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5:00 PM
There is always that problem
 
Guys, my UML dependency line is not appearing on my diagram.
It can't be added
 
did you draw it? in EF edmx?
was out at the Girls new job, and the whole IT depart. is H1 - that was interesting to talk to them
 
Yes, I drew it. No, I am not using EF
 
What do you guys use in shop? anything we want...
 
Ah, good old UML
 
5:02 PM
Yes
 
Learned all the fancy UML stuff in college. Never used it after that.
 
I am finding it hard to add a dependency line.
 
umm so Microsoft or Java, Ruby - ya anything we want for that task..
 
That can be an issue, since one of the main aspects of UML is mapping dependency behavior.
 
Changing schools would probably be an issue. I don't have time for a Uni degree anymore (I'm already 29 - I'm not going to spend the next 4 or more years studying). The problem is, this country has had a major influx of shoddy colleges promising the world and not giving you anything at all. The course material is a disgrace; when you read it, you find yourself thinking, 'was this written by a 5 year old?' - and when you go to the teacher for help (in interpreting the nonsense in the material),
the teacher usually responds with, the material doesn't make sense. Everybody has this problem. It's not written very well. I have already changed colleges. The first one was just pathetic. The teacher could barely talk properly, and he was always wrong about things: He would say things like "HTML 5 and HTML was made by W3Schools.com" - he would also say "W3 Schools.com is the best resource for HTML". I lost all motivation to continue studying at that college when I heard him say that. I was
 
5:10 PM
Many books out there, good videos too, a few people in the chat room and with any luck you could be running code around that teacher (Ok Well in that case RUN - b/c ya can't fix stupid)
 
going to correct him after class, instead of infront of everyone. But I forgot. When I called the college to raise the issue, they simply became defensive and refused to listen. So I told her where she can go, and I dropped out and found a new college, which they claimed that it is self paced, and that you can finish as early as you are able to (which was good for me, because I need work - FAST) But soon after enrolling I realised everything they told us before we signed up was complete BS.
 
@NDEIGU we just hired a new grad. he's 36, or maybe it was 42?
 
The college has appeared on TV news and in the papers and all over the place online. They're also being investigated by the regulating bodies. These people are crooks.
 
@NETscape I was just hired, 34
 
@SE505 are you going to school in USA?
 
5:12 PM
@Netscape That makes me feel a little better. No, I'm going to college in Australia.
 
ahh gotcha. Do they have ITT Tech in AU?
 
What's ITT Tech?
 
okay, just checking to see if thats the college thats on the TV news there... that's one of the college in the media in USA
being sued for predatory loans
 
Oh, well my college is Evocca. And they're being investigated for the same thing I think (as well as many other things).
 
For-profit College was nasty Nasty places
 
5:14 PM
@Netscape Do you hire remote workers lol?
Awkward silence... I think that's a no :)
 
Remote is not really a Jr spot
 
Oh I see. Makes sense.
 
@SteveG - Making progress on your encryption education goals?
 
you can completely replace me if you want... i'll probably be a happier person if you did lol.
which goes to say, you probably won't be happy taking my spot :)
 
5:40 PM
@Jeremy no 6AM meeting
:)
 
I'm getting a bit confused with generics, any thoughts on the 2 snippets of code?

    public class SearchTasks<RequestType, ResponseType> : BusinessTransaction<RequestType, ResponseType>
        where RequestType : TaskQueryRequest
        where ResponseType : TaskQueryResponse
vs

public class SearchTasks: BusinessTransaction<TaskQueryRequest, TaskQueryResponse>
My dev wrote the top, which is what I told them to, but the architects are complaining it's reaking of C++ templating
 
you can have multiple implementation for "where" clause
 
@RyanTernier - It doesn't matter what the names are, they don't relay type. So the bottom one is actually not ensuring those types.
 
public class SearchTasks<RequestType, ResponseType> : BusinessTransaction<RequestType, ResponseType>
where RequestType : TaskQueryRequest, ISomeotherInterface
where ResponseType : TaskQueryResponse
 
However, using the type in both sides doesn't make much sense.
It is hard to tell without more context of how the type is being used.
Why would you classA<T,E> : classB<T,E> though?
 
5:45 PM
@RyanTernier Name it TRequestType, TResponseType if you are going o do that.
 
This is proper: Vector3[] vec = new Vector3[]{};?
 
It looks to me like there is going to be some sort of overengineering going on there.
 
TaskQueryRequest Inherits from RequestMessage which inherits from Message ( ResponseMessage works similar)

BusinessTransaction does everything based on RequestMessage/ResponseMEssage, but the derived classes require the specific type to be pushed in.
 
@KalaJ Vector3 does not have fixed length?
 
I want to initialize new empty array, then I can set vec equal to something
 
5:46 PM
I'd do ctor(x, y, z)
 
@KalaJ - That will make an empty array of that type.
 
I did something like this: Vector3[] vec = CalculateExtendedPoints(g.guidePoint1,g.guidePoint2);
 
oh, derp I read it wrong
 
but I think I am getting exception because of this because it says object not set to instance of an onejct
 
@KalaJ - It would be best to just use
Vector3[] vec;
though imo
 
5:47 PM
nvm
 
ah ok
 
^
 
Does above make sense as to why I was getting that exception in the first place?
 
Vector3[] vec = new Vector3[0]; is an alternative, should probably be vecs
 
Just watch out for null if you use the a[] a; syntax
 
5:48 PM
I will use this: Vector3[] vec;
 
yeah, but if later on you don't assign to it and try to pass it somewhere or use it you will get an exception, so just keep that in mind too :)
 
is the exception object not set to instance of an object?
I am getting three of those in my logs
and it tells me the method but I'm not sure which part. I am assuming it's because of my array right?
 
Yes, that would cause that exception.
 
Also is this proper:
float ImgWidth = 0;
ImgWidth = gameObject.GetComponent<LoadXrayImage>().GetImageWidth();
vs float ImgWidth = gameObject.GetComponent<LoadXrayImage>().GetImageWidth();
Would that have caused it too?
 
@KalaJ - Either that or "use of unassigned variable"
@KalaJ - Uhm, that looks like gameObject hasn't been initiated
If it were causing the error
 
5:52 PM
hmm :( too many exceptions ahhh
Is it generally bad practice to just set my variables first without declaring them?
*initializing/declaring them?
like is int x = 3; bad in comparison to int x; x =3;?
or rather int x =0; x =3?
 
if the initial value was never used, then it's better to just declare but not set.
resharper can be really helpful in those cases
 
@KalaJ - Set breakpoints.
Inspect all the things!
 
I can't :( These exceptions are in Unity
I'm just logging them right now
They're kind of hard to debug :/
 
i thought unity should allow line by line debug
 
@Pheonixblade9 almost done?
 
6:09 PM
needs more music
 
plays some music
 
!!play some music
 
@tweray That didn't make much sense. Use the !!/help command to learn more.
 
Galapagos volcano erupts, threatening species where Darwin studied - let's see how they adapt now.
 
If we all ran the same userscript, then we could have a room based playlist somewhere that we all heard at the same time.
I wonder if it would be feasible to hold a conference that we organized.
 
6:12 PM
im in as long as theres free beer
 
It would require some money from everyone in order to pay for speakers and some conference space.
 
That would have been awesome.
 
SO has no plan to revive the conference though?
 
A bit expensive perhaps
 
I am not sure if they still do that. I know they did an annual one for a few years.
The last one was a few years ago that I know of.
 
6:15 PM
last one should be on 2011 or 2012 something
 
But I don't think they had technical speakers.
 
they can just post on meta, and they will get 10+ pages of ppl volunteers i guess
 
Why does System.Random.Next() always return 0 the first time it is called?
 
because you are casting it to int?
 
I am not casting anything
 
6:16 PM
hm
Can I see an example of your usage for it?
 
@MoonOwlPrince It doesn't/shouldn't...
 
System.Random.Next() returns a 32 bit integer
 
^^
 
I can whip up a quick test
 
Let me paste my usage
secretNumber = random.Next(upperLimit + 1);
 
6:17 PM
What are you seeding it with?
 
I didn't seed it with anything
 
is upperLimit maxInt?
 
if your upperlimit = 0, then it will be forever 0
 
upperLimit is entered by the user and is always > 10
 
            Random rand = new Random();
            int firstRandom = rand.Next();
            int secondRandom = rand.Next();

            Console.WriteLine(firstRandom);
            Console.WriteLine(secondRandom);
            Console.ReadLine();
Test code, neither int is 0
 
6:19 PM
can you paste the code where you init random
 
WTB zeros!
 
Ran it a couple times to be sure
 
0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O
 
It is now working
This was weird
 
6:21 PM
lol, super c# chat pressures your code to work right
 
blasphemy, only Jon Skeet can do that
 
Reed is in the room.
Reed has more chat rep than Skeet.
 
Epic C# battle of history. REED vs SKEET! BEGIN
no?
 
hahaha
nah
 
Depends what the weapons are
pen? keyboard? staff? sword?
 
6:33 PM
Hi gang
 
i prefer super street fighter 4, i can beat you all lol
 
SF is the real deal
i remember playing SF EX2
amazing combos
I am trying to check if there is a newer version of a js file hosted remotely , so i can update my local version
not sure how to start this
@CharlieBrown Lord of the board
 
@Alundrathedreamwalker check the last modified response header
 
interesting.
Lemme dig
 
or if you don't do that so frequently, just hash the whole js and compare
 
6:40 PM
daily check
response header looks like a good solution
?
 
Is there a way to find & replace stuff in proj files from within VS?
Without unload > open
 
then i would say hash might be better, modified date not always trustworthy
 
I need to clean up after nuget messes up so often.
 
right click, open with notepad++ ;p
 
@tweray what about comparing LastModified and ContentLength?
 
6:42 PM
When I copy the value of a reference variable to another what gets copied the reference or C# has a feature that I might be unaware of.
 
@Alundrathedreamwalker well, that covers 99.99% of the case i believe
 
Define "Copy the value"
ie show the code
 
when you say copy, do you mean clone?
 
i mean replace
 
@JohanLarsson Use Paket instead :p
issue solved
 
6:46 PM
do you use it for all things?
 
still show the code
 
I have only tried it
 
@JohanLarsson I've started moving things over to it
 
I don't love command line stuff though.
 
esp. larger solutions - the build speed improvements are so nice it's tough to not want to do that
just put it in as a build rule, and you don't need to use command line for anything
 
6:47 PM
hmm, how does it affect build speed?
 
ProjectScaffold is setup so that works
 
Does it, you know, actually restore packages?
Because nuget is a **** when it comes to that
 
Nuget is slow to run - so anytime it tries to recheck packages it's super slow
 
I never restore btw, I commit packages to version control.
 
Steffan's showed some large solutions - takes like 3+ minutes for nuget to do the package restores, and Paket is like 2 seconds ;)
ack, why?!
 
6:48 PM
DEVIL!
 
that kind of defeats the purpose of nuget altogether
that's kind of the entire point of using a tool like nuget - it lets you avoid that
 
otherwise, just add the refs yourself and keep the packages in a sane location
 
Nuget lest me be explicit about when I update stuff and i can see updates.
Also nowai to get the build server to work with restore behind company proxy.
At least nothing I event want to try to get working.
I fail to see any huge downside really, disk is ~free.
@TomW me?
For stuff on github I add packages/* to gitignore though
 
Let me be more precise: When I assign reference variable a the value of reference variable b. Is the what is referenced by b stored in a or the value of b is stored in a
 
6:52 PM
@JohanLarsson Again, you should consider paket - at least the way it'll store your packages will be sane, then, so you would have revision history
@MoonOwlPrince You're making an assignment via a copy of the reference - so a and b will both "point at" the object originally referenced by b
 
Ok. Thanks
Just had to be sure before making a certain decision
 
nice thing with paket is that it stores the packages in the same folder and only updates the lock file or what it is called.
Should eliminate most of the update bugs
But imo I have perfect revision history as it is, packages.config & package.1.2.3.4 folder
 
@JohanLarsson only if you keep all of the old packages around forever, and then you don't know which are being used at any point in time
 
I delete the old folder when updating
I consider paket of curse.
 
yeah, but that's what I meant - once you delete the old folder, that DLL no longer has a revision history
which means you're losing the ability to track it ;) Paket would solve that - if you really want to commit your dependencies, at least then they'd have proper history
then again, being able to have restorable/updateable references to github files is pretty slick, too ;)
 
7:04 PM
do you use the per file thing much?
I can see use cases but I can also see pain & confusion
 
it's got some really useful use cases
but haven't used it a ton
it's great for certain types of projects, though
in F#, it's really nice for working with type providers, since the type provider functionality is provided as source code files you include in your project - so it lets you hadnle them and update as needed cleanly
for C#, I haven't seen it used much - though, to be fair, it has the potential to provide even more useful functionality, since you could potentially provide partial classes to create mixin style functionality if you wanted to do so
I can envision some pretty slick use cases for it in C#
 
Not used it; does it have a suitably abstract notion of a dependency that you could define pretty much anything as one?
Database dependency? Restoring it creates and populates a new database?
Application pools?
 
@TomW I don't think so - it has a few notions of what comprises a dependency, but I think they always refer to files
internally, not sure, though
@JohanLarsson BTW - You can use it and avoid command line via github.com/fsprojects/Paket.VisualStudio
@TomW I think, IIRC, it only supports "sources" of nuget, local nuget, git, and http
but from what I understand, it'd probably be easy to extend if you wanted to add support for other source types
 
Well that's interesting to me.
Care would be required to avoid turning it into one of any number of anti-patterns. Probably a gas factory
 
yeah - Paket is pretty clean/simple - which is a huge part of its appeal
not sure that "generic notion of dependency" would fit with how the lock files work, either
since one of the underlying goals was to make it easy to see and manage all of the dependencies, including indirect ones
which is something nuget sucks at doing
 
7:17 PM
In practice, Nuget works well though
 
@CharlieBrown Depends - I have had huge problems with it
and lots of other people do, too ;)
 
The use cases I hear about are usually out on the edge, and much less common
I agree that the speed can suck in larger projects
 
@Jeremy no, i had a car thing this morning.
 
@CharlieBrown I almost always have huge problems with package restore when someone else tries to checkout the project
 
The packages file is versionable, no need to check in packages (unless your build server cant pull down)
@BradleyDotNET Thats more of a tool problem isnt it?
 
7:20 PM
Um... yeah. Its a problem with nuget
 
Sorry, I meant with the UI vs using the commands
I've had problems with the restore as well, usually bugs in VS that are known. Does get annoying
 
7:34 PM
vs tabs needs to be more like chrome tabs
that is all.
 
7:45 PM
hey
I've tried following the tutorial, but the LoginButton they provide doesn't have an ApplicationId property
 
7:59 PM
Or have any alternatives of Facebook "Publishing to Feed" on the Windows Universal platform?
 
@BrianJ - Isn't the application ID supplied by you? I think you have to go to the Facebook API and register your app.
 
@ReedCopsey starthanks
 
@SpencerRuport I have the AppId already, but in the tutorial, they say to set the LoginButton's AppID property. problem is when I've added their LoginButton control, there is no AppID property attached to that control.
 
Ohhh I misunderstood
My bad.
 
Why can't I change the Background property of a ComboBox from the system default by using XAML
        <ComboBox Background="WhiteSmoke" BorderBrush="#FF99BACE" Canvas.Left="82" Canvas.Top="69" Height="37" Name="modeSelectionComboBox" Width="69" FontFamily="Arial Rounded MT" FontSize="22" VerticalContentAlignment="Center" HorizontalContentAlignment="Center" OpacityMask="{x:Null}" Text="LiS">
            <ComboBoxItem Content="LiS" IsSelected="True" Background="WhiteSmoke" BorderBrush="#FF99BACE" />
            <ComboBoxItem Content="BiS" Background="WhiteSmoke" BorderBrush="#FF99BACE" />
 
8:02 PM
@SpencerRuport no prob, spent most of the day trying to come up with a work around, I've just came across this: code.msdn.microsoft.com/windowsapps/…
not sure yet if I can publish to the profile using this though
 
The system defaults are persisting
 
Does slaughterhouse 5 live up to the hype?
I'm debating getting it on audiobook
Actually nevermind. It's only 5 hours and it costs $12.
Whenever I see this in a job description
> Ability to be flexible and work well with changing priorities.
My first thought is "We don't have a plan."
 
8:23 PM
@SpencerRuport It's very good, but I like some of his other work more
 
@ReedCopsey - Which would you recommend? I've only read/listened to a little bit of his stuff.
 
I'd personally read his stuff over listening to it (unless you have a real reason to avoid that)
Cat's Cradle is probably my favorite, though
Galapagos is pretty good, too
 
+1 Cat's Cradle. I liked Breakfast of Champions, too.
 
Bluebeard might also be good on audio -
 
@ReedCopsey - Yeah I've just never liked reading. I love audio books though.
 
8:26 PM
Cat's Cradle is probably my favorite, though - I'd just be worried that the narration would have a huge impact on the tone
and not sure that it'd have the same impact - would depend on how well it was read
 
@ReedCopsey - Well I just finished Pastwatch and I thought it was really well read.
I got choked up in a couple places haha.
 
well, Vonnegut tends to write in very short chapters, with a very unique "tone" to them
so the narration could have a huge impact on how the subject matter comes across
if it was done well, it'd be good - but done poorly, you'd lose a lot of the uniqueness
 
I see.
Well I've been meaning to read cat's cradle so I'll get that. Thanks :)
 
8:42 PM
@SpencerRuport Exactly right
 
@Jeremy Omg this was completely rage inducing haha.
 
When jsHint says a file has 50 errors... I'm tempted to just start over.
 
8:58 PM
Oh man
I never realized the deeper meaning of that dilbert comic.
All those companies with NDAs. "muh seecrets!"
Meanwhile we're like... "Uh... you just manipulated data a simple way."
 
9:20 PM
@CharlieBrown - Do you have experience with Complex Analysis? I have a friend who's struggling with it and I was curious if you could recommend some resources that might help.
 
I do not :(
 
Okay thanks anyway. :)
@ReedCopsey - Do you have any recommendations for someone struggling with Complex Analysis?
 
@SpencerRuport I may have a vague idea
Probably not, but worth a go.
 
@TomW - I'll post some of the homework problems he's looking at.
 
complex analysis is aptly named
 
9:24 PM
Right?
 
Hell no. I don't even recognise the notation
I guess CNF is Continuous Normal Form?
 
I have no idea.
 
@TomW conjunctive
 
^ this guy can probably help
 
He's an American studying in Austria. Smart guy in my opinion, not sure what's causing him to struggle.
@Jeremy - Do you have some knowledge about this stuff?
 
9:26 PM
@SpencerRuport Um, is it complex analysis or complexity theory? I can help with both, but they're very different.
 
Late undergrad stuff I guess?
 
@TomW - It's a graduate program. He finished his CS degree.
@Jeremy - It might be complexity theory.
> Komplexit¨atsanalyse (Complexity Analysis)
 
That topic usually isn't covered in undergrad
 
Yeah, way beyond me. Complex analysis I might have stood a chance
 
@Jeremy - I can forward you the assignment if you want to take a look. Even if you can point me in a direction that might have some supplemental resources.
 
9:28 PM
I can help some with complexity theory.
Sure.
 
lol the definition is amusing
in that it is confusing
A logical formula consisting of a conjunction of disjunctions of terms where no disjunction contains a conjunction.
 
@Jeremy - You can send me an email at spam_me_1@netortech.com and I'll respond with a real email address.
 
It is basically obfuscated discrete math.
 
Math is just objects and relationships between objects
Complexity theory makes the objects discrete structures that CS people care about
 
Pip
in Game Development on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 2 days ago, by William 'MindWorX' Mariager
C# MASTER RACE
 
9:32 PM
What does "tractable" mean in that context?
 
Hey all. Hope this is an easy one. I open a file in a Stream, do a seek and then read a few bytes, then I try to access the stream again and it says it's closed. Why?
 
@TravisJ "efficiently solvable", basically.
 
@BrandenBoucher Did you dispose it on accident?
 
I kept looking at this as an agar.io game state:
 
@BradleyDotNET, at first I thought maybe but I can't see anywhere I am doing anything like that.
 
9:34 PM
@Jeremy - I sent you an email. If you could help him out at all that would be awesome of you. I will send you beer.
 
Their example makes sense. But I don't understand what it is getting at for the larger picture
I think that first part is basically asking if there is a set of x,y,z that makes this
(x || y) && (y || !z)
true
so they show that x = true, y = false, z = false
which is (true or false) and (false or true)
I think that solving something like that by definition if using an algorithm is NP Hard.
But there are situations where it becomes NP-C, can't remember the triggers off the top of my head.
 
I pass my stream into a function and do a seek and read on it and then returns, but the stream is created is the calling function. Would that cause it to be closed?
 
@BrandenBoucher - Doesn't accessing the stream consume it?
 
@TravisJ and therefore causes it to be closed?
 
Well if it reached its end of stream flag then it would just look empty if you tried to read from it later I think.
Not sure if that implicitly means it is closed or not though.
 
9:38 PM
It does't. The function just reads a few bytes from the beginning of the file.
 
Unsure.
 
@TravisJ is this a generalisation where you talk about structures like true|false? i.e. some arbitrary choice of objects that support a boolean-like algebra?
^^ talking out of my ass, I don't math
 
@TomW - Yes
 
Ooh. Can you have boolean algebras that don't commute?
That would get weird.
 
@TomW - Yes, because technically any problem can be converted into a boolean algebra statement.
 
9:40 PM
What I mean by that is x||y != y||x
 
@TomW - This is why solving one NPC problem would solve all of them as they can be transformed into boolean algebra formulas through a lot of transformation.
Hence the large amount of research people put into that field.
 
I don't see the connection, but I need to go to bed and if I think about it anymore it'll push out the knowledge that gets me paid
 
x or y is not equal to y or x. where did you get that though? usually != isn't used in that type of context. there are no situations where that equation would equate to true
lol
 
That's my definition of commutation
Which is as far as I know the definition of commutation
 
"Hearing only what you want to hear. And knowing only what you've heard."
 
9:43 PM
Don't get me wrong, I am interested. But I also need to go to bed
 
;)
Metallica lyric
Get some sleep! :P
 
@Jeremy - Any thoughts?
 
@SpencerRuport Taking a peek - will probably have to get out the textbook when I get home. When is his problem set due?
 
@Jeremy - July 8th
 
@SpencerRuport Oh, wow! No problem then. :) Is he totally stuck? Any progress?
 
9:54 PM
@Jeremy - He seems to be. He's told me stuff he's tried but I don't know the first thing about any of this so I dunno how much progress he's made.
He's on gchat though.
 
Heh, had element with id="fwork", found error with reference to "#fword"
 
10:13 PM
@SpencerRuport Not really - is there anything you are trying to do specifically?
 
@ReedCopsey - Ah a friend of mine needed some help on homework. Jeremy is talking to him. Thanks though :)
 
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