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4:01 PM
bah, disgruntled developers! heh
 
@webarto it's more like a case of "I despise one of the project managers here"
 
@tereško Was he the one who hit you with their car? ;-)
 
jeez stop replying on questions that's already answered for a damn week getting sick and tired of it
 
?
 
@rdlowrey Yeh I dunno, I figured I'd deal with bcast first and then I will probably have a clearer idea
 
4:03 PM
Jack I appericiate your reply and info I really do so it's not mentioned to you but a question which is answered is answered and don't need any more input such as "you should follow blablabla"
 
@ircmaxell he's got a pretty horrible attitude on him there ... I think maybe someone just graduated ...
 
yup
 
so it's not mentioned to you @jack
 
user895378
lol @ "I think maybe someone just graduated" ... so true
 
@MikeM. Well, you could always delete the question, no?
 
4:05 PM
So, I wonder what happened to Codebabes LOL
 
no I can't it asks me to flag it to mods
 
user895378
I understand why people want scalar typehinting, but it serves exactly zero purpose in my code.
 
user895378
The self-documenting code aspect is the only real benefit (for me).
 
but yet I get spammed the shit out.
 
Calling a static method on an instance produces no errors of any kind? Is that right?
 
4:06 PM
the people who does it knows it else they are retarded as hell
 
@Gordon oh, that one. I hated all of symfony when I was working with it
I wrote my custom resolvers in the end
 
Also 3v4l seems to be broken
 
and custom type
at the end, the form component was not doing anything on its own :D
 
@DaveRandom NOOOOOOOoOooooOOOOOOOOO.gif
 
Congratz to any german user in here for their WC team to win!
 
4:07 PM
3v4l is broken? did i forget to donate more money? lol
 
we tread a fine line here, we go too far and we change the nature of php, nobody really wants that, if they did want it, we would have no users of php today ... it has to happen this way, what we learned about type systems from other languages, or our tutor (who never really writes code anyone cares about) isn't necessarily applicable here, it wouldn't make sense for this to be anywhere but php, but it does make sense here ...
 
user895378
Actually ... I just thought of the best possible side-effect of scalar typehints ...
 
user895378
So, if scalar typehints make it into #php does that mean people will stop writing all these god-awful, time-wasting, rote, lying docblocks?
 
i have another question
 
@rdlowrey probably
 
4:10 PM
why php reflection allows to modify properties but no closures?
 
closures dont have properties
 
i mean to replace methods
 
you can change any property of a reflected class, but you cannot change any method
 
@JoeWatkins and @NikiC and @bwoebi comments? gist.github.com/ircmaxell/7a94d7e3da979dadf5cc
 
4:12 PM
because it doesn't make sense the vast majority of the time ... there's only one place it makes sense, and that's during testing ... so use uopz ... while testing ;)
 
great, but is a pecl package, is not from source
 
how wonderfull people talking about how I create my salt without knowing how it's created - #amazing_PHP_Section_Fuckers -.-
 
wow. hashtagging, really? :P
 
Ye problems with it?
if so don't read it
 
user895378
uopz: right for testing! uopz: right for America!
 
4:13 PM
hehe
 
@JoeWatkins did you created uopz?
 
@markcial that's not a real problem
@MikeM. yes
 
@JoeWatkins good to see you back :D
 
any problem is not a real problem
 
@rdlowrey i'll still have docblock for "array of <type>" and return type hints :D
 
user895378
4:14 PM
ye gods.
 
i could work coding with brainfuck
and it wouldnt be a problem
only a time wasting an tedious work
 
user895378
Actually I don't have a problem with @return. That's sensible on public API methods.
 
@ircmaxell Unless I misunderstood the current RFC, the PHP_INT_MAX+1 example is moot
 
anyways i ahve to say
 
SRC_DIR="`pwd`"
cd "`dirname "$0"`"
cd "../doctrine/orm/bin"
BIN_TARGET="`pwd`/doctrine"
cd "$SRC_DIR"
"$BIN_TARGET" "$@"
 
4:15 PM
> The edges are where things get odd. "12abc" is currently accepted by zpp int types, but raises a notice. That was why the RFC initially included it as a notice. But I agree with the move to making it an outright error.
 
kudos for named parameters, zipping arguments and multiple returns in php 5.6
 
so do I, if zpp is to raise an error for the same condition ...
 
@Ocramius please help
 
@NikiC it is moot
 
when do you actually use @ $var = //Something_Here;
 
4:16 PM
@JoeWatkins I mention that later
 
@ircmaxell and it being moot is an issue, I think
 
@MikeM. literally never
 
yeah, I realize that, do you know of any other examples that work work well there to illustrate the point?
 
Ye I was like the @ is only there to always pass even if there is an error right
 
just got that far ...
 
4:17 PM
@MikeM. no. It doesn't make the code work, it just silences the error
 
@ircmaxell My point right now is just that maybe instead of int/float we'd rather have numeric
 
It does not affect the outcome in any way
 
@iroegbu use git bash.
 
ye that's what I mean it just doesn't show anything and passes it...
 
@NikiC would both suffice? because sometimes you really do want an integer...
 
4:18 PM
I got nothing to add there, it looks well explained to me
 
normally it would error out yet with the @ it just passes (/go on) without showing anything
 
(And numeric would actually make it quite clear that it's a loose type ^^)
 
feels too long to me, I'm currently trying to cut it down a bit
 
@Ocramius still the same...
 
haha @JoeWatkins almost 11k :D
 
4:19 PM
I found it out<script type="text/javascript">var color = "<?= $color ?>";</script>
 
@NikiC Yeah, ext/ereg has some really old C stuff. Doesn't even look like C.
 
user1596138
Maybe you guys can help this guy
 
@NikiC IMHO, strict hints are dangerous in the context of PHP because PHP's types can change in unpredictable ways. A variable that was an integer can turn into a float through seemingly integer operations. Example: $a / $b * $b will result in a float unless $b divides $a (even though for sane values of $a and $b, it will be exactly representable as an int).
 
@MikeM. :)
 
that work instead?
 
4:21 PM
@ircmaxell yeah
 
@iroegbu what command are you running?
 
@JoeWatkins Party at your new house? [#Joe-s_House_Parteh]
 
./vendor/bin/doctrine
 
php vendor/bin/doctrine orm:generate-entities --help
I'm trying to setup
 
@Jack no, he;s the one who never puts any safety margins on any estimates. Instead, he simply forwards developers 3-month-spanning "estimates" directly to the clients and boss
 
4:23 PM
@NikiC anything else you would add or remove from that mail? I've tossed a quick note about a numeric hint
 
and then act's shocked when those estimates are off by 2 month
 
I've been following the scalar type hints discussion but to be honest I want full on strict hints.
I realize most people don't want that.
So I've been silent.
As long as what we get isn't completely off-base then I'll be okay.
 
@LeviMorrison I definitely don't want them
 
If I do a SELECT * (just testing against DB manually) is there a way to force the column names (in a joined query) to be prefixed with their respective table names?
 
because that would literally result in everyone using foo((int) $bar), even if $bar is an integer, because it may change to not being an integer through integer operations...
 
4:24 PM
@Ocramius ok, I omitted the "php". Seems ok now.
 
@LeviMorrison That's my way of thinking as well. I'd prefer strict hints but I will take anything that's not totally stupid (like what Zeev suggests)
@ircmaxell eh
 
@DanLugg how do you mean? like {tablename}_{columname}
 
I learned today that clicking on the little icon next to a method name in an interface will show you the concrete implementations. I never knew that. How awesome!!
 
@SecondRikudo your evaluation of the currently outstanding flag? n/m
 
@Gordon congratz with yesterday^^
 
4:26 PM
thanks
 
@MikeM. I would think dot (.) delimited would be more natural, but whatever.
 
@DaveRandom Burn in the fiery pits of hell.
 
@tereško what a nincompoop!
 
user1804599
@NikiC In order to be consistent with inconsistency, I suggest we do it strictly only with string and float, and implicitly convert with other types.
 
@Gordon SCHLAND
 
4:26 PM
@Gordon I found that out not terribly long ago too; NetBeans has the same feature :-)
 
@DanLugg Ye I just used {tablename}_{columname} as example you want it won't work tho; xD
 
@SecondRikudo Yeh I google translated it, I thought it was hebrew (hence I asked you) but apparently not
 
@DaveRandom עברית
 
@AlmaDo ^^ SQL?
 
What he posted was arabic :P
 
4:28 PM
@Gordon you're raving about the storm are you? :)
 
@Jack yes, but the guy who told me said its available in all the IDEs
 
\o/
 
@Gordon What OS are you on?
 
@SecondRikudo ubuntu 14.04
 
In order to be consistent with PHP's inconsistency, we've decided to randomly decide what to do based on a fair random generator. Your code may work, or it may not, but that's the PHP way, so :-)
 
4:29 PM
 
@Gordon yeah .. well .. it's cool nonetheless :D
 
@Gordon Then the default keymap wouldn't work :( But you can look for it in the menu (I think in navigation)
 
@SecondRikudo Honestly it all just looks like funny little squiggles to me :-\
 
@MikeM. Yea, I'm reading that already; that's a shit deal.
 
if you want to do the things you wanted you would have to manually name it.
so good luck naming each table - column xD
 
4:29 PM
Place the caret on any definition, and click "find usages", watch the magic.
 
@SecondRikudo yes, a couple of things dont work
 
@MikeM. Yea, that's what I'm trying to avoid. Thanks.
 
@NikiC Maybe if I get enough time into it I'll work on updating ereg to a C/C++ compatible codebase.
I realize people may not want such a change but I want to play around with C++ constructs to see which ones can give performance benefits.
 
not gona happen
 
I suspect compiler-driven reference counting would be faster than what we have.
 
4:31 PM
@iroegbu php shouldn't be needed, but windows is windowns
2
 
it's either sticking with the normal naming or just taking out the needed tables & columns and name it manually xD
 
And I'm not sure how much the move semantics will help but they might.
Move semantics are the first C++ feature that really give you a chance to beat out C performance.
 
@MikeM. Why do you keep appending xD to everything?
 
@DanLugg feel it burn !!! xD
 
@LeviMorrison don't waste your time
 
4:32 PM
@Ocramius ok, it's working fine. I was following instructions in docs
 
instead work on removing ereg
it was already decided a number of times that ereg will be removed, but nobody ever got around to dropping the last internal references ^^
 
@iroegbu can you link me to which step wasn't working?
 
@NikiC Really?
 
@LeviMorrison yes
 
I thought I'd have to do some politics stuff to remove it.
 
4:33 PM
@Jack yeah , and faced with this 2 month error, he keeps insisting that "we should all take full responsibility about our work"
 
ereg is like the most deprecated exception of all time ;)
 
fucktard
 
Man. This project is Organization Hell xD
 
@NikiC but it's still there :-P
 
@ircmaxell which is why I'm suggesting that @LeviMorrison remove it :P
 
4:34 PM
:-D
\o/ to removing ereg!!!
 
I figured we were using it internally on purpose because it was simpler than PCRE or something.
 
user895378
@ircmaxell The new E_CAST constant value should equal 4 to represent the random dice roll used to determine the casted result.
 
@rdlowrey yup :-)
 
@Ocramius here I assumed I had to include php to the command like for running a php script.
 
@tereško man, this sounds exactly like the kind of lead my friend had ... before he left that godforsaken company :)
@NikiC Grats on your RFC .. it was a close one ;-)
 
4:40 PM
@iroegbu and it's only ./vendor/bin/doctrine?
 
the phpdbg thread on phpstorm is funny; you see +1's until a few negative comments are made and then you see -1, -1 ... lol
 
user895378
PHP Warning:  date(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function.
 
@rdlowrey \o/ Thanks, Derick.
 
@rdlowrey I like it how it's turned into an exception when you use it with new DateTime() :)
 
Uniform variable syntax (PHP 6) has been accepted :) https://wiki.php.net/rfc/uniform_variable_syntax
\o\
 
4:41 PM
/o/
 
So you would see the message "don't worry, we have set the timezone to UTC for you" and then ... Fatal: Uncaught Exception ... hur hur
 
user895378
Hey! Ho!
 
user895378
\o\
 
\o/
 
4:42 PM
@iroegbu ah, I see what is going on
 
@LeviMorrison Speaking of Derick, I still really really wanna know why he voted no. Specifically, because he's still the only no.
 
@DanLugg Something about new incompatibilities introduced in this patch.
 
@LeviMorrison Ref?
 
He said something on list about it.
 
@DanLugg Too lazy to change it.
 
4:43 PM
Oh okay, I'mma look
 
Unless he really feels that this minor BC break is just too much for a major release
 
@Ocramius is there something I'm doing wrong?
 
> Now, I realize this is a tiny BC break, but it is just *those* that
drive people nuts when upgrading.
 
@Jack Just read that; but he doesn't ref anything, unless he's referring to what's already mentioned in RFC.
 
The BC break is mentioned in the RFC.
As for whether his idea of what drives people nuts is representative, not sure.
 
4:46 PM
@iroegbu nah
 
@Jack Yes ... sadly Derick ruined the nice unanimous vote :(
 
@iroegbu seems like a change in composer to compatibilize with windows
 
@DanLugg what?
 
ok, thanks
 
22 mins ago, by Dan Lugg
If I do a SELECT * (just testing against DB manually) is there a way to force the column names (in a joined query) to be prefixed with their respective table names?
 
4:47 PM
@NikiC Tiny BC break objection... coming from the guy who does whatever he wants with DateTime.
Let's give a warning now!
Let's make an Immutable DateTime and not really get input!
And so on.
 
@NikiC Just add #doodle__form__implement_uniform_variable_syntax_in_php_6 > table > tbody > tr:nth-child(9) { display: none; } to a user stylesheet.
 
Yep, it's his little island.
 
All better!
 
@NikiC Dammit Derick!
 
@DanLugg what is "the joined query" ?
 
4:52 PM
@DanLugg It is already prefixed by default...
 
@SecondRikudo Not in my output....
@AlmaDo Just a typical simple inner joined query
SELECT * FROM `a`
INNER JOIN `b` ON `a`.`x` = `b`.`x`
INNER JOIN `c` ON `b`.`y` = `c`.`y`
 
@DanLugg I don't understand what you want then.
 
@DanLugg I guess your trouble is: you have same fields in two tables and you want to select them then with prefixes so DB driver won't confuse them?
 
@AlmaDo Sort of, I'm just spot checking stuff manually
So, more of a human error, rather than computational.
 
SELECT a.x, b.y, c.z FROM a
INNER JOIN `b` ON `a`.`x` = `b`.`x`
INNER JOIN `c` ON `b`.`y` = `c`.`y`
 
4:54 PM
@DanLugg and that should be a_field1, a_field2, .. a_fieldN, b_field1, b_field2, .. b_fieldM in result?
 
@SecondRikudo Right, but I'm just doing a * dump to look with my eyes.
@AlmaDo Essentially yes; or . delimited.
 
Am I the only one who thinks this is a DUMB idea: http://3v4l.org/VX5bt ?
 
is there some PHP class for reading files (I really would like to not use fopen() thing) Iwas looking for SPLFileObject
 
So wouldn't the column names appear like table.column anyway?
 
@DanLugg no chance with . since it's a reserved delimiter for schema/table/column
 
4:56 PM
Also try SELECT a.*, b.*, c.*
 
@AlmaDo Well, I can SELECT `a`.`x` AS `a.x` no problem.
 
@SecondRikudo this will work, yes, but won't result in prefixed column names
 
^^ Right; I've tried a few variants; the only "solution" I've seen is the goofy one that @MikeM. referred to ^^^ up there; it involves injecting dummy columns to horizontally delimit the tables from one another.
 
user895378
@Leri I just pushed up a simple alert TCP server example
 
8
Q: In a join, how to prefix all column names with the table it came from

Jarrod SmithI'm analysing a rather horrible legacy database/codebase, trying to reduce server load by combining queries into joins (including an email alert cron job that typically invokes well over a million separate queries). SELECT * FROM class_alerts_holding ah INNER JOIN class_listings l ON l.id = ah...

@ircmaxell What would you expect to happen?
 
4:58 PM
@SecondRikudo Yea, that's basically what I'm looking at right now.
However, that still involves targeting each table by name with SELECT a.*, b.* etc.
I was hoping for an easy catch-all SELECT * FROM ... resulting in prefixed columns, but it's not looking do-able.
 
I still want to remove PHP references.
 
@DanLugg no "native" solution for that since DB can't know what aliases do you want. Either use some delimiter between different table fields or I know dirty way with prepared statements
 
@ircmaxell Fun twist: You used weird quotes and it worked due to the const->string awfulness
 
Just going to say that every month and hope that over time more people align with me on that.
 
@AlmaDo Yea, I think I saw an SO answer regarding that...
I'll just use the delimiter column.
 
user895378
4:59 PM
What is the actual name for those "weird quotes" ?
 
Thanks @AlmaDo + @SecondRikudo :-)
@rdlowrey "fancy"?
 
@NikiC works the same with normal quotes though.
 
"directional"?
 
@NikiC I realized that, I was looking at it going "wait, that shouldn't have worked"
 
@Jack yeah, sure. This was an additional jab at "suppressing errors is totally stupid"
 
5:00 PM
Also, I'm seeing "smart" quotes.
 
@NikiC Oh okay, I get what you mean now .. haha, fun stuff
 
user895378
@DanLugg ♫ I'm so weird quotes ♫ ... just doesn't have the same ring to it.
 
@rdlowrey lol
 
Ah, so the scalar typehints thread has finally reached 100 mails
Wonder it took so long
 
hurray, such excitement, wow
 
5:03 PM
@NikiC it needed me to push it there :-P
 
@ircmaxell By the way, integer division in a language like PHP is rather silly.
It's one of the things PHP got right from the beginning.
 
yeah
which is why I'm arguing that PHP's type system in concept isn't horrible, it fills an interesting need. The edges need a ton of work
but saying "12" can be used where integers are expected is actually incredibly powerful
 
Due to the error on the RFC page, I have made this patch, please paste it into your user stylesheet.
 
@ircmaxell I'm okay with that. Would still prefer an error.
 
I've given up trying to get PHP to behave like a formal type system. All I care about now is consistency in how those types move around and change
@ircmaxell Catchable fatals on non existing classes? (As long as PHP doesn't handle method-call-on-non-object sensibly it doesn't matter.)
 
5:11 PM
Yeah, particularly the string -> int conversions.
We have some really odd situations.
 
@LeviMorrison and I think it may be a good idea to take the time with 6 to try to clean some of them up
 
Definitely. I keep mentioning that too on IRC and in here.
But I'd like them cleaned up everywhere, just not on function type-hint boundaries.
 
Ahhh, unicode: 3v4l.org/P3IFR
 
I want to see the death of a lot of aliases! KILL THEM!
Also: morning all
 
@PeeHaa I've been talking with Andrea about killing all of the type aliases
 
5:14 PM
<3
 
having a single canonical. So int instead of integer, int, long, etc
 
That would be a nice start indeed
 
@ircmaxell I really like how JS handles types
Number, String, Function, Array, Object
 
@SecondRikudo bahahahaha
 
@SecondRikudo eeeeeeeeeeew
 
5:15 PM
I awoke Benji!
 
i found a chat notification bug
 
JS types, lolol, god.
 
@SecondRikudo only .. well .. Array is kinda, sometimes, almost like an Object
 
@PeeHaa also get rid of sizeof()
 
@tereško Everything is kinda, sometimes, an Object :P
 
5:16 PM
@tereško Array is an object.
 
i got an alert 56 minutes ago, and can't find where it is
 
@SecondRikudo nope
 
@ircmaxell Those are on the top of my list
 
@SecondRikudo Array is crappy.
 
null, undefined, number string and boolean are not objects, some of the worst mistakes.
 
5:16 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum undefined?
 
@all
 
@ircmaxell undefined is a type in JavaScript, a primitive value type
 
scalar typehints are destroying ability to do intellectual work
 
where do you put errors on the system
 
gonna write some c code instead...
 
5:17 PM
@IGotRoot mostly - in the code
 
Well, I'm off. Talk to you people later.
 
@NikiC I'm trying to write some slides on why two other prioritization methods in slurm are bad without upsetting the authors. This is a nice distraction :D
 
@NikiC I have something I want to discuss with you, but I'm not sure how
 
5:18 PM
for stack overflow when i don't have the ability to see the code
 
as in, the only way I can think about describing the problem is with a whiteboard, but I can't think of how to do that remotely in a significant way
 
@ircmaxell twiddla.
 
@rdlowrey Nice, thank you. I just came home, will have a look in a few. If any question arises I'll ping you.
 
@ircmaxell What's the general topic?
 
@NikiC type inference via resolving multiple overlaid graphs
 
5:19 PM
This chat is not created for mobile. :-)
 
@stackoverflow I have a chat bug to report
 
mse?
k
 
Tag it and
 
> Well let’s look at the downsides… (apart from “OMG THAT’S A FUCKING STUPID IDEA!”) ... hahaha
 
5:21 PM
@ircmaxell yeah, that sounds hard to talk about with just words ^^
 
:-)
Well, at some point perhaps
I've been thinking about it for a while, and I can solve some of it, but some just feel really unsolvable
 
I'm not sure I'd be able to help with that anyways. Was never particularly strong with graph theory
 
@ircmaxell twiddla
 
you're better than me
But either way, at some point I'd like to loop you into this project, if for nothing else than some sanity checks on appraoch
 
@ircmaxell This is about the jit magic, right? :)
 
5:24 PM
yeah
 
@rdlowrey Hmm, looks really nice. I'll do some benchmarking on my own and probably will implement my action based architecture (I used in .net) in php.
 
@SecondRikudo Great, now I have marker stains on my monitor, thanks :)
 
That even kinda works @SecondRikudo
 
@ircmaxell What's scary is, that in absence of a current native solution, how attractive that looks despite being a non-performant kludge.
 
5:32 PM
@DanLugg it doesn't look atractive at all
 
Sure it does; it solves the problem. </facetious>
I think I share your stance: I just want something that works, mostly.
 
@ircmaxell @__edorian Come on, the fact that E_RECOVERABLE_ERROR allows extending the language is amazing! Error driven developement?
 
user895378
@Leri Cool, if you have questions just ask. My long talked about ultra-performant http/websocket server is written on top of those same libraries, so pretty much anything is possible.
 
5:53 PM
@ircmaxell um. Let me just ask one question... WHY?!
(with regard to ZPP)
 
@TobiasGies let me ask one question... why not?
 
I asked first!
 
@TobiasGies Because I need it in HHVM for verbatim compatibility :D
 
@TobiasGies no, that's really the answer: "why not"
 
mkay...
 
5:57 PM
not like I'm using it anywhere
it was more "just because I can do it, so let me bang it out"
and becasue things like this are fubar:
/**
 * Varargs with prefix AND suffix
 */
function varargsPrefixed() {
    ZPP::parseParameters("bs+b", [
        $bool1,
        $strings,
        $bool2,
    ]);
}
varargsPrefixed(true, "a", "b", false); // true, ["a", "b"], false
 

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