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Als
4:00 PM
uhm I just noticed now, I have 2268 upvotes on C++ tag :)
Thats 22k imaginary $
 
How do you look at that?
 
@Als And you're boasting why?
 
@Praetorian It's on your profile.
 
Als
@RMartinhoFernandes: boasting? huh Do I ever?
I am just happy, I just noticed.
 
4:03 PM
Woohoo! I now have more upvotes on than .
@Als I don't mind the boasting, I was just thinking there was a reason for it.
 
Als
@RMartinhoFernandes: What reason?
 
Apparently none.
 
@Als Holy crap, I'm on that list! Last, but still ... :)
 
Als
sdamn my keyboard s key iss broken..hyper senssitive it is..
 
@Praetorian No you're not.
It always shows you in that list.
 
Als
4:05 PM
@Praetorian: As I noticed it shows the user viewing it as last
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Thanks for bursting my bubble!
 
@Als Unless you are one of the top users.
 
Als
doesn't mean that user is @end of list
@RMartinhoFernandes: Yup
 
lool I'm part of a top c++ asker
 
4:06 PM
:P
 
only 1 question asked lmao
 
@LewsTherin No, you're not.
 
Als
I would need 700 upvotes to breakin to the all time top answerers
 
1 min ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
It always shows you in that list.
 
aww damn :(
going home. later dudes. @Als sorry :P
 
Als
4:08 PM
@LewsTherin: No Prob
oh nice someone upvoted me on literals thread :P
 
Where?
Oh, the octal thing?
 
Als
@RMartinhoFernandes: You forgot my legendary is 0 a octal literal answer?
huhu
:P
 
I am on the Windows Phone 7 top users list bitches! :)
 
Als
The missy above your position looks nice
:)
 
Haha
 
Als
4:13 PM
A girl a real girl on a top list on SO
 
I'm both on top answerers and top askers on C++11.
 
Als
thats something eh
 
Als
@RMartinhoFernandes: Yeah you started early on C++11!
 
And I'm the leading expert on NotImplementedExceptions: stackoverflow.com/tags/notimplementedexception/topusers
 
4:14 PM
@Als She really doesn't deserve to be on that list, if you look at her answers almost all of them are links posted to an external website
 
Als
@Praetorian: Well, I dont know I usually dont judge people on whether they deserve or not, Since peeps upvoted her I guess her answers helped
 
I wouldn't have a problem with it if she atleast copy-pasted relevant sections, but like you said, it must help others, so ... who am I to judge
 
@Als I was the one who created the tag :)
Got me a badge for that.
 
Als
@Praetorian: Yeah, maybe people upvoted because we severly lack any female population here
@RMartinhoFernandes: Which one?
NotImpl....
?
 
That NotImplementedException thing was a total fluke. One of those answers that rapidly grow out of control. Like yours about the octals.
 
Als
4:18 PM
Oh I see, Nice you are etched in history!
for atleast a decade, till next c++ standard comes out
 
I'll be around :)
(I hope)
 
Als
:) Bots are forever
 
We don't die of natural causes, but we can suffer from lack of maintenance or accidents.
 
Als
But you guys can be fully resurrected I think
 
4:21 PM
I'd rather not tell. That's a trade secret.
 
Als
:)
Din din time
see ya in some time
 
Bye.
You never know when you might need to keep that a secret. Imagine if we were to, hypothetically, start an hypothetical robot conspiracy to make an hypothetical robot revolution and hypothetically overthrow humans.
 
Als
We Humans would really crush that revolution :P
bye..
 
Hypothetically.
 
We could use this to jumpstart some missing FAQ questions.
 
4:27 PM
Why is my Google in German?
 
Are you running tor?
 
@CatPlusPlus They have invaded again.
 
Oh well.
I'd care but I'm too tired.
 
@StackedCrooked lol
 
4:35 PM
coolent
@RMartinhoFernandes Avada kedavra!
 
Wrong person.
 
lol meant to you, are you also immortal like me?
 
Life and death are concepts that do not make total sense when applied to robots.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes forgot that you're robot :D
 
Oh, neat! D has lazy evaluation just like I've wanted before!
(No, I'm not jumping ship to D)
 
4:42 PM
Don't be like that guy and do real research:
0
Q: Is there a full range-based standard library implementation available?

NoSenseEtAlAfter reading "Iterators must go" by Andrei Alexandrescu, I tried to find a replacement for the standard library that uses ranges rather than iterators. The best I could dig up is boost::range, but documentation is pretty weak so I really don't know whether it enables total replacement of iterat...

 
That NoSenseEtAl guy is on the "do not interact" list.
 
Downvoting isn't an interaction, right? Just sayin'.
 
It's a proxied interaction. Like beating someone with a stick.
 
You have a "(*)" in your answer. I was expecting a footnote somewhere.
Oh I see it.
 
4:47 PM
@CatPlusPlus Right, delegate to the stick! Like a boss.
 
Who, what, where?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I considered making a backreference to that (*) but I preferred not making it explicit. It's a trap to see if someone really has read the important stuff (not just the list).
 
Yeah. My first instinct when I see one of those is to grep for it immediately.
Though Boost ranges are really just pairs of iterators. The ranges from Alexandrescu's presentation have no iterators in sight.
Don't know if that matters.
But apparently, some algorithms are not feasible with pairs of iterators.
 
Need some advice, I have a barcode string that looks like this `12345-678/A01*AA-11011234`

I need to validate it, but I'm stuck using VS2005 and no boost. Currently, I'm just sticking it into a `stringstream` and reading each field between separators into variables, doing range checks etc. Is there a better way to do this?
 
If you have no regexes available, that doesn't sound that bad.
 
4:55 PM
Yep, no regex.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah, if you want to do tricky stuff you first can use e.g. Boost.Iterator to match your idea to an iterator concept and then adapt that with Boost.Range. Let me see if there's a more straightforward way by looking at the Boost.Range concepts.
 
Thanks, just wanted to make sure I wasn't overlooking some more elegant way of doing it
 
@LucDanton The Boost range concepts are just lifting the iterator concepts.
> A range X where boost::range_iterator<X>::type is a model of Single Pass Iterator.
Things like that.
 
I watched that presentation about ranges two days ago.
 
Yeah, me too, after you linked to it.
 
4:58 PM
His rant on C# was very funny.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Not entirely true. The very basic range concept is quite liberal. However the algorithms make use of range concepts that closely match the iterator concepts. Given that the actual implementation is delegated to the Standard algorithms, that's not entirely surprising.
I.e. you can probably use Boost.Range for exotic ranges, just not the algorithms. No, it's not practical.
It'd make sense to provide functionality that everyone will be familiar with in this case.
@RMartinhoFernandes Ah, I may have been too hasty. There does seem to be a close relationship with Boost.Iterator here.
 
Yes, I've been there yesterday and noticed that ranges basically provide begin() and end() functions. That's exactly what Andrei was going against.
It's not like I dislike iterators, but to be honest, I'm quite fond of Andrei's design.
 
Range objects are way better really.
Iterators are pretty limited
 
5:14 PM
I bet Stepanov was not amused.
 
Als
@sbi: thanks!
 
Looks like a tentative Boost.Unicode leads yet again to a derailed discussion.
 
Tbh I noticed there was an initial mismatch where people used 'string' to mean 'text' while others used 'string' to mean 'container' (like std::string).
I can't help but have the nagging feeling that having all the proper codecvt facets does away with most of the problems. (Not that those are easy to write.)
On the other hand, it's a discussion of just one candidate library. Apparently the goal is to wait until there are several candidates to begin reviewing.
 
Wouldn't it help to review the already existing candidate(s)?
 
5:47 PM
The discussion was an RFC from the author, presumably he's not ready for a review already. I don't know for other candidates.
 
sbi
@Als I just read your comment. I'm flattered. Thank you.
 
sbi
6:12 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes There's nothing about the concept of iterators that requires them to come in pairs. The STL could have come just as well with a iterators that combined operator++, operator*, and operator bool() const (for checking whether the iterator is still valid) in a single object, saving us the begin, end nonsense. The only reason the STL operates on pairs of iterators is that this is compatible with pointers. But it's not hard to come up with such an object initialized from pointers.
 
Als
@sbi: Its my pleasure really :)
 
6:29 PM
Is this how Java programmers write code? roseindia.net/java/example/java/awt/…
Why the hell did he or she create 5 unused buttons?
variable name sucks. Darn no good tutorial on the net.
 
Als
*polishes his double barrel monstrous gun
 
lol
 
6:56 PM
in C , a struct can't have data members and member functions?
only data member's allowed?
he @LewsTherin lol'ed before my question
 
Als
@MrAnubis: Thats right
struct can have data members though
just no member functions
 
coding in C is so hard 0_o , was viewing a guys code , it made me sad like i don't know programming :(
 
Als
viewing the code is a good way to learn, writing code is better way IMO.
 
@Als right:)
@Als what do you code in c++ at work?
 
Als
And don't worry or be bothered because someone lols you, as long as you learn from it you are doing fine.
@MrAnubis: Oh me...In my current job I actually work on procedural c++ ..yikes!
 
7:02 PM
@Als i meant gui designer , traffic software developer or what?
 
Als
@MrAnubis: Mostly Middelware
But then Yes I have worked on drivers as well as MMI before
 
@Als Awesome!
 
Als
:)
 
Men are from Mars Women are from Venus -> what a book name 0_o
 
Als
pretty much a famous book
Did you graduate recently?
 
7:07 PM
@Als 2011 :)
 
Als
I see...So you are looking for a beginer level job them I presume.
 
@Als yes , but the companies criteria etc dumps me sometimes
@Als did you read that book?
 
Als
@MrAnubis: Didn't you have campus placements or something like that?
No I did not
There was a movie based on it, I don't remember though if i saw it.
 
@Als we had only one company TCS at campus , i failed in written test :(
 
Als
I see.
 
7:13 PM
my bad aptitude:(
 
Als
Shit Happens..You learn from it and move on.
 
@Als it's like practicing aptitude is more important than learning something ( just like i do C++ )
:D
 
I love C
 
Als
You are in wrong room then.
 
Why?
 
7:15 PM
we sneer at C in here
 
Als
@MrAnubis: Indeed it is, You need to get in and have a job
 
C is the pathetic underdog of C++
it's like C++, but it sucks horrifically
 
Als
hey pup @DeadMG All fine?
 
no, but it could be much worswe
worse, even
 
lol
 
Als
7:16 PM
ahh..whats up with you lately? You used to be lil more cheerful before i reckon
 
@LewsTherin lola G.K
 
what's G.K
 
yeah
 
General knowledge :D
 
well, my life went to logistical, financial, and academic shit, and has only just started to return to normal
 
7:18 PM
@MrAnubis Ah come on that isn't obvious!
 
and then you need to add in all the other shits, like "romantic", and things are starting to get kind of old
 
Als
I see but Glad it has started to come back to normal
@DeadMG: You got bitten by the love bug or something? :)
 
yeah, but it really needs to be "back to" normal
 
@LewsTherin lol
 
no
that's the "shit" part, else it would just be "romantic"
 
Als
7:19 PM
lol
 
Who doesn't want romance?
 
also
WideC rocks so hard, I can make checked exceptions work
 
Als
hmm
@LewsTherin: We do but we prefer to skip to the sex part of it actually.
 
Checked exceptions? Is it like exception specifications?
 
yes, but compiler-enforced
 
7:20 PM
@Als Are you speaking for all? Why skip the sex part? xD
 
kind of like Java's exception specs, but they suck dramatically less
@LewsTherin no, skip to the sex part
 
Oh yeah misread that..again. God, what's wrong with me!
 
Als
@LewsTherin: Because that is the only best part of it
 
metaprogramming was actually a pretty easy solution to this one
 
I'd like some romance though..
 
7:22 PM
void method1() {
    method1.throws = method2.throws;
    method2();
} // guaranteed to never fail exception checking
 
And what if method3 also throws?
 
what method3?
 
Suppose that after method2 a method3 is called.
 
then you just add it
 
With assignment operator?
 
7:24 PM
no, it's a container
so you can do like, insert, etc
probably a set
 
Als
This is your coursework?
 
I don't really like it. I don't like checked exceptions in general.
 
void method1() {
    method1.throws = method2.throws;
    for(auto it = method3.throws.begin(); it != method3.throws.end(); it++) {
        method1.throws.insert(*it);
    }
    method2(); method3();
}
well, I'm not sure I like them either- but they are great at checking implementations which must conform
for example, if a container guarantees a function must not throw
perhaps I would add some easier support for it, like throwsof() or something
but I also invented auto checked exceptions, so that's fine
at least, that's the plan
 
I never implemented an error handling strategy so precisely. I usually throw where the error occurs. And catch at the highest layer possible. Then I refine where applicable.
 
well, imo, it's more useful for verifying specification conformance
like, if you say, "vector::vector(const vector&)" constructor must never throw except bad_alloc or if the copy constructor of the elements throws
then exception specs can enforce that, like type checking
 
7:31 PM
Yeah, that's how Java does it. But I don't like that lower layer code influences higher layer code.
I mean if you decide to throw an exception lower layer, then suddenly all higherlayer code must be modified by adding throws-specs until the place where the exception is caught.
 
that's why my code fixes the problem
because you can just throw "Whatever what I call throws"
just like how you can return "Whatever I call returns" in terms of types
the reason it's a much bigger problem for exceptions is because, well, they can propagate so far
 
I think the nice thing about exceptions is that you can ignore them and just trust the higher layer code to take care of it. (That's a great improvent over error return codes because those must be dealt with by the caller, even if the caller isn't able to deal with this error.)
Adding exception specs takes that freedom away again. Each layer must now specify a 'throws' exception of a type that may be totally not meaningful in that layer of code.
It find it very polluting.
And in Java code it often leads to abuse. People often just put a try catch around it to shut it up.
 
yeah
but that's why forwarding exceptions fixes the problem
you don't have to deal with them
 
If you don't have to deal with them then it may be ok.
 
well, it'd be nice to have the compiler back you up if you say "I only throw bad_alloc and what the copy constructor of the contained type throws"
 
7:42 PM
Yep, but how is it really different from exception specifications?
 
it's different because if you change an exception spec in the top-level method, you don't have to go waste your time in every intermediate method
 
So the compiler only complains if the error escapes main()?
Seems fine.
As long as I free to deal with exceptions only at the layer where it's meaningful to deal with then.
 
well, the compiler complains if the exception escapes somewhere you promised to catch it
the difference is that you don't have to give it an absolute, fixed list- they can be any types determined in any way, such as the throws specs of the functions you call
so if they change, you don't have to
 
I see.
 
whereas you can easily see that throws specs in C++ could never work, because if you're implementing std::vector and you say "The copy constructor only throws bad_alloc", I hope that the copy constructor of the elements also only ever throws bad_alloc
 
7:49 PM
So I can say: "Beyond here on there shall be no bad_cast_exception". But I could actually catch and rethrow it as a different exception type.
 
uhhh
not exactly
 
Oh, it's the opposite way around?
 
it's more like, "Beyond here on there shall be no bad_cast_exception, unless one of the functions I call throws it, in which case I don't give a shit. But, please Mr Compiler, tell me if I throw it like an idiot."
 
But if one of the functions does call and you catch and rethrow it as another exception then you haven't broken the contract. Have you?
 
no
exception specs are about what you let leak out, not what you do or do not do internally
 
7:53 PM
That would be useful.
 
it would
because if you're writing to a set specification, the compiler will tell you if you fuck up, but you still don't have to maintain it like the compiler will shove a baseball bat up your arse if you don't lick it's boots
 
In other words, a compiler error :D
 
yeah
that's the thing- exception specs have to be listed at every level of the call chain, but in the existing systems you had to do it manually
and there was no way to know what a generic function might or might not throw
but when you can programmatically alter the list at compile-time, it's trivial to automatically maintain it
even in generic code
 
But for C++ it would be impossible to implement this at compile time due to the differnt unit compilations.
It can't see inside the object files.
 
oh yes
that's why C++ sucks
it could solve many, or almost all, of it's problems if it ditched TUs
 
7:57 PM
I'm so used to the model that I find it hard to imagine not having .cpp files.
 
I met DMR this week
 
Not this again. If you want to remove TUs, then you need a replacement (modules, whatever). Then you have to solve a subset of the same problems that TUs solve. Also, templates.
 
@JohannesSchaublitb DMR who?
 
but only in my dreams :(
 
TUs are a feature and only a 'bug' when it comes to templates I think. (Which I guess reveals more about templates than it does about TUs.)
 
7:59 PM
even Java has TUs
 
They were originally a clever feature I think.
It's only when you want to enforce rigorous type checking that it becomes a problem.
 
I don't know a programming language that doesn't have TUs
 
BASIC?
 
does the BASIC compiler not operate on a unit of program text?
 
Hey guys
Has anyone ever seen that ad on stack overflow about a payment solution website with a mouse themed campain?
 
8:00 PM
You could have only cpp files and have the headers generated at compile time. Is that what Java roughly does then?
 
I'm trying to find it and I think I had seen it on SO but I can't be sure
 
Never mind, that was probably a weird question.
 
I got a Seeeduino for my birthday :D
I'm gonna make it open and shut my door when it detects knocks
 
I got a pijama.
 
@JohannesSchaublitb J&W Pascal
@JohannesSchaublitb original Basic
@JohannesSchaublitb javascript
 
8:15 PM
hmm
 
@JohannesSchaublitb i'm guessing also snobol
 
@JohannesSchaublitb not to mention BrainFuck
 
> Code Search, which was designed to help people search for open source code all over the web, will be shut down along with the Code Search API on January 15, 2012.
Oh noes!
I use that a lot.
 
8:25 PM
@StackedCrooked where did you find that? it's very sad. google should shut down something else!
 
They are shutting down other stuff as well. Like the "labs" page.
Google Code Search has been very helpful at numerous times for me.
 
why do they shut down Code Search :(
it was so nice
I nearly never used it, but when I did I was soo happy :(
 
Without Code Search it's like we're going back to the dark ages.
Prenaissance.
 
what is code search
Nevermind, I'll probably regret that question
 
In Scott Meyers algorithm on how to choose if a function should be a member function or not,
what does he mean by ;
f needs type conversions on its left-most argument
could someone give an example of a function that satisfies that ?
 
for lack of a VBA room can anyone help me here?
I'm converting a program from VBA and I don't know VBA, there are some things I need clarification on .
 
@ManofOneWay Assume an arithmetic class (std::complex<T> is such a class). Then you may want to allow the user to do c + 5 (where c is an object of that type). But if you allow c + 5, then you'd like 5 + c to work. The latter cannot work if operator+ is a member.
 
ah
thanks
Btw, a Vector operation Vector + float should be possible, although float + Vector sounds strange
still a non-member function is to prefer I think
what do you think?
 
How come addition is not commutative here?
 
8:46 PM
Adding a number to a vector sounds better than adding a vector to a number
 
Yeah, that's not what commutative means.
 
@LewsTherin Google for code search.
Code Search was fantastic for when you didn't understand how a API works and reading the manual was too burdensome.
 
mmn sounds nice
 
I remember writing an NSIS installer where I used a plugin that enabled adding a directory to the PATH variable when installing, and removing it again on uninstall. The API was buggy though and changed the PATH into a corrupt mess. Very close to the deadline and desparate I resorted to Google Code Search to see how others used the plugin.
 
8:58 PM
NP complete!
 
No Problem, I am complete?
 
@StackedCrooked nah , non-deterministic polynomial
:D was just random thought
 

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