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2:00 PM
@TomW If i don't find the duplicate from google then the chances are i'm going to ask ... then some 500k rep with his "power user" knowledge of the site can find stuff nice and fast tht I can't and basically give me the hard shoulder
 
@Ggalla1779 if it is elitist, so what? If 90% of registered users have nothing of value to add, do the site's owners care?
I'm playing devil's advocate here, in the Linus sense of "I don't care about you, I care about the quality of the codebase (site)"
 
@SteveG cuz its not friday
 
@TomW the problem of course is that over time the site may become less valuable to lower level of knowledge users because the only questions within easy reach are more complex scenarios or chains of this is a duplicate of that
If i don't go from google to stack question with answer i move on
not got time to go trawling through years of "moderator closed because its a copy of <link to previous question>"
 
The site literally suggests search results as you type in the question title. It couldn't be any easier
 
@TomW yeh it's likely a solvable problem by somehow mking the db more search engine accessible
 
2:03 PM
@TomW Admit it your Elitist... now I am playing Devils Advocado
 
@TomW that i do like and generally look at ... but it does rely on me using certain keywords used in other questions
 
If they just banned every user who asks a question titled "Object reference not set to an instance of an object???" would anyone care?
Apart from those users that is
 
Just because a question is a duplicate does not mean it gets deleted
most duplicate questions get like 2-3 answers before someone comes along and closes it
 
@TomW but thats a generic error provided by .Net that could have thousands of solutions
 
user47589
lol
 
2:04 PM
@Failsafe i think even duplicates should be answerable and the asker be allowed to choose the answer
 
@Wardy digging into it in that detail deserves close as 'too localised', IMHO
 
@Ggalla1779 So did you figure out your question?
 
The problem is that you're dereferencing null. The solution is write code that doesn't do that.
 
user47589
TomW isn't "elitist"
 
@TomW and there's the problem ... how can I solve my problem by looking at some code sample that bears no relation to my problem
 
2:06 PM
@Wardy lern2code?
 
sometimes in order to see that users need an explanation from their scenario
 
user47589
A failure to understand what a null reference exception means doesn't obligate others to answer your question when you don't do due diligence.
 
I have a classic on the unity forums atm
 
@Wardy no one is going to have your scenario
unless your problem is generic
 
How common must this type of thing be: forum.unity3d.com/threads/…
 
user47589
2:07 PM
SO would be filled with such questions and would end up a garbage site.
 
and yet I can't find a solution to this anywhere
 
user47589
Programming is full of expert beginners who don't take the time to understand code or what errors mean.
 
I provided a specific block of code that reproduces this problem ... but identifying it as the problem is the issue in many cases, and what actually is the problem?
@Amy I don't even get an error, the code compiles and runs fine
 
user47589
And we get those people in here every day, fucking help vampires.
 
user47589
I'm talking about the null reference exception bullshit.
 
2:09 PM
I'm not saying its always the case but sometimes moderation could cool it a bit
nullref is a pretty common situation
pretty much every noob C# dev has seen that and has some idea what it means
 
nullref is one of the easiest errors to fix
imho
 
user47589
yes it is, and their failure to understand what it means and how to figure out what the null ref is isn't our problem.
 
shouldn't be asking about why its happening
 
So common that there are already a million answers, which the people I'm complaining about don't bother to read
 
user47589
They don't bother learning, just want quick solutions without understanding.
 
2:10 PM
but it might be valid to ask how they can avoid it in a block of surely ?
 
user47589
what is a block of surely?
 
btw: im just playing advocado at this point (trying to be a bit noob friendly)
 
The answer is there. Ensure that the object being dereferenced isn't null
 
user47589
This isn't noob friendly. This is noob pandering.
 
like that learning guy from earlier ... how do i do async service calls ... well ms documents that pretty dam well ... go read up on it and come up with something more specific
 
2:11 PM
The difference between this and your counterexample is that youre Unity compute issue is obscure, and conceptually quite complicated. Nullref is conceptually simple. The explanation straightforward enough for almost anybody to understand is a couple of lines
 
In any case, the solution isn't to rewrite the specific asker's code so as not to dereference a null, but to explain what null deref'ing is, show where it happened, and leave the OP understanding that they should check for nulls.
 
^
 
user47589
and there are already questions that do that
 
@TomW ok fair point ... but isn't "obscure, and conceptually quite complicated." defined based on your level of experience
 
user47589
2:12 PM
but people don't want to take the time to read and understand them
 
I have at least shown that I took the time to extract the problem in to a very small code sample
 
I agree that SO's current "follow the trail of Duplicates" isn't ideal, and perhaps there should be a mechanism for "mark answer as canonical".
 
user47589
Everybody is accustomed to get instant answers when they ask about facts. The problem is, you can't learn programming only by getting answers about facts; you need to build understanding, and it's a slow (and, for many, painful) process.
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan or when the trail effect happens perhaps if a user gets a link like that it auto goes to the bottom of the trail not the next item in the trail
@Amy I agree ... but it shouldn't be painfull
 
user47589
I agree it shouldn't be, but pain can be part of the growth process.
 
user47589
2:14 PM
In any profession.
 
my unity example is pita ... apparently in game programming circles im that noob asking about null refs though
the wierd thing is ... i already have doing this and reporting all 0's but works!
 
the unity help community is tiny
 
And game dev guys say stuff like "go read up on c++ and DX API's" and i'm like ... huh isn't that the point to unity is that I don't have to do all that?
 
@Wardy so part of the issue with your question is that I can't tell what you expect the result to be
 
unity should abstract me away from the DX raw calls else why use it
 
user47589
2:16 PM
Maybe he's trying to help you understand unity.
 
You've listed the results you get but...in what respect are those not correct? What were you expecting?
 
@Amy I disagree, i think that pain is important it shouldnt be excruciating but I think it helps in the long run to overcome that pain "feel the burn" as them healthy people say
 
@TomW all arrays should be filled with 1's
 
user47589
I don't see how that's a disagreement, @AlexL
 
@TomW given the logic it should be easy to see for a hlsl expert I would think
 
2:16 PM
If you're embarking on a serious effort to develop games, then yes, I also would expect you to have that minimal knowledge that is absolutely essential to programming in general. You wouldn't have to understand C++ or DX, but understanding the language and environment you work with should be the bare minimum you do. :-P
 
user47589
Absolutely, @RoelvanUden
 
@Wardy should they? Why?
Just trying to work through this as someone who knows nothing about it
oh I see
 
@TomW because in all of the shader functions i do the same thing result buffer [current thread location] = 1
 
result1d[id.x] = 1;​
gotcha
 
if you look at numthreads (attributes on each function)
i either run a flat list, a 2d set, or a 3d set of threads
 
2:18 PM
@RoelvanUden I disagree just because of the environment. Unity is a tool to abstract you away from understanding the behind the scenes work. That's the whole point, anyone can develop games, keyword being anyone
 
and in all cases i do the same thing
 
@Failsafe they'll get over it
 
@Failsafe and anyone can make a game, but you require undersanding to do good optimisation and bug fixing
 
@TomW this seems like a getting started simple basic type of behaviour to me in any language ... not sure why it's not behaving the same in all cases
that's the root of my question
 
user47589
Knowledge without understanding is useless.
 
2:20 PM
@Amy in the case of hlsl I thought I had some knowledge, apparently i don't lol
 
@Failsafe I disagree. You need to understand the language (C#) and the environment (the abstraction that is presented to you, that is, understanding how Unity itself works). In comparison, it's similar to having to understand C# and the way ASP.NET MVC works with filters etc to properly create a ASP.NET MVC application.
 
The problem with handling NullRef is easy to fix, is You will ignore the questions, where it's a side effect. And The question is about something more generic.

Like this one:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/31157563/filtering-collectionviewsource-yielding-empty-result-will-throw-exception

first comment to the question was a link to null ref "canonical" solution. But the question was about how to yield empty result with a collectionviewsource
 
“Object reference not set to an instance of an object” [duplicate] 2
-3 Object reference not set to an instance of an object [closed] 3
-9 “Object reference not set to an instance of an object.” [closed] 4
1 Object reference not set to an instance of an object 3
-2 Object reference not set to an instance of an object 2
-2 “Object reference not set to an instance of an object.” [closed] 2
2 Object reference not set to an instance of an object. 4
0 object reference not set to an instance of an object 1
thats what happens in search if you open up a new question and type "Why is my object reference not set to an instance of an object? "
 
user47589
yup, people don't want to take the time to understand the error.
 
the only question with reasonable numbers of up votes is marked a duplicate
most have long winded conversations in them
imo such a question is just not worth asking
at least put the dam debugger to work and look at how you got there!
 
2:32 PM
hello from the other side
 
user47589
hi @SteveG
 
user47589
are you on the far side?
 
yea
 
@Wardy That probably means that they should have asked "Why is my X object set to null" - which is a much more meaningful question.
 
its me ... i was wondering if all after all these years ....
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan yeh thats where I was going earlier
seems like the way a question is asked defines its "usefullness"
rather than what the actual question is
 
2:38 PM
@Wardy The actual question is the way it's asked.
 
and if mods don't like the wording > vote > close > "cuz I hate you"
 
"The question" is the text, not the problem the OP is having.
And it's the OP's responsibility to ensure the question describes the problem, because no-one else can really do that for them.
 
if the question is "how do i solve the actual problem im having" then it'll get through mostly
 
This is the classic XY scenario.
 
if its "im geting null ref here why?" then its like > vote > close
 
2:39 PM
Morning everyone.
 
@Greg mornin
 
How is everyone?
 
@Wardy "I want to do X plz post teh codes"
me.Rage()
 
user47589
hi @greg
 
good morning there Mr. Greg.
 
2:41 PM
@Squiggle yeh that blows
 
@Squiggle me is undefined. Did you mean this?
 
Anyone know why I'm getting "Sorry an error has occurred."?
 
user47589
try reversing the polarity.
 
user47589
always works in star trek
 
user47589
and they're pretty advanced.
 
2:44 PM
Your computer became sentient and apologizes for the inconvenience it caused.
 
user47589
lol
 
but it's not doing what I want it to
 
@Bardicer "Error: context not set to an instance of an object"
 
@RoelvanUden using pseudocode;
 
it doesn't say that though
 
2:45 PM
... Not sure if troll or serious.
 
> Sorry, an error has occured
 
;)
 
"Error: You fucked up.."
 
i got in trouble for trying to put that into production code once
 
@Bardicer try clicking harder
 
2:46 PM
@Bardicer try clicking more
 
@Squiggle that's not even funny...
 
Then smack enter a few times
 
user47589
The solution is to ask on forums until someone gives you the answer. No need to do anything deeper than that.
 
we had a QA guy who broke something because he could double click so fast
 
user47589
so fast
 
2:46 PM
so fast it sounded like one click
 
or you could post your error on SO Chat and expect people to fix it for you
 
@Squiggle sorry, an error occurred
Object not set to an instance of panini
 
@Bardicer wait, was your software monitoring mouse clicks via the microphone?
 
then there's the PHP error code... blank page
no, i was standing over the tester's shoulder watching him
 
I thought PHP was an error code?
 
2:47 PM
he had to tell me he double clicked
after two hours of trying to reproduce the bug with no success, i had him come over and do it on my machine
 
"Do you always click so fast?"
"I swear that's never happened to me before."
 
ended up crashing silverlight, which in turn crashed chrome
i resolved it with "No normal end user is expected to click that button more than once every 50ms"
 
@RoelvanUden Sorry had to nip out to get Tyre fixed....
 
user47589
I'm glad the Tyre is fixed.
 
so my question is how would I have a search form... then thread it so something else happened...like team news or files arrived... text box or something
 
user47589
2:50 PM
Congrats on your new job, @Squiggle
 
...not really. i spent the rest of the day trying to figure out what was going on before realizing it was a race condition
 
Squiggle where is your new job
 
@Squiggle has a new job? with @Codeman?
 
@Ggalla1779 That's a broad question
 
@RoelvanUden that's not even a question
That's just a RAM dump
 
2:52 PM
@RoelvanUden Ok let me narrow...I do a seach so call to database..1 task...... then also have a task checking for new file in folder
I want both to run at same time
 
Great. So run them at the same time.
 
how?
 
Task.Run them.
 
ok
I will googly for an example
 
Does anyone have a second to talk about TPL? I have very vauge questions.
 
2:54 PM
"Do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior TPL?"
 
lol I was going to say that
 
@RoelvanUden Dammit, I was just typing that.
 
I would like to talk about Pixzza
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan Too fast for you, friend.
 
user47589
I forgot to turn in my TPL report yesterday!
 
user47589
2:55 PM
I'm gonna hear about it from three bosses today. Oh dear oh dear.
 
Ok so I have a BlockingCollection subclass. This subclass has a Task that is started that sits and waits for items to be placed in the collection, it then takes them and spawns new Task that complete some work. In my local environment (simulation) that maximum thread count of the process is ~36. When I use it somewhere else it just keeps growing steadily (hit 170 yesterday). Any ideas?
 
Sure, why do you use a BlockingCollection and then start a task for every thing that hits it? Seems like you've missed the point of the collection in the first place?
 
// More info. In "simulation mode" I simulate serial port communication by simply returning random data when asked. (so each thread ran from the BlockCollection "main" task is an IO task). When not in simulation mode the Tasks actually hit the IO ports
 
user47589
I don't fully grok the question.
 
user47589
At a minimum I'd add logging around and inside each task, so you can see what's happening after the fact.
 
user47589
2:58 PM
If tasks are hanging, that would expose the cause.
 
So I can have many IO requests sent to the queue (underlying the BlockingCollection) sometimes nothing is input for a while, and sometimes requests flood in. The "main" task takes each item as fast as possible and spawns Tasks to run them.
 
But why do you even have the BlockingCollection if it has just a job of making more threads? Why not spawn threads at the moment you'd normally put it into the collection. After all, the collection is useless.
 

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