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2:00 PM
But it's nothing really new.
 
> Some API related to gtkmm uses intermediate data containers, such as Glib::StringArrayHandle, instead of a specific Standard C++ container such as std::vector or std::list, though gtkmm itself now uses just std::vector since gtkmm 3.0. You should not declare these types yourself. You should instead use whatever Standard C++ container you prefer. glibmm will do the conversion for you.
I'm not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing
 
I have no idea what it even means.
 
@CatPlusPlus Depends on how and when conversion happens. Perhaps they mean they will adapt to your argument types by using iterators generically (gasp?)
 
@CatPlusPlus Sounds like documented internals.
 
2:03 PM
I'm wary of any and all implicit conversions
Yep
Especially between large structures
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Proxy so you can choose whatever container you like. :s
 
> We now use std::vector in several methods instead of the intermediate *Handle types to make the API clearer.
Their sample source show at least one such vector being used: git.gnome.org/browse/gtkmm-documentation/tree/examples/book/…
 
> Gtk::manage(new Gtk::Label
:(
 
Outside of numeric promotion (maybe) and bool coercion, implicit conversions do more bad than good
 
2:06 PM
@CatPlusPlus It's possible that the examples aren't updated fully? They might show 'hybrid' style
 
Maybe.
 
Bool coercion must die
 
Libertarian
 
Bool coercion is actually one instance where implicitness is never harmful and only beneficial
 
2:07 PM
@CatPlusPlus never? Safe bool much?
 
Sans retarded languages
 
Xeo
@sehe coercion, not implicit conversion
 
FTR: I completely concur, bool coercion is very nice.
 
@CatPlusPlus so what languages does that leave that then?
 
C++ implementation was bad, not the concept
 
Xeo
2:08 PM
@CatPlusPlus Good thing we got explicit conversion operators now.
 
Haha. Ironically, it's concepts that are still not implemented :)
 
Xeo
And implicit-explicit bool conversion in boolean contexts.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes A good day for Luchian
@Xeo implicitly explicit (FTFY) - adverb vs adiective
 
2:10 PM
It sounds bad however you phrase it
 
adjective FTFY - i vs j
 
Wow, 1.5GB for Visual Studio 2012. I hope it's worth it...
 
Xeo
@sehe new word compound, so fuck that. :) (added -)
 
Oh, that reminds me SQL Server downloaded
1.9GB at 400kB/s, stupid MS servers
 
@FredOverflow You get the C++11 stuffs.
 
2:11 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Because it's meaningless
 
@Xeo cop-out :)
 
@Cicada What
 
@Cicada Ah, you're just trolling. Ok.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes no initializer lists and no variadic templates :(
 
@FredOverflow don't forget to also download the november compiler preview thing for more C++11 :)
 
2:12 PM
@FredOverflow IIRC, there are buggyadic templates.
 
@melak47 Na, I want a coherent IDE experience.
 
Xeo
@FredOverflow CTP
 
But then I'll have red squiggles under the fancy stuff.
 
Xeo
@FredOverflow What would be incoherent? Intellisense not telling you the right thing? Oh wait...
2
 
@FredOverflow It is coherent. You can just select the toolset in the project options. So you can even duplicate your build config and select the CTP in only one of them
@Xeo lol
 
2:13 PM
Whoever at MS thought UAC scan was a good idea, is an idiot.
 
Disable the squiggles.
 
@FredOverflow Hint: Vim has none of these issues
 
Xeo
@FredOverflow Nah, Intellisense knows more about C++11 than VC++. :)
 
@CatPlusPlus UAC scan?
 
Xeo
For the most part, anyways.
It doesn't detect variadic templates correctly, but also doesn't squiggle them.
 
2:14 PM
> Setup requires 8.85 GB
^ not as bad as I thought :)
 
@melak47 It does something and it takes a fucking long time on large installers and shit
 
0
Q: Elementwise Power in IT++

Carnez DavisI was wondering if it was possible to do element wise power in it++. I have not seen a builtin function, and if I overlooked it. How can I achieve this? Thanks in advanced

 
@CatPlusPlus Whoever at MS thought UAC scan was a good idea, is an idiot. FTFY
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes What do you mean by boolean coercion, just to be sure.
 
Implicit conversion of stuff to bool, what else.
 
Xeo
2:16 PM
@Cicada if(my_type) invokes explicit operator bool
 
That's what coercion is.
 
Xeo
That's what I'd want it to mean, anyways.
 
I thought coercions were implicit conversions?
 
Xeo
It's implicit-explicit!
 
51 secs ago, by Cat Plus Plus
Implicit conversion of stuff to bool, what else.
 
Xeo
2:17 PM
You don't explicitly write a cast anywhere.
 
inexplicable? :)
 
@Xeo That's what I thought.
 
Oh wait, I thought I was just installing Visual C++, but I am installing C# and F#, too. Goodbye weekend, gonna learn me some new languages :)
 
Then yes, it's meaningless
 
@Cicada No, it's not?
 
Xeo
2:18 PM
@Cicada Wtf.
 
@FredOverflow Computation expressions are cool.
7 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@Cicada Ah, you're just trolling. Ok.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You already convinced me some time ago, I think :)
 
No reason to use F# over Haskell
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ogonek has to wait for a bit, have an appointment in 10 mins. Also, scons doesn't like me :|
 
It takes after OCaml and is fugly beacause of that
 
2:19 PM
It makes absolutely no sense to cast whatever to a bool
 
@Xeo You only need to install Python 2.7. I put scons in the repo.
 
Xeo
shared_ptr, unique_ptr
 
@CatPlusPlus Unless you want to run on .NET or just fiddle with something new :)
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh, ok. Anyways, I have 2.6 installed and apt-got 3.1, and both didn't work, so I thought it was something about scons not being installed. :)
 
Oh no, I said the forbidden n-word!
 
2:20 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes No.
 
@Cicada Yes, it does
 
> In most languages, the word coercion is used to denote an implicit conversion, either during compilation or during run time. A typical example would be an expression mixing integer and floating point numbers (like 5 + 0.1), where the integers are normally converted into the latter.
 
@CatPlusPlus I'm afraid no
 
:psyduck:
 
I like coercions from optional<T> to bool.
 
2:21 PM
Will you just say something other than "no" and "makes no sense"?
Because otherwise it's just trolling.
 
@CatPlusPlus : psy mooingduck: FTFY
markdown sucks
 
You suck.
 
@TonyTheLion It does not suck your failure away.
 
Nov 6 at 16:27, by Tony The Lion
I suck at sucking
it's worse ^
 
2:25 PM
SQL Server installer still crap
Some things never change
 
lol
@CatPlusPlus like yourself. Always grumping
go browse r/grumpycats
you'll fit with that crowd
 
> SQL Server Setup Files are being installed on the system.
Oh look, it's the fucking setupception
 
oh yea it does that
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It allows for semantic inanities like while (1)
 
What.
 
2:29 PM
What's this obsession with detecting function parameter types. stackoverflow.com/q/13645366/46642
What sinister uses do people have for that.
 
@CatPlusPlus What what. That's not what you call bool coercion?
 
No, I'm wondering what you're rambling about
On the second thought I don't care
So carry on
 
Didn't actually need your authorization though.
 
A primary mistake to make is to think that Cat actually cares about anything said in this room.
 
damn, I just wasted the whole afternoon on some stupid benchmark which doesn’t work :/
 
2:39 PM
I've wasted more time than that, on even sillier things than that
 
but I cannot prove somebody wrong now!
(Comment discussion here:)
0
A: c++ implementation of Trie data structure

cat_baxterIt seems you used wrong data structure for the task. All what you need is a simple dictionary (the c++ map class). The idea to find all anagrams for a specific word is the following: step 1: building map structure based on the dictionary - the key is a sorted by symbols word, the value is the li...

 
@TonyTheLion :(
 
@KonradRudolph Resort to "Fuck you!"?
 
@KonradRudolph So what you're saying is... somebody is wrong on the internet? TRAGEDY! ;)
 
the whole point of a trie is that it’s a more efficient string dictionary … but I am unable to show this in a benchmark
my data shows clear as day that my implementation is light years behind an efficient dictionary … and I didn’t think I was that bad at programming :/
 
2:41 PM
Anyone uses tries?
Ah, prefix tree. Trie is a weird name
 
I can't wait to go home
and do nothing all weekend
:)
Call +902123391447 or +302111982716 or +390662207294 or +16504194196 to use @speak2tweet. #SyriaBlackout http://goo.gl/bLn0F
heh Google is inventive
 
@KonradRudolph Protip: one is always that bad at programming.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Not you :P
 
but he's a robot
 
Thanks, but... no, I make plenty of mistakes.
 
2:45 PM
you don't make them in here, do you?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes well, yeah. But the implementation is dead simple. I’m surprised it’s that inefficient
if I have some time I’ll try a low-level implementation instead of one using boost.container to nest the tree nodes
that surely should give a performance boost
 
ouch :/
that was subconscious
 
How should I call it my SQL Server instance
Maybe "IWILLBEHEREFOREVERBECAUSEUNINSTALLERSURELYDOESNTWORK"
 
2:48 PM
lol
I tried installing an sql server on windows
not nearly as easy as on ubuntu :(
 
Try uninstalling it
 
@Borgleader Installing SQL Server on Ubuntu is easy? WTF
 
PostgreSQL is trivial to install
 
But that's not SQL Server.
 
"an sql server" might not be "the SQL Server"
 
2:51 PM
Oh. I thought it was the usual "lowercase everything because pressing Shift is too much effort syndrome".
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes why did you change to relative include paths?
 
@bamboon I changed to relative from the include root, which should have been from the start, but lazy.
 
I think the problem I had is that Visual Studio installs some sort of SQL server. And it was conflicting with the one I was attempting to install. Namely dev.mysql.com/downloads
 
Microsoft, I don't want your fucking shitty machine-translated MSDN, stop trying to do this, thank you.
 
@Borgleader Maybe the two were fighting for ports or something?
 
2:54 PM
Visual Studio installs only SQL Server Compact
 
Though I think MSSQL does not use TCP by default.
 
That's SQlite-like single-file database.
 
Compact is in-process.
 
Yeah that's what I said
 
Well the server wouldn't run :(
 
2:55 PM
Did you check the logs maybe
 
> [2012-11-29 21:32:43] FML user is an idiot; not executing
 
I fucking hate SVN!
good morning/afternoon
 
Ah the service cannot be started. Gotta find the log file now...
 
Why did I use FATAL as the log level? That's so last decade.
 
FML? Fuck My Life?
 
2:59 PM
Did you configure MySQL at least?
 
Yes
 
FYI, WTF, OMG, and FML are much better log levels.
11
 
Cool, Visual Studio grays out code that is inside false ifdefs, I never notied that.
 
@CatPlusPlus Pretty sure I did yeah, but last time I actually try to start the server was a few weeks ago.
 
@FredOverflow Always did
 
3:00 PM
@kbok Yes.
 
Also, I can use TinyPTC with DirectDraw again (didn't work with CodeLite, had to use GDI), and my fps is almost 10 times as much :)
 
Why is SQL Server setup asking for VS2010 DVD
 
fuck knows
 
hahahaha what?
 
GTK docs later do that manage(new T)) thing too. :(
 
3:12 PM
What is that thing? A lousy smart pointer creation function?
 
C++ GUI libraries suck, deal with it.
 
Hell knows
> Mark a Gtk::Object as owned by its parent container widget, so you don't need to delete it manually.
Seriously
 
WxWidgets works the same.
 
I think you actually don't have to do this
Only if you're retarded and have to new everything
> gtkmm allows the programmer to control the lifetime (that is, the construction and destruction) of any widget in the same manner as any other C++ object. This flexibility allows you to use new and delete to create and destroy objects dynamically or to use regular class members (that are destroyed automatically when the class is destroyed) or to use local instances (that are destroyed when the instance goes out of scope).
I'm okay with that.
Beats Qt on that front anyway.
> Although, in most cases, the programmer will prefer to allow containers to automatically destroy their children using Gtk::manage() (see below), the programmer is not required to use Gtk::manage().
Ahaha no
 
@CatPlusPlus Definitely.
 
3:18 PM
@FredOverflow Make a better one :P
 
Right, because there aren't enough C++ GUI frameworks already...
 
I can see why that manage() flag is needed
 
@FredOverflow But they all suck...
 
Is an almost 9% increase in monthly charges for a running contract “significant”?
Virgin Media is arguing that I cannot cancel the contract because they did not alter the charges significantly
and I think that’s bulls
 
Depends on the contract I guess
 
3:22 PM
never mind that the contract doesn’t mention “significant” in conjunction with cancelling the contract after charges have increased
 
Ask a lawyer
 
" square brackets in a few key places makes Racket code even more readable" hah
 
Ahahaha Scheme/Lisp readable
 
@KonradRudolph they want to raise your charge? is that normal in UK? I have never heard of that in Germany.
 
@CatPlusPlus Actually, it is fairly readable once you're accustomed to it. I'm not sure I buy its advocates idea that it's a lot more readable than C++, but I'm not really sure it's a lot less readable either.
@KonradRudolph Sounds like BS to me too, but I've no clue about what the law in the UK would have to say.
 
3:28 PM
@KonradRudolph well it is BS, it's exactly why they put it on the contract in the first place
it's so subjective that the only way to tell is to go in front of a judge
 
And that costs way more than just paying the damn increase
so g.g.
 
@Borgleader unless one make alliance with others in same situation
 
True... but that takes a lot of people
 
@Borgleader Most of Europe has a "loser pays" rule, so if he won, they'd have to pay all court costs and such. Not sure if that's the case in the UK or not though.
 
@Jer
 
3:34 PM
 
@JerryCoffin for civil court cases the losing side pays costs for both parties see this
 
@FredOverflow Repost ;)
 
@EdChum No surprise there, I guess. The one problem I see is that this is probably little enough money that it would be small claims court, where that says he'd probably have to pay his own costs. They probably also have an arbitration clause in the contract, and there you normally have to pay your own costs as well. At least in the US, however, most courts won't enforce such a clause if the costs would exceed the amount of money in dispute.
 
@JerryCoffin small claims court has an upper limit of £5000 and yes he would have to pay his own costs irrespective of the outcome but you typically defend yourself but you could elect to have a solicitor there but at your own cost
 
@JerryCoffin The small claims court is very low-cost. Both parties typically represent themselves, etc.
@KonradRudolph The reason they make you take it to court is to dissuade you from fighting it. But if you actually take it to a judge, he might agree with you.
 
3:43 PM
What is for each (object var in collection_to_loop), an MS extension?
 
@FredOverflow Yeah- it's for C++/CLI, but also works in native C++ similar to the ranged for loop, I believe.
 
@Borgleader You cannot post xkcd often enough.
 
@DeadMG Probably but I don’t have the time for that :/
and ultimately it’s not that much money … about 100 GBP in early cancellation fees
 
There is more info should you wish to get bored quickly here
 
that’s not worth fighting in court for
 
3:44 PM
@KonradRudolph Which is exactly why they get away with it.
 
yes
grr
 
@FredOverflow It's as stupid as ranged-for.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes stupid ranged-for? what's up with you?
 
Don't start a holy war :)
 
3:46 PM
@bamboon That's not what I said.
 
@bamboon It's well-known that ranged-for is a dumb thing and should never have been approved.
 
He didn't say it's stupid.
Range for is cool.
 
@KonradRudolph my friend went to the small claims court over a contract dispute and essentially the other side lied and he got a portion of what he was owed, on the other hand if the other party is a large company they tend to not dispute small claims as they tend to hire lawyers which outweigh the costs involved, however, for £100 it is probably not worth your time to get involved in such stuff as it just eats into your time
 
Less typing is cool.
 
Range for can easily replace normal for completely.
It's amaaazing
 
3:48 PM
more generally, ranges can replace iterators
having a special language semantic just for for is dumb as fuck
 
Dumb as fuck is such an exaggeration.
 
type "Ranges" into Google images
:P
 
Normal for is stupid. I mean for (int i = 0; i < 10; ++i), what were they thinking?
 
but it's logical....
start; stopping condition; increment
 
3:49 PM
Nov 15 at 10:20, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Too low-level.
 
@TonyTheLion Technically logical would be "start; increment; stopping condition"
 
for i in range(x, y)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh wat, it's C++
 
@DeadMG If you dislike special language semantis, you should convert to Scala. Pretty much everything in there is general purpose abstractions.
 
I love python's for item in collection:
that's just so natural
 
3:50 PM
@TonyTheLion There is no stopping condition in the for loop :) It's a continuing condition. Sooo many people get this wrong.
 
@FredOverflow Well, the two are basically identical, I mean, you continue while you don't stop.
 
@FredOverflow They were thinking "Hey, this is a lot better than PL/I's mess!" -- and they were absolutely right.
 
@StephaneRolland That would be for (auto&& item : collection) in C++11.
 
it's not like the stopping condition doesn't tell you whether or not to continue.
 
@FredOverflow I think I tried it with vs2010 when it was releases but it didn't compile, never re-tried since
 
3:52 PM
When I ask beginners and intermediates, they tell me that it loops until i is less than 10. Maybe it's something with German language, but it seems to be very hard to express what the for loop actually does.
 
@DeadMG Line 1, parse error: Too many negatives.
 
@StephaneRolland vs2012
 
@JerryCoffin wth?
 
"it's not like the stopping condition doesn't tell you whether or not to continue."
 
stopping isn't a negative
 
3:54 PM
Every other word is negative...
 
@DeadMG is**n't**?
 
@DeadMG It isn't if I don't not stop saying it isn't.
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: It's not negative non-party! [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Dumb as shit?
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: It's not a negative non-party! Also: Robot fails grammar. [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
 
3:57 PM
@JerryCoffin It is if you fail to omit a declaration as to the opposite of the claim that it does not, in fact, exclude the specific property (not unattributed to it) of not discontinuing
 
@DeadMG What?
 
@DeadMG Needs more not: Robot fails grammar not
 
I will not take lessons from someone that thinks "that" and "think" start with the same phoneme.
 
@sehe Lol. Yes, I really and truly did laugh out loud (though I'm easily entertained).
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: It's not a negative non-party! Also: Robot doesn't not write grammar that's not good. [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
 
3:58 PM
Cool. I like it that way
 
hmmm
write grammar? am I sure that's legitimate? would be rather ironic if it was not
 
hmm
 
time to check with my ugly sister
 
Never not write not good grammar
 
do you have any other?
 
3:59 PM
no
 
@sehe Sure -- he also has an ugly step-sister named Cinder...oh wait, wrong story.
 

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