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00:00 - 14:0014:00 - 00:00

2:00 PM
@AndyProwl thanks, this is how I understood it too, but wasn't sure.
 
who is going to be accessing the elements of a vector after you move it?
it should be leaving scope....
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I still don't understand this thing, what is experimental error here?
> Observational error (or measurement error) is the difference between a measured value of quantity and its true value
How does that apply to experiments with a new drug? Like, a patient was healed but the doctors thought they were not, and vice versa?
(that quote is from Wikipedia for "Observational error", I couldn't find an entry for "Experimental error")
 
@johnathon if it doesn't leave the scope (e.g. because it is a member of a class) you might want to reuse the vector you moved from, in particular if POCMA == false, since the vector storage cannot be freed in that case. In that particular case, you also probably want to preserve the old vector's size... But currently you have to check for it. The standard guarantees a valid state.
 
re - initialize it after the move.
 
@johnathon that's something you want to avoid in a lot of cases, e.g., if std::is_trivial<T> is true
 
2:08 PM
Oct 5 at 12:14, by Luc Danton
@AndyProwl would this help?
More of the same stuff, I guess
 
actually i'd want to avoid it if is_trivial<T> is false, not true. Regardless the alternative is cumbersome and highly error prone. Re-initializing the vector to a new vector would allow you to use your current code path for populating the vector. All your trying to save is an allocation......
which on highly constrained systems would be important...
 
@gnzlbg Now ISTR that what I mentioned about swap as a valid implementation of move-assignment was for strings, not vectors
 
I wonder why the NATO countries didn't want to go
 
I guess vectors of trivial types would allow for the same
 
2:13 PM
@AndyProwl probably, since calling a destructor on a trivial type has no observable behavior
 
yeah
 
Ven
if your teacher asks you not to use * (derefencing), just replace it with foo[0]!
6
#lifehacks
 
@johnathon since pocma == false, high chances are that your allocator is stateful which... has weird consequences
 
that's not a dereference, that's just something that returns a reference! :loki:
cc @PatrickM'Bongo
 
@gnzlbg class.myvector = new vector<T>() ...... solves all those weird consequences
 
2:16 PM
ewwww
 
@Ven or with 0[foo] for more intense trolling
 
@BartekBanachewicz politics.
 
Ven
@AndyProwl :D
 
@johnathon what if your allocator is a stack allocator, with an arena inside, and you want it to live within the object's memory (inline) ? Or what if your allocator is not default constructible, and you need to construct it from e.g. some global state (like some thread_local variable) ? Dealing with POCMA<Allocator> == false is a pain, because your allocator can be very special.
 
Ven
@Griwes I expected that one :P
 
2:18 PM
:P
 
I guess they call it "indirection" these days
 
@Abyx meh. Tank biathlon looks super fun
 
@AndyProwl in case you missed it, we were remembering the discussion between LRiO and Loki Astari about this on discord earlier today.
 
@gnzlbg Why are you using a stack allocator?
 
@Griwes LRiO and Loki Astari? Where? Were you guys playing archeologists?
 
2:20 PM
@AndyProwl Yes we were.
 
About what?
Well, dereferencing I guess
but more concretely?
 
@johnathon tons of reasons, you know a compile-time upper bound on the number of elements, you might need to serialize a vector through the network, in which case a stack allocator is perfect (in particular since the objects live within the vector itself)...
 
@gnzlbg you don't need to use a stack allocator to do that. in fact, i have a feeling that you've made your code considerably more complex than it should be to accomplish the task you need it to do. Objects reside within the vector if it's a vector<T> , pointers reside in the vector if it's a vector<T*> ... ... stack allocating the storage doesn't change that fact
rather, it dosn't influence that fact. it dosn't matter if the storage is allocated on the heap or the stack.
 
@johnathon if you have std::vector<T> the vector object has 3 elements: 1 pointer to the data, an index for the size, and an index for the capacity (), but the elements live on the heap. If you write e.g. vector<T, stack_allocator<T, Capacity>> the vector has 4 elements, the three of above, and an Allocator data member, which in this case would contain an internal buffer in the form of a e.g. char array within the allocator object itself (and hence within the vector itself).
Anyhow what I am doing is implement a Container that can work with std::Allocators, and hence needs to support POCMA allocators properly, since I am not writing them, other people are.
@johnathon There is a huge difference between the stack and the heap in this case: performance wise, exception-safety wise, and move construction/assignment wise, e.g. moving a data pointer cannot fail, but if your allocator is POCMA == false you need to move the elements, which might fail if the move assignment might throw..., and then you might need to deal with allocators comparing equal or not... but that's another story.
 
@gnzlbg your doing all of this because your using stack allocation trying save one load from l1, l2, l3, or perhaps actual ram. If your elements aren't huge then your performance benefits are going to be highly minuscule because of the page size that the machine loads.
the only logical reason for doing any of that would be if your using hardware that's embedded and extremely constrained.
 
2:37 PM
@johnathon That is false (e.g. all std::string implementations do this and the benefits are huge). Anyhow, I am not doing any of this, as stated above, I am writing a standard compliant container, which needs to deal with somebody else doing this (which a lot of people do).
 
@Griwes lol
know the difference!
@sehe good pun (and also congrats on getting off gcc 4.6)
 
@gnzlbg rather than make your life complicated... why not en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/string/basic_string
typedef that to what you need it to be.... js....
 
@johnathon ? Because I am not writing a string container?
 
it's got the same interface as vector ...... plus some stuff that is string
 
@johnathon plus some more stuff :D
 
2:50 PM
@gnzlbg but , it has what you need already
 
@johnathon ? what do I need?
 
o_0 I've just realised... I automatically make little noises as I do things on the compooter... *clicks loging* "yeah", *goes to another tab* "you", *plays music* "please"
 
you mean you think out loud?
 
3:12 PM
not really...
I just make boopity noises :(
 
noob.
 
@PatrickM'Bongo It's pending push to the build server, but that'll be Thursday. Yay
I've binged on deleting obsolete support code from the code base + build scripts
@AndyProwl I see you've met johnathon
Wat         ⠀⁠  ​          ⠀⁠  ​          ⠀⁠  ​          ⠀⁠  ​          ⠀⁠  ​          ⠀⁠  ​          ⠀⁠  ​          ⠀⁠  ​          ⠀⁠  ​ — sehe 18 secs ago
Unicode saves the day
 
Ven
3:35 PM
why isn't +1 banned the same way -1 is?
 
@Ven because negative blah blah
@BogdanAlexandru neat
also WTF ITS ALEX OMG
@BogdanAlexandru IS IT REALLY
 
@Ven It should be. At least the last few times I tried it blocked me.
So I used a unicode +.
 
Ven
@Mysticial must be very recent then
 
How to delete rooms?
created by me
 
Ven
3:57 PM
delete yourself
 
For the prototype, I'm guessing we use the first declaration, but what's the difference? Does the 2nd way just declare 2 variables that aren't used?
string concatenate (const string &, const string &);
string concatenate (const string & s1, const string & s2);
 
^^ There's no place in SO for plagiarists.
 
> Scientists Accidentally Discover Efficient Process to Turn CO2 Into Ethanol: The process is cheap, efficient, and scalable, meaning it could soon be used to remove large amounts of CO2 from the atmosphere.
Rejoyce @Morwenn
@sehe What have you moved to?
@Mysticial Right.
 
@vEN
 
Ven
yes it's me, @vEN
 
4:00 PM
@Ven oK
 
@Ramy Please follow the instructions here:
12
Q: How can I delete a Stack Exchange account of mine?

SathishI have an account on some Stack Exchange sites. I would like to remove one or more of my accounts. What is the process to delete my account(s)?

@Borgleader WTF of the day:
-12
Q: i need Pastamania Reviews on wordpress

storyegI want to work like this Pastamania Reviews https://www.talabat.com/kuwait/pastamania in wordpress and plguin to add more and did not benefit

Oh wait, when I read it again, there's actually a real (but still shitty) question in there.
 
@PatrickM'Bongo lol
 
Ven
> javaphpsqlwordpress
looks like a recipe for the worst cake ever.
 
-40
Q: Asked to get question removed, but haven't got a reply yet

IwantmyaccounttobedeletedplzI posted a question (If statement or loops? ) where I needed some guidance as to what to follow. I received replies straight away with the answer, but the question stated that I didn't want the answer because it was for my assignment. I do not want my college to find this thread that I posted a q...

"I cheated on my homework. Please delete my question so I don't get in trouble." /cc @Borgleader
 
Ven
oh, looks like I got mass-downvoted
sigh. :(
 
4:17 PM
That screenshot shows more than your rep-tab. Did you get hit on more than one site?
 
Ven
I got passive rep on another website
@Ramy I know it's you, btw :P.
 
@Ven Me ?
 
Ven
yuss
 
Is not me.
 
Ven
yes it is :)
 
4:21 PM
ok ok i remove
 
@Ven There are ways to prove beyond any reasonable doubt that a particular downvoted you. But it only works conditionally.
 
Ven
@Mysticial The person admitting to it is such a way!
 
@Ven You can do even better than that. If the downvote is on a non-wiki and non-accepted answer. And the suspect didn't repcap, you can test it by deleting the answer and waiting for the recalc.
Of course someone is gonna cry it's a coincidence, so just do it a few more times.
 
Ven
I also somehow just lost 150 rep. wtf? I was at 14.805 right before o_o
 
150 ? really ?
 
Ven
4:25 PM
must be related to something else
@Mysticial do you know of a way to see your own deleted answers?
 
I downvote just 2-3 answers of you.
3
For 3 answers 150 rep ?
 
Ven
@Mysticial uhhh. It's showing me stuff not deleted from other websites
@Ramy you downvoted 7 of my answers, as seen in the screenshot above :P
 
It only works within a site. And it only when you have 10k.
 
Ven
@Mysticial oh lol. It's showing me an answer as deleted because it was migrated from StackOverflow. hahahaha...
 
4:29 PM
Oh Napalm Death are coming to Dublin next year, more tickets to buy :D
 
@Ven Next time try to be more friendly when you answer. And i will not downvote you :P
 
Ven
@Ramy Next time try to search for stuff before asking here. And I will not report you :P
 
ugh
xD
i'm scared.
 
4:47 PM
Disclaimer: I'm not complaining, it's just I had one of those a moments of inspiration again.
The past is dark and full of bugs.
The future is wast, fascinating, breathtaking, but more importantly it's full of bugs you haven't made yet.
The perl is perl. It's full of sigils.
After all is fixed and bugged a lot less is fixed than bugged
Context: I just started to learn Perl and I'm yet to start writing my Perl bugs.
 
Ven
What's Pearl?
 
Sorry. I meant perl. Fixed it now.
 
Ven
Perl is amazing :3.
 
I'm sure I'll get used to sigils with enough practice.
 
Ven
Are you learning Perl 5 or Perl 6?
 
4:54 PM
@BartekBanachewicz I don't know but it's an implementation that works so that's fine for me :P
maybe other debuggers do things differently
 
@Ven Don't know. I actually haven't finished reading the perlintro yet because my phone ran out of charge, but I guess it would make more sense to learn the latest version.
 
Ven
@АндрейБеньковский oh, probably Perl 5 then
 
user1804599
@sehe you love primes m.youtube.com/watch?v=hP-DZMmQBng
 
Ven
@АндрейБеньковский It's very confusing (because they wanted it that way), but they're vastly different languages
 
I just checked. I have Perl 5 installed
Thanks for telling me about 5 vs 6 thing.
 
user1804599
4:58 PM
Perl 5 is great.
 
OTOH Perl 6 is the prime example of how not to do a new language release
so you may as well go with 5
 
Ven
The fact the language name is a mistake does not indicate anything about the language itself :)
 
Perl 6 is pretty much the Duke Nukem Forever of programming languages
 
What happened?
 
Ven
you're here
 
user1804599
5:02 PM
Use Haskell.
 
@milleniumbug gonna play that one the next time it's on a discount
I'm a little bit not looking forward to the fact that you're limited to 2 weapons at any time
but other than that how bad can it be
 
very
extraordinarily
 
@milleniumbug Huh, why? It exists and has viable implementation for some years now.
 
user1804599
It's a major release so you can break whatever you want
 
5:16 PM
Well, DNF was also released several years ago so there
 
5:40 PM
@Mysticial REKT
 
6:12 PM
@milleniumbug which fallout do you play?
 
I've played 1 and 2
 
i didn't pick the series up until recently, I've completed 5, haven't picked up the expansion pack Bethesda released for it yet though.
 
what, there's 5 already?
 
*grabs disk case to check
4
the one with dogmeat, piper , etc
it's set in boston
the previous one was in las vegas if im not mistaken
 
7:10 PM
> Women most likely to use misogynistic language on Twitter, report finds | The Independent -- More than 60 per cent of offensive tweets posted by women used derogatory animal references
How did I miss that? :)
 
lol, that doesn't sound any different from blacks using the N-word.
 
7:51 PM
> misogynistic
> animal references
@milleniumbug I like Perl 6. But it's not compelling for many things
Same for Perl5, so there's that. I wouldn't say they did it wrong. And the timing was about as right as c++11
@rightfold That is really cool
 
user1804599
@sehe gleufdier
 
Oh yeah. They all say that. Literally all the time
 
user1804599
:(
 
user1804599
I am so bored.
 
user1804599
wat do
 
8:00 PM
work. Make a CV. Send in an application
 
user1804599
I'm too incompetent for that
 
user1804599
@thecoshman the logic is actually not shovel-specific:
 
user1804599
(if (not (= objnum obj-food))
    (progn
      (dun-mprinc "You forcefully shove ")
      (dun-mprinc (downcase (cadr (nth objnum dun-objects))))
      (dun-mprincl " down your throat, and start choking.")
      (dun-die "choking"))
 
@rightfold liar
 
user1804599
8:03 PM
@JohanLarsson :p
 
I you are incompetent, I am
 
user1804599
You are.
 
@rightfold roslyn is pretty nice
not sying my code is
 
@rightfold Ok. Then there's no shame. Just binge watch some tele
 
Ell
@rightfold can you give me an example of a HKT with a kind signature besides (∗ ➙ ∗) ➙ ∗ ?
 
that's all with political news for now
 
user1804599
@Ell Profunctor and Category are (* -> * -> *) -> *.
 
@Ell No, and it probably never will. The cost/benefit ratio is too high.
 
user1804599
@Ell (~>) is (* -> *) -> (* -> *) -> * -> *.
 
Ell
8:26 PM
@fredoverflow that is fair :)
 
user1804599
> The internal hom in the category of functors with Day convolution as the monoidal tensor.
 
user1804599
Best module documentation ever.
 
Ell
@rightfold "hom" = homomorphism? vOv
 
user1804599
vOv
 
user1804599
8:35 PM
great music
 
@Ell May I ask why you're asking? Do you need this, or are you just curious?
 
Ell
@fredoverflow a friend of mine wants me to help him with C and I think your tool would be very useful
no files isn't a dealbreaker by any means though :)
 
Hmm, shouldn't be too hard to implement... if I was unemployed, I'd probably get it done within a week.
But I'm not very motivated to work on it right now.
 
@EvgenyPanasyuk Actually, this sounds interesting:
> Tmux navigator has been invaluable to me, C-hjkl to move across splits, doesn't matter if they are vim or tmux splits, it's seamless.
 
Ell
> Not yet, but I will probably open-source skorbut when I lose interest in further development.
;)
Just kidding! No pressure :)
@sehe I'm currently having that issue with browser tabs/windows/emacs windows
("that issue" being different keys for navigation)
 
8:39 PM
If I have learned anything from karel, open-sourcing largely undocumented code is basically worthless.
Nobody is going to want to contribute to your project, because the entry barrier is unnecessarily high.
 
@Ell I never thought of it as a problem. In fact I sometimes nest screen inside tmux just to get different navigation (especially across ssh). But, the idea of having "coordinated" (homogenous) navigating tickles my curiosity bone. Perhaps it's one of those simplify-and-be-happy things
 
I think the only pull request I ever got was on a toy Java project where a Lounger basically wanted to delete all the Java files (or in his words, "remove all the bad stuff").
 
Ell
@sehe I find the split between browser & other stuff useful, but the split between emacs and i3wm a problem
@fredoverflow well that's not very helpful >.<
 
But it was funny :)
 
user1804599
runDay :: forall f g a r. (forall x y. (x -> y -> a) -> f x -> g y -> r) -> Day f g a -> r
 
user1804599
8:42 PM
my head
 
@rightfold Are you familiar with Java Beans? To me it seems they're just POJOs with getters and setters that you have to write manually. wtf?
 
Ell
@rightfold what on earth :O
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow A Java bean is a class with getters named getXXX, setters named setXXX, and a zero-argument constructor.
 
BEAN = Boilerplate Ending Almost Never
 
user1804599
@Ell Oh you haven't seen my PureScript library:
 
user1804599
8:44 PM
data CompactEither :: * -> * -> * -> # * -> * -> * -> * -> * -> * -> * -> * -> * -> *
 
user1804599
But hay, it's efficient.
 
@fredoverflow Yes they are
hopefully you use Lombok
or Kotlin
 
I was just about to mention Kotlin.
But I probably won't be able to use it in the real world.
 
Lombok is a library-based solution for that
(i.e. automatic member generation)
 
@rightfold Hay isn't
 
Ell
8:49 PM
@rightfold wow
what is the #?
 
user1804599
# k is the kind of rows of types of kind k.
 
user1804599
A row of types is like Map String *.
 
@rightfold Isn't ->* a C++ operator? Can you make polyglot Haskell/C++ code? :)
 
I don't think I have ever used ->* in C++.
 
Ell
8:52 PM
@rightfold I am struggling
 
@StackedCrooked I was wrong the other day. I forgot I increased the space once. Without any measurable effect
@fredoverflow weakling
 
user1804599
@Ell An example of a row of types is (a :: Int, b :: String). This row has kind # *.
 
user1804599
The type constructor Record :: # * -> * takes a row and returns a record type.
 
user1804599
For example, {a: 42, b: "Ell"} :: Record (a :: Int, b :: String).
 
Ell
right
I get the last line :P
 
user1804599
8:54 PM
A row is a map from strings to types.
 
user1804599
Rows are used for other purposes as well. For example, a stream which can only be read from has type Stream (r :: Read). A stream which can only be written to has type Stream (w :: Write). A stream that can be read from and written to has type Stream (r :: Read, w :: Write).
 
user1804599
Now, if you write a function that reads from a stream, e.g. read :: Stream (r :: Read) -> Byte, that would be rather restrictive. Because now you can only pass read-only streams, not read–writable streams (Stream (r :: Read) and Stream (r :: Read, w :: Write) are distinct types).
 
user1804599
You can extend a row with a type variable to solve this problem (this is called "row polymorphism"): read :: forall c. Stream (r :: Read | c) -> Byte. Here, c :: # *.
 
->* means of course all members, and if you are in a shell it means every member.
 
Ell
@rightfold ohh
@rightfold I need to stare at this for a long time
then I will understand :3
 
user1804599
9:13 PM
Languages without higher-kinded types are so annoying.
 
Ell
slicing in c++ is annoying me rn -.-
 
user1804599
Don't use inheritance.
 
Ell
I want to for a little
I'd just rather do it without slicing :P
 
user1804599
I want to fap all day but I can't either.
 
user1804599
Apply discipline.
 
Ven
9:16 PM
Apply lubricant as well
 
user1804599
XD
 
Ven
Your explanation was less confused than I expected from you ;-)
 
Ell
what is the correct way of accepting a function of some type in c++?
 
Ven
Mh?
auto fn
 
Ell
:(
I want to know the return type of the function
(given some arguments of known types)
 
user1804599
9:17 PM
@Ell You can't put a constraint on it; you just do template<typename F>, take F/F&&, and that's it.
 
user1804599
@Ell decltype and std::declval
 
Ell
there was a function_traits that I found some time ago, but Xeo laughed at me for some reason
 
Ven
@Ell decltype(fn(foo))
 
Ell
@Ven @rightfold thank you muchly
 
user1804599
function_traits fails for functions with rank-N types.
 
Ven
9:18 PM
:)
 
Ell
Right
 
Ven
Me and rightfold explaining C++. What has the world come to?!
 
user1804599
I explain a subset of C++ with parametricity and lack of overloading.
 
Ven
If only you could give me implicits or type classes in C++ :(
 
user1804599
You can do implicits.
 
user1804599
9:21 PM
Through template specialization.
 
@CaptainGiraffe It would mean redirect stdin to the first globbed (non hidden) file in the current directory
 
user1804599
template<>
struct functor<vector> {
    template<typename T, typename F>
    vector<T> map(vector<T> const& xs, F&& f) { ... }
};
 
user1804599
:P
 
@Ell slicing is never a problem unless virtual polymorphism is, and that's always a very conscious choice that never surprises me late
 
@nwp I dismiss it because it fails to quantify it. There are no controls in that study.
 
Ven
9:28 PM
@rightfold :(
You can not do implicits. Type classes: somewhat.
Because you can't use constraints
 
user1804599
;p
 
user1804599
dynamic typing in your face
 
Ven
Let's dig a dynamic grave
 
When you measure the effectiveness of a treatment (whatever you use to measure that), you are measuring the effectiveness of a whole lot of things that you cannot control along with the treatment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confounding). Ideally one would just remove the extraneous factors, and measure the real effect, but that's impossible. One alternative is to instead measure the effect of those factors without the treatment and subtract that from the total effect measured.
It's not perfect, but it's a reasonably good approximation.
@AndyProwl They're synonyms.
@nwp That's also different from the conclusions one might draw from the study. Whether the subjects "believed in the placebo effect" was not measured.
It's really hard to draw any conclusions at all without a control for "knows about placebo"/"doesn't know about placebo".
The reasonable conclusion of the study, pretending there is no experimental error (a huge assumption given no controls), is that the drug tested is worse than no treatment. That's the standard conclusion anytime a study shows no-treatment > treatment.
@sehe The whole thing reeks of motivated reasoning.
 
@sehe This is the c++ room dear sir.
 
Ell
9:42 PM
man. I'm really trying to write data Fix f = Fx (f (Fix f)) in c++, but cannot do it :(
 
@CaptainGiraffe You started it
 
nwp
/s/Sombrero/Botany
 
" if your teacher asks you not to use * (derefencing), just replace it with foo[0]! " why not LINUX[foo - 1]
Might not be completely portable though.
 
/r/Portable/Dough
 
9:56 PM
There are plenty of things that affect "treated" results: researcher's biases (e.g. it's important that not only the subjects, but also the people administering the treatment and performing the measurements are unaware of who took the drug and who didn't), statistical phenomena (like regression towards the mean), natural progression of the disease (like in the common cold), subject's biases (especially in self-reported outcomes; even if not, people are more likely to behave healthier if they are under scrutiny, and that affects objective measurements too).
 
Ven
@Ell help LAZINESS
 
Ell
@Ven c++ templates are lazy tho right
 
Ven
LOL
You're joking right?
 
Ell
well no
you have to explicitly instantiate templates right
so you will only go one deeper when you instantiate it, right? :V
pleeaaase
well I'm guessing I'm wrong
oh well.
 
They're not lazy.
 
Ell
10:08 PM
RIP
 
Consider: template <typename T, typename U> struct first { using type = T; };. The type U is never used, but first<int, std::enable_if<false>::type>::type won't compile.
@Ell But you also have to explicitly call functions.
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh yes I see
 
nwp
I'm having fun with javascript. No debugger, don't really know the language, doing lots of dumb beginner mistakes, but having fun anyways.
I guess as long as one doesn't try to do anything serious lots of things are fun.
 
10:53 PM
@Ell it’s by all means not the only way to do it, but I have a thing if you need to crib some ideas. might want to take a look at the tests
to make sense of it
 
Ell
@LucDanton Thanks!
 
11:12 PM
@PatrickM'Bongo yo I made my first legendary
doesn’t that sound preposterous, 'first'?
 
11:49 PM
The entirety of Bjarne's rep on SO is from this one answer:
83
A: What's the difference between span and array_view in the gsl library?

Bjarne StroustrupWe talked with people in the library working group in the standards committee. They wanted the array_view they are trying to get into the standard to be read only. For the core guidelines, we needed an abstraction that was read and write. To avoid a clash between the (potential) standards and the...

I wish boost would fix this. There is no reference to boost::string_view anywhere in documentation.
 
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