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12:00 PM
i think it was about defining work item or something like that, no?
 
@DrTJ, no, sorry, I've used SourceSafe and git, nothing else. Yes, you can define work items, though I'm not sure whether you can break workitems down into sub-items - which seems to be one thing you were looking for.
 
I don't like TFS any more, too many problems with it
 
@LasseVKarlsen like what? can you explain?
 
Well, from time to time, and especially when running from our TeamCity server, it fails to "Get Latest"
A developer will complain that someone else must have checked in bad code because the changes aren't there, or are inconsistent
And when looking in the TFS explorer window, we can see that the TFS client knows that he hasn't downloaded the latest version of some files
Right-click, Get Latest, nope, no luck
So sometimes we have to force it to take everything, regardless of what the developer has already
The teamcity server periodically built the same version of our program for days on end because of this, until we discovered the cause for this
Now we force the TeamCity server to also get everything, ever time, which takes about 5 minutes
 
@LasseVKarlsen, time diff problems between clients? VSS had that feature :)
 
12:05 PM
So, you change one line of code, the build takes 17 seconds, but the "Get Latest" process takes 5 minutes
No, not time diff
We synchronize our machines against the same internal clock
And then there's the access right thingy
 
@DrTJ, just to finish our last discussion, consider this as a question title, and modify the body as appropriate: What is the best way to break down and follow project progress?
 
Damned if I know why they had to shove a whole SharePoint server into the mix
There's 3 places you need to assign developers rights on projects, and if you don't get them all right, and they're subtly different, you get strange errors later on
 
@Benjol yes, thanks. sure
 
@LasseVKarlsen, nice to hear all that. My boss is toying with the idea of TFS. Last time he was put off by the fact that you needed a CompSci degree and three weeks free time just to install it :)
 
Well, if you think that's nice (installation), take a look at the restore instructions: msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms252458(VS.80).aspx
 
12:08 PM
I've been using git locally for nearly a year now, but still haven't got a clear idea of how it would work as a team
 
@Benjol Unfortunately, I doubt we can switch to DVCS
Windows Forms designer isn't playing nice with the .designer.cs files
some minor changes and have you rearranged half the file sometimes, which will make any merge impossible
We will probably go with Subversion, and add the property that says you need locks on .designer.cs files
 
@LasseVKarlsen, to be honest, where I've really had problems is with the .sln files. A designer.cs file you have a chance of understanding and merging visuallly. Solution files are a total disaster... I've taken to just taking one side of a merge and then correcting manually afterwards...
 
Yeah, those are not fun either
And I don't like the Workspace system in TFS
Where the server knows where I have checked out files, and which versions I have
I bet the workspace system is the cause of the problems I described earlier
But it becomes a real hassle if I want to work on the same project in parallel, for instance doing a long-term change, and some hotfixes at the side
 
@LasseVKarlsen, to be honest, I'm toying with the idea of not actually versioning solution files at all. You version projects, then each developer 'mixes' his own solution depending on what he's working on. Pretty scary stuff, and I haven't actually tried it...
 
What about project references?
 
12:13 PM
@LasseVKarlsen, that is the question.
 
We are currently evaluating our "split" policy on projects
Originally we had 1 solution file, with everything in it
It took a long time to build, and intellisense slowed to a crawl, since we had something akin to NHibernate or entity model objects for our tables
so the data model project alone had over 1 million source code lines
So we split it up into framework (components, general stuff), data model, application
 
15
Q: Structuring projects & dependencies of large winforms applications in C#

BenjolUPDATE: This is one of my most-visited questions, and yet I still haven't really found a satisfactory solution for my project. One idea I read in an answer to another question is to create a tool which can build solutions 'on the fly' for projects that you pick from a list. I have yet to try that...

 
But this meant we had to cut some of the project references, and make them file references
 
2
Q: What do you do about references when unloading a project in Visual Studio?

BenjolWhen you unload a project in Visual Studio, any referencing projects get warning triangles on their reference to the unloaded project. I've written myself a macro to do clever stuff (detect add/remove of project and transform any references from-to file/project dependency), but I can't believe th...

@LasseVKarlsen, and? carry on, this is really interesting, because I'd like to go in the other direction - we currently have nearly 200 assemblies, and one solution each
 
Yeah, well, that doesn't sound very practical
But let's assume you can make a very fine-grained partitioning
the problem now is that you've taken upon yourself to do dependency management yourself
if project a references code in project b, b needs to be built first
and the whole thing breaks down into a DAG which you must enforce, otherwise you get strange problems
 
12:16 PM
Tell me about it! Are you sitting down? each one is versioned independently :)
 
like exceptions about missing methods
what do you mean? please explain?
 
ROFL, you are describing where I work!
 
Bård, is that you? :) (joke)
We actually doesn't have a good solution right now
The current state is that we have those 3 parts, and use robocopy to copy files from one part to the next
so framework -> datamodel -> application
this way, teamcity can reuse output from an earlier build step to build a new one
 
@LasseVKarlsen Each assembly has it's own solution, so we have to manage dependencies between projects by hand. But on top of that, each assembly is versioned separately, so there is a DAG of DAGs, because A may depend on B where A' depends on B', etc.
 
for instance, if I change something in framework today, teamcity will build that, and then the output will be reused for all datamodel and application builds for the next week, until I change the framework again, which doesn't happen too often these days
@benjol yes, exactly
we try to avoid this by just building everything that is needed, or at least we think is needed
so if I change the framework, the datamodel and application will be rebuilt as well, even though no VCS changes exists for those since their last build
this way things will be built with the right versions all the time, but it costs cycles
let me give you an example
if teamcity decides to rebuild application part, first it "gets latest" (what a joke), which is close to 1GB, from TFS
Then it downloaded around 700MB of files from framework and datamodel
dll's, pdb's, xml's, etc.
Then it does the build, which takes close to 20 seconds
Then it uploads around 500mb of files, the output, back to the teamcity server
it used to work fast, when the virtual machines we were on wasn't all that loaded
but now, that single build step takes close to 20 minutes
so we'll reevaluate it all once the current version is out the door
 
12:21 PM
@Lasse
 
we don't feel very agile, to put it like that
 
@Lasse At least you have an automated build. and you know what TeamCity is!
 
@LasseVKarlsen I succeeded to fix my problem with the WebBrowser
 
@Peter yeah? what was it?
 
The solution was to disable DEP
 
12:22 PM
aha
 
thanks for your help
:)
 
@Benjol Yeah, we're heavy on automation
We use TeamCity to validate checkins. If I change something in framework, which builds, but breaks the application part, and I forget to test that, after checking in, teamcity will build and run unit tests for me, so I get an email back with the errors.
And TeamCity actually runs the entire run from checkin to test version on our network, so testers internally just double-click on a shortcut and always have the latest version running, fresh off of teamcity
provided no unit tests failed or builds broke
I'd like for us to go with Mercurial
But the form designer files scares me, and rightly so, so I doubt we'll go that route
our solution files doesn't change all that much
but when a team works every day with new functionality in a new window, it's bound to happen often that they traipse into others work in the same window, and if merging then becomes difficult, then it might not be worth it
 
@LasseVKarlsen Honestly, do you have bad experiences with designer.cs, or you just foresee them? Admittedly, I'm just a one-man team (with git), but I don't think I've ever seen horrible problems. Maybe some manual merges from time to time.
 
I've had it with Subversion
And I've thus tried it with Mercurial
It's not better in this respect
I had worked on a project at work, but forgotten to check in
And then I worked on the project at home, where I checked in
When I get back to work the next day and realized I had forgotten, I tried to do a merge, and ended up destroying everything
I ended up reverting the whole changeset at work
 
hehe :
 
12:27 PM
Granted, DVCS' will handle this better, where I will have to do something extremely stupid to actually lose my work
 
0
Q: How to manage branch by feature with 'unmergeable files'

BenjolI'm trying to work out if it is possible to come up with a solution for branching by feature even if part of my application is based on inherently non-mergeable (i.e. binary) files. The only (obvious) ideas I have come up with: Keep a note of all changes and merge by hand Implement merge in t...

 
With Subversion, your changes aren't yet committed, and the merge thus tries to merge the changes from the server into your local (uncommitted) changes. If that fails, your original changeset is nowhere to be found in one whole piece
 
@LasseVKarlsen moral of the story? Don't work from home :)
 
For instance, if 2 out of 5 files merged successfully, and the 3rd made you give up, you don't have the first 2 with only your changes
Problem with that is that it could've just as easily been a collegue
With DVCS' your local changes are committed, and if you give up the merge, you still have your last commit from both places
So at least you don't lose anything like that
 
Yeah, I just did a git reset --hard ORIG_HEAD a few minutes ago. It's ok having a lethal weapon when you have infinite lives :)
 
12:30 PM
@Benjol that SO question is a really good one
 
@LasseVKarlsen, i.e. unanswerable, apparently :) Or the only available answers are already in the question...
 
Yeah, DVCS' makes it really easy to experiment without losing stuff
And to be honest, I don't consider the problem to be Subversion or Mercurial
One of the changes I had done was to move a button a couple of pixels to the right, to line up with something
This caused a chain-reaction of changes in the .designer.cs file
The thing is, those that makes the tools that makes those files needs to be thinking about VCS when they make the file formats
Take an example, Help and Manual, a product for building help files
It builds a "table of contents" file, .xml, so you would think it would be nice for VCS
But one of the parts of each node, where a node corresponds to a help topic, is the date of last change
 
excellent!
 
So if you go in and fixes some minor spelling, say a person misspelled the word "VCS" as "Vcs" all over the place
Not only is many topics changed (which is expected), every single line in the project file now has a change
This means that if you're using any exclusive checkout VCS, every change you do to a topic file needs to check out the table of content file
I guess they don't do much parallel work on help files where they work, the authors of that program
 
Yes, it's surprising how many people think that parallel work is something to be avoided, whereas actually it's just simply inevitable. Even if you're working on your own!
 
12:36 PM
Yeah, I use Mercurial now, I have a startup account on the fogbugz-on-demand system with Kiln
And I love it, I wouldn't change it for the world
 
Just saw your SO question on DCVS and winforms :)
 
Sure, I can foresee merge problems with form designer files, and solution files, it doesn't happen very often for me, but I'm skeptical with our current developers at the company I work for
We're not quite there yet with 100% planning, so I can easily see two or more developers opening up the same form to fix a case they've been assigned
 
@LasseVKarlsen, yeah, I was about to say you could have some kind of policies
 
Yeah, that question has 6 views, and a life of 2 days
Yeah, but if we just end up implementing exclusive checkout of forms, with another tool, did we actually gain much?
The data model project, with over a million lines of C# code, is actually mostly code-generated from a .xml file from a 3rd party, in-house system, used to build data dictionaries
 
See what you mean....
 
12:40 PM
So we considered this to be a problem, the data formats of that dictionary system isn't very merge friendly, but we could easily handle that part by just having an access card type of thing, we've done that before for certain things. Basically a laminated printed card on the wall, hanging on a rope
you can only work on that part if you have that card
But we can't very well make such a card for every form
And as I said, that's just exclusive checkout, done wrong
 
yeah, I guess so
 
0
Q: Could not load file or assembly

serhioI have a WPF control that uses a WinUserControl (ctlArretSelection) on it. this ctlArretSelection references an assembly (cllOperaStructures) that is referenced System.IO.FileNotFoundException: Could not load file or assembly 'MyNamespace.cllOperaStructures, Version=1.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, P...

 
@Lasse, do you mind if I paste my comments as an 'answer'?
 
Sure, go right ahead
 
On another subject, have you seen this? player.microsoftpdc.com/Schedule/AddToOutlook/…
 
12:42 PM
No, what time does it say for you?
It opened up in outlook as an appointment, can you tell me what time it says it is on your end in that dialog?
It says 20:30 here, I hope that's incorrect, because at that time I will be occupied :(
Or will they be streamable later?
I'm guessing that is my local time, I checked the .ICS files, it says 1130 to 1230 in there, so I guess it adjusted
 
Same time for me, so I fear that is correct, and not sure my kids will be in bed by then either :(
I would expect them to be streamable after
 
Hope so, have you read Eric's latest blogs about CPS?
Makes you wonder ... :)
 
yes, (I was just about to ask you the same question). See here
Sorry, there's quite a breadcrumb trail there, you may never return :)
 
hehe
With the "compiler as a service", I think CPS would fit nicely into something like that
If the compiler automatically chopped up all flow control into CPS constructs, you would get nice portions of code where you could inject or wrap aspects and similar
For instance, a for-loop expressed in CPS would probably be easier to analyze for automatic parallelism
But I haven't considered it all that much yet, I've read Eric's blog entries, but not much more than
 
Having read blog post 5, I think I wasn't too far off track, the only mystery is what the sugar will look like, and whether it will open the door to more stuff
 
1:00 PM
Eric Lippert's stuff is so far above my head, it's hard to see its relevance to day-in/day-out coding.
But I try my best to follow it.
 
@GeorgeStocker I read it just to 'expand'/'explode' my mind. This is the first time I think I've more than 60% understood - and that's only because I've been playing with F# for a while
 
@benjol yea, I get between 35%-50% through his stuff.
When I rate my skills against his, I'm about a 1-10.
1 (out of) 10.
 
@GeorgeStocker bad idea, that :)
This is the kind of post that completely loses me : blogs.msdn.com/b/ericlippert/archive/2010/10/04/…
 
i made it halfway through post #1 before I floundered.
Ok, that's not entirely true; but close enough.
 
I think the way he engages with the community is fabulous though, like Brian for F#
 
1:10 PM
Yea.
The Byte Order Mark strikes again!
 

 
8
Q: XML - Data At Root Level is Invalid

George StockerI have an XSD file that is encoded in UTF-8, and any text editor I run it through doesn't show any character at the beginning of the file, but when I pull it up in Visual Studio's debugger, I clearly see an empty box in front of the file. I also get the error: Data at the root level is inv...

I had that issue two years ago with XML generated by Microsoft; now I'm having it by an XML file generated by DevExpress.
And of course now I'm getting an exception when devExpress tries to read it back in because of the BOM.
brb. Firefox upgrade.
 
Back in the day I had problems with utf-8, asp and FileSystemObject. I had a Stripyp function which went lookup for ÿþ at the beginning of the string. Yuck!
 
1:33 PM
can someone tell me wht the question mark and : mean in this line?
_status = (!hf_StatusID.Value.Equals(New) && !hf_StatusID.Value.Equals(Pending) && !hf_StatusID.Value.Equals(Cancelled)) ? Closed : hf_StatusID.Value;
 
In computer programming, ?: is a ternary operator that is part of the syntax for a basic conditional expression in several programming languages. It is commonly referred to as the conditional operator. It originally comes from BCPL, which equivalent syntax for e1 ? e2 : e3 was e1 -> e2, e3. Languages derived from BCPL tend to feature this operator. Conditional assignment ?: is used as follows: condition ? value if true : value if false The condition is evaluated true or false as a Boolean expression. On the basis of the evaluation of the Boolean condition, the entire expression retur...
in other words, if ? then : else
 
Thanks. If I understand correctly if those conditions are met then the value of hf_StatusID is set to close?
 
yup
 
Thanks, I appreciate it.
 
you're welcome, operators are notoriously hard to search for
 
1:43 PM
hi
 
No kidding. That one was really messing with me beause I've never seen a variable set like that.
 
first time in chat room
is it ok to ask questions there ? or the theme is fixed
 
@Infotech, here's a little list to keep you occupied :) stackoverflow.com/search?q=ternary+operator
@John, in this room, you can ask vague questions more-or-less related to C#
if you have a precise, non-subjective question which could ultimately benefit others, you should ask it on StackOverflow
 
ok
 
you always have the venerable series of |= and ^= to compress bit arrays
 
1:45 PM
you can always paste the link here
 
then, this is my quesiton
my application contains some Actions and Delegates
 
Thanks, Ben. I'll check it out.
 
and i find it very hard to trace the flow of execution
because the call stak is very limited
the delegates are "jumps" in the code, no linear execution
 
yeees...
 
wondering if there was something known to help
 
1:47 PM
@John, wait for this player.microsoftpdc.com/Schedule/AddToOutlook/…? (half joke)
 
why ?
it is a dream ?
 
well, judging by hints of Eric Lippert's blog, they are cooking up something which should alleviate the kind of pain your experiencing.
In the short term, that's not going to help you though. The only thing I can suggest is: breakpoints (you can use breakpoints to do Console.WriteLine, by the way), and potentially trying to rewrite you code with events, if that's easier to follow
what kind of thing are you doing?
 
well, i'm using WPF, MVVM
very nice
but all these stuffs add so many layers and indirections
that it is hard to understand when there is a bug
i my app, i can't find why a piece of my code is called
or not
because it is always called via a delegate
so the call stack when i break there
is one line only...
if you come from a delegate or so, then you're past is reduced to 1
record
 
@John, maybe related, but not particularly nice:
1
Q: How to get information about an exception raised by the target of Control.Invoke

BenjolI have a 'generic' boiler plate static method for checking for InvokeRequired and invoking an associated action accordingly. If an unhandled exception is raised by the action, the stack trace isn't much help because it starts from here. I can get information about the control, but that isn't alw...

Maybe not, I think there I had the opposite problem
 
2:11 PM
0
Q: C# Generics Inheritance

LnDCobraI have the following class public class AccountingBase<TItemType> where TItemType : AccountingItemBase And in my AccountingItemBase i have the following property: public virtual AccountingBase<AccountingItemBase> Parent { get; set; } in my AccountingBase, I am trying to do the f...

 
@LnDCobra ~ I'm chasing a pipedream there, but I'm curious about the namespacing ...
 
@drachenstern lol, whats wrong with it? (i'm not the best at naming things) basically its a base calss for items such as Invoices/Pro Forma Invoices/ Purchase Orders which have near identical fields....
@drachenstern Any other suggestions for those type of documents are more then welcome!!! It's the only name I could come up with
 
@LnDCobra /facepalm moment ... and now Jon Skeet answered you so I suppose you're good to go ;)
 
if Jon finds chat, the internet is going to implode.
 
2:27 PM
lol
 
@entens, he found it, said nothing, and left :)
 
That raises the question: does the subtext There can be only one apply to C# or Jon Skeet?
 
2:43 PM
there is only one instance of both.. So my argument is, both?
 
Small question, is there any way to tell a Thread which thread to call back on? I'd like to do the InvokeRequired close to where I'm starting the thread...
 
3:03 PM
@entens If you can think of a better tagline, please do. That tagline was created when there was two C# rooms (for some reason)
 
C# ~ Because what other language are you going to write in?
@Benjol ~ I don't think I've ever heard that question. I bet if you post it on SO tho and tag it with Jon-Skeet-Please-Hear-Me or something ;)
@Benjol ~ I figured that callbacks went to their own thread or processed as anonymous on the main
 
@Benjol You can use SynchronizationContext, if you're always looking for a way for the thread to post back to the calling UI thread.
@Benjol Hard to give a better answer with out more details though.
 
@pete +1
 
/me has always wondered why no one implemented a SynchronizationContext subclass for Gtk#... would have made my life a lot easier a few years ago if 1) I'd known about it, 2) it'd been implemented.
 
Im going to throw my computer out of the window, when i run my app i get illegal access to loading collection, but when i debug it step by step it works fine. I'm using NHibernate, anyone have any pointers what i might be looking for?
 
3:13 PM
@LnDCobra sadly no
but I feel your pain
 
Hello
 
going to restart my pc and hope everything works fine after.... lol, i need a break!
 
@LasseVKarlsen The latest one seemed mostly like a reconstruction of the TPL
 
3:45 PM
@LnDCobra 0x80042134 0x7481823 0x38438713
 
Dohohoho
 
does anybody else feel the love when your boss gives you vague integration assignments and says "just make it work, look it's already been done" and those integrations are against mostly irrelevant sources ... I think this is one of those assignments where I'm supposed to break down and cry (but I won't) for help
 
@drachenstern you mean like interfacing Sharepoint lists with an AS/400?
 
@entens uh sure ;) ... not been given that particular task before ... so long as you don't have to resort to a lot of COBOL, I suppose that might be ok . . . ;)
 
just remember, CSV is the universal database.
 
3:54 PM
except I'm doing database work and we don't have source control setup on our databases yet (but we're working on it)
that is, I and another coworker are working on it as a side project for when we have time to get it in place
and then we have to get everyone else to use it
 
ah. copy paste source control.
 
@drachenstern Well, at least "make it work" is better than "I'm not a tech guy, but this shouldn't take more than a couple hours..."
 
and we're using SSMS, so ...
@gmagana at least he's also a coder
0
Q: Mercurial and SQL Server Management Studio GUI plugins?

drachensternDoes no such plugin exist? So to be clear, I realize that RedGate has their own SSMS SCC app, and I realize that VSS2k5 will integrate in. I'm looking to stay with Hg as that's where my source already is, and I'ld like to find something that my team can stay consistent with on their tools. As ...

if anybody has any ideas I'm wide open. Note that hgscc has already been suggested
I think I'm going to have to resort to a dual-window-maintenance strategy and use tortoiseHg with a SSMS solution and do it the "old fashioned" way
but I don't mind that. just that it's so much easier for my coworkers to look at pretty little icons now that I've gotten them used to working with it directly from VS (so I can make sure that they're at least pushing stuff to their local repos ... )
 
Is there a way to reference the parentthread of a backgroundworker (without passing it in as an argument)
 
@ChrisKlepeis Not directly, as it's a background thread in the threadpool - what are you trying to do?
You can always use Thread.CurrentThread to get the thread - but it's more a matter of what you're trying to do with it
 
4:00 PM
you could use a delegate ... I think. I'm not too up on my threading this morning however ...
 
I have a WPF application with a TreeView that works like the file explorer in windows. It loads the folders and files in a backgroundworker. I believe its throwing an error because of the BitmapSource that is binded to the TreeView... When I use "this" in a function called by a backgroundworker does it reference the actual instance or a "copy" in another thread?
 
it uses the actual instance
the references are always shared
 
ok, good
 
are you setting the BitmapSource directly?
(in the background worker's DoWork?)
 
yes. via a unmanaged call... pulls the BitmapSource from windows and sets it to a local variable in my class which is then bound to an Image tag in WPF
The background worker retrieve the files, creating new objects for each. Each having a BitmapSource variable which is set in the objects constructor
 
4:04 PM
you'll need to set the image tag in the UI thread
 
The error is "Must create DependencySource on same Thread as the DependencyObject."
 
either on the background worker's completion event, or via Dispatcher.Invoke/BeginInvoke
You actually have to create teh bitmapsource on the ui thread, too
the best option is usually to build the bitmap data on the background thread
but actually copy it into the bitmap source and set the image tag in the UI thread
 
I'm building the bitmap data on the background thread... in that background thread I set the file objects into a List<File> which is then set to the e.Result.... which is retrieved in the RunWorkerCompleted handler function (which I thought was in the main thread?)
 
it is
are you actually building the BitmapSource objects in the background thread, though?
or just making files?
 
Ok, just about done for my presentation on Mercurial tonight :)
 
4:09 PM
yes its building them in the background... I'm just confused as to how I can build it in the UI layer without locking up the UI process
building them in the background but then pulling that data to the UI process
 
You can't do that
you can generate the data - but you can't actually put it into a BitmapSource
since the UI thread needs to "own" the BitmapSource - all DependencyObjects that participate in binding have a thread affinity, so they need to be constructed on the UI thread
(which is annoying, but has been that way in windows forever...)
 
Ah ok, would I be able to return the bitmap from the background process and convert it into a Bitmap source on the UI process?
 
@Pete OK, thanks, I'll look into that. For now I just did the InvokeRequired/BeginInvoke dance...
 
@LasseVKarlsen congratulations sir
 
Chris: You could return the data as a byte array directly
how are you creating the bitmaps now?
 
4:11 PM
@Benjol fair enough.
 
Another question for all your bored gurus out there: are nested threads 'expensive'?
 
Using SHGetFileInfo to retrieve the Icon object then using Imaging.CreateBitmapSourceFromHBitmap to convert it into a BitmapSource
again, these are unmanaged calls to SHGetFileInfo
 
So - you can make the hbitmaps
but you'll need to do the Imaging.Create... call in your UI thread at the end
 
ok, I'll try it out
 
Can anyone help me with this:
0
Q: Trouble with saving a combobox value with Entity Framework.

Sergio TapiaThis question is pretty simple, but I'm not seeing why the code isn't working? Here's how I set the members of a ComboBox I have on my form: private void LoadUsersToComboBox() { ScansEntities3 db = new ScansEntities3(); comboBox1.DataSource = db.People; comboBox1.DisplayMember = "N...

 
4:20 PM
@SergioTapia dumb question but in this code block
private void LoadUsersToComboBox()
{
ScansEntities3 db = new ScansEntities3();
comboBox1.DataSource = db.People;
comboBox1.DisplayMember = "Name";
comboBox1.ValueMember = "ID";
}

do you not need to `comboBox1.DataBind();` ?
caveat: I work in webforms not winforms so there may be some syntactic differences
 
there is no databind()
 
thanks
 
Still stuck on this trivial exercise. I'm trying to learn SQLite but this error is really dumb. I have no idea what's causing it.
 
@SergioTapia what's going on in AddToDepartments?
 
@ReedCopsey Works like a charm... thanks for all your help!
 
4:26 PM
@SergioTapia I'm referring to this line at SQLite_Testing_Grounds.ScansEntities3.AddToDepartments(Department department) in C:\Users\Sergio.Tapia\documents\visual studio 2010\Projects\SQLite Testing Grounds\SQLite Testing Grounds\Model2.Designer.cs:line 89
 
4:36 PM
@ChrisKlepeis Glad to help ;)
 
Can anyone point me to a reference/tutorial on () = > anytime I search for this the results come back with nothing
 
ah ha! Specify zero input parameters
thanks Copsey!
 
@Benjol Could you clarify 'nested' threads?
 
@Benjol There is no such thing as a nested thread - a thread is a thread. Do you mean nested tasks?
 
5:20 PM
@SergioTapia Did you ever make any headway?
 
5:37 PM
Hey guys, O
oops.
I've been looking into building services with WCF and I've gone through a number of tutorials. Since I'm new to this, I'm curious about the benefits of using a web service vs. just POSTing to a web application that can return JSON or XML?
 
Hi @Josh ~ So what do you mean the difference between a web application that can return JSON/XML versus a webservice? The key to a WCF is that it's part of the Microsoft .NET Web Services Standards platform that most of the industry is trying to align to (including Apache, etc)
So if you write a WS application on .NET then you know that it will be platform independent, and will be more or less seamless to the connecting party.
But because they (WCF) generally run on a webserver (in my experience), then you'll still be using the standard GET, POST, etc (although it generally tends to be POST only in my experience) ~ You'll notice that I keep referring to my limited experience ;)
 
Future of C# in 45 minutes
 
Yeah - it's a don't miss talk, too
 
As for whether it's better to write to a WCF than to ... say ... a ASMX, that's a matter of personal choice, as ASMX are considered to be "out the door" (altho they are still perfectly servicable) and don't have all of the WS-* strengths
 
@Reed What do you mean?
 
5:47 PM
Just make sure to watch it ;)
 
I feel like a might be misunderstanding the capabilities of a web service, but my impression is that web services for the most part return XML or JSON. Is that correct?
 
But if you mean instead of writing to a .ASPX then I would encourage you strongly to write to the WCF instead of an ASPX. (unless you're using PageMethods in which case you're not really doing the WS-* thing in the first place)
Web services tend to return XML yes.
They can be configured to return JSON
 
Video quality is sometimes horrible
 
@Josh WebServices typically do - WCF services can as well. WCF just adds a lot of capabilities in that you can automatically handle a lot of things that are more difficult using JSON/XML - all of the serialization is handled automatically, etc
 
Yeah, exactly what @ReedCopsey is getting at. That's what I was trying to say. WCF is part of the Microsoft implementations of the WS-* "stack"
 
5:50 PM
I guess it's just that I can see myself returning XML from a web application. But the fact that WCF can handle the serialization automatically does seem like a benefit.
I ask because it seems easier for me to set up a web application than it does a webservice.
 
define web application
like an asmx?
 
Well specifically I've been using MVC a lot lately.
So I can very easily add a controller that returns XML or JSON
 
so who will be consuming the XML from the WCF?
your own app or someone elses?
if you're the only consumer then do what you're describing
 
It will be my own app.
 
if you're providing for others to get data from you then use a WCF
the idea being interoperability
 
5:53 PM
Is it because you can better expose the methods by using WCF?
 
that's a large part of the benefit of using WCF, yes, but that's true of any sort of web service
that you expose a WSDL
 
yeah
alright, yeah that makes sense.
 
with a controller you're not telling anyone else how to interact with your service unless they already have your codebase or some portion thereof
so ... internal app use only (meaning, developed internally) then controller
 
Yeah I suppose you'd have to provide some sort of documentation, and each time you made changes you'd need to ensure that documentation was updated or something.
 
external app use, use a WCF
 
5:54 PM
Makes sense. Thanks =]
 
yep, and on a webservice the documentation you need to expose is the WSDL
that using WCF provides the mechanics of for you
so you don't even have to do anything
 
yeah
 
glad I could help, as little as it was ;)
 
Haha well it's always nice to get the basics out of the way.
 
anybody on here have an SSMS window open all day everyday?
 
5:57 PM
There is a powerpoint file online for Anders' presentation
Haven't looked at what it contains yet
Spoilers :P
 

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