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12:44 AM
Getting my Enthusiast badge soon :).
 
@OllieFord a few of us were just talking about this yesterday. I'd advise against it, although there's not really an alternative of the same size. It's a bit outdated, and I just have this vague sense that it's not quite right.
You can see the sopython site for an example of a large app with lots of parts: github.com/sopython/sopython-site
It's as good a place to start as any, I suppose, they're all going to have their shortcomings.
 
1:00 AM
@OllieFord it's an okay starting point, will get you up and running, but when you get more experienced you will find yourself changing a lot of what he was teaching.
 
yeah, that's a good way of saying it :-)
 
Hey!
is there any way to get the corresponding noun for an adjective in sentence.
I cant find any reference or question online doing so.
 
Not reliably, especially in English
 
1:49 AM
This guy really wants to use a with here: stackoverflow.com/q/32343097/892383
 
1:59 AM
I upvoted every comment saying "use if"
 
user559633
I call my liquor store Bourbon Outfitters because I have a fun problem lol
 
their supply fails to meet your demand? :p
 
user559633
2:26 AM
@JonClements Oh, not sure. Just a stolen joke from the internet machine. There's a store called "Urban Outfitters" here in the states that tries to be a "fun"/quirky clothing store.
 
2:38 AM
I now have a sudden image of "The IT Crowd" where they convince their manager she's holding the "internet" and she needs to be really careful with it :p
 
user513418
"This, Jen, is the Internet."
 
Did you know that I am one of the elders of the internet.... True story.
 
@lmontrieux and worringly - I can hear the voice that was said in :p
 
3:15 AM
Cabbage
 
@corvid Can you provide an example/starting code to build.
It seems it is problem ppl in nlp don't care for much
 
please what else can cause an import to fail, i imported a module using the filename but then when i try to instantiate a new object with a particular class name i'm getting an error saying it's not defined
i was using from module import * but when i import the module like this import module and then do module.classname it works.
please what else can cause an import to fail, i imported a module using the filename but then when i try to instantiate a new object with a particular class name i'm getting an error saying it's not defined
i was reading an article that said doing toomuch of import * could lead to namespace pollution but the author never explained what namespace pollution could do(bad side)
 
3:34 AM
If there's an __all__ list inside the module that excludes that class, you won't be able to access it by going from mymodule import *
 
i don't have any __all__ the only thing i believe that might cause the problem is that i did a lot of imports in using *
could that cause errors?
 
let me get this straight. So, you have two modules. One of them has a class (say MyClass) that you need to use in another module. You're doing from mymodule import * and then tried something like mc = MyClass(). This should work, unless you have done what I've stated above.
Namespace pollution happens when you dump all the names from one or more modules in to a single module. This could potentially cause name collisions.
 
i did something similar i'm importing A from B, and i also imported B from A...i did that because when Window B exits i want A to become visible (it's a GUI Application)
 
There you go, I think we found the bug!
Cyclic imports are causing the trouble here
When you do import something from B
Python adds the current module to the cache and goes looking for B.
At this stage, however, the remaining code in A is still not defined.
Now, when you try to get something from A inside B,
The partially cached A module is searched for that class, and since it is not fully defined, the interpreter throws in an ImportError
or NameError, based on how you called it
 
3:53 AM
oooooh.... just did a quick google search on cyclic imports i guess it's safer to use import something instead of import * so as to avoid cyclic imports....
Been battling this all day, i couldn't understand why a simple import was not working....Thanks @RenaeLider
 
Import * is sometimes useful though. PEP8 might disagree, but Tkinter and some other standard library code uses it too. Especially when it comes to packages (collection of modules), this is a great option to combine namespaces.
However, to debug your code, you can post your question here on SO. It is hard to tell what's going on without seeing the code.
 
it would have been very difficult to guess that i was doing another import that's why i preferred the chat option
 
5:02 AM
Morning CBG all
 
user559633
5:32 AM
late night evening cbg
 
Hey up all
 
yo
 
6:47 AM
Cbg
 
7:06 AM
Played some Civ: Beyond Earth for the first time yesterday
Quite fun, but haven't really got to grips with it all yet
 
Nice. When you're back in a respectable time zone we should play some games (if you have any not on a stinking console that is)
 
I'm on GMT+2 :) What you mean is, when I'm back on respectable internet
I have a few PC games
 
Tomato, potato.
 
Wow, that really doesn't work when written down :)
Is Pillars of Eternity multiplayer at all?
(Cos I have that)
 
No.
 
7:11 AM
FTL?
 
Narp.
 
Oh, you again. Well… That dog picture gets my vote one of the comment in moderator election but if feel this is old news :P
 
Left4Dead 2 has MP (and I also have it)
 
That's all I've got :) I used to have others on another steam account, but that's so old I can't remember the credentials
Do you play games like Torchlight?
 
7:13 AM
I've got Torchlight II but never played it.
 
complained there at the bottom
 
II has multiplayer, not sure about I.
 
I am getting frustrated with pycharm
 
Yeah I might get 2 though. Maybe that's a good option.
 
I am not sure if they care for python at all
 
7:15 AM
As in they wipe its bum, that sort of thing?
 
"For performance reasons, unresolved references and unused imports are detected by the same inspection."
then f****ng do not disable the inspection if just one is disabled.
 
@Rob what's your SteamID? I'll add you.
 
starts Steam again
 
Addeded.
 
Cool :) I'll confirm later when on unblocked internet
 
7:32 AM
pls if anyone of you in pycharm bugtracker go vote these
I guess they're counting the number of upvotes per bug globally or something :D
so "oh so many php bugs have upvotes, we need to fix these"
 
Question: If a module A imports another module B, and adds a variable to it by going B.foobar = 1234, this new variable is available for all other modules that imports B. Is this a bad practice?
 
No
 
@RenaeLider what are you asking?
yes, adding a variable to another module can be a bad practice
 
Sometimes it's useful and not a bad practice at all
 
no
it is bad practice
 
7:46 AM
sigh ok
 
it does not make it good that it is useful :D
 
I have a plugin package full of individual plugin modules. The __init__.py groups them all up. A custom clean up class is added to all plugins depending on the tempfiles they created. If this is done individually in each plugin, it is just code duplication. But if I dynamically assign them in the __init__.py it isn't.
 
dependency injection
I still do not quite follow how and what you're doing here. In any case code duplication is not a good thing...
 
Indeed, hence my question.
 
@RenaeLider import * can be useful in the __init__.py files of a package to intentionally bring all of the package's names into one namespace. And it's handy when you're testing stuff in an interactive interpreter. But it should not be used in normal modules / scripts. The fact that Tkinter & various other 3rd party libraries use it in their example code is extremely annoying because it makes newbies think it's an acceptable practice.
 
7:51 AM
but if you think that doing b.foobar = 1234 is the best way to avoid code duplication then I'd disagree. I've never done such.
how do these plugins register themselves?
so you're saying that a plugin wants to do:
 
@PM2Ring Don't take my word for it, listen to one of the Guru's of Python: youtube.com/watch?v=0oTh1CXRaQ0
 
@RenaeLider the video is overly long, which part are you referring to
 
@RenaeLider: You might like to take a look at how I've implemented plugins in this answer which illustrates the use of import * in __init__.py files.
 
@PM2Ring that's not what @RenaeLider is asking I'm afraid.
 
@AnttiHaapala These plugins are registered via subclassing a parent Plugin class and overriding some of the methods.
 
7:54 AM
this is about injecting some code to plugins
 
@AnttiHaapala No, he/she is referring to one of earlier posts.
 
@RenaeLider registered? how does the parent class know it is subclassed
 
@AnttiHaapala The instance adds itself to a queue.
 
@AnttiHaapala Ah, ok. I haven't yet read Renae's recent posts closely, I just saw the word "plugin" and made an assumption. :)
 
@RenaeLider actually @PM2Ring just repeated exactly that which Beasley said...
about import *
that it is useful there where it is useful, but shouldn't be used where it is not
pep8 is first and foremost a style guide for python standard library; it especially says that in python standard library there shouldn't be any import *
 
8:01 AM
At some point in that tutorial he comes back to this topic and explains why he disagress with pep 8 on this issue, and points out some standard library code that actually does this. It is somewhere in that 3 hour video, I assure you.
 
@RenaeLider there is nothing I or @PM2Ring or Beazley would disagree on about this.
what one needs to understand there is a difference between importing * from your module, and importing * from someone else's module.
 
That makes sense.
 
if you read pep8, it says:
There is one defensible use case for a wildcard import, which is to republish an internal interface as part of a public API (for example, overwriting a pure Python implementation of an interface with the definitions from an optional accelerator module and exactly which definitions will be overwritten isn't known in advance)
 
One thing I've learned recently is that everyone has their own disagreements about pep 8. For instance, here's a video of Raymond Hettinger talking about some of the unnecessary restrictions of pep 8:
 
8:15 AM
yeah, his gorilla argument is exactly what I feel
we're writing spaghetti-code and dunno sh*t about 'pythonic', but we won't accept your PR because the line is 81 chars.
 
PEP80: all lines must be exactly 80 chars long.
 
Please split your lines when you're concatenating SQL from user input.
 
21
Q: What PEP 8 guidelines do you ignore, and which ones do you stick to?

ThE_JacOOver the years, the more Python I write, the more I find myself agreeing with most of the guidelines, though I consistently and intentionally break some for my own reasons. I'd be curious to know what in PEP 8 (or other PEPs too maybe) people religiously stick to and why, and what people find in...

 
8:50 AM
As an experiment, I'm going to try and install a Windows venv using my Linux venv's pip requirements, and see if everything just runs
Wow, it worked. That's awesome.
 
I do not deviate from naming conventions...
python_is_lower_case_with_underscores = True
javaIsWrittenInCamelCaseLikeThis = True
the reason is that the stdlib is written 1 way...
and libraries are written in this 1 way...
so you'd be context switching all the time
 
9:11 AM
Man, eggs are crazy expensive right now.
 
get them for free from PyPI
 
Yea, I was thinking that :).
I'd like a new set of wheels, too.
rimshot
Ouch, -10 and counting: stackoverflow.com/q/32349041/892383
 
2 dvs
gone
 
9:59 AM
@Kevin how's the script?
 
how did I do a custom IPython html repr for an object?
_repr_html_
 
10:23 AM
Hmm, someone copying pasting to try to patch together some authentication... tempted to answer, but there's a rabbit hole to get lost down... hmm....
 
cv ;)
 
10:41 AM
@JRichardSnape it's either rabbit hole or writing...
 
you got it fizzy
 
I know the feeling. Look at my rep chart on my profile. The period of insane growth when I got all the rep was during writing up :p
 
Cabbage!
 
11:02 AM
cbg @poke
 
11:21 AM
Re-cabbage
 
That was super annoying so link to crow gifs
 
11:37 AM
os.system('perl your_perl_script.pl') to get full compatibility with Perl’s syntax. — poke 8 secs ago
 
@corvid That gif is like “corvid, please stop asking random questions without context” – “Nope.”
 
@Ffisegydd we need a photoshop/whatever gif software pro to combine the two gifs
 
@poke Naughty! But I like it. :)
 
@PM2Ring Fits OP’s requirement though, right?
 
11:40 AM
True
 
Speaking of inane and contextless questions...
 
hey can anyone help me reading the .csv file using shell
 
@kiran Please provide any code you have so far, and explain what your issue is.
 
"using shell", what do you mean by that? If it's python we can help
 
And yeah, if it isn't Python then you should go elsewhere for help.
 
12:03 PM
Hmm... can you check that something exists within a database and throw an error if it does, but otherwise, upsert, without making 3 trips to the DB?
 
@Kevin readRegister() is just function to read value from registers. I have not given its implementation here as I don't find it necessary. I am more concerned about the the values i am getting from these register. The dict I have created is just a value it read from the specific register. — Chets Goms 4 hours ago
Sighhhhhhh
Oh, and he only "answered" my first question and not my second. 1-2 punch right there
 
I am using cat command...but it is not showing me the data ..last line is overwriting all other.. And I didn't saw any shell community so I though may b you people have some idea for shell..
 
@kiran I suggest you ask a proper question with an MCVE
Oh good, this GCSE exercise is back: stackoverflow.com/q/32352699/3001761
I would be less irritated by lazy idiots bringing us their homework if they at least had interesting new problems to solve.
 
That's an unusual definition of "good" you're using there, jonrsharpe. :)
 
I think your version with the quotes is closer to what I had in mind!
 
12:18 PM
:)
 
My money would also be on this one being a sub-problem of the same thing: stackoverflow.com/q/32352825/3001761
 
I'm strongly considering writing a user script that filters out all posts that have "score" in the title
 
@jonrsharpe Possibly. But at least they're attempting to isolate their problem into a focused question, even if they haven't actually posted any code. :)
 
It's a step forward, I suppose!
Better than "HOW DO I HOMEWORK?!"
 
They already know that. I do homework by searching on The Internet
The answer to Everything is on The Internet
please do feel free to imagine the monotonic voices in my head intoning that
 
12:24 PM
Speaking of homework... I asked the OP to delete this non-answer, but he's no longer responding. Should I flag it, or is there a better way to handle it?
 
@PM2Ring ...it was deleted 11 minutes ago!
 
I tried answering the nasty authentication problem and then tried to back out as I realised it was literally someone trying to paste a load of blog posts together, do some crazy dangerous security stuff and then shouting "MAKE MY CODE WORK FOR ME".
 
@jonrsharpe Weird. I'm sure I just refreshed that page.
 
I feel real genuine sorrow when I read a post like "I need to do X but I couldn't find the code online" because the OP must think that's all coding is, googling snippets and jamming them together
 
@jonrsharpe I see it
 
12:26 PM
I don't know where they think the snippets come from in the first place, but OPs rarely have an internally consistent worldview anyway
 
@jonrsharpe And now it's gone.
 
mystical music - strange happenings
 
See also "I found other questions but none gave me the answer" meaning "they didn't have precisely the same code as me to start with, so the answer must not apply"
 
gone for me too. maybe I imagined something
 
Gotta love "I found a lot of other questions asking this, but they didn't quite fit and/or I didn't understand them", and then they give no information about why either of those things is the case.
 
12:30 PM
Maybe people have developed a notion that the snippets have just always existed. Almost like their creation was an edge effect, so far away that it can be considered an initial condition, at practically infinite time in the past.
 
Could be that all the answers use complex list comprehensions, could be that the OP doesn't know how function calls work yet. Who knows???
 
So all we have been doing is re-ordering teh codez
 
So the best you can do is post an answer and pray that they don't go "I don't understand this, please try again"
 
In a way, the code is already written, and we are just finding it
 
yeah - it's quasi religious if you think about it
 
12:31 PM
In the same way that a sculptor finds the statue in a block of stone
Only with more coffee
 
We're on the same wavelength here
On which note - lunch and coffee is calling. (temporary) Rbrb
 
I trying to locate the the noun an adjective describes in a sentence. So far I had no luck finding something even close to a library that does the job. Can someone provide a starting point.
 
Devil's advocate: they know that snippets are written by people, but they think that those people are so far above them in ability it would be pointless to explore on their own.
This viewpoint is a little nicer because I like being regarded as a god.
 
@AbhishekBhatia nltk.org
 
Thanks jonrsharpe, it seems to have no such function though.
 
12:34 PM
You expect there to be a from magic import locate_the_noun_an_adjective_describes?
 
You will have to write some of it yourself!
 
Woah. Full circle!
Yes, it is true. Part of coding is writing code. Some might say it's the most important part!
6
 
I just wanted to know if it is actual problem someone in NLP is trying to solve and what is the state of such approaches and their accuracy.
Seems to be the first step when you approach a research problem.
 
I don't believe that you managed to read the entire NLTK documentation, etc in the time that it took you to say "It seems to have no such function though"
Unless you knew about NLTK in advance?
 
12:38 PM
I use the nltk library to tagged the POS words and tokenize. (Adding link to better state where I am now. stackoverflow.com/questions/32329039/…)
It works nearly perfectly with the max-ent approach. I guess I hoping too much for it to complete my job, but I just looking for if such problem statement already exists.
 
It may be more productive to ask such a question on an NLP-specific message board
 
Oh-oh. Another newbie recommending Learn Python The Hard Way stackoverflow.com/a/32353469/4014959
 
Is that a bad thing?
 
Some of us have noticed a pattern of certain bad coding practices &/or misconceptions of how Python works from people who learned from LPTHW. But I can't recall specific details off the top of my head.
 
Ah, right
 
12:52 PM
Also, I'm personally not fond of the author's "boot-camp" style. OTOH, it has lots of fans. But my main gripe is about the questions we get from LPTHW readers who all seem to be doing the same wrong stuff.
 
Plus, some people have a cow about the author's vehement anti Py 3 stance.
 
have a cow, a nice expression. will add to my vocabulary :)
 
A thing I don't understand. How does one learn to code but miss the but where you develop an instinct to sprinkle print statements through code when it doesn't work as expected?
 
Part of the Hard Way technique is throwing the students into coding a giant crappy text-based adventure game. And when they have problems they post 3 screenfuls of mess that they expect us to debug.
 
Is there something like "if anything is unclear, don't hesitate to ask as SO to debug your code"?
 
1:00 PM
@bereal It's a perfectly cromulent expression.
 
"3 screenfuls of mess" I like that.
 
cromulent, yeah, another new word
what a day, what a lovely day
Yeah, I recall that episode, but I saw it in Russian.
 
Ah. It's tricky translating made-up words so that they have the right feel.
 
I don't remember how they translated 'cromulent', but 'embiggen's literal translation fits just fine.
 
cbg
Did I do a mistake in this dupe hammer ?
 
1:14 PM
Hmm, are modules garbage collected when the scope they were imported in ends?
I have a vague feeling that they just hang around forever.
 
I fear you may have. There may be an interesting question about memory in there.
 
BTW - does everyone else see an Angelfire blocking image on that link posted by @pm2, or just me, or just UK?
 
I am seeing rloadblock.gif
 
it's not just you, @JRichardSnape
 
1:16 PM
OK. Quite clever of them, really.
 
ugg. Anyone getting a problem with metaSO?
SO seems to be fine. But meta ain't loading
 
yerp connection refused
maintenance? Or overloaded.
 
Bah PM ninja'd me on that question
 
@JRichardSnape Oh. It's a picture of Bart Simpson saying "Don't have a cow, man!"
 
Yeah - I worked it out - very appropriate.
 
1:21 PM
Is it just me, or is making this question a duplicate of a duplicate of a duplicate of a duplicate kinda silly? — Colonel Thirty Two 7 mins ago
 
@Kevin I was pretty sure that import caching worked that way, but it was nice that I found a link about it in Bharav's dupe target.
 
it's just him
:D
 
@PM Then this is certainly a dupe of this
 
I'll leave my comment there anyway, since the information about sys.modules is somewhat useful
 
I'd entreat one of you to put that down as an answer on the memory / import inside function Q. Particularly if you can put in a quick demo. Or close as dupe of the Q PM2 found.
 
1:23 PM
I haven't got enough give-a-darn juice today to put together a benchmark
 
fair enough. I run out of give-a-yam quite frequently too
 
Damn just short of 100 votes
 
1:41 PM
Why did you split isexample as is and example and not i,sex and ample (all of which are standard words present in dictionary). — Bhargav Rao 1 min ago
:D
 
@BhargavRao I think it actually refers to someone who has recently lost weight and is ex-ample.
 
:)
I thought it was ex-ample as well, but thought that meant they've dated a lot
 
nice @bobbyG
Actually - although I've voted to close, the most recent answer there is pretty good to serve as a reference for the problem.
 
Perhaps if the library connected to the person's Facebook account it could decide based on sentiment analysis of people of their preferred partner gender posting on their wall
 
1:46 PM
Hmm - now you're going virtual on us. iSex? Ample.
 
4 answers here stating the same thing. :/
 
user559633
@RobertGrant Wouldn't imply that they or something they had was ample and is now not?
 
May the most equal answer win!
@tristan yes but that was already taken by @JRichardSnape :)
 
user559633
Oh. Well, I'm just recently ex-sleeping. Sorry.
 
Ex-sleeping? Don't post that on a public website!
 
1:54 PM
:D
 
*claps*
 
user559633
I'm a ex-lizard agenda politician, now an illegal immigrant of sealandia, high on pet drugs because I'm secretly a turtle
 
red lights just flashed at GCHQ
 
Oh, you can post that. We'll even give you free stuff.
 
user559633
I decided over coffee this morning that I will change my names to James Bond and I will become a bail bondsman in James City County, Virginia. And when people comment on it, I'll act embarrassed, insist it's a coincidence, and try to change the topic quickly.
 
2:00 PM
That is an amazing plan
As a fallback, write an unofficial Bond novel where Britain's greatest secret agent gets that job by accident, and enjoys it so much he gives up the spy life. Until one day...
 
That brings to mind Stewart Lee's idea for Shitterton Tonne of Shit and Crapstone Crap Stone
(s03e01 of the Comedy Vehicle, for anyone with access to it via Netflix etc.)
 
user559633
 
Brilliant. Love it. Three cheers for Aussie pigs.
 
user559633
Seriously. Finally someone had the guts to do what needed to be done.
 
I'm confused about testing... Will clearing my object's database cause the real database to be dumped? I feel like that can't be right...
 
user559633
2:12 PM
...do you use a different database when in test?
 
I am not sure, this library abstracts away from that so it's hard to tell
 
Time to read all the code :)
 
user559633
which library?
 
Meteor and munit. It looks like they have "stubs", but never describe how to use them
 
One thing you can do is set up a test environment and just try it, but that depends on how long that would take to do
 
2:20 PM
I still don't get the difference between TDD and BDD :\
 
user559633
TDD is test driven design. BDD is beer driven design -- like javascript frameworks.
 
user559633
Yeah, we totally need a javascript tool to move files around the disk. That needs to go in.
 
user559633
Wake up the next morning "what did we do last night? they're files. FILES"
 
JavaScript is surprisingly good with files imho, I like how you can watch file systems and initiate callbacks on changes
 
2:23 PM
But it's so...asynchronous! finishes latest beer from all-night binge
@corvid uh oh
 
user559633
My understanding of BDD is that someone gave a scrum/snakeoil consultant some cocaine and they said "wait, tests are too LOW LEVEL. what we need is people writing code based on how they expect the software to WORK." which is funny, because BDD is just pseudocode for a piece of software being written to fit into an existing workflow
 
user559633
NodeJS == the "what if we keep drinking" language of the last 10 years.
 
Let's invent ADD - Acceptance Driven Development. Really what you want is a set of acceptance criteria, and you build according to those criteria! holds out hand for money
 
user559633
Isn't ADD where you touch and refactor a bunch of small parts of your codebase without actually doing the task you sat down to do? I know it is for me. :/
 
ADD too difficult? Perhaps you have Acceptance Driven Hyperactivity Disorder! Try these mental exercises! holds out hand for more money
Ah, we went different ways with that one, but basically the same joke hideous reality
 
user559633
2:29 PM
I wasn't joking
 
And yeah I know that feeling very well
There's also Weeping Driven Development, where you have to make a lot of accurate, complicated changes quickly, and the one thing you know always works isn't working and you have to fix that first.
 
NegaKevin is crossing the streams. That's bad.
 
user559633
Why should you change your name? He's the one that sucks
 
:-D
 
mutters darkly about time coincidence and the coming of the Kevins
 
2:38 PM
>>> from email.utils import parseaddr
>>> parseaddr('This is totaly@invalidcom')
('', 'Thisistotaly@invalidcom')

----
What is the purpose of this library ... if it can't parse the string correctly.
Regex the only way?
 
That could be valid
 
>>> parseaddr('howcanthisbevalid')
('', 'howcanthisbevalid')

This is also passing. :(
 
user559633
docs.python.org/3/library/email.util.html#email.utils.parseaddr i'm not totally sure what the tuple is supposed to be
 
user559633
@VineetKumarDoshi That's a valid email address.
 
It's supposed to do this:
>>> parseaddr("John Smith <john.smith@example.com>")
('John Smith', 'john.smith@example.com')
 
user559633
2:41 PM
Cool, thanks Kevster
 
user559633
thou shall read the RFCs
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3696
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5321
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5322
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6531

and then remember that many email servers break the standard
 
If you're trying to split "john.smith@example.com" into ["john.smith", "example.com"], perhaps you could use s.split("@").
 
>>> parseaddr("Sherlock Holmes <Baker Street>")
('Sherlock Holmes', 'BakerStreet')

It doesn't even check if there is @ symbol present or not :(
 
Are @ symbols necessary for email addresses?
 
user559633
@VineetKumarDoshi Seriously. You've been told 3 times. You need to learn what is valid for email addresses before complaining that some well-tested library is not doing the right thing.
 

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