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11:00 AM
@StackedCrooked I spend my time converting recursive algorithms into parallel fashion. So I don't like your kind.
 
funny cause I don't really remember having trouble with recursion
 
mawning
 
@TonyTheLion time to go to sleep
 
good night
 
One teacher told me to never use recursion. Except for solving quiz puzzles that are designed to be solved by recursion.
I like recursive inheritance though.
Even though it's rarely applicable.
 
11:15 AM
@StackedCrooked The teacher had obviously never traversed a file system.
 
I guess.
 
oooooh
 
There was one good thing about his teaching though. At least imo. He stressed the importance of modularity above anything else. He often rejected my code and I have to improve it before he'd look at it again.
 
I might have finally worked around the last annoying Clang codegen bug
 
At that point we were only learning procedural programming
 
11:19 AM
It's a big industry and I'm always very wary of 'never use xxxxxxx'. Somewhere, in another office/lab, some engineers are saying 'we have to use xxxxxxxx - it's the only way to solve our problem'.
 
@DeadMG You mean a bug in Clang?
 
yes
 
Clang generates code that is actually incorrect, (rather than sub-optimal)?
 
@MartinJames Indeed.=
 
Hmm.. tempted to post another episode of 'The Clangers' :(
 
11:22 AM
@MartinJames Rather unfortunately.
not in any situation you could possibly encounter when actually passing C++ code, as far as I know.
but when you're fiddling with the LLVM IR output and the C++ API, then yes.
if
 
I think I'll stick with GCC. It's only slow :)
 
1 min ago, by DeadMG
not in any situation you could possibly encounter when actually passing C++ code, as far as I know.
YAY, IT WORKETH!
fuck you Clang, I win again
 
Next week's big bout: 'Puppy vs. Clang, The Rematch'. Get your tickets early to avoid disappointment.
 
nah
next week's big bout: 'Puppy vs Visual Studio: Why you keep crashing when I try to debug'.
 
Good news - I found my shovel. Bad news - I have to actually use it. Neither of our cars can get enough grip to get out of the drive :( Soddin' snow.
 
11:38 AM
hah
turns out it wasn't a bug at all, I just wrote some bad Wide code.
this is starting to happen to me more and more frequently now
 
Oh, Bananaman just popped up.
 
you know
I think that, technically, Wide could be Turing-Complete now.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Deja vu
 
Yay @Ell
 
@Xeo Yeah, Clang has an annoying habit of crashing whenever you do something bad related to Clang, instead of printing a diagnostic.
so when the compiler crashes, it's hard to know wtf's going on
 
user784668
11:54 AM
ugh
 
user784668
The real problem is that you're using va_args instead of a std::initializer_list and/or variadic templates. — Fanael 4 mins ago
 
@DeadMG It's a suicide messenger.
 
user784668
@MartinJames GCC has codegen bugs too
 
@Fanael Oh, you're all full of good news this morning :(
 
Noticed a hiccup at 2:00. Rapping is really a strange activity.
 
Ell
12:16 PM
@BartekBanachewicz :) not sure why it's all red though
and I had to change map.emplace because libstdc++ doesn's support it yet I don't think
 
Lol, I just noticed that :!bash starts a shell in vim.
 
Ell
! executes shell command, no?
 
user784668
yes
 
Indeed. It's nothing special really. However, I had never tried it before.
 
user784668
There are plugins that add "real" terminal emulators.
 
12:33 PM
@StackedCrooked I noticed that in 1972.
I don't understand this mad fascination with old editors that required specially-adapted keyboards.
 
Ell
There are editors that require specially adapted keyboards? o.O
 
@Ell Yeah - with extra-large keys so that the dinosaurs could use them easily.
 
Guys, what are you using for unit testing?
 
Ell
Never unit tested before
 
12:49 PM
I don't do much either. System/integration test makes most bugs fall out for me.
 
Ell
I'm playing df and sucking at it!
 
I'm trying to get Android uTorrent client to not stop :(
 
Keep encouraging it!
 
Ell
tTorrent is good
also, I wonder when df 3d will happen :3 if at all
 
12:57 PM
now
what features to implement next in Wide?
 
Aparrently, there is a bug re. magnet links :(
 
my primary list is ... destructors, exceptions, UDTs, all of the other operators/primitive types/etc
template calls.
now that I fixed calling template instantiations, I should be able to create a std::vector<int8>.
 
I'm starting to like iTunes' smart playlists.
 
or call llvm::dyn_cast<clang::functiondecl>(...).
 
urgh. some stupid website I'm trying to download a .rar from has the MIME type or whatever as plaintext, so firefox tries to display it instead of download it...
and since it's a stupid download website, there is no direct link I could just "save as" :(
 
1:09 PM
one of these days
I need to patch up my lexer and parser
they're quite ... barely functional.
 
barely functional is the best kind of functional! except fully :/
 
well
in theory, they should propagate location information
but in reality, half the AST doesn't actually ever have it set
and the other half, it's usually wildly inaccurate
and neither of them quite conform to the interface specifications I laid down for them- for example, the lexer should be able to operate on input iterators but in reality, it's currently random-access iterators, and the Parser calls too many functions on the result of the Builder instead of calling into the Builder to do things.
 
That'd be easy with Parsec.
Hi.
 
hi
I guess I'll have time to patch them up later, when my barebones are done.
 
Can you open scons.org/wiki? 500s for me.
 
1:15 PM
internal server error
 
500 :(
 
@Ell that was intentional
@R.MartinhoFernandes 500
@Ell that's lame. Pullrequest the changes if you want
I have to finish this shitfuck uni project
after that I will probably debug chunks (finally)
 
Ell
1:30 PM
Also I will advise again to not use basic_if stream
the unsigned char is unnecessary and isn't required to be supported by the standard
I think xD
 
^ Lesbian sentimentalism
 
Ell
Just use a regular ifstream and char
 
(Nothing wrong with that :)
@Ell A char I can manage, an ifstream is a hairier situation.
 
Ell
But what is even harier is basic_ifstream<unsigned char>
 
@Ell Why not?
 
1:34 PM
How can I get an url to an SO comment?
 
Grab it from the timestamp.
 
user1182183
@BartekBanachewicz maybe you know why?
 
Ell
Because unsigned char doesn't have to support char traits by the standard
I don't think
 
@Antimony Have you read about the Rule of Zero? — StackedCrooked 4 mins ago
Rule of three fundamentalism today is embarrasing.
 
@Ell So you write one.
 
Ell
1:40 PM
Or I just use char with no problem :)
 
guys
 
Ell
And I'd say writing a char traits for something is more hairy than not writing one
 
As long as you stick with chars you'll be safe.
 
@Ell char_traits is pretty straightforward.
 
1:42 PM
@kbok What part?
 
I see no need to not support different ones.
And I see need to support them.
 
@StackedCrooked The th << thing
Although if anything else looks surprising/meh to you please tell me
 
It uses exception as return value?
 
Exceptions for flow control are generally frowned upon.
 
1:43 PM
No, it receives all HRESULTS from COM calls and if any of the calls fails then it throws an exception specialized for HRESULTS
 
Ah, I see it now.
 
ie it converts error-code error handling to exceptions
 
Pick the operator with the lowest precedence possible.
 
It's a fancy way of checking result codes and throwing an exception if it's an error?
 
yes.
 
user1182183
1:45 PM
ok fuck zeromq -.-' bugged as hell, reverting back to boost.asio .
 
Let's see... comma at the very bottom.
May get a tad weird, though.
Right above it, assignment.
Seems good to me.
 
The benefit should outweigh the weirdness.
 
No, wait.
You want highest precedence.
 
Let's go with assignment then. I thought about it but I found << to be less... surprising?
 
1:47 PM
@kbok Actually, it's not so bad.
 
Yeah.
You won't be using this in any way other than th << f()
 
However, you could also use check(foo()); check(bar()); etc..
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes what?
 
th << f() + g() makes no sense because it would operate on HRESULTS...
 
@StackedCrooked That was the simplest I could think of, but I don't like the extra braces
 
1:48 PM
@kbok I mean that you won't ever use it in anything that isn't just a simple function call. No complicated expressions.
 
Yep
 
You could also use foo() || die(); (Perl :D)
 
Ell
Coliru doesn't support my tablet browser proeperly :(
 
So precedence doesn't really matter much.
 
@StackedCrooked Except that would be && (S_OK is 0)
 
Ell
1:49 PM
But from the bit I can read, I can't see a new char traits being implemented
 
In C++11, you can now use doubled templates rather than > >, correct?
 
Oh wait you have to overload it anyway, nevermind
I don't like putting it at the end because it would be easily forgotten
 
yummy
 
user1357851
I forgot my car rego expired last week. Got $560+ fine
 
Ell
1:53 PM
Oh right I see
 
BTW WIC is awesome, I'll probably blog about it
 
I would probably prefer a mechanism that allows me to define wrapper types.
auto checked_foo = make_checked_function(&foo);
But there's overhead in that as well..
 
user1357851
10 years rego on the same car did no difference, I mean how many people did not forget their car rego expiration at least once or twice in their life?
 
user1357851
It's in the same month
 
@kbok What is that?
 
1:55 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes A generic image load/save API from the windows SDK
 
@StackedCrooked Talking about my thing with strings or kboks hresult fixer?
 
@Telkitty Wonder Lady kind of sucks..
@R.MartinhoFernandes hresult fixer
 
user1357851
@StackedCrooked my very first app
 
Is it possible to avoid running over obstacles?
 
@StackedCrooked They are all member functions though. I'm not sure how I would do that
 
user1357851
1:55 PM
I know it sucks, thanks for trying
 
user1357851
@StackedCrooked only from 2nd level
 
@Telkitty My first program sucked more :)
 
user1357851
@StackedCrooked well, this isn't my 1st program, it's my first app
 
user1357851
guess it is my 1st Objective C program
 
Ell
I need to write a BinaryDataCharTrait then?
 
1:57 PM
Is there some way I could produce a base class instance which would be converted into a derived type by the client?
Like item my_item = produce_item()
 
My first program that I wrote myself was badly written. But I had more users than all of my future programs together will ever have.
 
knife &my_knife = (knife&)(my_item) or something
@StackedCrooked What was it?
 
user1357851
@StackedCrooked too early to say
 
Photo & Video Uploader of a networking website that was popular between 2007 and 2010.
It don't care though.
@kbok I would use factory function to deduce the type.
 
The thing is
All the subtypes have the same data members (a byte buffer), only the member functions differ
 
user1357851
2:04 PM
@StackedCrooked lol did you sell it to someone?
 
No, it worked for the company and making that app was my job there.
 
user1357851
One of the people who I did uni with (same B.engineering, B commerce) did some plugin and sold it to youtube for a couple of million
 
user1357851
and I have to pay $596 fine for forgetting to register my car
 
user1357851
why?
 
Because you suck, even the law agrees.
 
2:10 PM
I'm thinking of something like this. Not sure how useful it will be in practice though.
 
user1357851
Usually when a lady breaks down and feels all venerable, this is the time where knight comes to her rescue? But I guess I am no lady and other than the few such as Jerry and StackCrooked, the rest of you are just pale skinned thugs >_<
 
@Telkitty shit happens
 
Ell
@telkitty you are a millionaire? :o
 
user1357851
yeah I wish, at least not yet ... Besides, millionaires aren't that rich.
 
2:15 PM
I'm as good as a billionaire given my potential.
 
I like trains.
 
user142019
In Zimbabwe I would be a millionaire.
 
user142019
Think outside the box.
 
I'm a millionaire. I mean the money is there. It's just not mine yet.
 
user142019
Hurray!
 
2:17 PM
I still like trains.
 
user142019
My compiler can parse type definitions!
 
Perhaps when you learn to spell, you'll have a chance of becoming one.
 
Now now.
 
user1357851
going for a jog. didn't jog for 2 days. Must be in the physical to escape the FBI agent should one come after my fat A$$
 
Just mix in with the crowd.
They won't see you anymore :)
 
user1357851
2:22 PM
I have been jogging everyday (except that time of the months) for a long time.
 
And your ass is still fat?
 
@kbok static_cast?
 
user1357851
If I don't jog for 2 consective days I would 1) feeling depressed 2) reach psychological barrier
 
user1357851
but I did not have the chance to jog for 2 days
 
Or dynamic_cast.
 
user1357851
2:24 PM
@DogPlusPlus maybe more round than fat :x
 
Round is good. Depending on the location.
 
user1357851
I have plenty of pictures on my (ill designed) site ... if you can find them :p
 
@StackedCrooked In floating point calculations. :Đ
 
user1357851
not naked pictures of course
 
user1357851
@DogPlusPlus not really, that's called loss in precision
 
2:27 PM
@Telkitty /facepalm
 
@Telkitty that's a bummer :P
 
Dat pun.
 
user1357851
really going for a jog, bbl :p
 
hmm
 
2:30 PM
Wide Implementation Episode IV: Clang Strikes Back
 
Well, at least it's not a prequel.
 
indeed.
apparently, Clang can only instantiate a template if the instantiation was parsed somewhere.
 
user142019
lol
 
user142019
@DeadMG What a worthless library.
 
2:33 PM
@sftrabbit why? people have to learn that accepting UB is not a good thing. You get what you deserve.
 
@bamboon I agree - I mean that guy's post is infuriating because he doesn't understand UB
 
@sftrabbit ah ok, that's right of course. People will go "gcc suckz".
 
@Zoidberg It does make using Clang kinda difficult. Everything that you would think is one step turns out to be five, and half of those steps require you to give it things like the parsed attribute.
 
user142019
@bamboon The code is terrible anyway so it should break. The author deserves it.
 
in C++, you go f<int> to get an instantation of f, but Clang's API maps something far more complex and far more irritating.
 
2:38 PM
@Zoidberg I am just looking at it and I don't even understand it. Don't know if that is my fault, though.
 
user142019
It's not.
 
user142019
It's the author's fault.
 
300×225 picture of person, 2304x1728 picture of duck eating bread. Typical.. :)
 
user142019
@DeadMG lol
 
@bamboon Not your fault. It's terrible. I'm actually impressed that GCC makes such a cool optimization.
 
2:40 PM
@sftrabbit I'm surprised that it doesn't just remove the function completely. After all, entering it would be UB.
 
> The reason I use C and C++ rather than Java or whatever is that I like the feeling of being "close to the processor"
hahahahahhahaha
 
user142019
Parsing a Zoidlang module is just parse module' fileName code.
 
@DeadMG Hell, just remove everything and make it output "Hello, World!" instead
 
I love this point of view.
 
It doesn't actually detect the undefined behaviour, it just assumes that it won't happen, hence the loop must be infinite :D
 
2:42 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'd say "close to the preprocessor".
4
 
I remember reading about a program that used uninitialized variable as one of the sources of entropy for creating SSL keys. The optimizer decided that this made the sum of all entropy sources undefined as well, so it skipped the calculation.
 
@Abyx he, nice one
 
user142019
@StackedCrooked lol
 
@StackedCrooked Nice
 
user142019
@StackedCrooked that's a terrible source.
 
user142019
2:43 PM
It's predictable as hell.
 
@StackedCrooked lol
 
Close to the processor. xd
I'm less than a meter from it at all times.
I feel nothing though. Am I empty inside?
 
Ell
Heh
 
He probably has the CPU equivalent of this:
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's a false feeling due to the world of difference between how the programmer structures and reasons about his code and the actually generated machine code after optimization?
 
2:50 PM
> At least when programming in C I really get a good idea of what the underlying assembly would be like.
 
I think it stems from "High/low-level" language crap.
 
I wonder why these people have ever left the macro assembler world.
 
That's just popular 1337 talk, people who actually work with assembly can't wait to get away from it. Maybe that's just me, though. Every time I work on a bootloader, I itch for a chance to switch to C even, let alone C++.
The same class of people "writes code" in Notepad because it's "old school", even though they can hit themselves in the face with their fist for the same amount of fun.
 
Ell
I write code in gedit
IDEs are too slow for me :P
 
2:59 PM
The one on the right is healthier.
 

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