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12:00 PM
@IntrepidBrit GOT IT!
@corvid electron orbitals ?
 
@corvid Ah okay. There are certain discrete orbits electrons can "inhabit" and they just can't transition from one t'other. That diagram specifies which states they can move from and to
 
oh okay, I don't quite understand its significance
it just seems like fields of probability where the electron is
 
@corvid If memory serves me correctly, it was one of the "problems" that classical physics couldn't explain - which led to quantum mechanics
 
yeah. Hate how introductory subjects tend to raise more questions than they answer
 
When it's science, it's hard not to. I find the questions that "need to be answered" interesting :)
 
12:08 PM
that's why I like subjects that are less abstract, you can try things out and make sense of it more easily. Big reason why I like python, the interpreter is awesome for trying out theories
 
Hey hey, I just bought the memory
Hopefully all other components will work
 
memory always works
 
@corvid Well, most of the physics principles can be found out via experiment. Not so sure it's safe to do so for chemistry
 
@avi Happy diwali!!
 
avi
@Swordy wish you the same :)
(for others, Diwali is a festival of light (: )
 
12:13 PM
I'd definitely set something on fire, even if it was a lab about the properties of water not being flammable
 
Everyone loves fire.
 
I like how it keeps one warm while you watch your annoying neighbour's house burns down :)
 
Cabbage.
 
cbg @poke
 
@JonClements Troubling
 
12:18 PM
one question I've always had about chemistry but felt like it was too dumb of a question to ask... what, physically, is fire? It seems so weird
 
@JonClements what if it is summer season?
 
It’s a chemical reaction
 
cbg(@poke)
 
Jon is this you?
 
@corvid yeah I agree. It's just the release of energy (in light and heat) and rapid oxidation of some fuel.
 
12:19 PM
@corvid There’s no puppy in that picture?
 
@poke yes... my little girl costume is very effective
 
A puppy with a girl's mask on?
 
A flame (from Latin flamma) is the visible, gaseous part of a fire. It is caused by a highly exothermic reaction taking place in a thin zone. Some flames are hot enough to have ionized gaseous components of sufficient density to be considered plasma. == Mechanism == Color and temperature of a flame are dependent on the type of fuel involved in the combustion, as, for example, when a lighter is held to a candle. The applied heat causes the fuel molecules in the candle wax to vaporize. In this state they can then readily react with oxygen in the air, which gives off enough heat in the subsequent...
 
@JonClements I was confused for a second… and then you edited the message… xD
 
@Swordy Oh... you don't do it during summer - that's not fun
@poke I seemed to have suddenly turned into Strax there...
 
12:24 PM
My right arm has been sore for the last 18 hours. I wonder if I'm having an extremely slow stroke or something.
 
That'd be your left arm.
Unless Kevins work differently to Humans.
 
Maybe I have organs-on-the-wrong-side disease.
 
@Kevin Is that actually a possible thing?
 
It's a real thing, but I can never remember the name
 
Yeah it's real.
 
12:26 PM
Good
 
Situs inversus (also called situs transversus or oppositus) is a congenital condition in which the major visceral organs are reversed or mirrored from their normal positions. The normal arrangement is known as situs solitus. In other rare cases, in a condition known as situs ambiguus or heterotaxy, situs cannot be determined. The term situs inversus is a short form of the Latin phrase "situs inversus viscerum", meaning "inverted position of the internal organs". Dextrocardia (the heart being located on the right side of the thorax) was first seen and drawn by Leonardo da Vinci in 1452–1519, and...
 
Anyway, it stops aching if I rest the crook of my elbow on top of my head. But this is not something I want to do in public.
 
I wonder if right-handed situs inversus people are more likely than left-handed situs solitus people.
 
I wonder if vampires are happy to discover they have the condition.
This one weird trick has vampire hunters stumped!
 
huh
 
12:29 PM
I wonder if anyone ever survived an attempt to kill them because they have Dextrocardia and the would-be murderer missed the heart..
 
did you guys know people still use handheld calculators? Weird
 
I bet, although it's not something I would personally depend on. "I'll walk down this dark alley, since an attacker won't know the proper place to stab"
 
Physical calculators will remain a thing until they make touch screens with lifelike tactile feedback. Simple vibration doesn't cut it.
Gotta have that satisfying button pressing action
 
12:34 PM
@corvid I do.
 
Physical calculators will remain a thing as if you use your phone you can also easily cheat in exams.
I've got 3 calculators on my desk right now. I collect them as trophies from slain PhD students.
 
@Kevin Same with keyboards. And mice. And most other input mechanisms. Auto-correct simply doesn’t cover haptic feedback.
 
Schools should just accept the fact that people are a gestalt hive mind, and allow them to access their prosthetic memory (i.e. the internet) during exams.
 
can you program functions into calculators? If so then this class would become absurdly easy
or constants, can you program constants in?
 
@corvid depends on the calculator.
I had a calculator that you could program functions and constants into, do plotting, solve equations, etc. Of course it wasn't allowed under the exam rules as it was too OP.
 
12:36 PM
My TI-83+ had primitive function capability. They couldn't accept parameters or return values, though.
 
I stole commandeered it from the physics department
 
It's three dashes on either side
 
three hyphens.
 
was having some trouble there
 
@Ffisegydd stop earning rep, how will I catch up if you keep doing that? :)
 
12:36 PM
For old school cred, use ^H instead
 
I forgot misremembered the number of hyphens required (3).
 
You've already gotten within 500 rep of me, that was my "safety barrier"! I need to regain my 500 rep buffer!
 
@Kevin Surely you mean ^W, you greybeard^Wrespected member of the channel.
 
@corvid There are calculators where people have programmed games onto it.
I think DOOM works on some calculator.
 
Pokemon too.
 
12:38 PM
:-)
 
Yeah, I had Doom on my TI-83
 
“Twitch plays Calculator-Pokemon”
 
I saw one calculator where the person had taken out the insides completely and replaced it with a phone, then they had a fake button panel to make it look like a calculator and their home screen had a fake calculator screen at the top so it looked like the real thing.
Then to use it they could just take the fake buttons off and use their phone.
 
It was an industrial design class, so he got an A for his fine workmanship.
 
that's genius. I made a program to read my chemistry questions and suggest the most likely solution based on the syntax
 
12:40 PM
I used mine for equations that I knew, but did not want to type out every time.
 
I don't really get the point of questions that just ask you to put variables into an equation in classes
 
that sucks... because we didn't have good enough phones to do that when I did exams :(
 
@Ffisegydd >_<
 
On my second redbull today. Gon' be a good day (◕‿◕)
 
We've broken our coffee machine out from hibernation today. I can see sounds.
 
#stackoverflow I wake up to this. Can you believe it? @nycpython in my rush to get #over9000 I went too far! #python http://t.co/tzmM37X1zd
 
I have transcended this lowly mortal coil
 
@Ffisegydd The fact that they have a decent amount of SQL answers and badges make that all the funnier!
 
12:46 PM
@AaronHall Congrats :)
 
@AaronHall onto 10k then!
 
Then you can join us in the 10k+ smoking room and gentleman's club.
 
Lol thanks!!
 
Twitter time!
Got the awesome DDR4 @CorsairMemory. Yay! http://t.co/fKVMWiLTri
(I don't normally do this but I had been waiting for that DRAM for more than a month)
Well, sorry :)
 
12:58 PM
idgi
 
Bleh I enabled hardware assisted virtualization and now the JVM won't start
Is it worth rebooting to find out if correlation equals causation after all?
 
what does it mean to subclass object, anyway?
 
No, because I just started another Java application and it's fine.
 
to make a class that inherits from object? What's the context here? Maybe they're trying to distinguish between new and old style classes.
 
@corvid Any type inherits object.
 
1:01 PM
yeah, so is there any difference from class Blah() and class Blah(object)?
 
In Python 2, yes.
 
Depends on your version of Pahfon.
 
Long ago, before the breaking of the world...of Python.
 
I thought that doing class Blah() would just imply that it inherits from object, does it not do that in 2?
 
Narp.
 
1:03 PM
322
Q: Old style and new style classes in Python

ReadonlyWhat is the difference between old style and new style classes in Python? Is there ever a reason to use old-style classes these days?

 
this question is interesting to me. It's effectively asking, "when I catch an AttributeError, is it possible to get the object that caused the exception?"
 
@Kevin your my man ;) I think you are always up to a nice contest -- aren't you? :P
cbg(again= all )
 
@Peter I'll have a go at it, give us the rules again.
 
mm, possibly. I can never predict what kind of challenge will grab my interest.
 
@Ffisegydd but it regex.. :P
 
1:07 PM
Who better to do a regex solution than someone who hates it?
 
okay then
MISSION: 'at' symbol ('@') followed by a character-set 'a', 'b', 'c', where 1) the followig expression can contain at most 1 of the elements of the character-set 2) the length of the expression is 0 or at most the length of the character-set 3) the expression is unordered 4) the expression cannot be followed by another word like character.
The best solution is when the regex is highly extensible, and removing or adding a new character to character-set does not require to completely rewrite the regular expression.
Examples:

    @a      => match
    @aa     => not a match
    @bac    => match
    @xabc   => not a match
    @acx    => not a match
    @       => match
cbg(@ZeroPiraeus)
 
BUH. Why is the z axis going upwards? I thought it was supposed to go depth-wise
 
Tricky.
 
cbg :-)
 
@Kevin I already have a working solution -- however, it is missing the last bit: highly extensible
each time I want to add a character or remove from the set, I have to modify the regex a lot
 
1:10 PM
Don't post solutions to chat, instead put them in a pastebin
 
@corvid I always envision the z axis as perpendicular to the computer screen. Maybe they wrote the page on a screen embedded in a table surface, in which case "out/in" is also "up/down"
 
@Ffisegydd I already did that ;)
 
But if positive Z is pointing towards the reader, they're heretics.
 
@Kevin I think of it the same way. I think that it's considered arbitrary, but in OpenGL/DirectX it's standard to define it that way
 
Yeah, it's pretty much arbitrary.
 
1:12 PM
 
As far as we can tell, the universe has no privileged axes. There's no "universal up".
The above statement doesn't really have much to do with your problem, but it's interesting, isn't it?
 
@PeterVaro You don’t ping me for a regex contest? :(
 
@poke because you are naturally in by default ;)
 
@Kevin Time?
 
But I wasn’t looking at chat for a bit!
 
1:14 PM
:D
 
@ZeroPiraeus Shrug. I didn't take enough physics classes in college to actually know what I'm talking about.
Errata: the universe has no privileged space axes.
 
Me neither ... my understanding of the nature of the universe comes, to a worrying degree, from thinking about especially timey-wimey DW plot points in the shower.
 
(note to self: "The Privileged Space Axe" as the title for a "scifi political intrigue meets sword and sorcery" novel)
 
(note to self: support the fund-raising campaign of "The Privileged Space Axe" sci-fi novel)
 
@Peter I believe I have a solution in 3 lines.
 
1:20 PM
shoot us
@JonClements screw those islands!
 
I'm drawing a state diagram for this regex, and so far I don't see a way to make it have fewer than N! nodes, where N is the number of characters in the permitted set.
 
@Kevin I end up with the same thoughts -- but don't give up yet ;)
 
@Ffisegydd Heh, pretty much what I was thinking of doing :-)
 
You could put it all on one line if you wanted an ungodly one-liner.
 
1:22 PM
that's just terrible ;)
:D:D
 
Terrible? TERRIBLE!?
 
@Kevin suggested catchphrase for the main character (just before shooting someone): "Trigger warning".
 
Only problem is, when the user says, "actually, the permitted set has 26 elements", then the run time balloons to "larger than the lifespan of the universe"
@ZeroPiraeus Haha
 
can you construct a 3D model using python?
 
Python has OpenGL bindings, so yes.
 
1:23 PM
@corvid you can even import antigravity!
 
@Peter can you link to your "solution" again?
 
If you're asking if there is any rendering software comparable to Maya and friends, written in Python... I doubt it
 
@Kevin blender?
 
@corvid you can use MayaVI and Blender.
 
1:24 PM
FreeCAD?
 
it is written in C and wrapped with Python
 
@Peter I prefer mine :P It's more readable.
 
nah, something like constructing a cube purely programmatically, if that makes sense
 
@Ffisegydd but not as efficient as a regex than mine
@corvid you need the coordinates? (the 8 vertices of a cube?)
that's not so hard to implement
 
yeah, I will make other objects relative to the original cube as well
 
1:26 PM
@corvid I think I have to ask you: what exactly are you doing?
 
messing around with python because curious, that's really about it
 
@Ffisegydd will your solution match the empty char-set?
I don't think it will..
 
You could remove the 1 in the range for that possibly
 
@corvid that's fine, but what is the goal?
 
Then you'll get a tuple back which is empty.
 
1:28 PM
@Ffisegydd I know how to achieve that -- just saying your solution at that point is missing a required criteria
 
I wrote an absolutely terrible 3d rendering project using nothing but PIL to write the results to an image file.
 
@PeterVaro create a 3d shape, and create a camera which can rotate around that shape
 
So in principle, it's totally possible.
 
@corvid okay -- you want only numbers, or you want to draw this on the screen?
 
numbers would probably work out better in the end... which come to think of it makes it easy
 
1:30 PM
Coordinates for the unit cube are quite simple to make.
>>> import itertools
>>> coords = list(itertools.product([0,1], repeat=3))
>>> coords
[(0, 0, 0), (0, 0, 1), (0, 1, 0), (0, 1, 1), (1, 0, 0), (1, 0, 1), (1, 1, 0), (1, 1, 1)]
Tadaaa
 
I asked it, because if you want to draw, you have to "render" it, and I don't think you want to write a rendering engine as @Kevin did -- so you want to use a framework instead
anyway, if it is only coordinate-geometry, than @Kevin has a point
draw a unit-cube, and use liner-transformations
 
We need LightTable for Python
 
do you know anything about vectors and matrices?
@RobertGrant anything but that :)
 
IIRC, most of the terrible code was in figuring out in which order to draw the polygons, so no Z-fighting occurred. If you only care about vertices, then it's a lot easier.
 
@poke any progress with the regex contest?
 
1:32 PM
I assume the next step is really just getting a package for optimized matrix operations
 
I bet @Ffisegydd can help you with that with numpy
I never used that.. :P
 
Yeah, use numpy.
Consider that me "helping". That'll be £100 consultancy fee.
 
however if you are interested in the lower-levels, say, implement this in C, then I can recommend you this:
I use linmath.h all the time, when writing transformations for OpenGL
 
@PeterVaro Not working on it
 
@poke :(
 
1:37 PM
My knowledge of regex features extends only to * and | and ( and ), so I don't think I'm going to find anything better than factorial complexity
 
buh. How does energy correlate to frequency and wavelength? Higher frequency is shorter wavelength, but how does energy fit in?
 
@corvid E = hv
oops
 
@PeterVaro why? :)
 
@Kevin have you checked my solution?
it is linear though..
 
Yeah, I got as far as P<SET1> before I couldn't understand it
 
1:41 PM
@corvid ( Energy of a photon = planck's constant * frequency )
 
@PeterVaro I couldn't get any better than what you had
 
@Kevin that's named group assignment => instead of referring to a group as \1
you name it, so you don't have to remap your numbers
@davidism :(
 
@RobertGrant because LightTable is terrible => it tries to solve a problem (terrible debugging features of JS) but instead of solving it only hides this fact from you
 
1:43 PM
@PeterVaro I thought it was Clojure?
 
@RobertGrant what was Clojure?
 
LightTable
 
you mean LT is designed for Clojure?
 
Yeah, I thought that was the primary language, not JS
 
IIRC it was JS but gimme a sec
 
1:44 PM
Oh hey, it does do Python
 
hmm.. I cannot find any useful info on that
but all the builtin features (like browser on a tab, reloading on "save" or the support of WebGL)
are supporting what I said -- but sure, it is a language neutral text editor
as all editors are, where you can put characters in, and save them as a stream ;)
 
AFAIK it's designed to give instant feedback during the development process, which includes OpenGL stuff, so you could visualise graphical code, such as code that renders a cube :)
 
@RobertGrant it is extremely hard to debug OpenGL -- to illustrate that fact: you don't have a "print" like function
there is no stdout where you can debug what you have so far
 
Isn't that why being able to visualise the output is a good idea?
 
and if you are serious about OpenGL => you are moving toward to 3+ => shaders => shaders has pretty nice debugging environments
way more complex and sophisticated than LT has
(also not supported by the language/framework itself, they are emulated environments)
 
1:50 PM
I'm still not sure why you say LightTable is terrible, in light of all this :)
 
anyway -- the last thing I don't like about LT is its GUI -- but ofc this is a personal matter
@RobertGrant because the problem is in OpenGL and JavaScript -- we need better environments, interpreters, whatever -- not creating utils which keep these tools unimproved
but again -- this is my own opinion
 
cbg(all)
 
cbg(@d-coder)
 
But isn't this a tool as well? Them being deficient doesn't make the tool that improves the experience bad.
 
I have to run now, but I be back in 20-30
we will continue from here
 
1:53 PM
And I don't think Javascript is 100% relevant when I mentioned it regarding writing 3D code in Python :)
 
rhubarb(~)
 
I was wondering on how to deploy one of my Django app on GAE. I need few links
 
I don't think JS is going anywhere any time soon, it has all the network effects behind it
 
Melon :)
 
1:59 PM
I remember seeing (or maybe imagining?) LT working well with, for instance, flask server development, where you can see changes live
and I'm pretty sure LT is written in / originally for Clojure, too
don't know about how it visualizes other front-ends
 
@PeterVaro yeah, original language was Clojure: stateofcode.com/2013/05/…
rbrbrbrbrbrbrbrb
 
I have three Django apps which run on local server. Now I want to push it on cloud like GAE. Any advices ? I don't know where to start and I need to know from the scratch.
 
@d-coder not to be too rude but you literally just asked the same question a few minutes ago.
 
:( (walking out) rhubarb
 
2:17 PM
So your program depends on warnings being issued? That sounds like bad design, but OK, see my edit. — davidism 24 secs ago
 
man. This class is the worst.
 
2:39 PM
I feel good. I made a video :D
cbg all
@corvid what class?
 
user559633
@Kevin check your privileged axis.
 
@tristan cbg! How ya been?
 
user559633
cbg @GamesBrainiac good! working 12-16 hour days though
 
user559633
yourself? what's new?
 
@RobertGrant ahh, that's a totally new info to me, thanks for heads up!
 
2:44 PM
@tristan Pretty good man! Have a lot of free time recently, so watching anime :)
 
@Ffisegydd sorry, I just looked up what cv-pls meant. Should I delete my answer?
 
@metaperture up to you, might as well leave it in case it helps someone in the future :)
 
user559633
@metaperture no, you're fine :)
 
user559633
i actually didn't think the question was that bad
 
@GamesBrainiac chemistry
 
2:55 PM
@corvid Yea, thats a pretty useless one.
 
@GamesBrainiac Awesome, when can we see?
 
Yeesh, some people ...
 

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