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12:00 AM
Like I said, other than me teaching lmgtfy, I haven't seen a command taught in weeks :/
4 minutes is a bit of an exaggeration
(Think I used oxymoron wrong there)
 
!!/listcommands 2
 
@Zirak ln, meaw, heybabe, protip, slidepoop, zirak_naked, commandyourself, foo, test, loktar, gayclubs, rickroll, roryroll, gimmeakitten, regtest, lucky, tgif, artisticpoop, censorship, gm, mustache, nudge, mute, unmute, spec, stat, summon, unsummon, timer, todo, undo, weather, welcome, wiki, youtube (page 2/2)
 
!!/gayclubs
 
Mar 18 at 20:08, by Loktar
I've been to gay clubs more than regular clubs lol
 
!!/loktar
 
12:01 AM
May 23 at 15:55, by Loktar
@okok lol Ive been to the gay club many times
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum loktar: User-taught command: <> http://chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/9587178#9587178
 
!!/info gm
 
@Zirak Command gm, created by Octavian Damiean on Tue, 28 May 2013 01:20:32 GMT but hasn't been used yet
 
Haha, I don't remember teaching the bot that :)
 
12:02 AM
!!/gm
 
0 - http://schacon.github.io/git0.html
0 - http://schacon.github.io/git0.html
 
better now i think
 
So, "in weeks" means "since May 28th"
@BenjaminGruenbaum Editing messages imposes a technical challenge, not a design one.
 
Still, that's oinly one notification
 
12:04 AM
@Zirak I know
 
So I'd rather deal with what I can deal right now
@Gacnt But it's a useless and spammy one
 
Like I said
> only if you feel like implementing.
The invocation pattern doesn't seem like a big deal to me.
 
@Zirak Seems you've already made up your mind about the issue, so I'll leave it alone ;)
 
@rlemon 2d array :( Nice work though :)
Play it with gravity_y 1, much cooler
 
@rlemon is that the song I linked?
 
12:06 AM
no
find me ogg!
 
@Gacnt About the points you've raised, yes. I agree that it's a problem. I disagree that it's a serious one. If you've got anything else, maybe something to enlighten me or add to it, you know where I am.
 
@rlemon better with gravity_y 0.1
 
yea I was playing with .05 earlier
it was nice with daybreak
 
I think it can get considerably faster with 2d arrays, v8 does a lot better with those in this sort of scenario :) I'll fork it later tomorrow if I have time
Very nice work btw
 
ty
 
12:11 AM
What's FFT in your code? Is that an actual DFT?
 
@rlemon use the FFT from the Web Audio API, not dsp.js
 
What I was asking is, what that an actual Fourier transform?
 
Nifty ^^
 
But @rlemon, it's built into the AnalyzerNode of the API, it's WAY faster
 
12:13 AM
Where is the FFT actually performed?
I can't find the source, nor do I see any imaginary numbers anywhere
 
@phenomnomnominal I literally know nothing about Audio API so ripped that code from loktar and adapted it to my needs
 
Oh sweet haha
 
@rlemon A Fourier transform is a beautiful thing :)
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum, it's in the library
DFT.prototype.forward = function(buffer) { ...
 
The fact you can do a discrete Fourier transform in O(n log n) based on that awesome recursive formula is nifty, and the fact it's so useful is even more nifty :)
Imaginary numbers are pretty swell, but I think it's the first time any CS student (or physics student for that manner, in the non-discrete case) sees an actual use for them :)
@phenomnomnominal What library?
 
12:16 AM
Yeah absolutely
DSP.js included the the HTML in @rlemon's fiddle
 
( I know very little about the HTML5 audio API, I just really like Fourier transforms)
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum, the Fourier Transform was the moment that everything came together for me
 
yea you can't include from github anymore so I had to c&p the lib into the html
 
music, maths, physics, and how useful they are when put together
 
Oh wow, I just noticed there's a whole library in the HTML part of the fiddle, I didn't even bother checking there :)
 
12:17 AM
@BenjaminGruenbaum's been drinkin' ;)
 
:)
@phenomnomnominal Yeah, it's that moment when you suddenly feel all that calculus has practical meaning :)
(Especially in the non-discrete case, but FFT is a beautiful (and simple!) algorithm on its own)
 
Yeah absolutely, when sampling theory and dirac delta functions and convolution and everything suddenly make sense
^ another good tut
 
Yeah, I remember being taught convolutions at first, that made no sense, why would I look at that integral? I initially learned it in pure math to prove a theorem, but when we learned it in probability and CS, everything connected :)
 
around 9 minutes it gets really good
 
Fuck maths is so damn cool.
 
12:21 AM
The convolution vector, at least in the discrete case, is FFT, that was a mind=blown moment for me.
Math is cool :)
Dat amplitude-frequency
 
It opens up such a cool set of problems
Just knowing you can get the set of frequencies that make up a signal.
 
@rlemon In case you're interested in the (basic) discrete case you're using (and why it works) and have a basic understanding of what an imaginary number is, and what a root unit root of unity you can find FFT (and proof of why the algorithm works) here (it'll work on the second attempt), it's on page 75
If you have any questions about it, feel free to ask :)
 
needs a login.
 
@rlemon (works on the second attempt :P)
 
saved
;) will read when not drinking
 
12:26 AM
@rlemon can it be an mp3 or mp4
 
@rlemon You've been drinking?
 
@rlemon, man my laptop is struggling with it haha
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum friday night :)
 
@rlemon I'll take that as a yes. That's the correct answer by the way :)
 
12:29 AM
Bah, you guys all in the past
It's not even Saturday morning anymore here
 
@phenomnomnominal You man, you're in the future
Eating space ice cream, and meal-in-a-pill
 
and we STILL don't have hoverboards
 
Damn you back to the future!
 
Surely they must be feasible
Some sort of mag-lev skate park
 
12:31 AM
@BenjaminGruenbaum, that whole series is really good, there's 4 parts
 
@phenomnomnominal Nice. It sounds interesting historically, but I don't see anything really new there, just thought the rest of the room might enjoy it.
 
Yeah, it's a nice overview
 
The fourth part looks nice
 
My mate at LAX haha
 
lol
@Esailija Congrats
Your'e on JavaScript weekly
 
12:40 AM
? =D
 
This came in the mail :P
 
o i c
I thought it was posted on hacker news
cos I suddenly got a stream of upvotes on that
 
It was but JS Weekly means it just got a lot more popular
 
!? it was on hacker news too !? link?
 
Yeah, I saw it on HN, but I got a link to it, I didn't see it on the front-page
 
12:42 AM
do you remember how the title was worded?
 
Nope, sorry, nor do I have a link to it here :/ The best I can do is find it when I'm Monday at work, sorry.
JS Weekly is a pretty big deal though!
 
btw it is very depressing to read disassembly of tightly optimized bitwise code
it still contains tons of bounds checking etc
I can't get rid of them :(
 
@Esailija Hah, my job a few years ago (6) used to involve reading a lot of .swf byte-code and doing stuff with it, I have to admit, some of it was fun.
 
    function hashInt( i ) {
        var j = i | 0;
        return ( seedTable[ ( j & 0xFF) ] ) ^
            ( ( seedTable[ ( ( j >> 8 ) & 0xFF ) | 0x100 ] >> 1) ^
            ( ( seedTable[ ( ( j >> 16 ) & 0xFF ) | 0x200 ] >> 2) ^
            ( ( seedTable[ ( j >>> 24 ) | 0x300 ] >> 3) ^
            seedTable[ 0 ] ) ) );
    }
this is compiled to 70 instructions, of which 20 are useless checking
(70 instructions that will actually run, 400 of them are useless because they are never reached with my code)
although the typed array access is optimized perfectly
 
You should learn the operator precedence and not use parens for every operator :P
 
12:47 AM
doesn't affect the compiled code
 
and looks nicer
 
Yeah, but it's like reading Lisp
 
also the var j = i | 0; is not in the resulting assembly \o/
there was a readable version but I was able to squeeze out 2 instructions with this
:D
 
You could get rid of j anyways
 
it is serving as a hint
 
12:50 AM
@copy I often have 'excess' parens in my code because I know that the people who'll be reading the code don't know operator precedence by heart. I consider that good practice.
 
@Esailija Just wondering, how do you know?
 
Huh, my router is crashing?
@BenjaminGruenbaum Me too, but >> over ^ should be known (if the person understands bitwise already)
 
(Assuming bench-marking isn't the answer)
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I use the v8 disassembler
$ d8 --trace_hydrogen --code_comments --trace_deopt --print-opt-code test.js > code.asm
 
12:54 AM
> Much like a university would!
 
@Esailija Nice, I never considered actually compiling v8 with disassembler support, but I guess I know it's there :)
 
here's awesome presentation about it lanyrd.com/2012/jsconf-us/sqxbg/#link-hytp
 
I should really look into it, I look at bytecode in C# all the time
 
@copy
 
@Esailija Thanks
 
12:55 AM
takes some time to get used to the boilerplate instructions of v8 after which you can recognize the meat
the presenter is the same dude who commented on my answer
 
Ah cool, and it's that dude who who commented on your answer today too :)
Ninjad :(
 
;P
 
I should really start doing that, I've read the v8 source, but there is only so much you gain by reading that once, a lot of parts you instantly forget. Looking at byte code can be really helpful (at least to me) from my experience.
 
yeah reading from source for instance it's comfortable to know that += concatenation and substr are optimized
but after that you need more
 
Yeah, it seems like a very nice way to not have to profile. I'm also very interested in VMs and JIT.
I find compilers fascinating, I should really be more serious about it.
 
1:00 AM
a fun way to learn is to invent your own DSL
that will be useful
 
I still have to properly learn Rebol ( I started, but I'm not good enough yet!)
 
I was working on a DSL that allows you to describe complex form validation rules clearly and succintly
 
jsfiddle.net/rlemon/w84df/8/show - colour changing now
 
it would work from <script> elements with the type= attribute-hack
 
I started working on a library that can parse Rebol 3 code in JavaScript, but the University promised me students as help and haven't provided yet.
@Esailija Check out Rebol, go to their room, tell them I sent you and ask for HostileFork :) I think you'll really like it.
There are guys there, people who are (or at least sound like) Lars Bak grade, who'd just talk to you for hours and teach you the language because they believe in it, it's awesome
@rlemon Very nice :)
 
1:04 AM
ok :)
 
@rlemon, based on freq or time?
 
It really surprised me, they're probably the most useful room here, they're just willing to teach interested individuals for hours.
The only problem with Rebol is bureaucracy, the language was closed-source until a few months ago
So they're still figuring stuff out
@Esailija If you're working on an interesting DSL, I'd love to have a sneak peek
 
I got bored with the validation language
then I started working on a razor inspired templating language with proper auto escaping
there is actually really old repo of that in my github
but yeah it's too much work and with the angular-js and polymer pretty much making templating obsolete made me demotivated to work on it
 
If you're interested in interesting projects around here, the Dart room is also pretty awesome. Make friends with rdlowrey, he's a cool guy building something like nodejs from scratch in PHP, it's fascinating to watch and his source code is really nifty. It has a lot of interesting concepts from classical OOP integrated and it's a good read. He is running into the same problems the node guys did years ago, but you get to watch it in real time.
I personally dislike PHP, but his work is pretty nifty.
 
0
Q: Why do javascript implementations parse numbers this way?

ChrisDAccording to the ECMAScript spec the integer part of a decimal number should be either zero or start with a non-zero digit. A hexadecimal value should start with 0x. Javascript, in the major browsers, extends EMCAScript to include octal numbers. These are determined by having a sequence of digit...

 
1:11 AM
@Esailija Honestly, I think that if even after a year using Razor, I still have to resort to stuff like @: and <text> , something is a-miss. Also, I really like the way Angular does templating with mustaches (then again, I also really like Ember and Knockout)
(ember is very simialr with handlebars though, so that's no surprise)
 
well yea even after having the templating languages pretty much figured out I still didn't understand why razor requires @: and <text>
I was working on optimizations and CFG when I last worked on the project
afaik the popular js templating languages don't do much actual optimizing and don't have proper auto-escaping so those were going to be the strong points
 
More generally, I really like Angular, I'm still surprised the same "Singletons are pathological liars" Misko Hevery would build a framework that does service location, but Angular has probably saved me more time than any other single tool, maybe except jQuery when targetting IE8 -
@Esailija Well, with Mustache, I'd like to think that when doing {{}} in the middle of an HTML tag (and not in an attribute) I'm pretty much covered.
 
@phenomnomnominal pseudo random based on the force emitters and amplitude
 
I was really surprised to discover you don't have to escape > the other day
 
well unless you are inside style or script tag
 
1:14 AM
(Then again, it's not like it's ambiguous)
 
I can't find the paper anymore but overall 81% of the situations are inside regular html tags where the naive auto escaping saves you
that still leaves 19%
 
@Esailija I think that if you have to use templating in a style or script tag, your problem is much bigger than proper escaping. Then again I just recently found a good use case for sync AJAX, so there probably exist good use cases for templates in script/style tags too.
 
for instance the mustache demo has xss vulnerability
 
Please, do tell
 
it has href="{{userinput}}"
 
1:17 AM
That's pretty very stupid of them
 
and in fact if you do javascript: alert('xss') nothing is escaped and it works
and there are probably like 30-40 different attributes and 2-3 edge contexts like this
not just href and src
 
In general, if you use Mustache with user input in attributes, chances are you're doing something wrong
 
well you can't in principle rely on external escaping
it must be as close as possible
 
Why would you let user input in attributes, even escaped is beyond me to begin with. Even in CSS, I can't find a good reason to justify that.
 
> Your name. Begins. With "T".
@rlemon, from now on, you shall be known as R-bone
 
1:20 AM
entire urls is probably less common than part of a url
 
Donde, está, la biblioteca. Me llamo R-Bone La araña discoteca.
 
I think trusting a templating engine like mustache with user input in attributes shows a lack of understanding of what XSS is to being with :S
 
well they all claim to be secure
except that google's is actually secure
 
Meh, "secure"
There is no sense in being precise if you have no idea what you're talking about (John von Neumann)
 
that's where I even heard of context-sensitive autoescaping
 
1:22 AM
> That is our human colour wheel! It goes from Seal to Seal's teeth.
 
> You ask one lady if she's Tyler Perry in drag and suddenly you're the bad guy.
 
@Esailija I have to admit, I've read very little on context-aware escaping. Mainly blog posts in my RSS feed. I don't pretend to be knowledgeable on the subject.
It seems like something that would be very hard to nail right. A user would still have to know what XSS is in practice.
People do horrible stuff. They have escaped HTML code in attributes, and set attribute values based on HTML nodes' content.
The web is full of people who haven't heard of the term "separation of concerns"
 
yes, these were the currently recognized contexts for me
 
I'd like to blame some scrape-goat like jQuery, but I really can't. It's a generation of programmers who learned to do X but were suddenly told to use JS to do Y.
 
this is probably the most complicated
 SCRIPT_IN_URI_PARAM_ATTR: {name: 512} //Placement of dynamic data when inside a html attribute that gets interpreted
                                            //as an URI where javascript: is statically placed so the data
                                            //gets interpreted as javascript. The decode stack goes 3 levels deep: ATTR -> URI -> JAVASCRIPT
                                            //e.g. <a href="javascript: alert(@data);">
                                            //Sometimes used as an alternative for the just as bad onclick=""
that's a stack of 3 different parsers
for which you need to escape in correct order
 
1:30 AM
That looks complicated (but pretty straightforward to implement once you nail how escaping works for ATTR->URI and URI-> JAVASCRIPT) , but that's really as far as you can go. Is a user really has no understanding of what XSS is, there is only so much you can do.
 
true because it can only do its own responsibility
that is, it will safely do its immediate job of output
but after that you can just throw everything away by doing .innerHTML or something
 
If the user changes the script src attribute based on an Element's innerHTML at run time (and it's not like that's something I haven't seen done), well, there is nothing you can do to save that poor soul.
Aww, Ninja'd again, and I was writing that for a while too :P
 
and that's impossible problem
like
you cannot know if a piece of code will call innerHTML
statically
 
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's reducible to the halting problem or something.
 
so you can't be magically secure no matter what
you just have to know some things
and even then you will probably not be secure
like YOU can do everything right
but what about the OS and libraries you are using etc
 
1:34 AM
The important thing to take from this is that there is nothing that can replace proper education. You can't magically take a developer who has no idea what security is and let them develop applications where basic knowledge of what security is is required.
I think a lot of PHP proved this nicely over the years.
Completely unrelated topic @Esailija . How is Finland?
 
der we go
 
uncomfortably hot right now :P
 
I might have an opportunity to go there for a month and work on our window mobile app.
 
cool
Helsinki?
 
I'm not sure, it's just something that was generally discussed. Wherever Nokia are.
(I'm sure they're all around, but I have no idea where we were invited to, I'm not the one handling business relations, only the possibility of moving there for a period of time to work on the app was discussed with me)
 
1:40 AM
ah ok
 
@rlemon thats badass man, tweeted it
 
@rlemon so damn cool
 
thanks
 
still distorting like crazy due to lag if i have anything else running though haha
 
i'll work on that this weekend.
 
1:42 AM
@rlemon way cooler than fish :P but yeah, cool. I still think you can squeeze a lot of improvement from ram line caching if you convert your array to a 2d array instead of that weird thing you're rolling right now
 
the metaballs are great though
and definitely use an analyser node
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum that is what i'll work on this weekend :)
 
@Esailija does working at Nokia for a month or two sound cool or lame to you? I really have no idea, they don't have a development center around here.
 
I don't really know to be honest
 
@Loktar @phenomnomnominal found another song. cdpn.io/dzuyE
 
1:46 AM
lol js weekly is awesome
 
They are
 
@rlemon good because Im tired of the one song :P
 
@rlemon cough daybreak cough
 
I have only a 16 sec ring tone version
 
what do you need?
what format?
 
1:48 AM
hope you get featured
 
I find they usually dont add new ones on Fri night
 
To interested parties, another post on Generators from JSWeekly
I really like generators. I'd love to see async/await in JS
 
codepen.io/rlemon/pen/absgB this one is just trippy
 
Although, I find domains a lot more exciting, and I think catching exceptions asynchronously is a closed problem
 
1:57 AM
> The next person who offers me pity, or charity, will be mentioned - by name - in my suicide note.
 
@phenomnomnominal Can you mention slide poop?
 
!!/slidepoop
?
 
Can I autograph it?
 
Mar 13 at 1:40, by rlemon
(Random Fact, when rlemon was 13 he pooped on a slide. he isn't proud of it, but he felt it was time to confess. I'm sorry slide.)
 
!!/buttstuff
 
1:57 AM
@phenomnomnominal Command buttstuff does not exist.
 
ew just touched crusty poop on my cats butt by accident
 
topical.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Command crustypoop learned
 
1:59 AM
!!/crustypoop
 

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