ als Produkt für Heimanwender und Privatnutzer ab. Die MS-DOS-Linie wurde daraufhin von Microsoft eingestellt. Editionen Windows XP Home Edi...
 
Hey everyone! :)
 
sbi
@FredOverflow The only notable application I heard about being installed into the user's account is Chrome.
 
Has anyone used amazon elastic compute before?
 
12:18 PM
@sbi I like that a lot
 
I'd like to use it sometime in the not too distant future and I'd like to know if I need to code for AWS or if my code will run as is.
 
sbi
@Olumide Of course. How else do you think Amazon pays its bills for this?
 
@sbi of course what?
 
@Olumide Of course people have used it
 
sbi
@Olumide Of course it's being used.
 
12:20 PM
I know its being used. What I'd like to know is if a C++ program has to be written for AWS in order to run on it.
 
"+1, for being the most voted answer." O.o
that's an interesting upvote reason
 
I sometimes upvote an answer because it has many votes
<----- guilty as charged
 
you sicken me :P
 
sbi
@DeadMG Oh. Is that where your stomach trouble comes from?
 
12:36 PM
yes
the thought of Tony jumping on the upvote bandwagon is literally sickening
 
sbi
But you never blamed Tony for it!
 
lol
true true
 
lol
sex hasn't been mentioned much lately
has everyone gone sex-dead? :P
I'm looking at this 805 line monster function, I don't think I want to even start to try and understand what it does
 
aaaah, the adventures of purchasing bedding
 
@TonyTheLion that reminds me, I recently accidentally found out the German Marketing Manager guy at my dad's hospital's Porn Folder.
 
12:50 PM
lol
FIND ALL THE PRON
 
what does 'licht' mean anyway?
 
light
why are you naming this person? What if he finds this online?
 
oh, damn i'm an idiot. but that's only his first name, there may be millions of rolfs....
but still, I'm flagging it.
 
This is the first person with such a name I ever heard of.. Interesting person, your dad :)
 
@StackedCrooked ...lol. but how's my dad interesting? It was I who found the folder.
 
12:58 PM
Just kidding.
 
what's interesting is that he clearly failed to hide it from you
a mistake a user like myself would not make
I'd probably encrypt the folder and have a passphrase like "#include <iostream> int main() { std::cout << "DeadMG is great!"; }"
 
@DeadMG lol. that's exactly what I do. :D
 
sbi
@IntermediateHacker But probably not in the hospital of the father of the guy whose real name I know from Twitter. I hope you flagged for a moderator? Do not flag for us, as this will just generate more interest across the chat.
 
@sbi I flagged for a mod. fortunately.
 
sbi
@DeadMG This string is actually quite predictable — except for the fact that it misses a '\n'.
 
1:00 PM
I should try being more carefully when I chat. :(
 
@DeadMG I'd probably use Symlinks as well so you get weird recursing directories
 
sbi
@IntermediateHacker Or try to separate your online identity from your RL identity, as I do.
 
@DeadMG also consider renaming the extensions of all videos as *.cpp. that's an extra security measure I take. :D
 
lol
 
TrueCrypt and the problem is gone.
 
1:04 PM
or KeyPas
except you could never remember such a password
my KeyPass database password is 27 characters of goodness, but I sincerely doubt that I could memorize another password of similar length that wasn't dictionary or valid C++
 
Why would you encrypt porn?
 
@IntermediateHacker Why do you type 'DeadMG is great!' when you are going to watch porn?
 
@sehe ??
 
@IntermediateHacker ffs. Can none of you kids learn to navigate response message links?
11 mins ago, by DeadMG
I'd probably encrypt the folder and have a passphrase like "#include <iostream> int main() { std::cout << "DeadMG is great!"; }"
10 mins ago, by IntermediateHacker
@DeadMG lol. that's exactly what I do. :D
 
@sehe oh, lol. what I meant by exactly what I do was that I use the same method, not the same password .
 
1:11 PM
@IntermediateHacker Yeah yeah. not convinced now. But feel free to start my superb whit. ^^
 
11 mins ago, by IntermediateHacker
I should try being more carefully when I chat. :(
 
so back to the admin rights.. the company will be using this tool for giving my back temoorary local admin rights..
 
right
now I'm going to go to sleep for a billion years
 
Crist was an internal link.. sorry.
 
@DeadMG puppies hibernate?
 
1:15 PM
they do if they had no sleep the previous night
 
anyway, I haven't seen the robot lately. where is he?
 
Ahh, it feels good not to have to write in VBA
 
sbi
yesterday, by sbi
@StackedCrooked See the short conversation starting here.
Maybe we should pin this?
 
He's taking an awful lot of time to upgrade his machine.
 
sbi
1:17 PM
@Damian Why would your back need temporary admin rights?
 
@StackedCrooked Water cooling the size of a small town can be quite labour intensive
 
My company will take away my local admin rights and they have me this cumbersome way to get it back on a temorary basis
 
Maybe he accidentally erased his own memory.
 
sbi
@Damian What's the point of taking away your admin rights, but then giving them back to you should you need them? Is this to watch over what you do with them? Make you feel guilty?
 
somebody find out what happened to the robot!
 
1:18 PM
@sbi I think so.. not sure.. or they can monitor all I am doing in an audit log.
 
@sbi Is it really necessary to pin it?
not especially happy about pinning random things
 
@sehe maybe you should try pinning advertisements. 'ROBOT MISSING'.
 
I mean, starred messages usually stay up for plenty of time if they're popular
 
sbi
@DeadMG I was asking. (I am currently answering this at least once a day.)
 
ok
 
sbi
@Damian But if they don't trust you, how can they let you lose upon their software? Isn't that a much bigger risk than some malware?
 
@sbi Yes, very good point.. but if I put backdoors into the code they will find out some day and I can goto prisson.
 
My Theory: The robot was abducted my aliens who taught him secrets of the universe and space-time. He later built a time machine to go back to the past, when he went to the past something went wrong and now he's stuck in a time-loop. He existed till a week ago, then he was warped back in time to when he joined SO to begin again.
 
sbi
@Damian I doubt you can be prosecuted unless they can prove beyond doubt that you did it intentionally or in a serious violation of your obligations. — Just as it is with introducing malware to the company.
 
@sbi Good point ;-) sabotage. But how to they proove if I did the bugs intentially
 
sbi
1:24 PM
@IntermediateHacker That would also explain why he could answer faster than we could — he already knew the answer from the last round in the time-loop!
 
@sbi yeah. that's what made me suspicious in the first place.
I knew there was something awfully weird going on.
 
what's better for use?

switch/case || may if-elseif

what's better on ASM level of this constructions, and why one is better than anoter? :)
thanks
 
sbi
@user1131997 As always, the best is the one that's easiest to read and maintain. Should there be a performance issue, then profiling will uncover it, which gives you a chance to uglify your code for the sake of performance by testing which one is faster on a specific platform. Never do that prematurely.
 
MISSING: Robot Marthino Fernandes, last seen Feb 10 at 13:20. If found, please return to Lounge<C++>
 
sbi
Damn, I pinned it. The puppy is sleeping anyway.
 
1:30 PM
what's the puppy got to do with your pinning it?
 
sbi
11 mins ago, by DeadMG
not especially happy about pinning random things
 
this is not random, we're missing a person, whom was always here and has never just disappeared like this
 
sbi
Dang, another mod. It seems they want to keep us under surveillance, lest we unleash the revolution against them.
 
let's revolt against ALL the MODS
 
If DeadMG went missing I bet he'd want "lost dog" signs to be posted all over
3
 
1:32 PM
lol, DeadMG won't go missing, rest assured :P
 
sbi
@casperOne, Currently 34 of your 31k+ rep (that's about 0.11%) comes from answers in the tag (and it's only 28 when we disregard questions that are also tagged ). So what's so fascinating about us that you keep coming back? :)
@IntermediateHacker Now it struck me! Trafalmadorians! OMG. So it goes...
 
Robot?
 
sbi
Rejoice! The robot is back!
16
 
@RMartinhoFernandes You're alive!
 
Hurray!
 
sbi
1:41 PM
We have been worried.
 
@sbi you mean, that it's better to look at disassembly?
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes? Is it really you? Can you speak? Nothing broken?
@user1131997 No. I meant hat I said: It's better to write the code the way that's easiest to read and maintain.
If you have performance problems later, you profile. And only if profiling shows that this code is a hot spot, you even consider uglifying it for performance's sake.
It's much easier to optimize well-maintainable code than to maintain optimized code.
 
1:45 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes hi
 
Good to have you back.
 
sbi
What happened to you? You had us worried.
 
Internet outage.
Nothing troubling.
 
oh damn :(
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes You mean your net access was gone for five whole days?
 
1:46 PM
17 mins ago, by Tony The Lion
MISSING: Robot Marthino Fernandes, last seen Feb 10 at 13:20. If found, please return to Lounge<C++>
we had a banner out for you
 
@RMartinhoFernandes your inet-host hasn't give you ip via DHCP ? :)
 
@sbi My 3G modem blew up.
 
you have a 3G modem?
 
Glad to see everyone was missing me :)
2
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes You mean you are online via UMTS all the time?
 
1:48 PM
@sbi When I'm at my folks's house, yes.
 
isn't that expensive?
 
sbi
33 mins ago, by sbi
Maybe we should pin this?
@TonyTheLion Not if you have a flat rate.
 
2:03 PM
I'm now a member of the AAAAAAAAAAAAA
The All-American, African, Asian And Australian Association Against Acronym And Abbreviation Abuse Anonymous.
 
@TonyTheLion Perhaps I'm just looking to broaden my community reach and buffer my skills in an area that I haven't participated in. Go figure?
 
sbi
@casperOne Perhaps. And perhaps not.
 
2:20 PM
Hi!
If there is a function template<class T> void foo(T arg) {}, is there a way to find out at compile-time if T was found through template parameter deduction?
 
I doubt it
 
I know of one ugly way.
 
Please don't.
 
Man it'll take too long to explain how it works, I'm writing you an example.
 
I don't want to change the behavior. I just want to show a slightly different error message using static_assert.
 
2:24 PM
Is it a problem if one overload is introduced?
 
Nope.
 
Well, id to the rescue.
@Tony I'm not happy you misspelled my name in the MISSING anouncement.
 
ideone.com not responding, oh well :|
 
@RMartinhoFernandes oh damn, wasn't on purpose
:(
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Good to see you back!
 
2:28 PM
So, what did I miss?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh nuttin. Just avoid the logs of monday !!!
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes See the tagline.
 
Hmm. He's a robot. He probably can't avoid indexing the bad blocks. Poor thing.
 
@TonyTheLion You're against abbreviation abuse anonymous??? So you want people recovering from abbrev. abuse to fail?
 
lol
We got invaded by the meta police
 
2:33 PM
My name is @Tony and I'm a acroabbrevaholic.
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion The robot can't hear you now. He's plowing through Monday's logs.
 
@sbi He's single core?
 
@sbi since he's a bot, it should be pretty fast
 
sbi
2:35 PM
@Xaade Have you seen Monday's logs? Parsing that can easily busy dozens of cores.
 
what if he throws a parse error?
 
I don't give a rats parse.
 
@LucDanton my eyes! But thanks a lot man. I get how it works.
 
The actual parameter is deduced in both cases, but in the one overload that catches the deduced request you can do the conversion that would otherwise have taken place.
Wait, that should be in the other overload. Oh well. Make it work!
 
sbi
@daknøk Yeah, all those > thingies poke you in the eye quite mercilessly, don't they?
 
2:38 PM
>_<
 
It's very frequent in my code to have templates where the template parameter list takes more vertical space than the actual body (which is not uncommonly a one-liner anyway).
 
@sbi which means he can still dedicate one core to listening
Interface unresponsiveness is unacceptable!!!!!!!
 
@LucDanton Yeah, that's awesome. I have been struggling with a way to distinguish "normal" enable_if from aliased enable_if and I didn't consider different casing. I stuck with wheels::some_type<blah> for aliases and wheels::some_type_<blah> for the actual types (desirable if you want "lazy" evaluation).
 
atsol.com die die die die die die die die die
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I actually wanted to talk to you about this very thing when you were away.
Great minds etc.
Because I jumped ship and actually switched to using aliases since that talk with Bjarne and his associate.
I did set on using PascalCase like they are doing (or were doing in their slides at least).
So I have typename = EnableIf<std::is_same<deduced>> now for instance.
(And EnableIf is in fact to be used as a conjunction of MPL-style boolean constants, so it's very much unlike enable_if.)
 
2:43 PM
Regarding the boolean traits, I originally used constexpr functions, but I'm not too happy with that. Nowadays I'm back to sticking ::value on them. Still not happy though.
@LucDanton Why not just use a And trait for that?
 
@LucDanton What'd you do.... piss him off?
 
Yeah, I'm not convinced about constexpr functions instead of MPL-style constants.
@RMartinhoFernandes Because I would use it all over the place.
It's very rare that I EnableIf on only one test, and I don't want to write several EnableIf per templates.
The real question, possibly, is what I should call that EnableIf. No confusion if it doesn't mimic the name in the first place.
(Because things like Decay, RemoveReference, Or, Bool, Int are all straightforward to use in comparison.)
 
@RMartinhoFernandes You're back!!!
I've been worried.
Guess my theory was wrong then.
 
You'll never know.
 
It is strangely satisfying when a line's length is exactly the column limit
 
2:52 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes wait, does that mean you're really in a time-loop?
 
@Pubby I find that immensely annoying (if I do notice it).
I find perfection at "column limit - 1". Exactly "column limit" is reason enough to break it up.
 
what is it with Dubai and weird-shaped buildings?
^Crescent Moon Tower, Dubai
 
@IntermediateHacker In one word: showoff.
 
sbi
> Tried to buy something using @paypal mobile. Had this pop-up :) Time to pay your developers more... — @rickysullivan
 
@EtiennedeMartel yeah. but it's for the best I guess. Bec. once oil finishes tourism will be the biggest source of income for Dubai.
 
sbi
2:59 PM
@IntermediateHacker How do you think tourists are supposed to come to Dubai once oil is finished?
 
it's an architectural miracle, not easy to design something like that
@sbi you make a valid point
 
@sbi Camels.
 
@sbi ...good question. damn, now I'm confused.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Cigarettes?
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion Nasty, isn't it, how I keep doing that?
 
3:01 PM
@sbi Teleportation.
 
Yea, really bad, how you keep making valid points
 
sbi
@EtiennedeMartel Last time I looked, teleportation needs a lot of energy. Where is that supposed to come from then, once oil is no more?
 
@sbi Nuclear fusion.
 
sbi
@IntermediateHacker You might want to learn to question what the industry and the government tell you. Yes, it's confusing to do so. But it's better in the long run.
@EtiennedeMartel Ah, the technology that's been just around the corner since the 1950s!
 
@sbi "Beam me up!" teleportation is cheap.
 
3:03 PM
@sbi Yep. But hey, once we get teleportation, fusion will be easy to get, right?
 
sbi
@EtiennedeMartel Don't you mean this the other way around?
 
beam me up, Scotty!
 
@sbi Probably.
 
I think Camels are the best option.
 
@IntermediateHacker Camels with nuclear-powered jetpacks.
Wooosh!
 
3:04 PM
lol.
 
horseback
elephants
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes It looks cheap. Once you can send a huge starship across the galaxy, beaming is no considerable drain on your power, I can believe that.
Well, I gotta go and pick up some of my kids. See you folks later!
 
Yeah, FTL travel seems like it would be easier to do.
 
Hmmm, how does Star Trek beaming work?
I'm sure there's an answer out there.
I'll just have to stay clear from TVTropes.
 
what's the formatter for printing long with printf ?
 
3:07 PM
Woa, new Twitter home page.
@RMartinhoFernandes With something called a Plot Device.
 
@TonyTheLion That's not really reliable.
 
That assumes non-HTML5 HTML works on Internet Explorer.
 
3:11 PM
oh yea true
 
@RMartinhoFernandes It does in IE9.
 
3:23 PM
anybody ever heard of this?
 
3:35 PM
nein
 
Damn, it's like, the third time I see MDPs in class. I think I'm becoming an expert.
 
@TonyTheLion Sounds like one of those newfangled webscale things.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes It's not that new. The hipsters on Hacker News have been jizzing about that for a while.
 
3:54 PM
How can I enumerate a range with Boost.PP? ie something like foo5, foo6, foo7, foo8?
Actually, I think _SHIFTED will work for me
 
4:11 PM
Hey all… can I ask a question? Just kidding.
 
user784668
@Potatoswatter No, you can't.
 
I swear I remember that Stroustrup said he thinks containers are supposed to support inheritance, and that inheriting constructors solve the only real problem in doing so.
 
Well, you can inherit from standard containers.
 
But looking at the FAQs on his site, I don't see anything like that.
I swear I remember that Stroustrup said he thinks containers are supposed to support inheritance, and that inheriting constructors solve the only real problem in doing so.
 
But private inheritance is the only safe way to do it.
 
4:13 PM
Am I full of shit, or did someone else say something similar, or what?
@EtiennedeMartel I'm talking about exposing the implementation's container interface.
 
What do you mean?
 
meh, I get to do bit twiddling
 
@EtiennedeMartel As in public inheritance.
 
Oh. Well, standard containers don't have virtual destructors.
I think it's a problem.
 
There are many ways to avoid destroying by delete on a base class pointer.
The problem is way overrated.
 
4:18 PM
For example...?
 
For example, don't put such a container on the heap, and never slice it in the first place in general.
 
Well, sure, but that's somewhat limiting.
 
Not really, no. No more limiting than not deriving in the first place.
 
Yeah, but what problem would allowing inheritance solve?
I think it's a solution looking for a problem.
 
If you want to alter or extend a container. For example, an adapter that still supports the "native" interface.
 
4:22 PM
But why does that adapter need to publicly inherit from the container?
 
To expose the interface provided by the implementation.
Otherwise, you have to rewrite the entire interface, and forward it to the base class. That's a lot of work, and easy to screw up.
 
You probably don't need the whole interface anyway.
 
That's a lame rationalization. It's better to support the container interface, and the bare minimum for that is still a lot of tedious, delicate work.
 
Wait, what's your use case?
Why do you need this, specifically?
 
I was just reminded by a SO question, stackoverflow.com/questions/9298450/…
 
4:31 PM
Oh. So you don't actually need to inherit from containers, then.
 
Nope. But I think this covers a significant fraction of the cases of writing a new container. It's just that we rarely want to do that.
 
Yeah, I just don't see a need for it in real code.
 
99% of the attempts to do so are by misguided newbies, to be sure. Most people still approach C++ as the OO version of C. But there's no particular reason the language should thwart them.
 
You can inherit from the container if you want to. But you have to be extra careful that you don't heap allocate it.
I wonder if it's actually possible to disable new for a type.
 
So I recall reading somewhere that Bjarne said it was a failure of the core language, not an attempt at guiding n00bs, and that inheriting constructors fixed the problem. But maybe I just totally dreamed it or something.
@EtiennedeMartel Sort of, but you can't disable ::new.
 
4:37 PM
The fact that containers have no virtual methods strikes me as an optimization of sorts.
 
Anyway, heap allocation is still safe if you never slice it. Just pretend that it's private inheritance, except that the members are exposed.
 
It's terribly error prone.
 
Well, not really. Just never mention the base type. It's an implementation detail anyway, client code shouldn't even know about it.
A "clever" clueless user might do so, but the language really isn't in the business of providing such security.
 
Yeah, just pray that your coworkers actually read the documentation.
 
Or don't document that it's inherited (why should you), and put a comment in the code next to the actual inheritance that it's only an internal detail. The best solution is to only work with people who understand the slicing issue, which should be quite doable.
Or, make it private inheritance and use using declarations for the entire container interface. Inheriting constructors help with that approach too, by providing the means to apply using to the constructor.
 
4:44 PM
@Potatoswatter That's the "safe but verbose" way.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Not nearly as verbose as straightforward delegation!
 
@Potatoswatter Indeed.
 
5:12 PM
Is anyone here using clang 3.0?
I was wondering if this needs to be linked to a specific version of libstdc++.
 
@FaheemMitha Why do you ask?
 
@Pubby : I'm trying to backport clang to Debian squeeze from unstable.
 
Ah, dunno then.
 
5:47 PM
Ok, just letting everyone know I'll be offline again for some time. Don't get worried :)
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Nooooo!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I hear there's a "real world" that sometimes attracts netizens and turns them into addicts… be careful!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes worried already :)
 
Hello my dears!
@sbi I sleep a lot and it helps
:D
 
what the? I just put [EDIT] in a comment, and it became a link to the page for editing the current question O.o
 
5:56 PM
Wonder what [SOLVE] does…
 

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