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4:00 PM
so they're transparent and on the end of a long pole.
 
Ok, I'm getting download speeds over 1.3 MB/s on my phone line. I'm happy :)
 
You're surprisingly well-versed in elephant masturbation.
 
that's my thoughts exactly
 
@sbi I'd definitely want to see them teaching each other things, at least as a minimum.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Saw a video on it once.
 
4:01 PM
unsurprisingly the image of a man dressed in a plastic bag sticking his arm up to the elbow up an elephant's arse was unforgettable.
2
 
TIL puppy has an interest in elephant porn
 
sbi
@DeadMG Ah, that would be culture then. That's pretty wide-spread among animals, you know.
 
@sbi Eh. I think there's a difference between teaching your child to peel a banana, and teaching them to tailwalk.
 
sbi
@DeadMG Up to the elbow? That's what it looks when cows are artificially inseminated. I'd assume elephants requiring a bit more than just the forearm.
 
It was a big fella.
 
4:03 PM
oh god, what has this room become?
 
sbi
@DeadMG Actually there isn't a qualitative difference.
 
@sbi I think he was reaching in as far as he could get.
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Who cares about squirrels? Elephants are more interesting. [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq] [fun]
 
@Papergay Once the capacity for learning is there, there's no longer much point in dedicating brain capacity to instinctive behavior.
@TonyTheLion Nothing different than it ever was.
 
sbi
@DeadMG Lemme ask google for an erected elephant penis. I bet those are at least as long as a human arm.
 
4:04 PM
@JerryCoffin different species have different limits on the things they can learn
 
@sbi You don't reach in to the penis. You reach up it's arse.
 
@sbi Oh boy. Aren't you at work?
 
@JerryCoffin oh
 
the elephant penis is at least two metres long.#
 
@MooingDuck True -- there should probably be a "sufficient" in there (or something similar).
 
4:05 PM
huh, I can't load www.reddit.com, but I can sv.reddit.com. (work filter)
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes In Europe.
 
@sbi I disagree. One of them is pure necessary survival. The other is just because you can. Not to mention that "Peel a banana in front of your child" is something that could be quite instinctive. Whereas I'm pretty sure that dolphins cannot possibly contain an instinctive trigger to teach each other to tail walk.
 
sbi
@DeadMG That's what the penis does, too, you know?
 
@JerryCoffin then you have to define "sufficient"
 
@sbi normally goes into a vagina, not an ass. Ass is an exit, not entrance.
 
sbi
4:06 PM
@DeadMG There's this famous case of monkeys living on a Japanese island where, about 50 years ago, one of them learned to wash sweet potatoes in the sea before eating. It's now a common behavior among them.
 
unless I missed something very essential
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion For species not walking upright, usually both end in the same orifice.
 
@TonyTheLion That was the original intent, but some homosexuals seem to disagree.
 
@JerryCoffin fine, everyone to their own
 
@sbi Right. But again, that's a survival thing. Not a "Because you can" thing.
 
4:07 PM
@sbi oh
 
@JerryCoffin the brain capacity only grows when it is needed and only there where it is put to use, afaik. assuming there was only instinctive behavior before, then at best, the brain capacity should only be able to handle them in future too.
 
sbi
So an elephant penis is about as long as a human arm: NSFW
 
@sbi That's non-erect.
 
> Sigurdur Hjartarson and his elephant penis, [...]
 
lol
 
sbi
4:09 PM
@DeadMG Underlining my point.
 
@sbi Right. I'm not even sure what your point was.
 
sbi
@DeadMG That's wrong. They did well before that one female individual found out.
@DeadMG "Up to the elbow" wont be far enough.
 
@sbi are you trying to make him go re-watch that video?
 
@sbi Well, it obviously won't be far enough to emulate sticking an elephant penis in there. But I don't believe that male elephants have a problem with generally having penises stuck up there.
 
stackoverflow.com/questions/9811573/… this question is progressing remarkably slowly
 
4:14 PM
@MooingDuck Too localized.
 
meh, my computer fan making funny noises again
 
Are you seriously telling me I found a bug in D within the first hour of using it? :) — FredOverflow 7 hours ago
2
D doesn't seem to be very mature.
 
@TonyTheLion I hate nothing more than noisy fans. Is it the CPU cooler, the VGA cooler or the PSU cooler?
 
sbi
@Papergay In principle, intelligence comes with societies. Species living in societies are very likely to be more intelligent than comparable species living solitary. Individuals of social species need to be aware of a lot more things. They are more likely to have more descendants if they are able to put themselves into another individual's place ("could he have seen me grabbing this food?"), and if they learn to lie and cheat.
With that intelligence come other advantages, too, like great adaptability, again increasing the likelihood of more descendants. That's how hardwired (instinct) behavior becomes software (learned). I suppose this doesn't fully answer your question, though?
 
4:17 PM
@FredOverflow CPU cooler, it's a laptop
@FredOverflow that's pretty terrible. I'm never going to delve into D then
 
@Papergay Well, I think that it's pretty simple.
behaviour which is learned is much more quickly adaptable than hardwired behaviour.
 
a guy I used to work with would always claim D was the greatest thing ever, saying stuff like "If this was D we wouldn't even be worrying about this"
 
and transmitted vastly more readily.
having an intelligent brain rather than depending on evolution means that you can, effectively, evolve at a much faster pace.
 
@JustinMeiners unless there was a bug :P
 
evident in our own dominance of the planet
we didn't evolve fire, we learned it.
 
4:19 PM
@TonyTheLion no kidding
 
@TonyTheLion To be fair, I'm not 100% sure it is a bug, but indeed I interpret the spec as if it was:
> If a ClassDeclaration has a const, immutable or shared storage class, then it is as if each member of the class was declared with that storage class.
 
intelligence is an advantage the same way sex is an advantage, although vastly more extreme.
 
@JustinMeiners D isn't the greatest thing ever. I am the greatest thing ever. QED.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm clearly the greatest thing ever.
 
By the way, is there a programming language called QED? :)
 
4:21 PM
> sex is an advantage
 
@DeadMG That's what they all say. I don't care for fools.
 
are you discriminating here?
 
I thought Haskell was the greatest thing ever?
 
@DeadMG you're not a thing, you're a human
 
Ow, that hurt.
 
4:22 PM
humans are things
 
D is being designed and developed by a very small group of people. There are quite a few others making suggestions and such, but in the end, it's all Walter Bright. He seem to listen carefully enough to Andrei that he's almost a second designer, but that's about it. That has both good and bad points. It helps conceptual integrity -- but makes it easy to miss problems as well.
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion Sexual procreation is an advantage over asexual one because it creates more new gene combinations per generation and thus makes a species more adaptable.
 
@sbi Indeed. Species which reproduce asexually are extremely vulnerable to, for example, new diseases, as they effectively cannot evolve resistance in a short enough time frame.
 
@sbi ah, in that way
 
4:23 PM
posted on August 08, 2012

Copy constructors are a useful example of language features that C++11 has made easier to use.

 
@FredOverflow Yes, sort of. More a complete system than a language, and nothing approaching finished though.
 
@Feeds ah, been waiting for this
 
@Feeds thanks!
 
@sbi the US is a prime example of my point. Nobody says one has to draw morality from religion, but shit happens. It's reality (although less so in Western Europe, or so I tell myself)
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion There's a famous case of some species procreating asexually in one lake, and sexually in another one, that's been linked to the existence of disease-causing germs in the latter lake, and their absence in the former one. Those guys need to be on their toes to catch up with the microbes' mutations ASAP.
 
4:26 PM
Have I ever said I failed Biology?
because I think now is the right time :)
 
sbi
@rubenvb Well, my point was that legislature is codified morality, and if morality is based on religion, then so will be legislature. What's your point?
@TonyTheLion None of this I learned in school. All of it I learned through being interested and reading books and articles.
 
> A useful example of a language feature should give the reader an idea of how &mdas; and why
@Feeds What?
 
sbi
@FredOverflow "...an idea of how — and why"
 
@sbi Seems I have a lot to learn then :)
 
@sbi That he dislikes religion and cannot pass up an opportunity to mention how bad it is.
 
4:28 PM
@FredOverflow I'm pretty sure that was supposed to be an m-dash.
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion Yeah. First you need to learn to like to read.
 
@sbi Ah, my parser didn't look far enough ahead.
 
@sbi I like reading, just not story books
 
@TonyTheLion You mean novels? :)
 
and I'm sorry if that wasn't clear before
@FredOverflow yes those
 
sbi
4:29 PM
@TonyTheLion Actually it was, but I'd like to tease you anyway. :)
 
@sbi oh, well you succeeded once again :)
Question is, how could anyone be a programmer and not like reading?
we spend half our time reading documentation/specs etc
 
sbi
Over the years, I have read a lot of books and articles about animal biology and behavior, because I have always been interested in that. Doing this for several decades seems to inevitably leading to some knowledge piling up. (Although I never noticed this before I came here, and you guys failed to know the simplest of things — like telling a bonobo from a gorilla when it is in front of you.)
 
@sbi that legislation based on religion is always a bad idea.
 
@sbi we haven't (or at least I haven't) read all those books you've read on Biology, and animal behavior, which seems to be a fairly reasonable explanation as to our ignorance.
 
@TonyTheLion Doesn't that sound like a reason to not like it?
 
sbi
4:32 PM
@rubenvb That might well be (or not), but what did that have to do with what we were discussing?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes No, it's the fact that the "separation of powers" isn't respected.
 
> the right examples are crucially important to many people's learning. If the examples are too simple, readers don't learn much from them. If they are too complicated, readers don’t understand them, so the readers don't learn anything at all. The trick is to find examples that are rich enough to avoid triviality, but not so complicated as to preclude understanding.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes not necessarily
 
I agree with Andy.
 
@sbi I don't know. You answered me with a message and I forgot the preceding discussion. I just dropped in to reply.
 
4:33 PM
@EtiennedeMartel You can't prevent a commit, unless you live in dark ages of centralised VCSing.
 
sbi
@FredOverflow In teaching I always considered finding good examples both crucial and the hardest part.
 
DVCSes forever.
 
@rubenvb Or that. But it's still quite unrelated to the point that you expressed disagreement with.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes OK. I'll read back now.
 
I learned quite a few things today, just from spending time in this room :)
 
4:36 PM
@TonyTheLion I hope you didn't learn from me that D sucks. Please evaluate everything on your own and come to your own conclusions.
 
(But seriously, D sucks)
 
Ugh, why do I still insist on opening questions about multi-dimensional arrays. I'll never learn.
 
sbi
Speaking of reading, @Papergay, if you are interested in the evolution of morality, you might want to read the books of Frans de Waal. They are most interesting.
 
@FredOverflow I did learn that, but I read the question and answers you posted. Let's just say I'll delay going into D for a while longer, for now.
 
sbi
@rubenvb I wrote that "legislation is an attempt to codify morality", to which you disagreed, basing your argument on religion. I am now confused.
 
4:40 PM
@DeadMG hm, should I just put the index/vertex/instance/constant/structured parameter into the constructor of the templated gbuffer? there's more parameters I need anyways, like the CPU access flags
 
@melak47 As template parameters, preferably.
 
sbi
37 mins ago, by Tony The Lion
oh god, what has this room become?
 
you wish to do all that you can to prove that the resulting run-time behaviour is valid.
 
@sbi yes I learned that too :)
@FredOverflow but that's sound advice, I like it :)
@R.MartinhoFernandes so why do you insist on that?
 
For all you know, I could be Bjarne in disguise, trying to diss the D language so it doesn't take over ;)
 
4:42 PM
lol
 
@TonyTheLion Because I feel pity for the poor fools.
 
oh don't feel pity
 
Ell
who is writing that cross platform build system?
 
those fools did it to themselves
 
And because I can just link drop stuff like this ideone.com/gytw7 on a comment.
 
4:42 PM
mostly by failing to read a good C++ book
@R.MartinhoFernandes I approve of this :)
 
@TonyTheLion Ignorance breeds ignorance.
 
@sbi Thing is, "morality" is a fuzzy concept with fuzzy origins and law is concrete and man-made. I don't think I know enough about the philosophical side to make a decent argument :/
 
sbi
@FredOverflow You are not intelligent enough to be Bjarne in disguise. Also, I can't picture him dissing D.
 
@Ell I was. But it's been stale for a while :(
 
Ell
@rubenvb howcome? :/
 
4:44 PM
@sbi Bjarne is not intelligent enough to disguise himself in a way that he looks not intelligent enough to be Bjarne in disguise?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes can't deny that bit
 
@DeadMG so, like template <class T, D3D11_BIND_FLAG bind_flag, D3D11_CPU_ACCESS_FLAG cpu_access_flag, D3D11_USAGE usage>? but does that make it any better than just having them in the constructor? an incompatible selection of different flags would still be possible
 
@sbi Do you have to take everything so literally? :)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes you don't show in the "samples" how to nsert a column/row.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Stop confusing me!
 
4:45 PM
@Ell Personal motivation/interest. I got an interesting mathematical physics todo, and I've been messing with my MinGW-w64 build scripts lately, so I had time nor interest nor "awake and concentrated time" to work on it.
 
@melak47 But you could error on them at compile-time, preventing incorrect behaviour at run-time.
 
@melak47 You can forbid incompatible selections at compile time with static_assert (or one of the C++03 workaround variants like BOOST_STATIC_ASSERT).
 
ah, ok. sorry, I've never really messed around with templates before :S
 
Ell
@rubenvb ahh fair enough
 
sbi
@rubenvb Morality used to be a crystal-clear concept, when we didn't live in such multi-faceted societies. In a group of 40 people wondering through glacial savannas, right and wrong hadn't changed in thousands of years.
@FredOverflow I am a C++ programmer.
 
4:46 PM
@FredOverflow Stop pretending that's not your plan!
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes He is intelligent enough to get his fun from less stupid activities.
 
How do you know? Are you Bjarne?
 
@sbi Or maybe his plan is actually working and I'm the only one that can see through his farce!
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus "I can't picture him..."
 
I'm humanity's last hope!
 
4:47 PM
That's what'd you say to get us off the trail.
 
@sbi I'm not sure sure that statement is as true as you make it sound.
 
Actually, Bjarne paid Walter to invent a language with enough shortcomings so people would stop focusing so much on C++'s shortcomings.
 
Revolution isn't something that only happens in recent times...
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, you are our last hope in the sense that we will exhaust all other hopes before we'd turn to you.
 
@FredOverflow Well, it didn't work.
There is no hope.
 
4:49 PM
@sbi Ow. Don't complain when you're first against the wall.
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus Well, that I am not Bjarne should be very obvious from the C++ questions that I ask here once in a while.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes shouldn't the move constructor have storage(std::move(that.storage))?
 
Shh, your secret is safe with us.
 
@ecatmur Oh shit. Thanks.
 
4:50 PM
ideone does it right: ideone.com/DO8Zq
 
My login procedure on ideone: "retrieve password" > get new password from e-mail > login.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol. Doesn't it do OpenID?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Why not just find your previous password in your email? :P
 
@DeadMG Because it's not in the e-mail.
 
you have an account on ideone?
 
4:51 PM
They send a link that tells you the password.
 
I never bothered with that
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes keepass.info
 
I am now changing the password to 123456 so I won't forget it again.
@sbi I use that. I don't really want to bother with KeePass for this thing.
 
damn some text is missing
one sec
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes I have to bother with it for everything. :-/
 
4:53 PM
@rubenvb oh, interesting. Failure in tokenization?
 
"123456" is a perfectly fine password for my ideone account.
 
@sbi from my point of view, intelligence includes the potential to be intelligent, not just the intelligent abilities at the current time. societal evolving is not learning new abilities (well it is, but basically), it is exploiting holding capabilities, which is forced by made experiences.
the fact that in an isolated society all individuals prove to have similar understandings of morality (and wont understand anything else as moral as they do by now)- what is also resulting in norms - is based on the fact that all members of that society do share similar experiences. if we assume that is true, it is possible to have individuals (may it be artificial or not) who do not confirm with the underlying morality of the society.
the fact that its understanding of the morality does not simply depend on the environment he lives in, but what he experiences in that environment, shows that there can be an individual morality. circumstances like these are what even allow us to be aware of such things like norms. and i believe that personal experiences have to be made before being able to do anything.
 
I see a wall of text that I'm not going to read
 
@ecatmur spaces make it work
 
@rubenvb Hah, C++11 changed the preprocessor.
 
4:55 PM
@ecatmur yeah to conform to C99... which is what that code basically is...
 
mornin'
 
@sbi This is the kind of account that I'd rather it have no password at all.
 
@rubenvb "foo"x is now a user-defined string literal, not "foo" x.
 
Kinda like how mailinator works.
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh. Now I know your email address and your password.
 
4:55 PM
WTF, Papergay only has 23 rep and can still talk here?
 
@rubenvb C99 doesn't have user-defined string literals.
 
@sbi You need the username to login.
 
@ecatmur the preprocessor runs before string literals are recognized by the compiler
 
Also, I use a mailinator address for that.
 
@FredOverflow only need 20 rep....
 
Xeo
4:56 PM
@FredOverflow 20 rep needed
 
@DeadMG excuse me, but to what did you respond with this?
 
PRId64 is a macro
 
@Xeo So I could be a meanie and downvote him twice? :)
 
@rubenvb Nuh uh.
 
@Papergay Click the arrow next to the message.
 
4:58 PM
@FredOverflow I can contribute 1. My rep's ending in 6 & I can't stand that :D
 
> 3. The source file is decomposed into preprocessing tokens (2.5) and sequences of white-space characters
(including comments). [...]
> 4. Preprocessing directives are executed, macro invocations are expanded [...]
 
@ecatmur so you can't ifdef a certain user defined string literal definition? Sounds fishy to me.
 

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