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user47589
9:00 PM
agreed
 
9:13 PM
I'm trying to build an xml deserialization object for recursive XML.
I accidentally the whole call stack. Is this bad?
 
you did WHAT
 
it's um... probably not GOOD...
 
the whole call stack.
 
user47589
wrap the stack in a panini
 
user47589
between the top bread layer and the first onion layer.
 
user47589
9:15 PM
then press.
 
Then press the Any key.
Then press the Amy key.
 
I wouldn't push Amy's buttons
 
user47589
rawr
 
TIL ponies rawr.
 
9:25 PM
hello, has anyone here used the performance wizard in VS2015 to compare two performance reports?
 
sorry i haven't
 
happy dance! all tests pass
 
user47589
test harder!
 
For science. You monster.
 
Does anyone know of a Mocking framework that works with UAP apps?
 
9:36 PM
@mikeTheLiar I usually for "for science" when I ask for dirty things...
 
because apparently both JustMock and Moq don't work just yet with UAP
I'd ask this as a question on the main site, but I doubt it'd stick because it's both a shopping list request and probably only temporary in nature
 
user47589
UAP? do you mean UWP?
 
@Amy yeah, UWP
but I get the error
Moq 4.2.1510.2205 is not compatible with UAP,Version=v10.0
 
System.Fix()
 
I've written a Windows 10 app with Filesystem interaction, so mocking is kinda useful for unit tests
@Nathvi Not sure what you mean by that
 
user47589
9:39 PM
no, i dont think any frameworks support UWP yet. you can move your testable code into a portable library and test that though
 
It's a cool new feature
It writes all the code you want.
 
@Nathvi the code I WANT, or the code I NEED?
 
Those two things are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
 
user47589
the answer to that question is unequivocally "yes"
 
42
 
9:40 PM
Is there anyone on here who's an expert on threading?
 
I am
 
@mikeTheLiar anyways, my question early about not being able to simply create copies of forms. It was more a question of do you find it odd?
 
user47589
just ask your question
 
lol jk
 
@Amy That might be the best option. This might seem a bit weird, but does that go against the spirit of MVVM, splitting your Model and Viewmodel into a separate project?
 
9:41 PM
@Michael Everything about WinForms is odd.
 
I like recursive questions though
 
cool! suppose you wanted to reliably use Socket.BeginReceive, and you were to update offset & count at every EndReceive call, would you need a lock or volatile variables in order to synchronize this?
 
user47589
no @NateKerkhofs, i don't think so.
 
reliably as in, ensuring that all of "count" is received
 
@Codeman were you not here for the discussion of Amy's buttons?
 
9:42 PM
amy's buttons?
 
@mikeTheLiar have you graduated to wpf?
 
user47589
MVVM is a logical structure, and doesn't have to 1-1 correspond to the physical filesystem structure.
 
@mikeTheLiar nope
 
mvvvmmvm
 
@Nathvi now you just sound like someone with a gag in their mouth
 
9:42 PM
@Michael We are very slowly chopping out parts of our application and replacing them with WPF. Large parts are still Winforms
 
That's funny, because I am someone with a gag in their mouth
I only code with gags
 
However, it looks we're going to start slowly transitioning to microservices/a very thin web client instead. My teams kinda being pulled in multiple, disparate directions.
 
@mikeTheLiar what is your experience with it so far being a winforms guy for so long?
 
hehehehehehehehehehehehhee
 
Doesn't anyone know? :(
 
9:44 PM
i need beer. and liquor.
 
WPF has it's own set of weirdness but it's much more maintainable
 
I know everything
 
Like, I was trying to make a button style that was going to be inherited by all buttons.
 
@Nathvi me too
 
It applied to all buttons except for those in a task bar.
Because apparently those are different when nested.
 
9:45 PM
if you guys know everything you can respond to my question ¯_ツ_/¯
 
hmm.
 
With a request like that, the answer is Pickle
 
Is WPF like the most current framework for desktop apps then?
 
@Michael Will the app ever need to be ported to anything other than a desktop?
 
Actually I think MS has moved on to something else now but WPF is still going strong
 
9:46 PM
@Michael most current .NET, yes. Not counting Store apps.
 
@RyanTernier Idk I was just asking in general
 
@hl3mukkel the WPF room would be better to ask about threading
 
@RyanTernier the same pickles that mcdonalds puts on double quarter pounders, by chance?
 
There are 2 directions for desktop apps: Modern (Universal) and WPF-WinForm style apps
 
WPF is the current for "desktop" apps - though UWP is the new hotness in MS' eyes if you're targetting Windows 10
 
9:47 PM
Winforms is good if you just need to thrown something together quickly without thinking about it too much and never need to touch it again
 
but WPF is the best for desktop
 
@juanvan Alright thanks
 
well not any more
Reed is here
 
@mikeTheLiar blasphemy - WinForms just sucks :p
 
is Modern like those Windows 8 / 10 metro apps?
@ReedCopsey winforms is def usable lol
I use it ever day
 
9:47 PM
its like he hears Threading and is here
 
@Michael the bigger the project gets the more it sucks hard.
 
ryan doesn't like me :(
 
@mikeTheLiar I know that.
 
user47589
I tapped 3 blue and 2 red and played Summon Reed Copsey
 
@Michael Yes, Universal Windows Platform (MOdern style apps) are what windows 10 has.
 
9:48 PM
@Michael Yes, but it's almost impossible to build something (without a huge amount of library support) that isn't designed like a steaming pile of way-past-prime spaghetti
wha'ts the threading issue?
 
The Code-Behind pattern doesn't lend itself to good design.
 
The thing is
 
user47589
7 mins ago, by hl3mukkel
cool! suppose you wanted to reliably use Socket.BeginReceive, and you were to update offset & count at every EndReceive call, would you need a lock or volatile variables in order to synchronize this?
 
yes
 
9:49 PM
simple tasks - in a waterfall design - Winforms
 
I want to ensure that BeginReceive has read all the bytes, even if it has to wait for them in multiple steps
so should I make a volatile int storing the current offset?
 
So I installed Microsoft's recent "Azure Storage Explorer" desktop app, and I noticed an option in the help menu "Enable developer tools", and it opens up some DOM inspector: i.imgur.com/c7kNeFC.png
 
My mother works for a hospital that uses DOSy UIs and this old point-point-point printers. and you're telling me people are moving away from wpf? damn
 
or shall I use a lock or Interlocked to increment the count? Since the EndReceive gets called from the threadpool I do need to implement synchronization, right?
 
@juanvan I was brought up with VB 3 (back in 1990), so i used to think winforms was "easier" to setup. I forced myself to start using WPF for everything and I have to say it's as fast to get something decent up and running for a POC.
 
9:50 PM
hmm, I forget how to do this... GIT wise
 
So apparently MS's current direction for desktop apps is to make web apps
 
user47589
@SandKing, mainframe application?
 
user47589
@Codeman, i agree, GIT is wise.
 
I had a merge conflict so I cut a new branch off of master. I cherry-picked all of my changes in, resolving conflicts, then tried to force push into my other remote, but it won't do it as it sees all the same commits (without my conflict resolutions)
 
@MikeAsdf it's a shame that the web is so popular and so broken.
 
9:51 PM
WPF desktop apps don't generate HTML do they?
 
user47589
no
 
nah
 
is there a way to say "oy GIT, I don't care about commit messages, I want the remote branch to match my local branch exactly"
 
@Amy I guess...
 
user47589
mainframe applications are still common in large corporations
 
9:52 PM
@MikeAsdf It doesn't, However, in theory, if you properly design/build your WPF app you could easily port it to a web app with minimal work. But... i'll believe it when i see it
@Amy I currently work with them in Enterprise Health apps. If you query them too much you get an old guy with a beard running up from the basement yelling at you
 
Just making sure what I was seeing was in fact not normal
 
user47589
@RyanTernier scary
 
@Codeman uh, why would it not match, in terms of commit messages?
 
@KendallFrey sorry, not messages... hashes
 
@Amy Our Mainframe guy has been doing it for 40 years... and you can tell :|
 
9:54 PM
@Codeman hashes are pretty important. I'm not sure what the question is though
 
the cherry picks have the same commit hashes because I cherry picked them... but I resolved the conflicts in my new branch. I want to force push those changes to my original branch, but GIT says "these commits are already here, there's nothing to do"
 
user47589
companies need to let their mainframe guys out more often for sunshine and awkward conversations
 
I have some comments on a PR that I care about or I would just delete and re-add the branch
 
Okay, so I created a Class Library (Portable), but now I can't find a way to use Windows.Storage, for StorageFolder and StorageFile
 
@Amy Haha. Ours has a Cot and a sleeping bed in his desk just "in case"
 
9:55 PM
Wait, if the hashes are on the remote then git is right to reject them.
 
normally yes
 
Because they're already there
 
but I want to say "no, actually, my versions of these commits are correct, overwrite yours"
 
I'm confused. Where did you cherry pick from?
 
user47589
i think Richmond from IT Crowd was supposed to make fun of mainframe guys, but they didn't do much with him.
 
9:56 PM
@Codeman in SVN I'd take the master branch and manually put my changes in there
 
And force push didn't work? What happens if you do a pull from the remote?
 
@Codeman If both hashes are the same, aren't the commits the same? and thus, does it really matter what version of the commits they use?
 
@hl3mukkel You shouldn't need a lock/offset - in general, you'd want to wait to call BeginReceive on the socket until after you've called endreceive from the previous call - so the data was already there
 
I'm with @NateKerkhofs. I don't think I understand what's going on here.
 
@mikeTheLiar I cut a new branch from master, cherry picked my changes in, resolving conflicts along the way. Now I want to force push to my original branch, but the hashes are the same, so GIT says "nothing needs to be done"
 
9:57 PM
if the offset wasn't what you wanted, you'd have to just keep calling BR/ER until it gets there
 
"The explorer is written entirely in JavaScript (ES2015). It uses the popular MVC framework Ember.js to render the application. Communication and interaction with the Azure Storage API is driven by the official Azure Storage Node SDK, which is directly consumed by Ember via an Ember Data Adapter.

You might be wondering how we're using Node in a web-based app: The Azure Storage Explorer is compiled down to a NW.js application, which allows running Chromium's frontend JavaScript and Node.js code on the same thread."
 
since it's only one thread using the offset at a time, there's no need for locking there, really
 
@Codeman Doesn't the hash include the working directory? If you cheery-pick a commit, it should have a different hash if based on a different state, right?
 
the callbacks are going to form memory barriers, so you don't have to worry about out of date state
or at least shouldn't
 
@KendallFrey cherry-pick keeps the same hash, I believe
 
9:58 PM
!!doge madness javascript node.js insanity
 
        wow
much madness javascript node.js insanity
 
if you really wanted to be "safe" and were worried about that (which I think isn't required), you could do an atomic exchange with Interlocked for the offset
 
If the cherry picked commits have merge conflicts they need to be re-committed.
 
@Codeman That doesn't make sense
a hash isn't based on the diff, afaict
 
user47589
@KendallFrey Sense that does not make.
 
9:58 PM
@Codeman but if you cherry picked them from a local branch they won't be on the remote
 
@ReedCopsey oh cool! I didn't know that thank you, so basically there's a memory barrier above all of the Begin<?> End<?> methods? Since I didn't read about that anywhere, thank you very much :)
 
I think your cherry picks aren't committed.
 
I believe you effectively get one from the CLR when you do the delegate invocations
 
They're only auto-committed if there's no merge conflict
 
I cherry picked them from a branch that is in the remote I want to push my new branch to
 
9:59 PM
but, if you're really worried about it, use Interlocked.CompareExchange or something to do the update
 
(holy shit at some point git actually started to a make a tiny bit of sense to me)
 
there was a merge conflict, and I did commit them
 
ah okay, too bad it isn't always clear :( & Yeah I'll try thanks :)
 
@Codeman okay, let's recreate the steps
1) Create branch
2) Do some work
3) Commit and push
4) Attempt to merge
5) Merge conflicts
6) Create fresh branch with no changes
7) Cherry pick from step 3, resolving merge conflicts as you go
 
Branch A is pushed to remote.
I create a PR for it.
PR has merge conflicts
I create branch B
I cherry-pick all of my commits from branch A into branch B, resolving conflicts as I go
I attempt to force push from branch B to remote A
Nothing happens, as the commits match, even though the code doesn't (because of merge conflict resolutions)
 
10:02 PM
Is that where we are right now or did I miss something?
 
basically, the merge conflict resolutions are what I wanna push
 
Oh yeah, that won't work. You'll either have to merge B to A or delete A from the remote.
Or abandon A and create a new PR for B
 
there's no way to say... reset A?
oh... I guess I could delete A locally and create a new branch from B then force push A?
let's try that...
 
Probably a interactive rebase but I don't know much about those. Scary and dangerous.
Interactive rebase is probably what you wanted in the first place
 
I did this explicitly to avoid interactive rebases. Those are a nightmare
 
10:05 PM
Yeah, in that case I'm pretty sure you're boned.
 
@Codeman I'm pretty sure that if commits match, the code matches, by definition
 
You want to re-write history. Only way to do that is through and interactive rebase.
 
nope, my idea worked :)
 
I deleted A locally, branched from B to A's original name, then did a force push. Worked like a charm, my original PR with comments is still there
 
10:07 PM
@Codeman I guess that works too. Wouldn't want to do that to a branch where others are working on as well, though
 
it's rare that we share a branch on my team
 
Stuff like this is why try to rebase onto develop pretty frequently
 
BTW, Google is giving 2 GB of Google Drive to everyone who does a security checkup by February 11th 2016: googledrive.blogspot.be/2016/02/safer-internet-day-2016.html
or has that been mentioned yet?
 
user47589
i saw it on feedly
 
user47589
AFAIK it hasn't been mentioned in here
 
10:08 PM
not sure what I'd use it for
 
@mikeTheLiar I made a large change in a file the same time somebody else made a large change. It was a bit of a mess
 
@MikeAsdf You never know when it might come in handy, though
 
@Codeman ah yes, I've had that happen.
 
yeah.
 
cough ssis cough
 
10:10 PM
lol, even SQL execution plans are less thrashy than SSIS plans
 
user47589
SSIS has plans? i thought it just threw things at the database until something stuck
 
I once had to merge two people's ssis changes from two SVN branches.
 
Okay, so Windows.Storage access in a portable library project. How?
or is that just not possible?
 
Without even one attempt, I knew I was fucked, so I just chose one as the "base" and manually re-created the other person's changes by hand using the shitty "fun with rectangles" editor
 
@MikeAsdf MS Paint?
 
10:11 PM
@NateKerkhofs is it supported by the PCL?
 
@Codeman PCL?
 
portable class library
 
@MikeAsdf Holy digging ducks batman. I thought i was the only one who had to work with VS 2005 shit.
 
user47589
10:13 PM
@Codeman, background: nate is trying to mock a UWP project. i suggested he move the code to be tested into a portable library.
 
eww
 
@Codeman Doesn't look like it.
 
user47589
since UWP isn't currently supported by AFAIK any mocking frameworks
 
@MikeAsdf NOW I GOT YER SECRETS, MWAH HAH HAH
 
those were hastily googled examples, but yeah I recall having to keep old copies of VS around for editing
 
10:14 PM
@Amy if he has the "I have more money than brains" version of Visual Studio, he could use Fakes
 
user47589
good lord jesus christ
 
Fakes does an actual assembly intercept and swap
 
user47589
i have zero familiarity with Fakes. Is that related to Pex/Moles?
 
I keep VS2013 around so I can test workflows without messing up my own install
@Amy Fakes is new Moles.
 
user47589
ah okay
 
10:15 PM
since Moles is deprecated
 
one day, i'm going to post a pic of my dick in here, and tell you all to suck it, before i disappear forever
 
@SteveG :(
 
user47589
please don't.
 
@SteveG I don't think the resolution on my screen could render that picture. Let me shrink it to 640x480 first.
 
@RyanTernier I was thinking about making that joke...
 
10:15 PM
in '13-'14, I had to work with someone else on an Embedded Windows 6.0 winforms app which had to be done in VS 2008. Especially fun was how it essentially has no support for modern source control concepts like branches
 
user47589
lol
 
@SteveG hahaha
 
@RyanTernier you can suck it twice
 
@SteveG super Kami Guru "Have you told him to work the shaft?"
 
user47589
urgh
 
10:17 PM
that's a Dragonball Z Abridged reference btw
 
@NateKerkhofs I AM AN ADUUUUULT
 
user47589
i tried watching DBZ Kai last night. Maybe I'm just too old for DBZ now.
 
DBZ was way better when I was 13 :\
 
@Codeman DO I HEAR 6!
 
10:17 PM
@RyanTernier fortunately we recently got rid of the 2005 parts of our app. Unfortunately we didn't get rid of the VB6 part.
 
user47589
why would you want to? VB6 was great, a veritable bastion of awesomeness
 
cat vomiting noise
 
I wrote my first programs using VB6, lol
 
hurka hurka hurka
 
well... my first programs after TI-BASIC
 
10:18 PM
@mikeTheLiar When I joined CGI I saw this app I had to manage and lead, and started then designing what it would look like in 5 years. Almost 5 years later, we're there. .nET 4.5.2, no more biztalk, custom SOA WCF application (SOAP) with a custom Asynchronous engine built in.
@Amy Wend. fucking wend.
 
@Codeman I don't think that's uncommon
 
@RyanTernier Wend? you don't mean... Zend?
 
Haha. I used zend back in 2000 when I was dabbling with that virus called PHP
 
I think I've told this story before but when I took physics in HS I programmed all of the equations into my TI-83 and then sold them to the rest of my class
 
I'll have to read up on this whole PCL thing tomorrow. I'm too tired to really get into it right now
 
10:20 PM
Annoyed all my prof's in University when I kept saying "PHP is a Scripting language, it's not code!"
 
user47589
lol
 
@RyanTernier we have some profs that know only php and js here...
 
My Calculus prof. claimed he loved Log's so much he'd marry them if he could.
 
Calling PHP a "scripting language" is being charitable.
 
Calling PHP a language is being charitable
 
10:22 PM
@RyanTernier last semester I was thought data structures before being thought algorithm.. in JAVA screams internally
 
Calling PHP... what am I kidding, why would I ever want to call PHP. Might as well call Crabs or some other weird nasty @#%@#%
 
user47589
I wouldn't wish PHP on my worst enemy.
 
user47589
and I have many.
 
you can't have many worst enemies...grammatically
 
@Amy how can you have more than 1 worst enemy? Isn't that like having several favorite colors?
 
10:23 PM
@SandKing Can I have bestest enemies?
 
If I ever end up teaching a programming class it's going to be exclusively in jicamaJS
 
user47589
they're all clones of the same enemy
 
@RyanTernier stack overflows
 
public class a { public a() { a A = new a();}
 
public Property { get {return Property; } }
 
10:25 PM
BTW, in case any of you are bored enough to do some code reviews: codereview.stackexchange.com/questions/119325/… That's the UWP project I'm working on. Github repo is in there as well
 
user47589
i'm only 42% bored enough to do a code review.
 
Feel free to lambast me for how poorly I implemented MVVM or whatever
 
user47589
you're gonna have to increase my boredom by a lot.
 
@Amy I'll hotwire your television to only show cooking shows if that will help
 
That sounds great
 
user47589
10:26 PM
i watch those anyway.
 
@Amy I'm talking about children cookies shows.
 
@NateKerkhofs But cooking shows are great
@NateKerkhofs Satan spotted
 
@SteveG nice loading gif
 
lol, I broke tsqltidy.com trying to format 5000 lines of SQL
 
@Amy Okay, I'll rewire your television to only broadcast Spanish reruns of neighbors
 
@RyanTernier you're my new hero
 
Meanwhile, I'm stuck with a copy of Big Red Dog Writes Hello World in every single language
BTW, remember to patch your Windows tomorrow: zdnet.com/article/february-2016-patch-tuesday
or tonight, or whatever
I do it on Wednesdays because that's when the updates arrive in Belgium.
 
Can Entity Framework do multiple table returns, with a single Stored Procedure call?
 
10:33 PM
Is everyone not bored enough for code review btw, or is it just Rainbowdash who thinks themselves too cool for it?
 
@NateKerkhofs It's called work. I gota do it to get paid, sorry :\
 
@Greg i think no
 
@NateKerkhofs yeah I might take a look later, but I actually have a decent amount of work to do first... ;)
 
i have an issue with a linq2sql query, i get a timeout, but when i execute the generated SQL in my sql server management studio i get the result within a second.
 
@qd0r It can read multiple tables?
 
10:40 PM
@Greg The Entity Framework does not directly support stored procedures that return multiple resultsets, though it is possible to get this behavior in EF4 by using the Translate method and ExecuteStoreReader.
 
Ah, okay.
 
i used datacontext.Log to get the result
 
@Greg However, the Entity Framework team has provided sample utilities, the EFExtensions, on the MSDN Code Gallery that will enable you to consume multiple resultsets.
 
Any examples?
You can point me to?
 
@Jeremy Yeah, I understand. Doesn't have to be right away obviously. I'm about to go to bed myself, so I don't really expect anything in the next 9 hours or so
 
10:42 PM
that's why I didn't wanted to paste that from the documentation at first, sadly I couldn't find examples .
I have a dream that one day all questions that start with "Can Entity Framework" are answered positive kek
 
Actually, i should say that I don't have any expectations at all, I'm just curious to see what can be improved
 
FML my manager just decided to push changes to the public-facing website 10 minutes before the end of the work day
 
wooooo
 
What a fuckin' cowboy.
 
does he go on vacation tomorrow?
 
10:51 PM
did he break it?
 
@SteveG yeah, apparently git is screaming at him about something being wrong in his local repository.
"Don't worry, I've got everything backed up" OMFG
I suppose it's better than the alternative
 
not having it backed up?
 
Right.
 
Left?
 
I'll have left the building at 5:59:59.
 
10:54 PM
my bus has been over half an hour late for the last few weeks...
it's annoying 'cause the one time I come later than the scheduled time is the one time it'll be on time
 
is that time you have to make up, since it's a msft bus?
 
@SteveG time I have to make up? what do you mean?
 
i dont know
 
nobody gives a fuck how much or where I work as long as I get my shit done
luckily I have a manager who doesn't attempt to overwork me, too
 
My company's kinda bullshit like that. We have contracts with various government agencies that require hourly timesheets so we have to be pretty careful about it
 
10:58 PM
we just show up for 40/week, and just do trello cards we pick from the board
we don't keep timesheets or anything, and very flexible with the time
 
y'all have a preferred article for explaining lazy loading for LINQ Selects? sans EF stuff
 
11:16 PM
edulinq
> The input sequence is not modified in any way.
> The method uses deferred execution – until you start trying to fetch items from the output sequence, it won’t start fetching items from the input sequence.
> Despite deferred execution, it will validate that the parameters aren’t null immediately.
> It streams its results: it only ever needs to look at one result at a time.
> It will iterate over the input sequence exactly once each time you iterate over the output sequence.
> The "selector" function is called exactly once per yielded value.
 
@TravisJ thanks - I sent that out to my team
 
:)
Jon does a really spectacular job explaining linq in that series
 
a coworker asked if he had multiple selects, if each piped function was executed in a for loop
 
And as a massive plus, its free
 
exactly what I said. lol
 
11:20 PM
:)
@qd0r - Are you using lazy loading?
 

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