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user1804599
8:00 PM
 
@rightfold Is that it?
 
@rightfold it's full of shit
 
are preprocessor directives part of the standard
 
depends on the directive
 
I want a directive that takes a file path and converts it to a byte array. I should ask the iso cpp google group
 
8:04 PM
pretty sure that doesn't really exist
 
@Pris sorry what
 
@Puppy I know ;__;
 
I mean, what you really want is an embedded resource, no?
 
Alright
@Rapptz @CatPlusPlus what to play today?
 
Yeah but without delegating to another compiler or util etc
 
8:05 PM
Starbound.
 
but it doesn't work on MSVC
 
@Pris The compiler has no need to serve this purpose.
 
Starbound?
Hm... Too much like Terraria
 
Well 'need' and 'handy' are two different things right?
 
@Cinch They're not really that similar at all I feel.
 
8:06 PM
@Puppy Similar concepts... Something 3d maybe?
 
I wouldn't really call them as having terribly similar concepts either.
unless you mean "Game where you mine blocks", which describes a lot of games now.
@Cinch Did you play FTL?
 
@Puppy what?
 
hmmmmmm
meh
something free?
 
I have yet to encounter any free games worth playing.
 
8:09 PM
@Puppy Cave Story
 
although actually you could download Starcraft 2 and play on the Arcade for free, I think.
 
Lots of Flash games, in fact
 
@Cinch He said worth playing
 
@khajvah Sonny, The Company of Myself, Gemcraft
Transmission...
 
My laptop is slow for that shit
 
8:11 PM
@khajvah What.
Oh
and don't forget Epic Battle Fantasy series
 
I am serious, even facebook lags
 
They're literally full games
 
Ven
@Puppy I think you can even play Sc2 with a friend, if he has the game (and you don't)
 
@Puppy life... oh wait
 
Ven
@Puppy osu! is a free game worth playing, btw :>
 
8:21 PM
@Ven Yep
> osu! gameplay is based on a variety of popular commercial rhythm games.
closed tab
 
user1804599
lol
 
user1804599
badass bird
 
@Puppy looolll
 
Ven
@Puppy it's a rhythm game. like osu!endan
 
8:22 PM
@Ven no.
 
@Ven Hence why I closed the tab.
 
Flash Flash Revolution was okay and that's it.
 
Ven
@Cinch what? yes it is
 
@Ven I mean, no I'm not playing that
 
Ven
@Puppy ah well, to each their own :)
 
8:23 PM
@rightfold pica pica?
 
Ven
@Cinch i don't care what you're playing
 
in English Language & Usage on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 5 mins ago, by Johan Larsson
> The magpie will fuck its tail up http://i.imgur.com/WSmsa.jpg - http://i.imgur.com/GYI52.jpg -- TheGingerBeardedBiologist
 
that bird might be in trouble as well, fox is not gonna give up without a fight
 
> GemCraft is a tower defense flash game
didn't even click the link
 
I found a great free game.
 
8:29 PM
@Cinch awesome comeback
 
so I never got an answer last time... well I did, but I asked the wrong question... what do I get out of having support for compiling with clang?
 
@sehe thanks
@Puppy it is the best tower defense game
It's worthy of its own port to a handheld, in my opinion
 
Xeo
@Xeo I am 100% sure I'm using unordered_multimap and my code is compiling and working perfectly on Visual Studio 2013. — Andreas Vennström 1 min ago
I'm confused.
 
@thecoshman Uh... JIT-Clang and Clang?
 
user1804599
I wonder whether APL's symbols existed before APL existed.
 
8:31 PM
@Cinch ... compiling with Clang... to a standalone executable...
 
@thecoshman uhhhh not being GCC?
 
user1804599
 
@Cinch That is not saying a great deal.
 
@Puppy Whatever. Try it once, and see what you think
 
@Cinch and I would care about that why?
 
8:32 PM
@thecoshman idk
 
@thecoshman scan-build (static analysis) is one benefit
 
so basically... I'm just wasting time trying to get my builds working with clang
@StackedCrooked how big of a benefit though?
 
@Cinch Play Factorio.
 
One question as you are speaking about clang. Why is it that every plugin for text editors(autocomplete and shit like that) is based on clang ?
 
@thecoshman i don't think it's a waste of time
it's always good to compile with more than one compiler
 
8:33 PM
@khajvah ...because there's nothing better?
 
as it covers a broader range of warnings and narrows the range of incompatible stuff
 
@StackedCrooked agreed
 
@StackedCrooked well for a library sure, but for an end executable... as long as it builds correctly to my platforms... what's the point?
 
if it's just for you then maybe there's no point
I was speaking in general.
 
sure
bah, fuck building with clang then.
 
8:36 PM
@milleniumbug whatttt
 
wow, color blindness might be curable in the future
 
I don't want to sink time into 'fixing' problems that I don't have
 
that would be nice, since I'm slightly color blind
 
ok
"The Company of Myself" is OK (not great though really)
 
I am actually a proper color blind but I don't care really
 
8:37 PM
@StackedCrooked slightly?
 
@Puppy Epic Battle Fantasy 3.
Or 2
 
@thecoshman the red-green type
 
I see a different world
 
@StackedCrooked Ohhhh.
 
:D
 
8:38 PM
@StackedCrooked oh right, that's still colour blind :P
I thought you meant like you are only colour blind for some shades of the colours.
 
color* (British poeple are gonna burn me)
 
@khajvah you go to hell! you go to hell and die!
 
color?
Ohhh right british people
 
you have to die first before you can go to hell
 
I bet you had a hard time watching The Last Airbender
"I always knew you were a bender from the start."
 
8:46 PM
Guys, are the stack variables initialized before executing any instruction? i.e. Is the compiler searching for variables first before doing anything else?
 
what?
 
I expected that.
 
foo(){ int x; } // x is not initialised for you
 
Ven
stack variables aren't free to initialize
so the compiler doesn't do it for you
(for some definition of "free" ;-).)
 
well... for int it isn't
 
8:48 PM
Local variables are default-initialized, which for scalar types means do nothing, right?
 
damn, I can't formulate my question. I will look at generated assembly code
 
for a class the constructor will be called
which may or may not initialise it's members, but should make the object ready to use.
 
void fun()
{
    int i;
    std::cout << i;   // undefined behavior
}
 
@fredoverflow for primitive types AFAIK.
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow only when foo is called.
 
8:50 PM
"Primitive type" is not part of standard C++.
 
Ven
UB? it'll surely print something
 
@thecoshman No. Consider struct foo { int i; };.
 
@fredoverflow I didn't think it would be :P
 
Ven
well, I guess it doesn't have to
 
user1804599
@Ven wrong.
 
8:50 PM
@Ven No, reading from an uninitialized int is UB.
 
Ven
@rightfold see my line just before yours ;-)
 
user1804599
The compiler can optimise out std::cout << i;.
 
@LucDanton and then read the next line
 
Ven
@fredoverflow see my line 2 lines before yours
 
@thecoshman Have you considered foo f {};?
 
8:51 PM
@LucDanton that's not calling the default constructor though is it, that's calling it with an init list
foo f{}' is not the same as foo f;
 
a) wat b) foo f = foo();, or even just foo().
 
foo() is value-initialization.
 
^that’s the ticket
 
@Ven it's UB, the run time could throw a wobbly, the int could be given a default value, it could print message about the fragrance of your mother
 
Ven
@thecoshman you can't be more oblivious than that
 
8:54 PM
@Ven what?
 
Ven
@thecoshman You're the third person I'm telling "read the whole history".
 
@Pris first: you said that yesterday
 
@Ven what?
 
yesterday, by Pris
https://github.com/graphitemaster/incbin
@Pris second: xxd -i does this more succinctly, I think.
@Ven you must be very proud of me ^^
 
Ven
@thecoshman ELEARN2BACKLOG
 
user1804599
8:56 PM
sehe!!!11 :D
 
Ven
@sehe I always am.
 
Liar
 
Ven
:'(
 
@khajvah for misspelling people, yes
 
Ven
it's true, I always pray to the boost god hehehe
 
8:57 PM
@sehe xxd needs to be installed on windows, so that defeats the point of having it magically work with only the compiler
 
misspelled boost god sehehe
 
@Ven what on earth are you on about? as far as I can tell, the message we are responding to is you saying that it surely prints something... there is nothing further back to respond to... and the answer is still the same... it's UB
 
@Pris gurgle. "with only the compiler". Your compiler knows how to get it form github? :)
 
Ven
7 mins ago, by Ven
well, I guess it doesn't have to
 
ok my real question is: Why can't arrays get variables as their maximum sizes when defined ?
 
8:58 PM
NSFW: Search google images for "trypophobia".
Somebody asked what amazed me.
 
I find it amazing how disgusting I find the images.
 
@khajvah It's a stack thing, you wouldn't understand.
 
@Ven ffs so you are making a big deal about people telling you something that you already agree with?
 
Ven
@thecoshman no, you're making one. you're trying to correct me after two people already tried, and you're denying the fact I already answered them in the backlog.
 
9:00 PM
@Nooble I found you!
 
@wilx I find most of these "trigger images" just beautiful (I've seen some superfically gross-looking things in the google image results, sure)
 
@Ven I'm not denying, I'm fucking confused. You could have simple said "yeah, already said that"
 
@orlp dat perspective
 
@wilx most of the images are most just disgusting things... not 'holes'
 
Ven
@thecoshman you could've backlogged the first time. and then the second time when I said "backlog". and then ..
 
9:01 PM
@sehe I am not going to visit that link. :)
 
@khajvah No seriously, when a function call is being made it is inconvenient to have the stack frame calculated at runtime.
 
@sehe I have a very very mild trypophobia
 
Do you think its reasonable to say only clang and gcc are supported for a project? Can Windows users compile with clang without much difficulty? I don't really know what the status of clang support on windows is these days
 
this is probably the worst trigger for me from that page: ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr02/2013/9/11/18/…
 
@CaptainGiraffe Inconvenient or impossible?
 
9:01 PM
which is just a feeling of unease
 
@khajvah Inconvenient
 
@thecoshman I honestly find it haunting me. I have noticed that in my youtube feed, I found the keyword and I had to close the search page like immediately.
 
@Ven was my 'what' not clearly idnticating my confusion to you?
 
@khajvah As it's not the cheapest way possible to do stuff.
 
Ugh Unity
I feel like I'm betraying somebody
 
Ven
9:03 PM
@thecoshman no. it was "i didn't see that". also, people notice you're still not dropping the topic..
 
@orlp I don't get it. It doesn't work for me. Yes, it's gross (because, you know, photoshopped for effect). But it looks too fake to really be gross. I guess when used in a horror movie, it will still work
 
@CaptainGiraffe Well, if it doesn't know what the size is going to be of that array, how is it going to allocated enough space for the stack?
 
> [...] insightful definition of AI: Artificial Intelligence is everything a computer can't do yet. As soon as it can, we call it obvious.
3
> One reason we easily dismiss the astonishing things computers can do is that we know that they don't carry around a narrative, a play by play, the noise in their head that's actually (in our view) 'intelligence.'
Deep
> It turns out, though, that the narrative is a bug, not a feature.
 
ok
I thought that Gemcraft was fun enough for the first minute or two.
but it's just as bad as all the other TDs.
 
TD?
 
9:06 PM
tower defence.
 
@Ven oh well excuse me from not running in terror at slightest sign of a potential faux pas
 
@Puppy It's decent
the challenge is what makes it enjoyable
 
a.k.a. you require no useful strategy and the game runs super slowly to boot.
 
@Puppy No
you must be on the early levels
 
@Cinch As far as I could determine, there was none.
 
9:06 PM
@sehe I think it is just another layer of monitoring and decision making above lower layer. A feedback loop of sort.
There is no free will.
 
@Puppy Which one are you playing?
 
Ven
@thecoshman it's alright. let's drop it now, it seems p pointless
 
I googled Gemcraft and picked the first one.
 
You should try Chasing Shadows
@Puppy No, play the latest one
 
given your track record, I think I will instead conclude that you have minimal taste in games
 
9:07 PM
@Puppy Whatever.
Have you played Homeworld?
 
@wilx Thanks for adding that. At least now we don't have to guess about hobby-horses :)
 
@Ven you're a dick
 
yes
 
@wilx Yup. By the way
 
@Puppy I think it's a super great game
 
Ven
9:07 PM
@thecoshman no, really. let's drop the topic.
 
It deserves a Homeworld 3
 
@thecoshman carry on
 
Homeworld has promise as a concept and an interesting-enough execution but the balance is a bit off, at least at current.
 
@Ven keep it uyp
 
and I'm not sure if the concepts even permit a good balance.
 
9:08 PM
@Puppy What's your favorite game?
You're a bit hard to please lol
 
@Ven it is, you're still a dick
 
user1804599
This code is beautiful: {⍵/⍨~{⍵∨≠\⍵}⍵∊'<>'}.
 
@sehe I do not understand. Hobby-horses?
 
user1804599
And quite easy to follow.
 
probably System Shock 2 or Supreme Commander/FA.
 
Ven
9:08 PM
@sehe I'll keep it uyp
@thecoshman ok
 
@Cinch I require that my games offer immediate and deep strategic choice.
 
@Puppy Ohh.
I see.
 
either that
 
So you must like Dwarf Fortress and that stuff
 
or they're in the CS brand of play, shoot some people in the face, stop playing.
 
9:09 PM
Welp hm...
 
@Cinch I get the feeling that I could really like it, but as far as I can tell, nobody has managed to make a really playable version.
 
@Puppy What is deep strategic? It seems to me that games like Supreme Commander (at least the single player) require little strategy. You can usually out-manufacture the computer oponents.
 
@wilx I mean. That was highly unprompted. And a very very bold claim. I happen to agree, but your stating it makes it clear it's somehow not up for debate/something you love to defend
 
@wilx Yes, but those are computer opponents.
 
Fighting games have a surprising amount of depth if you play the anime kinds
 
9:10 PM
there's practically never any strategy in computer opponents.
 
@Ven still lying :)
 
Guilty Gear and BlazBlue are great fighting games with a superb amount of depth
 
and ftr
 
StarCraft is obvious
 
the Supreme Commander campaign was terrible and everybody knows it :P
so was the FA campaign.
 
9:11 PM
Guilty Bear
 
Um...
League of Legends is a favorite of mine because of the deep meta but everyone knows that one.
 
@sehe LMAO. Everything is up for debate.
 
if you want proper strategy you've only got two choices, which is to go multiplayer or the game rules are inherently fairly deep, like KSP.
 
@orlp :P
 
You'd probably like Toribash
 
9:12 PM
@wilx 1 + 1 = 2.
@Cinch I actually don't really like it.
 
@wilx (but why)
 
I do not have to like paste a bunch of references for each and every thing I say, do I?
 
@Puppy What.
 
@orlp Coincidentally, I'm boarding a plane today, currently at the airport.
 
@Puppy Well, this debate would be very short. :)
 
9:12 PM
Well don't worry
 
StarCraft does have some layer of strategy but it's covered in a thick layer of "Build more workers with an 0.001s reaction time or you lose"
 
I'm making a strategy game.
(Go play Go or something)
 
I like to watch professional Starcraft because they almost never fuck that part up, so it's much deeper as a sport than as an actual game for people to play.
 
@Puppy Civilization?
 
The question was more of a "why claim things at all".
I thought that was the domain of rightfolds and cinches.
And puppies. And cats. Okay. Maybe you have a point.
 
9:13 PM
the AI is crappy.
at least from memory.
 
the AI is obvious :)
 
@Puppy I wonder on what level they do things actually consciously.
 
Can you please explain to me what does this mean? : sub $0xe0,%rsp
 
@sehe Did you have any high hopes I was different? :)
 
hm...
 
9:14 PM
Yeah. Sorry
 
I said that because it seemed related to the subject of the discussion.
 
@khajvah It subtracts a value from the stackpointer ("allocates locals")
 
Welp I had an idea for a Rune-based game
Maybe you'd like that
 
Man, those images. I am still itching everywhere.
 
@wilx Yeah. Well, that's was a total surprise smackdown. I don't see how something that "cooked","conclusive" was related to some rather openended reflections on AI
 
9:15 PM
Much like when my kids had lice.
@sehe Well, it was, in my head.
 
@Cinch wtf is rune-based
 
@wilx :) I didn't even make a connection with itching. All I had was a fleeting moment of stomach muscle contraction when viewing the "unexplainable" gross photoshops
 
@Puppy You have 4 runes to make use of, and you weave spells together.
 
@sehe That too.
 
You have four bars of resources, and each will determine success or failure
 
9:17 PM
Now I am just scratching all over myself.
 
No itch
 
@sehe is it subtracting because it is little endian?
 
There are 64 unique spells formed from combinations of runes
 
@khajvah It's substracting because SUB is the mnemonic that indicates the subtraction opcode...
 
64 doesn't sound like a lot if that's the only mechanic.
 
9:18 PM
@khajvah Stacks grow down, by convention. I'm sure it's in the first 2 paras on wikipedia
 
Various mechanics exist for manipulating the four resources: Heat, Polarity, Soul, and Form
 
hmph
should just go with strong/weak/EM/gravity
 
The point is that there would be multiple ways to respond in a situation
 
@sehe Ok, good, thanks, this was what I needed.
 
For example, say you have a Heat rune
 
9:19 PM
@khajvah Next time, consider asking stuff reading wikipedia
 
It can either increase your Heat or decrease it and also have other side effects
 
if there's only 64 situations then you could easily create a program that would determine the optimal action for each.
 
@Puppy There are 64^2
and there are states for you, your opponent, and your environment
 
@sehe Please, don't do that on me. Most questions you answer can be read from somewhere.
 
that's not very much at all.
 
9:20 PM
@wilx if you want some distraction, you can read the lastest XKCD what-if what-if.xkcd.com/136
> Note: This is a spider-heavy article. I can be a little anxious about spiders myself, so my research for this article involved a lot of opening PDFs while squinting and leaning back from the screen. If you're a serious arachnophobe, you might want to skip this one.
 
Additionally, by using the correct runes, you could also summon sub-spells to do automated attacks
 
@khajvah So?
You were only /just/ reading up on stacks. This is too simple. It just shows you disassembled before reading the basics.
 
i.e. Soul-Form-Soul would create a new sub-spell to activate on activation
Soul-Form-Form would create a sub-spell to activate on damage
Soul-Form-Heat would create a sub-spell to activate based on Spell use
 
I made this mistake. When I was 7. I printed the disassembly of DEBUG.COM. Thinking I'd learn how to do assembly.
 
Soul-Form-Polarity would destabilize subspell runes
Soul-X-Y would place a Y rune into a sub-spell stack of the type summoned with type X
And that's just the Soul-Form sub-system
 
9:24 PM
@sehe I wanted to understand how arrays are allocated in the stack and it took one sentence from you to make that clear for me. Anyways, thanks for you help.
 
Cheers :)
Still, learn to fish. Thank me later
 
@Puppy what do you think?
 
Magicka did it
 
@CatPlusPlus Never really heard of that
I'll write a text-based version first, then
 
@sehe Heh. Thanks. Spiders do nothing to me in this respect.
 
9:26 PM
@khajvah Clarifying my response: you skipped the essentials. Don't think you can learn how to build a compiler from reading emitted code. Don't think you can learn to type fast from listening to the line noise on your USB cable. Don't think you can be a concert violinist by playing youtube videos of Menuhin while you sleep :)
You always do the basics first.
 
Additionally, the system would make sure that it can allow for different playstyles
Additionally, the one-tier and two-tier spells would be valid, so...
4 + 16 + 64 spells = 84 spells
Also, turns you skip also have meaning
 
@sehe I got what you meant. Thank you. I will "fish" first :)
 
@Cinch When you start talking about sub-spell stacks, I'm starting to feel like you're asking me to program against the Lua API.
 
@Puppy Well let's put it this way:
There's a spell called Cold Fusion which depends on making your Heat limit less than 0.
Sub-spells would allow you to gather heat from all the sources
And then, once you absorb the heat, execute Cold Fusion
 
that definitely sounds like a program.
 
9:35 PM
Cold Fusion averages the values of the Heat between you, the environment, and your opponent
And amplifies negative heat
If you bring your opponent below 0, you do damage
Weakness--Polarity (electricity) does more with less heat
Since you can weave only two runes a turn, you can also queue up more spells to use
 
that is not at all what actual fusion does.
 
@Puppy Of course not
But Cold + Fusion => Fusion of all the heat, favoring cold
So more of a name rather than a reactor
 
if you call it "fusion", people are gonna expect something at least vaguely resembling fusion.
high heat, explosions, that sort of thing.
 
Welp
I'll call it Release: Cold for now
 
you're talking about a phrase with a specific existing semantic connotation.
 
user1804599
9:45 PM
Multiplication table in APL: (⍳10) ∘.× ⍳10.
 
user1804599
Absolutely fascinating.
 
> | [[Lemur]] || infant || {{Dunno}}<!-- Do not replace with princess --> || {{Dunno}}<!-- Do not replace with dictator -->
 
user1804599
How did you find that?
 

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