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12:36 AM
Hey, humanoids. I noticed that the excerpt of is marketing BS copied from the project's webpage. The edit predates Undo's strict no-plagiarism policy, so I didn't want to flag (although the corresponding last edit changed some meaningful text to the marketing BS with a comment of "complete update"...)
if anybody feels creative, feel free to rewrite it; I wasn't sure that just deleting the whole excerpt (on account of me having zero domain knowledge) would be helpful enough
Also, happy birthday @AlexisKing </stalk> :P
 
@AndrasDeak Now I’m curious how you knew.
 
you just posted here, and I thought I knew you(r avatar), so I looked at your profile, didn't ring a bell, looked at meta, no cigar, looked at your twitter, gave up but noticed your newest tweet :D
my conclusion was that I must've seen you here, but the damage had already been done :P
 
Well, thank you, haha. I don’t come in here much, but I used to a while back.
 
same here
I haven't been here for months, but I didn't want to leave this karma-runner thing alone
(and the JS room sounds even scarier than the possible event notifications for 2 weeks after coming here)
welp, see you all later:)
 
 
2 hours later…
3:08 AM
@AndrasDeak I have very little domain knowledge, but I reworded them to eliminate the plagiarism (review 1, review 2). I easily found the source for some parts of the text. However. I didn't find any source for other parts. For those, I did find copies stated as being from the tag wiki. I didn't change the portions where I found no indication the text was plagiarized.
@QPaysTaxes What? Your code doesn't always work perfectly the first time? :-) ... Nice job.
 
 
1 hour later…
4:18 AM
@NobodyNada Posting content to SE doesn't remove ownership. The author still owns the content. They simply have licensed the content under the terms specified, giving certain rights to others, including, relevantly here, the right to distribute the content. So yes, the OP can't vandalize the post, but they do still own it — Servy 7 hours ago
maybe change the wording of the "please don't vandalize" boilerplate comment
ISTR there was a central repository for these canned responses but don't remember where
 
4:30 AM
Did you try it? I think it's a constraint violation, so there should be an error or warning during compilation. "...both operands shall have arithmetic type, or one operand shall be a
pointer to a *complete object type* and the other shall have integer type."
 
@tripleee See the comments starting here. @NobodyNada has some text which sounds better.
@tripleee I believe you are looking for SO Close Vote Reviewers | Auto Comments Listing
 
@Makyen oooh, thanks
 
@Makyen @tripleee I've updated the auto comment in the GH repo by the way (with gunr's approval).
 
@NobodyNada I had just noticed that the most recent commit was a short time ago. Looks good.
 
4:54 AM
An interesting spin on Schrodinger's Paradox -- the cat is outside the box for once! — Wossname 8 hours ago
 
5:35 AM
@RiggsFolly another one for you^^
 
6:10 AM
what's the precise process for merging two questions? I have flagged for mod attention in the past and requested a merge but I don't think I have ever actually seen it happen in practice
I'm looking at stackoverflow.com/questions/81520/… and stackoverflow.com/questions/5719030/… where I think the first should be the canonical but the second has many more answers
hmh, I guess that's how it is
so now do you think it's worth bringing up on meta or should I just grudgingly leave comments on both questions?
 
6:49 AM
unclear / too broad
@Abhitalks it's preferred to use actual close reasons here. That is, "unclear" instead of "gibberish"
Actually... is it?
 
Ooops sorry @JanDvorak. Just typed what I was thinking. This is my first chat post, after all :) That question just didn't make any sense, looks more like a bot generated gibberish to me.
 
There's also the rude/abusive flag for posts that look like a cat stepped on a keyboard
 
7:04 AM
Ahh.. thanks, I kept on thinking for while on whether it is spam or rude. I dropped the flag idea and considered getting it closed first.
 
These are what I'm used "gibberish" to mean. I'm not entirely sure if the flag applies here.
 
@tripleee I would post a new meta post, so we get more cases which makes it a bit easier to work out a kind of policy that helps both users and mods when to request and grant a merge. The feature is maybe underused due the complexities mentioned by Brad. If it really turns out to be causing more problems then it solves, the feature can be shutdown.
which would also be an helpful outcome but maybe not the one you hope for now.
 
@rene thanks, I'll see about it ... I'm reviewing the questions and thinking that maybe I could simply wield Mjölnir after all here
 
7:53 AM
@SmokeDetector looks like NAA; Q is not a tool rec as far as I can see
There's one code-answer there, two link-only answers, amongst which the last smokey report
 
@Adriaan How do you suggest to narrow it down?
 
@JanDvorak more specific description with preferably the usecase in code (as in: the website in which it needs to be embedded)
 
Then it would be too localized and perhaps not a minimal enough CVE
 
8:16 AM
@FOX9000 spam
there's a reject there on basis of "inflicts with authors intent" facepalm. Awhut, that's done by one of the top reviewers even... weird.
 
 
@Pang it hurts my eyes to see that there are people approving those
 
o.O
 
One dude actually twice approved that edit
@Pang posted a meta on it. We'll see what happens now
 
@RiggsFolly I do not have enough reputation to cast a delete vote just yet
 
8:41 AM
Absolutely typical!
Clear duplicate question has been closed but using another clear duplicate from yesterday even though I've already flagged that one! The hammers in VBScript are flaming useless bunch!
 
@Lankymart not constructive
 
@JanDvorak which bit?
 
"flaming useless bunch"
 
@JanDvorak They are though.
 
A dupe closure to a bad question is still better than having the dupe answered
 
8:48 AM
@JanDvorak yes but I flagged it ages ago and they are active, they would have seen it but still chose to pick "their" dup as the target.
 
Usually you don't visit the question you're closing as a duplicate of.
 
See that kind of thing from them all the time, it's frustrating.
 
If a RO thinks it useful to pin that, please feel free ^
 
@JanDvorak first person to flag that question has an answer on the other and was active when I posted the dup flag
Can't do nought about it just venting.
Now it's closed I can see not one of them flagged it...which isn't surprising.
 
8:52 AM
@Lankymart have you tried talking to them?
 
@JanDvorak multiple times...
 
9:11 AM
This answer just came up in smokey. Guess you learn something about @Kyll everyday!
 
9:28 AM
@Makyen thanks
 
10:27 AM
@NobodyNada yes, let's change it a bit
 
@SmokeDetector could be a legit question (although of low quality), but I voted spam nonetheless due to the inclusion of the non-commented link
 
Please do not vandalize your posts. Once you've posted a question, you have licensed the content to the Stack Overflow community at large (under the CC-by-SA license).  If you would like to disassociate this post from your account, see [What is the proper route for a disassociation request?](meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/323395/…)
@NobodyNada -----^
 
Sam
10:52 AM
 
11:03 AM
o/ to all
 
11:32 AM
Monring
 
11:45 AM
@NathanOliver \o
 
@NathanOliver Monring :)
 
welcome to typos-r-us
 
@NathanOliver In R-us(sia), typos type you!
 
11:51 AM
* weclome to tpyso-r-su
 
12:09 PM
ok i think i'll give this a rest for now
 
12:31 PM
Seriously though. where do these spam accounts come from.
I fail to even see what their goals are.
they don't bother me, I am just curious.
 
12:53 PM
morning!
 
Hiya gunr
 
at least they were sorry. lol
 
I'm not sure it's a k
Maybe they are saying what OP wants is impossible?
 
Maybe but as a one rep unreged user with a trollish answer I do not mind nuking it.
 
probably a downvote and delete vote then
 
12:59 PM
in Charcoal HQ on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 20 secs ago, by Glorfindel
(post deleted by a moderator, but flag marked helpful)
 
my flag got declined on that last one
 
Really? Mine was marked as helpful.
 
> declined - a moderator reviewed your flag, but found no evidence to support it
 
Did you mod flag?
 
no I spam flagged it. but based on the comments after i guess that is why it got declined
 
It, indeed, wasn't spam.
 
Ah. spam flag is a no-no as it was not spam (although the flags do end up in the same place). I flagged as rude/abusive.
 
i.stack.imgur.com/DEioT.png nope i got declined
 
It is kind of splitting hairs but I see why they did it.
 
Ok, well, live and learn
 
user3956566
1:27 PM
Take it to meta everyone grab your pitchforks, we're roasting a mod tonight!
 
@YvetteColomb I prefer roasted hog, I think
 
Yay!
 
user3956566
lol me too with apple sauce
 
user3956566
it really annoys me when mods make mistakes, like Jon Skeet, I expect them to be Godlike
 
Are you telling me that Jon skeet is a moderator mistake? That would explain some things.
 
user3956566
1:31 PM
That is such convoluted mental gymnastics, that I'm really not sure. May be I am
 
@Nkosi probably because you hit spam, the ones hitting abusive (approved), meeh theze mods... there is a post from undo that they should be considered as same flag..
 
@PetterFriberg this one
 
should, yeah...
 
@PetterFriberg yeah i was a little too quick on the draw and click spam before I realized what was going on. lol
 
1:36 PM
@Nkosi according to the meta it should not be any difference, but yeah the old rules was that it could be abusive (troll, unreg users), even if in that particular case I would have flagged NAA/VLQ
 
@Glorfindel yeah I remember reading/voting on this.
 
@Nkosi yeah should have used NAA
 
@ColdFire yep.
 
Is this is an MVCE? It's very M, but not that VC: stackoverflow.com/questions/43257055/…
 
user3956566
1:46 PM
@JanDvorak not enough code, the undefined is one of the objects hasn't been initialised and we cannot see it
 
user3956566
it would be a dupe for sure
 
i thought it might be defined by the grid library
@dur what of?
 
dur
@JanDvorak: Sorry, wrong link. I will repost the correct link.
@NathanOliver: Could you or any other RO, remove chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/36506890#36506890.
 
dur
@NathanOliver: Thank you. I had to many tabs open...
 
1:54 PM
np
 
^format error
 
user3956566
2:11 PM
@Machavity I voted for that, it actually belongs on MSE
 
@YvetteColomb Thanks
 
2:35 PM
well it's gone now
 
@Makyen Is this CV still valid? Looks heavily edited
@Compass It was spam
 
I am ham
 
@Machavity It is heavily edited. Go ahead and remove the request.
Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
 
2:57 PM
@NathanOliver Can you handle this please?
 
user3956566
@Makyen done
 
@YvetteColomb Thank you. It still needs some more approvals. I don't like requesting approval on my own edits, but it's resolving plagiarism and has received a reject vote, for what appears to be an inapplicable reason.
 
user3956566
@Makyen I ask for approvals of wiki edits here also, or rejects when it's a plagiarised suggestion
 
@Machavity Is this stackoverflow.com/questions/2970768/find-array-value-using-key applicable to this stackoverflow.com/questions/43255613/… as an additional target? (if yes, pls do teh honors)
 
@BhargavRao Yep. Same issue
 
3:08 PM
Danke! You reduced the mod queue by 1 flag.
 
Nice
Wait, someone mod flagged for a dupe or just to add a second dupe?
 
To add a second dupe
 
Maybe tomorrow You'll want to settle down.
Until tomorrow you'll just keep flagging on.
waiting to see if anyone will catch the reference :)
 
Meh, @Tunaki is MIA?
 
A flag a day keeps ... flaggers away?
 
3:13 PM
wakka
 
A decline a day keeps ... flaggers away.
2
 
Hi folks!
 
@Machavity Done
 
@NathanOliver Danka
 
3:26 PM
RIP
The equivalent of me spontaneously getting hulk strength, ripping out my scratching post, and swinging it around viciously bopping him in the head.
 
@Machavity Thanks for making the request for removal. You nija'ed me in doing so. I was just about to hit send when I saw your post. :-)
 
np
 
I'm not sure on this one. He has one other answer with actual code.
should be a comment if it is a valid resource.
 
Woot, OP just came back after 3 years of inactivity and accepted my answer from Apr 9 2014
 
Nice
 
3:35 PM
saw the notification and was like when the hell did I answer that question
 
or is OP a zombie
 
In that case you deserve a necromancer badge
 
🧟 ???
 
@JanDvorak well my answer is short by 1 upvote for that and I didn't answer it more than 60 days after it was asked
unfortunately :-(
but yes I'm basically the lich king
 
Woot. Passed suggested edit audit \o/
 
3:38 PM
I smite thee with holey water! aggressively flails around with a leaky barrel of water
 
slow clap
 
@Compass Eye see what you did there
 
user4639281
@JanDvorak I imagine so. I can't see any condition where a question could contain only an error and be an on-topic practical programming problem.
 
user4639281
Either that or request for off-site resource
 
3:52 PM
@TinyGiant world (error 42): don't panic. core dumped.
 
user4639281
lol
 
user4639281
That would not be a good thing. I think I would ignore the warning and panic anyway.
 
@TinyGiant No, definitely not a recoverable error. Certainly not an error you could catch. If the world dumped the core, any panic would be short.
 
user4639281
:P
 
user4639281
When in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout
 
3:56 PM
Wasn't that "twist and shout"?
 
@TinyGiant :-)
 
user4639281
I don't know, I misremember stuff all the time... I think...
 
also, unclear and using textspeak
@dur this cv request doesn't seem to respect FAQ #11
 
Is this closable? I went with unclear but now I am unsure.
 
yes
 
4:07 PM
@NathanOliver Bleh. Looks a lot like "How I do it?"
 
CV'd. One to go
 
@JanDvorak Did you use unclear?
 
Yes
 
Might wanna reject the edit too. I approved when I waffled
 
4:09 PM
a custom "not programming" would probably work as well
 
True
Already voted to reject. That is how I found it.
 
dur
@JanDvorak: Ok, the question is not really bad (but author knows the other question and leave a comment with link to his new question), the recent traffic is only me (because I have the problem at the moment) and propably has enough users. So @NathanOliver or any other RO: could you please remove chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/36510273#36510273 Not my day...
 
I didn't realize today was garbage day ;)
 
4:37 PM
o/
 
Just stumbled across robot #420 at work. insert stoner joke here kek
 
@MattClark Does it tokenize?
 
After tokinization, it blazes across the floor ;)
 
4:54 PM
@Machavity "Danke", please ;-)
 
user3956566
5:13 PM
it's so strange I can edit tag wikis on Pets.se without being reviewed. So I can just create them when they're missing. how weird
 
5:28 PM
@YvetteColomb As you probably know, pets.se is in beta. Thus, the rep requirements for privilege levels are much lower than on SO (~ 1/5). Scaling your rep there: your pets.se rep, 9,699, wrt. privileges is approx. the equivalent of having 48,495 rep on SO. This puts you nearly double the rep required for the highest privileges. But, yeah, not having to have your tag edits reviewed is one of the nice 20k+ (SO) privileges & would feel a bit weird.
 
user3956566
@Makyen yeh I know. I haven't been active on Pets in a while, so when I decided to do the tag wiki, I was pretty sure I had the privs, it's still weird, it's so SO hard to get privs on SO pun intended
 
user3956566
@QPaysTaxes lol
 
5:54 PM
Plop everyone! Way too many horses in this transcript.
 
Hiya Kyll
Anyone have a minute to discuss a PL/SQL query?
 
@Kyll, how good are you with Promises in javascript?
 
I'm good at breaking those. Shoot.
 
testing room?
 
K
 
6:15 PM
nvm, figured it out.
 
@NathanOliver I have many minutes, but none to give to this language...
 
user3956566
hi @Kyll hi @gunr2171 hi @NathanOliver
 
yo
 
6:24 PM
Plop
 
6:37 PM
\o
 
@NathanOliver or any other C++ and maybe Python dev: JasonC needs some help: chat.meta.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/5916790#5916790
 
Just noticed that the review queues have changed on the top nav.
5
 
one click extra ...
 
for me it is the same amount of click.
have to click for the drop down then on the queue
it is just one less page i think
 
yeah, OK
 
7:09 PM
@Nkosi I like it. It shows the primary information I'm interested in which is on the reviews page (i.e. the number of reviews in each queue). I'm a bit concerned about the loss of the icon badge showing # of review tasks, as not having it may result in fewer people doing reviews. OTOH, always showing the badge didn't really help. It'd be nice if the user could set a per-queue alert level, or just a site-wide per-queue level at which a badge is displayed.
 
7:22 PM
Hello!
 
@Makyen you could add a feature request on meta. I'm sure there will a post about the nav soon
 
user4639281
7:45 PM
@Nkosi YAY!!!!
 
user4639281
I've been waiting for that change. I wish it looked more like the other menus though
 
No more meaningless numbers
 
7
Not a fan of the new menu style
 
8:11 PM
@Machavity Yeah, while I think having a badge to call attention to queues which are unusually full would be beneficial, having a badge which is visible 100% of the time reduces its usefulness, particularly when it has a number which does not have an obvious relationship to a specific issue (i.e. aggregating the number for all queues vs. calling attention to queues which are unusually full). When it's visible 100% of the time, it becomes noise which people will just ignore.
3
 
user4639281
I think we should disable close flagging for a month or so and see what happens to the close vote queue.
 
@TinyGiant and to question quality. I wonder how big of a difference it would make
 
user4639281
This is coming from the stance of regularly seeing question in the close vote queue with 0 close votes that don't need to be closed at all. I'm assuming in these situations that one or multiple users are flagging such questions.
 
user4639281
So, if my hypothesis is correct, we would have a smaller close vote queue, and more stuff that actually warrants close votes would get closed.
 
@TinyGiant nothing will happen, it will stay the same... (remember votes just age away)
 
8:18 PM
@Nkosi I'll try to get to it, but I really should be doing other things in RL for the next several days. Thus, if you want to post a feature request on meta, please feel free. Ping me with a link if you do. I think asking for per-user settings is DOA, based on how reluctant SE has been to implement user options. Asking for a badge that, generally, highlights unusually full queues could work.
 
user4639281
@PetterFriberg The idea is that less stuff that doesn't need to be reviewed would enter the queue, allowing more users to focus on stuff that actually does need to be closed.
 
yeah but in a month everyting would be closed or aged away :D, so yeah maybe your right... it will hit zero..
everyday that pass by, I'm more and more for the idea, just to drop the whole cv system, it's so broke..., we just vote on posts and amen..
rename SOCVR to SODVR
 
\o/, my flag capacity just reached the 100 maximum
@PetterFriberg wait, the cv system is broken? I think it works fairly well
 
@NobodyNada really or just joking...
 
user4639281
@PetterFriberg I definitely don't think it is as broken as some people make it out to be
 
user4639281
8:23 PM
I think it is a hell of a lot better than no system at all.
 
@PetterFriberg It's not perfect, but I think it works OK most of the time
 
but have you checked all the stuff that age away?
 
user4639281
Yeah sure stuff ages away. But stuff also gets closed
 
we make people flag and review... and then we age away all the work??
 
Well, I got a user suspended today, but it is a good thing
 
8:25 PM
Anyone aware of how to get queue sizes from the API?
 
@Tiny do you think that an honest assumption is that 80% of all java questions are dupes?
 
user4639281
That's why we disable the flagging. Most of the close flags that I had cast before I got close votes aged away. Really, all that close flags are doing is unnecessarily padding the queue
 
user4639281
@PetterFriberg That's a possibility, but I don't think that is correct.
 
@MattClark API has pretty much nothing review-related
They don't want actual robo-reviewers IIRC
 
@TinyGiant I did a test with Tuna we he duplicated around 90%
it's just a matter of searching to find the correct dupe...
 
8:27 PM
Makes sense, didn't see anything related, thought it would be cool to drop those metrics next to my other graphs.
 
now lets say it's only 80%, check the front page of java and see how many of them are dupe... very few...
 
user4639281
There is a difference between questions that can loosely be closed as a duplicate, and questions that should be closed as a duplicate.
 
Check Android, not just Java ;)
 
user4639281
You could probably find a loose duplicate for 100% of questions asked every day.
 
user4639281
I don't think that doing that would benefit the site though
 
8:28 PM
I declare that a challenge.
:D
 
user4639281
 
@TinyGiant To me talking about java it's become a debug my code... with dupes.
 
@TinyGiant loooool
I could make that work.
 
user4639281
@PetterFriberg I think that the "what have you tried?" comments are more to blame for that than anything
 
if we talk about jasper-reports that I check every question only 1/10 is worth answering, the rest should be closed.
 
8:30 PM
@TinyGiant Clever!
and it wouldn't have worked yesterday!
 
:( sadface
 
@TinyGiant I agree those are useless comments... but people posting are not really putting in any effort... and I'm a nice guy
 
404's with an invalid session
 
If you're writing a chatbot, you'll have a valid session since you have to log into SO to access chat. If not, you can look at login code from someone's chatbot -- here's FireAlarm's for example
 
only maybe 1 out of 10 are an interesting question that has sense for SO, to me honestly the other 9 are crap and should be closed, out of these 9 maybe we close 1...
so yeah to me the system is not working...
 
8:33 PM
@NobodyNada I do not have a _chat_ bot, sadly. My app simply scrapes the api at
https://api.stackexchange.com/2.2/info?site=stackoverflow
I have an API key, but thats all.
 
@TinyGiant The "what have you tried" comments are largely because OPs ask questions which are too broad (e.g just code requests). Often the people making those comments should be voting/flagging for closure, and/or writing a comment asking for explicit clarification. Not all the time, but often.
 
"Why are some things bad practice in Python"
just because it runs.. does not mean that it should..
 
8:54 PM
@Tiny I indexed java as an example here, you can bet that if you go 5 days back the questions is not in cv queue anymore.. and that's a lot of reviews that are just wasted.. if you like to check what kind of questions they are and I can give you a nice batch, but trust me if it gets 3 or 4 cv they are 99% bad.
and those are not flagged, those are >3k cv:ing
Here you go with all possibile duplicates that almost noone is checking chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/117458/duplicate-posts, just stay in that room for 10 min and get the feel of it, lets say only 50% is correct hmm that's a lot of questiton that should be closed, no dupe hammer have the energy to check his own tag (except JAL)
it's just a lot of stuff... to much for the few reviewers and people with good intentions in SOCVR...
I disabled a bot function that find off-topic question even if more then 90% correct, just because I don't wanted to scatter our few votes around
and we could never run it in SOCVR since it would be just one bot message after the other...
The core issue is simple, to much stuff to review, to few reviewers, the review system tries to show all, we scatter votes around in the review que, to not make the queue grow to infinity (as before), the solution is to age away the votes (dump the effort in the bin)... Reviewing using the queue you should only do if you like to get badges or count in the review history.. and if you filter on your own low-traffic tag, well yeah be sure it's a good way to waste your time...
Conclusion: System is broke, SO makes people review to then just throw away the review time.. we close merely a very low percent of what should be closed and spend hours discussion about edge cases.. maah.. it needs a radical change or should be dropped.
at least NAA/VLQ/SPAM/ABUSIVE on answers and comments are working since we have mods checking it
1 flag = 1 deleted... lots of difference...
 
9:44 PM
Hi all o/
 
hallo
 
Plop there
 
 
1 hour later…
11:12 PM
Bahm, first! =D
:)
 

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