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7:00 PM
the better analogy is that they made a huge house on top of the current one but it was made from mud and sticks
so now they are filling the holes in mud and sticks with more mud and more sticks
 
nwp
well, it's my favorite sticky mud with holes
 
you should try other houses time to time
 
Ell
Bricks are just fired mud :3
 
no, bricks are made of clay
also ruby is apparently made of ruby and look where it ended
 
Ell
Mud can be clay :P
 
nwp
7:03 PM
I should play with ponylang, I kinda need that for my thesis thing
but before that I have to do a ton of work for my google class
I really hope it ends soon ...
 
Poland is 65% grilled meats.
 
this is what I think about imperative programmers
> Please good people, I am in haste; how do I reverse a string in Java
> throws mud on the pile
> Then who is your lord?
> We don't have a totality checker
 
I'm listening to Octopus by Gentle Giant right now. Strangely topical.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I wish
 
@BartekBanachewicz new StringBuilder(s).reverse().toString()
 
7:11 PM
bloody peasant
 
I didn't vote for your Monad!
 
In C# you don't even need a string builder! Just LINQ that shit.
 
LINQ is basically "we didn't know how to make our language do data processing in a reasonable way so we just slapped an SQL parser on top of it and called it a day"
 
We're all equally responsible for synchronizing changes, and every object is a monitor!
 
(I know that it can be used like regular syntax)
 
7:14 PM
@BartekBanachewicz I like that it goes on to favour the peasant: "Some totality checker contraption is no basis for power"
 
LINQ is not tied to SQL.
 
@fredoverflow Why
 
@sehe IKR some self-irony doesn't hurt
 
LINQ is mostly just extension methods and type inference, eh. The stuff in Enumerable, really.
 
True
@EtiennedeMartel LINQ to objects
 
7:14 PM
You could implement it yourself with a bunch of yield return.
 
@sehe I dunno, that's just the way it is...
 
178
Q: Reverse a string in Java

RonI have "Hello World" kept in a String variable named hi I need to print it, but reversed. How can I do this? I understand there is some kind of a function already built-in into Java that does that. Related: Reverse each individual word of “Hello World” string with Java

 
@sehe Right, forgot there were people who actually used the other LINQ shit.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Missed the point by seven miles
 
7:15 PM
Most of the LINQ I do is LINQ to Objects, so.
 
@sehe good that I was aiming with a tac nuke then
 
Used LINQ to SQL a bit back in the day. Felt cool for toy projects.
 
the thing is
LINQ is just another trick to avoid having composition abstractions in a language
 
@EtiennedeMartel Me too. The rest quickly becomes "cutesy pantsy leaky abstraction". However, it did give rise to Expression<T> trees which is enormously important in the C# ecosystem/evolution
@BartekBanachewicz It is a composition abstraction.
Which .NET4 goes on to show by adding parallellism and observables
 
well then
 
7:18 PM
It writes generators for you, what more do you want?
 
Monads, duh
 
Right, the M word.
 
I'd give up IQueryable in a wiff, but I'd rather not drop Expression.compile
 
@EtiennedeMartel like it was some alien strange weird concept :P
 
Wanna laugh about languages lacking proper abstraction? bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1154339
 
7:19 PM
@BartekBanachewicz It is :P
 
I use Expression to generate code for reflection stuff and then cache everything as delegates.
 
@Borgleader it's really not :F
 
@BartekBanachewicz ELI5
@EtiennedeMartel Oh that sounds interesting.
 
@sehe oh god it's the vm bug not a language problem -.-
@Borgleader it's an interface for computations that can be chained together.
 
The live demo of ramdangalur (Rambda for Angular) is ... broken. github.com/ramda/ramdangular
@EtiennedeMartel Yup. I don't think Roslyn would be a thing without that evolutionary step
 
7:21 PM
@sehe THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED 'AS IS', WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND
 
@Borgleader Roslyn of course mostly obviates it
@BartekBanachewicz So is your mom
 
@sehe NOT LIMITED TO THE (...) FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE
 
Never said your mom is fit
 
@EtiennedeMartel man that just makes me want to code in Terra
I should download it
λ brew install terra
Error: No available formula with the name "terra"
sigh
> Compiler internals in Terra have been changed to use the Zephyr Abstract Syntax Description Language (ASDL), which is also used internally in the CPython implementation.
 
7:24 PM
git rebase https://t.co/Xyrd2tDjcH
 
waaat
@sehe yeah saw that and lol'd
 
Ell
Try emerge dev-lang/terra
Oh wait u can't u nub
 
@BartekBanachewicz So... chainable functors
 
@Borgleader which functor do you mean
@Ell lol but I can run Starcraft
 
@fredoverflow oh god
 
7:26 PM
linusfags everywhere
 
They're back
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes who's back
 
I get what I deserve.
I deserve what I get.
I have it so I deserve it.
I deserve it for I have it.
I get what I deserve.
What I deserve, what I deserve what I get.
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz I can too :P
 
@Ell yes by the same logic I can use emerge
 
7:27 PM
@BartekBanachewicz string reversing people.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol what
 
You can reverse my string anytime.
 
are there such people
 
@fredoverflow The total lack of abstractions and algorithms is... disillusioning. Just look at the top two answers. It's spells "our ecosystem is not unlike that of PHP"
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz meh fair play
That should make us both happy right
 
7:29 PM
@BartekBanachewicz The questions are proof
 
@Ell not unless/until you realize what "reasonable" means
I predict that will take a year or two
 
It fails for "Hello World! 😃"
 
Ell
Idk when you said reasonable
 
@Ell that just means you're still not getting it
 
All of them.
 
7:30 PM
@sehe I don't mind that java.lang.String has no reverse method... when was the last time you needed to reverse a string?
 
My blood pressure.
 
@fredoverflow lol that argument
 
@fredoverflow exactly.
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz okay vOv
 
@BartekBanachewicz it is a rather useless operation.
 
Ell
7:31 PM
It's useful for demonstrating what a method is, and that's it :v
 
@Ell Reason isn't something you should explicitely speacify. Reasonable means not having to make the obvious more obvious.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Reversing order of things is an operation. String is a sorted sequence of things.
 
Doesn't make it any more useful.
 
Reversing a list of numbers, a list of student names, or a fucking string should be exactly the same.
 
Java has things to iterating sequences in reverse.
 
iteration is overrated
 
7:32 PM
You can't just reverse a list of chars and expect to get something meaningful.
 
@BartekBanachewicz doesn't make it any more useful
 
@fredoverflow You can just put bytes together and expect them to form something meaningful
 
@BartekBanachewicz The... regular ones?
 
@Borgleader For me that's the Category Theory one. Is that the one you meant? :P
In mathematics, a functor is a type of mapping between categories which is applied in category theory. Functors can be thought of as homomorphisms between categories. In the category of small categories, functors can be thought of more generally as morphisms. Functors were first considered in algebraic topology, where algebraic objects (like the fundamental group) are associated to topological spaces, and algebraic homomorphisms are associated to continuous maps. Nowadays, functors are used throughout modern mathematics to relate various categories. Thus, functors are generally applicable in areas...
 
Only time string reversal is useful is with palindromes.
 
7:34 PM
@BartekBanachewicz point is, the generic things you want are there. They're just useless for strings.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I meant Function object, idk wtf those things are. -.-;
 
@Borgleader see that's the c++ definition that pretty much no one else uses AFAIK
that's why I asked
in which case the answer to your question is "no"
Mostly because C++functors operate in imperative world with side effects and other stuff that doesn't really fit well with the monad as an abstraction
It's better if you start with the most generic understanding of the word "computation" you can come up with.
 
nwp
most generic as in copy everything all the time and wonder why nobody uses it?
 
I have no idea what you're talking about.
 
@fredoverflow Did you read what I said? I complained about two things, none of which were lacking methods on classes.
 
7:38 PM
The only people who give a shit about string reversal are those who ask shitty interview questions.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes that's just because the string doesn't present appropriate views for reversal
 
My complaint wasn't about string reversal. It was about the ways in which string reversal can be implemented.
 
if your string contains human input, reversing it would probably operate on ... things
 
@BartekBanachewicz no.
It has those views.
They're just borderline useless.
 
@sehe probably
 
7:40 PM
@BartekBanachewicz it would also probably produce inhuman output.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes why? They should make your emoji example work
 
@sehe No sure what you're getting at. Even if there was a "generic reverse algorithm" in Java, it would be wrong to apply it to strings.
 
@BartekBanachewicz but the reverse of my example it gibberish.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Humans do construct text written backwards, for multitude of reasons
 
Multitude?
I'll be here waiting for use cases.
 
7:41 PM
Puzzles, encryption, stylistic reasons
 
You can store passwords backwards in a database ;)
 
Wait. Bartek is arguing with the guy who wrestled with Unicode to write a text library.
 
(I know, palindromes)
Encryption?
Encryption will just do bytes.
 
I don't mean industry strength encryption
I mean primitive encryption
 
Then borderline useless.
 
7:42 PM
but adding support for it is just a matter of consistency
 
the real use cases belong to .rot13()
 
it's not that you have to specifically implement it for strings
 
@BartekBanachewicz YES YOU DO, UTF-16
 
you just need to allow me to treat string as a sequence of things
 
@BartekBanachewicz it's not.
As I said, the generic tools exist in Java.
Drop that line of argument, please.
 
7:43 PM
@fredoverflow string.graphemes().reverse()
@R.MartinhoFernandes so what are we arguing about
 
Shit man Bartek would totally do a genocide run of Undertale. Doing horrible shit just because he can.
2
 
I am not saying that a string class should have a reverse method
 
@BartekBanachewicz inb4 Java programmers circlejerking about the law of demeter
 
Ell
@EtiennedeMartel appeal to authority right? (Is it right?)
I need practise at this is all.
 
@fredoverflow reverse(graphemes(string))
fuck java idiots
@Ell yes
 
7:45 PM
@Ell No. It's just that if two people argue about a subject, and one of those clearly has more experience with that subject, I'm gonna lean towards that one.
 
@BartekBanachewicz That's just different syntax, same problem remains.
 
but bear in mind that presenting an authority view isn't always a fallacy
@fredoverflow the fuck?
 
Ell
I'm also confused about why "slippery slope" is a fallacy
 
@Ell because it makes assumptions that can go too far without proper backing
you can't prove that the slope will lie out the way you're painting it to make your argument
 
@BartekBanachewicz If you want to reverse a string, but you have to do it by asking the string for its graphemes and then reverse those, you violate the Law of Demeter.
 
7:46 PM
maybe it should be called an "extrapolation fallacy"
@fredoverflow what
 
@fredoverflow lol
I should use that more often
 
at this point I'd pretty much say fuck that demeter guy whoever he was
6
 
@fredoverflow So? What the hell difference does that make? The fact is, there is none.
 
he clearly has no clue
 
cargo cult programming is not that bad if it comes with robes and a wizard’s hat
 
7:47 PM
EACH instance of mob-style harassment generates MILLIONS of views, 100-thousands engagements + dozens/hundreds of new accounts for Twitter.
Harassment generates revenue for Twitter. How interesting.
 
@fredoverflow also "asking another class to produce a value for you" isn't "reaching for the object inside that class"
you seem to assume that graphemes list would exist as a member of said string
I am thinking about a pure view
 
@sehe Is Collections.reverse not good enough?
 
@EtiennedeMartel yeah apparently professional harassment is a thing now
 
@fredoverflow that's not LoD
 
@BartekBanachewicz That's how Milo pays his bills.
 
7:49 PM
@fredoverflow If it exists, why isn't it in the top two answers?
 
do you think I could be a professional Twitter Harasser?
 
Professional? No
 
@sehe Java programmers will circlejerk, anyway, because the syntax triggers it ;)
 
@BartekBanachewicz +1
 
Ell
@EtiennedeMartel yianapolis?
I forgot how to spell it
 
7:50 PM
@Ell That asshole, yes.
 
@sehe Because it wouldn't do the right thing due to UTF-16... we're going in circles, aren't we?
 
Ell
What makes him an asshole? I've only heard a few interviews really
 
@EtiennedeMartel who is he?
 
@fredoverflow I'm most definitely not. I wasn't aware that the stringbuf thing did "TheRightThing".
 
@sehe Well, now you are.
 
7:51 PM
@Ell He claims he's a "troll". The kind of troll that will launch is army of followers to harass anyone he doesn't like.
He's also a shit journalist who lies and misrepresents to get his views across.
 
Splendid. Only stupid thing is that it lives on that class :)
 
Oh, and he used to think gamers were idiotic manchildren until he realized he could make a ton of money by telling GamerGaters what they wanted to hear.
He lives off controversy. He likes stirring shit, harming others, and being as inflamatory as possible.
 
@EtiennedeMartel sounds like modern feminists
 
Oh dear.
 
I mean the dumb ones ofc
I always forget to prefix "feminists" with "dumb" to get my point across
 
7:56 PM
Is there a kind of feminism that isn't sexist?
 
the 1st wave
 
When was that, the 70s?
 
I think a bit earlier
> occurred within the time period of the 19th and early 20th century throughout the world
> The first women's movement was led by the Dansk Kvindesamfund ("Danish Women's Society"), founded in 1871
 
Okay, I didn't expect that early.
 
1850s in the UK, similarly in the US
@fredoverflow yeah it's gone a long way since then
from basic human rights to, well, outright sexism
but not only sexism, pretty much literally what Etienne described
"being as inflamatory as possible"
on that note, I recommend youtube.com/user/Shoe0nHead
 
7:59 PM
That old chestnut.
 

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