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3:11 AM
Do we have anything like a dupe for this?
 
 
3 hours later…
5:51 AM
I tried looking for one but gave up
 
Where is a good place to review code privately? my code is breaking but I need to submit it for a course so I don't want to publish it publicly as I am not sure on their view of asking for help.. I am getting a NameError saying a value isn't defined but it is defined at the global level in main()
 
@user24556897 Stack Overflow requires an MVCE, Code Review requires the code be public and for the code to be working as intended. You likely won't find a Stack Exchange site to fulfil your request. You probably can hire someone to 'tutor' you somewhere else.
Also "global level in main()" doesn't sound right. Either the name is in global scope or in main()'s scope.
 
6:20 AM
@user24556897 unlike other languages, a main() function has no special meaning at all in Python. It's not a default entrypoint or anything
 
@user24556897 Here. You can post the code on pastebin or github or something and delete it afterwards
 
6:39 AM
@Aran-Fey I'm guessing by "launch" you mean open-source it? I don't recall seeing packages in a kind of mixed-state on PyPI where I can download it but not access the source code from the page itself. Is this just to test build pipelines while you iron things out?
 
Basically it means being ready for the public (have documentation, have a relatively stable interface, etc.), changing the license, and then advertising it and hope it gets traction
There are a few reasons why it's already public on pypi and github, but I think the biggest one is "we didn't expect it to take this long" :D
 
Ah, well that unexpectedly answers my question - I can't see the link on the PyPI page so I thought it was closed-source
 
Oh, I was talking about rio. u is just a prototype I uploaded so that nobody could yoink the name from me
 
Ahh sorry
 
 
5 hours later…
11:24 AM
 
 
2 hours later…
1:07 PM
I wonder how much the "quality level" of software varies across programming languages. A lot of python libraries are so unbelievably bad on multiple levels that surely things must be better in other languages?
Or is today another day where I realize that I'm still too naive for this world?
 
1:19 PM
I would expect the average Python code to be worse than for other languages simply because we have a lot more beginners and self-proclaimed non-programers.
 
Hmm. You certainly have a point, but it's not like I use (m)any libraries written by people like that
I'm thinking of stuff like PIL and pywebview
*shudders* sphinx
 
1:39 PM
I guess you could argue for an interface-like design that Java uses to sorta standardise libraries. I guess with python you're just at the mercy of the initial idea, implementation and then the conflict between user ideas and your own time to keep up with them
It'll be interesting to revisit this in a year (presumably) for rio :P
 
Oh, it'll definitely suck in many ways. But I think the core design is solid, at least. Like, we don't have a rio.Image that cosplays as a class when in reality it's a module. We don't have a window.set_title method that crashes with the error "window is not yet initialized". Stuff like that
I sympathize with newbies more and more these days. It's easy to facepalm at their inability to solve basic problems, but... a big reason for that is that programming sucks. Programming messes up a normal person's brain so much that they start thinking naming a module PIL.Image is an acceptable idea
Or that it's ok for the code webview.create_window().set_title('foo') to crash because the window doesn't exist yet
We're somehow failing at the most fundamental design decisions
 
That's kinda what I mean about Java, though. It did force me to understand at least the concept of interfaces. Could I write a decent Java program from scratch? No, it'd make kittens cry. But it does give an insight into the world of program extensibility and consistency
With python - to hell with it. Make it what you want. It'll work... for now
 
1:57 PM
@Aran-Fey I've been thinking for a while now; programming isn't hard, fixing other people's bugs is.
 
I don't quite agree with that. Programming is definitely hard, much harder than I think it should be
 
I also don't agree with it. Even from an engineering background, where breaking problems down to manageable blocks is standard, is not the same as trying to scaffold a library that you expect to be built on for the next decade or so
 
Most concepts in programming are very basic. And most problems have been solved already and put in dogmatic style guides and simple design patterns. Software architecture is the most challenging part, but actually programming stuff is normally quite simple, until you hit a bug.
 
2:24 PM
For me, pretty much everything falls under "software architecture". Every now and then there's a problem that's algorithmically difficult, like this thing, but pretty much everything else is "architecture"
 
I've been in enough 'discussions' about what "pythonic" means to know I don't like semantic discussions/arguments. I will concede under you definition of programming I am wrong.
 
@Aran-Fey Yeah everything is architecture
@Aran-Fey and realizing the madness is a BIIIG aspect of how to do good architecture
Good architecture makes the program behave how humans naturally think, instead of getting humans to think like machines. The problem for most of the past we didn't have enough compute to do this, so we got a bunch of bad habits culturally. But nowadays people are so obsessed with performance even when not needed, that they make bonkers architectural decisions
Our whole app is async, even though it is not needed and makes everything way more complex
The underlying model for us is sync, so yeah, madness
 
2:41 PM
Now that's something I agree with. Age and not thinking like a human are the top two reasons why we have terrible abstractions everywhere
Ranging from command line arguments (Why do arguments have to be strings? Why no numbers, dates, lists, etc?) all the way to IDEs/libraries (Why does VScode show me files? I'm creating a module, not a file hierarchy)
Goal: Add a new function to your module
Sensible interface: Right click the module -> add function
Completely unhinged interface: Either create a new `.py` file or pick an existing one, decide where you want to write the code for the function (At the top of the file? At the bottom of the file? In the middle somewhere?), then add the name of the function to your `__all__` and/or add a `from .the_file import the_function` in your `__init__.py`
 
3:00 PM
IMO __all__ is a design error which causes code fragmentation (function and export being in different places). Where an export keyword (not a decorator) would be simpler. I also think having to WET every import in an __init__.py is also a design error. Where something like from .* import * should just handle everything. (I know some people hate import * and export, but might as well make today a day of Ls)
 
Yeah, the import/module system needs a complete rework as far as I'm concerned
Especially now that type annotations are becoming more popular. Circular imports are a giant PITA
 
3:28 PM
Just popping in for a quick second to say hi to everyone. It's been a while and I miss room6. I'm currently in $differentCity helping $familyMember from $differentCountry move into a dorm. I'm also working remotely, so timing is constrained and I haven't had much opportunity to pop in and say hi. Hope everyone's doing well. Catch you all later :)
 
3:57 PM
@inspectorG4dget Hi :)
 
 
7 hours later…
10:35 PM
@inspectorG4dget hi!
 
10:58 PM
Is there a pandas/polars specific chat? I couldnt find a search function in the chats- sorry new go stackoverflow
 
11:33 PM
have you checked the rooms list?
The search should be in the top-right of every chat page - there's a very plain-looking text entry field that should say "search" in grey letters.
 

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