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9:00 PM
> The IDE (fully written in PureBasic) on Windows, Linux and MacOS X
 
@sehe Of course I can just use whatever IDE I wish, right?
 
I think I finished my list of gripes with crappy libraries: gist.io/3176551
 
I dunno. I reckon
 
come on, that's not a big deal.. €79?
I hope you're kidding
 
What should I know before I move onto POSIX?
 
9:00 PM
@n2liquid Kidding about what?
 
> Are all the versions always up-to-date ?
LOL ^
> Except AmigaOS which is deprecated, all other versions are released in sync, with the same features.
 
@Insilico About it looking good and worthy
 
What should I know in C++ before moving on from the command line?
 
@user1515422 Nothing
 
@n2liquid I didn't say it was looking good and worthy. I said it wasn't bad.
 
9:01 PM
@user1515422 ? gcc, make?
 
I use #define for version. :(
 
Not bad != Good in English vernacular
 
@sehe Really?
 
@Insilico Well, it was a pleasant experience back then
 
(Yes, I know, English is TRWTF)
 
9:02 PM
for me
 
When I watch videos like this, it feels like I know absolutely nothing about functional programming.
 
@CatPlusPlus So?
 
@FredOverflow Haha, I opened that too.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Don't hate me. :(
 
@user1515422 Well, you don't make it very clear what you mean, at all. So I'm just throwing the only things I can come up with back at you so that you can see the need to clarify :)
 
@Insilico It's not bad, but the fact that it costs €79 makes it bad, IMO
 
9:03 PM
@CatPlusPlus You don't use it instead of const, because const can't be used in #if.
 
@sehe Err, skill wise. What should I be able to do before moving on? (yeah, that's not specific at all)
 
@user1515422 "Moving on"? What does that mean - I have no clue.
 
Would one of you help me with this simple problem?
http://ideone.com/7kAJT - .cpp
http://ideone.com/Fj7O9 - .hpp
http://ideone.com/FFaka - compile errors
 
Why don't you dive in and find out?
 
9:03 PM
@CatPlusPlus I think what R.MartinhoFernandes meant was that if there's a better alternative in a specific situation, then you're an idiot for not using it.
 
Btw, ICU docs insist on calling codepoints to UTF-8 or UTF-16 code units. WTF is wrong with them?
 
@sehe Moving away from the console and getting into GUI-based applications.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Isn't ICU supposed to be a Unicode library? O_O
 
Not sure about initializing the std::array... in that code..
 
You'd think a Unicode library would get Unicode terms right.
 
9:04 PM
@Insilico Right. That's where I got gripe #3 from.
 
@user1515422 Oh. Ahah! So it has literally nothing to do with POSIX.
 
@sehe Did I say POSIX?
@sehe I don't even program on Linux, so POSIX means nothing to me.
 
4 mins ago, by user1515422
What should I know before I move onto POSIX?
 
@user1515422 POSIX is not Linux-specific, you know.
 
@sehe Oh, i don't think I mean't to say that
 
9:05 PM
The "P" stands for portable.
 
@user1515422 Linux is largely POSIX compliant
 
@Insilico ohh
@Insilico So I could use POSIX for Windows development?
 
@user1515422 You should. Well, honestly, it's your call, but it has the portability benefit
 
@sehe Beats the WinAPI
 
Why should you? For extra added pain?
 
9:07 PM
@sehe I just don't want to move onto it without knowing all I need to know.
 
The "P" stands for pain.
 
@user1515422 So you want to start programming GUI programs when you're 80 years old?
 
And "OSIX" stands for "we ain't got no vowels".
 
Most often, IMO, but the WinAPI has services that are hard to replace (ShellExec and silly stuff like that. Once you go all gooey GUI, you'll want native common dialogs etc.)
 
Anybody willing to help with this?
ideone.com/7kAJT - .cpp
ideone.com/Fj7O9 - .hpp
ideone.com/FFaka - compile errors
 
9:07 PM
@Insilico If that's what it takes.
@Insilico You shouldn't rush into anything.
 
A yay or nay would be fine. Perhaps you are tired of answering questions about C++?
 
@user1515422 ...So are you actually 79 years old? :-P
 
@Chimera You must be new to Lounge<C++> :-P
@user1515422 True, but if you don't actually try it you won't know
 
@Insilico No I'm not... this is Jim Norton .. changed my name
 
9:09 PM
@Chimera Ah, figures.
 
@Insilico What?
 
Rule of thumb: questions go on Stack Overflow.
 
@Insilico Yes, but I rushed into C++ and I want to fix that. I'm just asking what I should know before moving on(ie: smart pointers, classes, memory management, ect.)
 
@user1515422 You're not going to get everything right the first time. No one does.
 
@CatPlusPlus I understand that. But C++ questions are asked and answered here often... just let me know if you wish to help or not please.
 
9:10 PM
The only way to get good is to actually do it.
 
@CatPlusPlus Seriously, I watched the whole thing, and I have absolutely no idea what he was talking about.
 
@Chimera C++ questions are also dismissed here often
 
@Chimera I just forget that people can change their handle names on Stack Overflow.
 
@Insilico That's the problem; I always feel a need to get it right the first time.
 
@FredOverflow Have you seen the article about FRP with coroutines/arrows?
 
9:11 PM
@user1515422 Newsflash: You won't get it right.
 
Well ok thanks. I look elsewhere. Sorry to waste your time.
 
If you want reliable, high quality answers quickly, use SO. If you want to gamble and maybe get a useful answer, maybe get a good answer, and maybe waste your time, feel free to ask questions here :)
32
 
I never strive to get it right the first time.
 
The first C++ library I've written is a pile of crap.
 
@CatPlusPlus probably not
 
9:12 PM
there's nothing wrong with asking questions here, just don't expect too much :)
 
@Insilico Why would you even write a C++ library? :)
 
@jalf I'm pinning that.
 
@FredOverflow Because wxWidgets suck? :-P
 
@Insilico q.q I'll ask you this instead.. How long should I be programming on the command-line before I move onto GUI based applications?
 
9:12 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Pining? For the fjords, you mean?
 
@Insilico You wrote a GUI framework?
 
@Insilico Because many C++ libraries suck.
@jalf Dammit.
 
@jalf I'm really tired of explaining this to everyone. :(
 
@user1515422 A word of warning: GUIs in C++ suck major balls.
 
Chat is for chatting.
3
 
9:13 PM
@FredOverflow Sort of. It's a very much "written on an as-needed basis".
 
What's so hard about that.
 
@FredOverflow How so..?
 
@CatPlusPlus YOU DON'T SAY.
 
You'd think programmers would be able to do basic reasoning.
 
@FredOverflow Should I be using Visual Basic? I don't think so.
 
9:13 PM
So, how was your day? Objective-C is neat, isn't it? :P
 
@CatPlusPlus Oh please, it's not a fucking hard and fast rule. I've been here long enough to know that.
 
You guys aren't very nice to each other.
 
@user1515422 The major GUI frameworks stem from a time before C++ was standardized. For example, WxWidgets doesn't use templates and exceptions, and there is inheritance everywhere. Buttons inherit from four different base classes or something.
 
Moody is the word
 
9:14 PM
@user1515422 Zero. If you want to do GUI programs, then you need to try out writing GUI programs.
 
@FredOverflow Oh god.
 
@FredOverflow What should I be using?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes And there's raw pointers everywhere.
 
@FredOverflow And MACROS EVERYWHERE
 
Sometimes people answer questions, but that's not the point.
 
9:14 PM
@FredOverflow Gripe #4.
 
@Insilico I think it's safe to assume I won't be getting a direct answer from anyone here.
 
The nicest GUI library for C++? WinForms with C++/CLI.
 
@user1515422 That depends a lot on the question.
 
@user1515422 Well yeah. Questions go to Stack Overflow.
 
@Chimera Here's my take: ideone.com/9dCvr
 
9:15 PM
@user1515422 You should do the reactional banana in Haskell or something, everything else is impure :)
 
@RaphaelR. C++/CLI != C++, so we're still screwed.
 
@RaphaelR. Haha, you might be right.
 
I've asked some 4 things and I think all of them were asnwered, 'cuz they were short and simple
 
C++/CLI is terrible.
 
@Chimera Any reason to (a) use std::array there and (b) omit #include <string> in the header?
 
9:15 PM
What about the QT framework? Is that any good?
 
@user1515422 It's decent. But still crap.
 
Gripes #1 and #4.
 
@user1515422 It's probably the best you can get
 
@user1515422 Don't worry too much. Every C++ GUI framework sucks. Just pick your poison.
 
Also Qt apparently requires that you run a prepreprocessor sort of thing first called "moq"
 
9:16 PM
@Insilico There is so much to choose from. I'm still debating whether or not I should even be thinking about moving on.
 
@sehe So I didn't have enough braces around the array initializer?
 
@Insilico Between that and boilerplate, I'll pick moq every day.
 
@Insilico Yeah, it uses some code generators that you must add to your build system
 
@FredOverflow q.q
 
@sehe No C++11.
 
9:17 PM
@sehe I thought <array> was the include
 
@Chimera No, I don't think std::array actually supports that constructor anyways. Haven't taken the hard road
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes True, but that's more tools I need to deal with and I'd rather use C++ stuff to reduce boilerplate
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm pretty sure that's not true for this sample
 
@sehe std::array is a POD (or whatever it's called in C++11), so the braces will work just like for any C struct containing a C array.
 
9:18 PM
@Chimera It is for array, but not for std::string :)
 
@FredOverflow It's still called a POD, but what makes the braces work is being an aggregate.
 
@sehe Oh yes, I do have a string in there
 
I want a sleeping POD.
 
@FredOverflow Nice enough, but this is asking for std::array<POD, 14> = { { a,b,c}, {d,e,f } }; style initialization
 
9:19 PM
std::array<int, 4> => POD and aggregate. std::array<std::vector, 4> => non-POD, still aggregate.
 
You'd be so laughed at on the camping site :)
Bring that as your tent. Lol
 
@sehe Camping site?
I want it at work.
 
Adding inline images here goes like Markdown?
 
pastebin.com/x3ayq4HR -- I want to hear some criticism.
 
9:20 PM
@n2liquid Just drop a link.
 
@n2liquid Just link them.
 
@sehe thank you for the help
 
Make sure they end in .png, .jpeg, .jpg or .gif.
 
@user1515422 Use consts instead of defines
definitely.
 
@user1515422 We;ve seen that recently here, I think. I think some of the regulars are still on sick leave as a result
 
9:21 PM
@user1515422 Use values instead of new.
 
@sehe Whaa..?
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, I know I didn't have to do that.
 
I’m going to unplonk that troll. I want to laugh.
 
@user1515422 Honestly, that code looks like a more or less exact duplicate of some code I witnessed less than a week ago here
 
@sehe From who?
 
9:22 PM
I see your new, and I raise you my downvote.
3
 
Don't test against good().
 
@sehe I've posted it on two other forums.
 
@user1515422 Currently no time to dig it up. Should be packing my bags
 
@user1515422 Does it matter who wrote it?
 
9:23 PM
@user1515422 hackforums ?
 
@Insilico Possibly.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes std::array is assignable, doesn't that make it non-POD?
 
Are you prime?
 
@sehe And cplusplus.com
 
Hmm, no. Even.
 
9:23 PM
Or am I remembering the rules wrong
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Just like you, half!
 
@Prætorian No.
 
@user1515422 How about you not use cplusplus.com as a C++ resource?
 
What makes the second non-POD is std::vector.
 
2 hours ago, by sehe
@user1515422 only half
 
9:24 PM
@Insilico is it that bad?
 
@ManofOneWay oh cool, good luck with it. :)
 
And stop posting on crappy forums.
 
@Insilico What's a good forum? I know another thing wrong with it is the methods are implicitly inlined.
 
@user1515422 Stackoverflow.com? It's not a forum but it's way better?
 
9:25 PM
@Chimera that's not how you declare a struct in C++
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah I got that part, but for the first one ... I was under the impression that if you define a copy constructor and / or assignment operator it is no longer a POD
 
Wait. Why do I have clang 4.0?
 
@Prætorian But array doesn't define one.
It's the compiler generated one.
 
@Insilico Is it healthy to ask for code reviews like that in SO...?
 
@Insilico I like to help others on the forums I visit, and I would not be able to do that here.
 
9:25 PM
8 Bucky tutorials in and he hasn't used, or even mentioned, comments...
 
@user1515422 So answer questions on Stack Overflow.
 
@RadekSlupik Ooops, sorry, I messed up with the time machine. Will have fixed ASAP.
 
@n2liquid Not on SO, but I think there is a codereview SE site.
 
@Insilico Oh.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Nah, dont’t fix it. :P
 
9:26 PM
 
@user1515422 Why not?
Btw, wear goggles on Code Review.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Because I'm not very smart and everyone here has years of experience.
 
Chat oneboxes SE links now, apparently.
 
@Chimera you've made ImageInfo a variable member of Labels, of a nameless type.
 
@MooingDuck oh?
 
9:26 PM
Code Review is a cesspool of bad code.
 
@Insilico Oh, shiny.
 
@Insilico Long time
 
struct name {
   //stuff
};
 
@user1515422 So get better at answering questions. :-)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, that's a good thing, no? Not much to gain in reviewing stellar code all day
 
9:27 PM
@sehe Well, not a good thing for your sanity.
 
@MooingDuck ah... thanks my friend...
 
@MooingDuck You meant that @Chimera, but he already had that fix
 
I think I've got the hang of rvalues and explicit move now. ideone.com/AOfpQ Would someone care to verify that I'm doing it right?
 
@Insilico That's exactly what I want to do, but I don't ever think I will get as good as you guys.
 
@user1515422 That was my thought too when I started answering questions. I turned out fine. You can do it too.
 
9:28 PM
Widget(const std::string &s)
    : s_(s) {
    std::cout << "Default constructor called " << s_ << std::endl;
}
 
@sehe huge gain... you learn cool stuff
 
That's not a default constructor.
 
@user1515422 Well, that should be ok. At least you'll get better. And you'll enjoy that
 
Why would you voluntarily read crappy code.
SAN ---
 
@user1515422 don't worry about that. Learn from others, and try to share what you know, and you'll get better fast. That's basically what the rest of us have done
 
9:28 PM
@sehe I suppose so.. How long have you been here?
 
Why would you voluntarily read code.
 
@CatPlusPlus To get better at reading your coworker's code? :-P
 
@sehe I dont see where he had it nor where anyone mentioned it in chat
 
@LuchianGrigore IME, you don't from watching cool code. It's like you don't actually become a stellar pianist from just watching a concert pianist
@user1515422 About 1.5 yrs
 
@ManofOneWay Seems fine, but I hope you're aware that you wouldn't need any of those special members (aka rule of zero, which I'm still not finished writing).
 
9:29 PM
:)
We can't help that --> http://ideone.com/9dCvr
 
@Insilico Not really.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Special members?
 
@Insilico Shoot them.
 
@ManofOneWay Not that one. Ctor, assignment, dtor etc
 
@ManofOneWay Copy ctors, assignments, etc.
 
9:30 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes That would certainly be a quick solution.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Just delete the code. Be a pacifist while at it
 
@Insilico There are few problems that can't be solved by finding the right people and shooting them.
 
I want to see the rule of zero now, less typing in chat, more typing on blog post
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes missing 2/3 of the 2nd word
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes without finding* FTFY
 
9:31 PM
@sehe search confirms
 
@ManofOneWay :)
 
@ManofOneWay You can pay him to leave chat :)
 
Ok still confused.. going to ask on SO..
Not working
 
@Chimera Don't let you boss catch on to you
 
@sehe I don't think my boss will mind... I'm not letting any secrets out. And he knows I'm learning C++...
 
9:34 PM
@Chimera my linked code compiled - note I changed the include for cairo to be standard (cairo/cairo.h)
 
What concerns are you thinking of?
 
You "Not working"
:)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes When do you think you'll have the blog post finished? I'll be heading to bed in 30 minutes!
 
@ManofOneWay Oh, you'll see it tomorrow.
 
@sehe OH... No I meant the code isn't working.
 
9:34 PM
:)
 
:-)
 
I'm quite slow at writing this kind of thing.
 
I'm such a newb at this.
 
@ManofOneWay Damn. Can't you just "picture" it for yourself :) Just don't do any resource allocation and don't use (const) reference members.
 
I'm constantly second guessing my sentence structure.
And reordering paragraphs.
 
9:35 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's why you have copy-editors. :-)
 
@Insilico But I don't :(
 
@sehe Yes, I tried your code but replaced vector with std::array. I will try the vector code. Thought std::array would be better because I know the size of the data...
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You can try outsourcing it to Lounge<C++> bits at a time. :-P
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm so glad to hear I'm not the only one with that disorder. When I need to write a letter, each sentence will, on average, have been written three times, the general order revised 2 times. And I need to carefully proofread it, because all the 'refactoring' is prone to introduce disconnects or inconequential language.
 
@sehe Doesn't sound like a disorder to me.
 
9:37 PM
> This works only because of laziness, and you also have to be very careful about how you pipe your data so you don't create a paradox and destroy the universe.
@CatPlusPlus This sounds familiar, did you quote that recently?
 
Like I said, I think std::array supports fewer options for constructors. You could look that up, of course
 
I wish more people were as attentive to their writing as you say you are.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh, you have a blog? Linky?
 
@sehe he's using C++03ish as well
 
@Insilico Well, it is frequently a hughe disability. I can't finish this kind of task in a sane amount of time. In fact, I still need to finish a mail I started last friday 16:00
 
9:38 PM
@jalf It's on my profile. But just for you rmartinho.github.com :)
 
@MooingDuck So, TR1. Okay, that might explain the initializer syntax not working /cc @Chimera
 
@Insilico were*
 
@sehe I'm aware, but I don't know if he is.
 
Does anyone have the C++11 gold badge yet?
 
@LuchianGrigore Like I said about copy-editors... :-P
 
9:38 PM
@ManofOneWay Yes. IIRC.
 
Oh you edited... I thought that was on purpose :P
 
@sehe It has no constructors. It wouldn't be an aggregate if it did.
 
@Chimera NumberImages = { { 8, "images/0.png", NULL },
 
@ManofOneWay Johannes did most of the grunt work of retagging -> just to get his.
 
@LuchianGrigore So I can recruit some suitable copy-editors, obviously. :-P
 
@ManofOneWay stackoverflow.com/tags/c%2b%2b11/topusers (sehe's is better)
 
:) And on the same second :)
 
@LuchianGrigore Hmm, hi. I've seen you on the site before, but I think this is the first time here on chat. Am I right?
 
Cool =) He's the only one then
I wonder who'll be getting it next
Maybe the robot?
 
> Chat user since 2011-08-04
 
9:40 PM
@MooingDuck will try that.
 
@ManofOneWay Howard Hinnant seems closest, Robot is #4
 
@ManofOneWay I need more ~100 answers for that, but only ~250 points.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes nah, not my first time. But far from being a regular on chat.
hi!
:)
 
You screwed the mood of the chatroom, man
Or I was disconnected ):
Christ, seriously, the silence is killing me
 
@MooingDuck #4 on points. But I'll need to post 91 answers to get it, so it will take a while.
 
9:45 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah, I was using points as an approximator
If that wasn't a word before, it is now.
Right next to "overcomplified"
 
@MooingDuck That actually sounds great, I think I'll use it
 
Just started my first MSVS/XBOX debug session, wish me luck
 
@n2liquid Use it enough and Merriam-Webster will actually add it to their dictionaries. :-)
 
@LuchianGrigore Good luck!
 
@LuchianGrigore Good luck!
How does XBOX debugging work, actually?
 
9:48 PM
I'm about to find out
 
Do you connect an Ethernet cable to it to your computer or something?
 
It's actually through the network I think
 
@LuchianGrigore Making XBLA games ?
 
I dunno, IT takes care of this stuff
I just pressed F5 and bam!
 
I like things that just work.
 
9:50 PM
I don't like things that just work. I like things that work and give me massages.
 
What is a subroutine?
 
Ell
someone, help me link porn and sunflowers together!
 
Isn't it a function?
 
@Ell How random.
 
Ell
It is of great urgency!
 
9:52 PM
I take no responsibility for that.
 
If anyone is interested, see my edits on deletion.
 
I've never watched porn before.
 
@user1515422 Subroutine, procedure, function... mostly the same thing in imperative programming.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Back to std::array. Default copy constructor means bitwise copies, and all the caveats that go along with that? That's a good argument to stick with vector
 
9:53 PM
@Ell What’s so hard (pun intended) about it?
 
@user1515422 yes
 
@user1515422 Cicada? Is that you?
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh my god I am in stitches to that!
 
@Prætorian No, I think it does a real copy
 
@Prætorian What? No. You get memberwise copy in C++ by default.
 
9:53 PM
@Prætorian No. Default copy constructor means memberwise copies. It's only bitwise copies for the fundamental types.
 
@RadekSlupik No?
@FredOverflow Thanks. :D
 
> Hot, uncensored footage of sunflowers reproducing!
To reproduce, sunflowers need to get involved in threesomes with bees.
 
Don’t need to be bees.
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes do you know who sings that? or what that song is?
 
Robots are also fine.
 
9:55 PM
> Music: 'Let's Get It On' by Marvin Gaye
 
@Ell go to danbooru.donmai.us and search for "sunflower rating:e"
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Do they have robot bees in Portugal?
 
It's a sure shot.
 
@FredOverflow Holy crap, I had no idea!
 
Somethign changed all my fonts... shit.
 
9:55 PM
@Ell It's on the description of the video.
 
@Drise Uninstall the particular font. Problem solved.
 
@RadekSlupik I dunno which one it is.
 
@Drise There is always WhatTheFont! for typogranoobs. :P
Or post a screenshot here and I’ll tell you what font it is.
 
When is it a new day according to SO? gmt+0?
 
Ell
oops yes it is, thankyou
 
9:57 PM
When is it a new week? Sunday. <— assholes.
 
What's your view on learning C++ for hacking purposes?
 
Define “hacking”.
 
Manipulating data on the game?
in*
 
 
I personally hate seeing people learn C++ for that reason.
 
9:59 PM
@user1515422 Well, if you can prove with that that the game has a security hole, +1, otherwise I don’t care.
 
And they usually don't make it anywhere.
 
@Drise comic sans
 

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