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6:04 PM
I use tabs in vim - :tabn, :tabp - but only occasionally
> Well, 42.9% of developers use tabs. And 37.8% think know that group is wrong.
FTFY
holy heck, that's a ton of web developers out there
> Elected Official: 0.7%
I know I want my elected officials getting programming information from SO
The years since learning to code is the most interesting graph for me
 
oh they finally release the data, oh goodie. Guess I will browse through it when I get some free time.
> Gender non-conforming 0.9%
:D apache helicopter? :D
 
Heh. Women seem more likely to be Sysadmins or DevOps, probably because they're so used to putting up with crap on a daily basis anyway :P
 
@MooingRawr dude...
you so need to read some shit :P
 
soooo many web devs.... :\
 
I prefer "Information Superhighway Engineer"
 
6:14 PM
on a raise of more females than male coders :O That wasn't represented in my university :(
 
stackoverflow.com/insights/survey/2017/… well that's... I'm not sure if promising is the right word? It's interesting because there are more women on the fewer years
@Kevin I prefer "Plumber", because as we all know, the Internet is like a series of tubes.
> Although some developers start their careers as QA testers, the phrasing made it sound as if we saw QA as just a stepping stone, rather than a vital function and career option. QA professionals are our heroes (and QA engineers are 3.5% of our respondents this year!), and we apologize for not more carefully crafting our language.
 
Python on a rise of being used! yay :D
 
> However, the use of Python overtook PHP for the first time in five years.
 
Python being the most 'wanted' language :D yay us
 
The healing has begun :D
 
6:18 PM
> Python shot to the most wanted language this year (as in, the language developers want to use this year more than any other), after ranking fourth last year.
> Sharepoint was the most dreaded.
oh no..... I'm using share point right now :(
 
DSM
I don't know any active PHP programmers. Everybody does JS instead..
 
Being the most wanted language means we get the highest proportions of clueless questions from new users
Let's all switch to COBOL so our room can finally know peace
 
we also get job security and a decent amount of money from banks :D
 
We went from 1 PHP dev to 3. And two Python devs to uh... well, one and a contractor?
 
but on a down side, we are often going to be mistake for metal, instead of an animal...
 
DSM
6:21 PM
Outlier!! (said in the tone of "unclean! unclean!")
 
Well we could still be confused for kobolds if you permit mythological animals
 
> Redis was the most loved database
 
wow I didn't expect US coders to make that much more than say France.
 
Wait... isn't that a key-value store? ~_^
> Finally, more developers wanted to work with MongoDB this year than any other database.
As an interesting aside - does anyone else read the mongo daemon process as "mon-god", rather than "mongo-d"?
Who dreads working on the Raspberry Pi?
JS, SQL, and Python are the top tech for data science. Jupyter notebook, numpy/scipy, and Pandas, I am not surprised.
Wait, what? SQL, JS, and C# are the top three languages for desktop developers?
Visual Studio has a far more bizarre spread though - almost top 4/4, if vim weren't on all the boxen for Sysadmins
Hm. Apparently I need to level up - $99,000 for Python? I wonder if that's skewed because Instagram, Facebook, and Google?
 
Maybe not. The jobs around my town that works with Python I've seen from 65k to like 120k+
 
6:30 PM
@Kevin calling kobolds animals is offensive
 
wim
@WayneWerner yes
 
@Kevin Just because they try to summon Titan, doesn't mean they are mythical :D
 
> However, current job satisfaction is significantly lower for developers working in finance, retail/wholesale, and logistics.
There's a reason that I quit my first job that was in Logistics ;)
 
> Not employed, and not looking for work 5.4%
 
wim
the pay in France is abismal
 
6:31 PM
Rich people or stay at home parents?
 
wim
I used to live there
 
@MooingRawr students?
 
wim
it's one of the main reasons I left. I love the country, otherwise
 
@AndrasDeak oh right..... students..... :\
 
@MooingRawr And tech startup (m|b)illionaires.
 
6:32 PM
@Kevin so rich people for you :D
 
wim
even for a really successful company like Ubisoft , the salaries are insulting
if you all want to know about your salary and get an idea of it's fair or not, I recommend to checkout the website glassdoor
 
Rich people wear monocles and made their fortune selling steel to the government during the War. Tech billionaires wear blue jeans and made their fortune putting ads on an app that makes your face look like a dog.
 
wim
it's going to be much more reliable than the silly SO survey for that kind of thing
 
> Respondents who identify as women were more likely to agree or strongly agree that diversity in the workplace is important than respondents who identify as men. Men of White or of European descent were much less likely to agree or strongly agree that diversity is important than men of any other ethnicity.
mmmm not sure what to make of this.
 
White males are most likely to have no problem with the fact that the industry is full of white males. Seems logical.
 
6:39 PM
lol. I noticed that too
@wim a few years ago glassdoor did not have anywhere near the reliable data it has now and I just always ignored it. Very recently, however, probably due to more usage, it has some pretty good stats.
 
wim
I thought diversity means we have to accept people who use tabs
 
can't say I'm surprised. There's kind of a reason that our industry is full of clueless white males >_>
 
My office is 30% Russians, 30% Asians (east), 10% middle Asia, rest is non-russian white, what ever that means. If I were to guess...
 
@wim No. That's tolerance. Big difference
 
@wim let's not go that far
 
wim
6:40 PM
hell no, I'm a white space supremacist
 
@wim wait you use space?!?!?!?!?!?
 
I may not agree with your preferred indention character, but I will defend to the death my right to shame you for it
 
wim
whitespace. four of them
 
The Four True Whitespaces.
 
Tab master space.
 
wim
6:42 PM
speaking of whitespace
pycharm automatically trims them
I like that, but not when it's inside a triple quoted string, because that sometimes screws up my tests
 
I use StripWhitespace for vim
 
PEP 8 says to use spaces FWIW
 
wim
anyone have a pycharm workaround for that?
 
because ^^^
 
stackoverflow.com/insights/survey/2017/… 26.3% of people ..... I lost faith in ...
 
6:44 PM
@wim Well, you could use string formatting, a la {:<80} or something
 
wim
That part should read like 65.6% of people still pronounce GIF incorrectly
 
I don't know how I pronounce gif. Every time I say it out loud is a new adventure.
 
wim
@WayneWerner decent idea, will try it out
 
"Giraffics Interchange Format"
 
@wim I don't get it. It automatically removes whitespace inside quotes?
 
6:46 PM
@WayneWerner :D
 
wim
I wonder why there was no animated png format to make this whole debate just go away
 
I am having data based on user for the shopping trend he/she does. For example, when a particular user goes for the shopping and what product he/she buys. I need to predict the future date of their shopping and what product they are expected to buy in next shopping.
I am new to data science. Any help on how to start on this? What are sources/libraries I should be referring to?
 
@MooingRawr I must've seen that somewhere before, heh.
 
It irritates me when this happens:
def f():
    s = """foo
    bar
    baz"""
    print(s)
f()

#result:
#foo
#   bar
#   baz
 
wim
@idjaw if you have trailing whitespace on a line , it removes it when saving the file. that's good, but not when it's trailing whitespace inside a triple quoted string
 
6:47 PM
@MoinuddinQuadri pandas is probably the most popular Python library for that
not sure how much it can do predictions, I'm guessing that Numpy has some sort of trending
 
DSM
pandas by itself doesn't do predictions, though.
 
wim
@Kevin Yeah. Do you know the solution? it's builtin textwrap.dedent.
 
you need some machine learning library
 
@wim that's the thing...that doesn't happen to me inside quotes. That's weird
 
or manually create some data model for each user....
 
6:48 PM
Hi, I'm having an issue with multiprocessing and I was wondering if someone could tell me why this answer was downvoted.
 
"it creates a new instance of python whose only purpose is to call the new application." That doesn't sound right to me.
... Unless ps is a python script?
 
@WayneWerner I was taking a look at the Pandas. The document is really huge. I think it will take me around a week to familiarize myself with it.
 
probably because it's hackily specific to OSX when there are better ways to do it with the library
 
wim
I downvoted it because it had 3 downvotes already
 
@Tichigan also that sounds like the wrong way to close your child processes
 
6:50 PM
Thanks @Kevin. Can you tell me how you'd do it differently?
 
@DSM What are the ways to do predictions then?
 
@MoinuddinQuadri Yes. And probably more. You're talking about learning a complex new thing.
 
why not one of the other two answers?
 
@MoinuddinQuadri there are people who specialize in that field.... good luck learning it :D be one of those people
 
Heck if I know. I only know that it sounds dubious that subprocess creates a Python process just so it can call an entirely different process.
 
6:51 PM
Like the OP, I am calling a third party application so it seemed like their problem was the same as mine
 
wim
import pandas as 🐼
 
@MoinuddinQuadri You shouldn't expect to be able to do hard things with zero effort.
 
@wim won't that only work with swift?
 
@MooingRawr I'll try my best. I was inclined towards this from a very long time. Finally I got the opportunity. Though I have just 1 month to complete this task :P
 
> Simple things should be simple, complex things should be possible.
 
6:53 PM
@wim boo, invalid character as identifier :(
where's the sadpanda emoji?
 
I knew that ----------------------^
ever since I tried to assign to \N{pile of poo}
 
heh.
 
@WayneWerner, would you use one of the other answers to close child processes?
 
@Tichigan you are the OP.
oh wait...
 
^ :D there there Wayne :D
 
6:56 PM
no you linked to the OPs question. I see
lol
So what exactly are you trying to do, @Tichigan?
(I just saw the blue box around the answer name and I assumed that you were the OP and were wondering why your answer got downvoted into the ground)
 
@WayneWerner, I have a program called MIRA that I'm running through python os.system and calling with pool.map.
 
and... it doesn't close?
 
I think it's leaving a bunch of child processes open
 
You think? I know you need to check
 
Ok, yes, it is leaving a bunch of processes open
 
6:59 PM
because thinking that your computer is doing something and knowing are two different things
 
BUT, what I'm not sure about is whether that is where it fails
or if it is failing elsewhere and that's why the processes are being left open
 
DSM
Aww, I don't seem to be able to interleave conda reqs and pip packages in the same yml file-- I need to put all the pip ones at the end, breaking my clean topical clustering. :-P
 
well, if it's leaving child processes open then it means that you're either not properly terminating them, or you're not properly starting them in such a way that they become independent, if that's your goal.
 
This kind of thing is why I'm glad that the majority of my programs finish execution in under a minute. Zombie processes? Memory leak? No problem, just reboot.
 
just restart your container ;)
 
7:01 PM
@WayneWerner, I appreciate your criticisms because I need help. But I am new to this...so I need some guidance getting from pt. A to pt B
 
None of this "my program spends 24 hours reticulating splines and it gradually accumulates <insert incredibly limited operating system resource here>, which causes a segfault when all 256 of them get tied up without being freed" for me
 
Well, I don't have intimate knowledge of calling a bunch of things with os.system, because things I've read lead me to believe that it's not terribly reliable, and there are better options, like subprocess.
and I've read up a bit on Linux daemon processes so I know you have to do things like fork and then some kind of weird disown thing where you stop being a child process.
But I haven't implemented any of those things myself.
 
Hm...Ok.
I know that os.system with pool works with a subset of my data, so I'd hoped that I wouldn't have to re-configure everything
 
user2603796
Hello,
I had a question regarding python inheritance. Say I have a class Animal and it has a member self.specie...
now I make a class cat and inherit from animal class, and add another variable self.name
Suppose now i have a method in cat i.e. changeSpecie and I want to change the specie of cat. How should I access the parent class specie variable?
 
Guys who plays overwatch here?
Just wondering
 
7:10 PM
3
Q: Optional[Type[Foo]] raises TypeError in Python 3.5.2

Mark NottinghamThis code: #!/usr/bin/env python from typing import Optional, Type class Foo(object): pass class Bar(Foo): pass def test_me() -> Optional[Type[Foo]]: print("Hi there!") return Bar if __name__ == "__main__": test_me() will raise TypeError on 3.5.2: Traceback (most rece...

Can any typing experts or metaclass wizards think of a workaround for this? I think I've accurately explained the problem (and the obvious solution is to upgrade to 3.5.3), but it never feels great to tell OP "sorry, you're out of luck".
 
@FarazAhmad do you want to change the cat class to say like a dog class ? is that what you are asking ? Or are you thinking that your parent class of cat is telling the cat class it's a cat?
 
user2603796
say I want to mutate a cat into dog
 
user2603796
:D
 
if you have a separate cat and dog classes then you'd have to instantiate a new class instance
 
yeah, mutation can't change class
python is still strongly typed
 
7:12 PM
Technically, you can, but let's not go down that path.
 
hmm:P
 
user2603796
I mean I want to change the self.specie = "cat" into self.specie = "dog"
 
@FarazAhmad so do exactly that
 
user2603796
mutate in sense of biological mutation :) not python
 
there's no separation of parent and child properties
 
7:13 PM
What problem are you having? Assignment still works as expected.
 
your child inherits properties and methods from the parents as its own
 
user2603796
it will work? I was confused it might be creating a new local variable in child class
 
(but note that there's no specie, only species)
 
class Animal:
    def __init__(self, species):
        self.species = species

class Cat(Animal):
    def __init__(self, species):
        super(Cat, self).__init__(species)

fluffy = Cat("Siamese")
fluffy.species = "Persian"
print("Fluffy is now: {}".format(fluffy.species))
#result: Fluffy is now: Persian
 
@FarazAhmad why not just try it and find out?
 
user2603796
7:14 PM
I tried
 
Python has an interactive interpreter, it's not difficult.
 
You access instance attributes of a parent the same way you'd access any other instance attribute. There's no special syntax or anything.
 
it's the point of inheritence
 
user2603796
it was working just wanted to confirm. I hae the same code in my text editor as Kevin posted
 
Aside: I don't think that this is the best possible example of the principle, though, because having a "species" attribute is confusing in the first place since that information is already sort of represented by the class hierarchy. Hence the ruckus earlier about not being able to change an object's type.
 
7:16 PM
could just call it Animal and Pet
rather than animal and cat
still weird, but less weird
 
or breed instead of species
 
@Kevin I think the only fault in your example, is you calling a Persian cat 'fluffy'
 
persians aren't fluffy?
 
user2603796
how to post code?
 
wim
@AndrasDeak wrong
 
7:17 PM
yeah I know
davidism already noted
 
@FarazAhmad Paste it into the box, then press the "fixed font" button that appears next to "send"
 
I'll have to read into that later
 
Or, if it's very long, use pastebin.
 
That might have been a tad too long.
 
7:18 PM
please use a paste service such as dpaste.com to post large blocks of code
 
user2603796
okay, sorry
 
incidentally, please read our room rules: sopython.com/chatroom
 
@excaza Perhaps he means a persian wouldn't tolerate the indignity of such a name.
 
user2603796
 
user2603796
kindly check
 
7:19 PM
check...what?
does it work?
 
Looks fine to me. Runs fine for me. Here is your check: ✔
 
user2603796
my code
 
Why? yep, that's code
 
user2603796
to help me? :)
 
user2603796
@Kevin thanks
 
7:20 PM
@FarazAhmad you seem to have the wrong impression of the room. Please don't treat us as a debugging service.
Especially if you're going to be vague.
 
or bag
 
user2603796
I am sorry. It was not intended.
 
wim
>>> class Cat:
...     def speak(self):
...         print('meow')
...
>>> class Dog:
...     def speak(self):
...         print('woof')
...
>>> mittens = Cat()
>>> mittens.speak()
meow
>>> mittens.__class__ = Dog
>>> mittens.speak()
woof
 
I don't mind vague requests as long as the requester doesn't mind me giving them the least useful possible response which is still technically correct ;-)
 
wim
you can really wow your professor with this one
 
7:21 PM
Crazy!
 
uh oh
 
although I guess since Faraz doesn't actually need this, it's fine
 
@wim you just kevin'd me :(
 
@Kevin ISTM your advice is actually sopt on: this is bad design because you're storing species information both as instance variables and class information.
 
7:22 PM
 
wim
 
class CatDog:
    def speak(self):
        print('woofmeow')
 
I think Africa looks like a skull but none of my IRL friends will give a strong opinion either way. Maybe they don't think it's politically correct or something.
 
"meoof", shurely?
 
wim
class CatDog(Cat, Dog):
    def speak(self):
        super(...)  # blah blah
if africa looks like a skull then Zaire is in the right spot
(zaire.......get it?)
 
7:25 PM
@Kevin I don't see that...
 
DSM
@wim: :-|
 
wim
I'm ghana tell you another one
 
:-|
 
@wim Algeria dollar not to.
 
@wim Kenya stop :D
 
7:28 PM
@AndrasDeak Here, have a clumsy MS Paint reproduction.
 
If by skull, you mean an alien skull, sure....
 
Well you've got to round off the pointy bits naturally
 
@Kevin you've either been practicing way too much or you got a tablet to draw with.
 
wim
drove around there in an LPG powered sudan
 
@Kevin You know that thing when you can't see something, but once it's been pointed out to you you can never unsee it? This is definitely not like that.
 
wim
7:30 PM
mad! a gas car.
 
off topic: That anime related twitter machine learning question :|
 
Maybe a groot face with a huge posterior skull elongation
at least I know where you're coming from (I mean your reasoning, not geographically speaking), thanks
 
@davidism I consider myself about a month's worth of effort above the average adult that says "I can only do stick figures"
 
Africa looks like a horse though: i.imgur.com/OqX71fC.png
 
wim
7:33 PM
if you can't see the skull then you're in de nile
 
@MooingRawr that's a dragon
 
I can see that too :D
 
Whatever it is, it's pissed at Madagascar.
 
@MooingRawr Yeah, alright
Can we all agree that Great Britain is a floppy stuffed bunny though
 
@Kevin with wings ?
I see a lean bunny standing up with wings :\
 
7:37 PM
I don't think we need to concern ourselves with the current shape of Great Britain considering their imminent Scotland-emitting decay ;)
 
 
Hungary switched from "large piece of Wiener schnitzel" to "small piece of Wiener schnitzel" after WW I
 
@AndrasDeak As long as they stay part of the physical island, it's all the same to me
 
The idea of East Anglia as a cute fluffy bunnytail is inordinately amusing, speaking as someone who's been there.
 
Oh dear... Are they going to have to come up with a new name for the island? Americans already have enough trouble with the UK / England / Britain distinction
 
7:40 PM
Subgreat Britain
United But Not As United As Can Be Kingdom
 
wim
what else is in hungary besides budapest?
 
dog shit
 
wim
didn't rubik's cube come from there
 
what exactly do you mean?
 
Beautiful... Fjords?
 
7:42 PM
it did, rubik as in Ernő Rubik
No fjords, alas. Nor seashores.
 
wim
famous for anything else?
 
I thought fjords were further north
 
wim
when I was there I played chess in the baths with some naked old men
 
see the video :D
 
7:43 PM
There is no fjord in Hungary that is not considered one of the most beautiful fjords on earth.
 
true
 
wim
actually it was that same bath, with the big yellow building!!
 
I guess there are loads of minor things such as the rubik's cube that are Hungarian
@wim yup, Széchenyi bath
probably the same naked old men too
 
@AndrasDeak Dissolved kingdom of Lesser Britain and... well that's it.
 
@AnttiHaapala We'll always have Rockall.
 
7:45 PM
the ball-point pen is also a Hungarian invention
and the discovery of vitamin c
you're welcome
 
wim
do you know why there is seemingly so much pornography from hungary? (serious question)
 
We're dirty? And we have a really famous (at least locally) porn director, I guess he's good for the culture? I don't really know
 
and Hungarians are generally well-known for piracy, and since 90% of content is porn...
we were one of few select countries where Harry Potter or something similar movies were screened only ~a week later for fear of them being camripped the night of the premiere
@corvid 1 (TMI)
 
wim
budapest is beautiful city, I like the architecture
and hungarian music is awesome
 
7:50 PM
@wim especially at night
 
:36254595 Got that one during my first internship, during the introductory lunch outing. Ultimately, I failed to explain the appeal of collectible trading card games to my baby boomer boss.
To his credit he was willing to be persuaded.
 
wim
when I was walking thru this gallery gozsdu udvar
 
I should just make a sarcastic podcast that answers that question and send them a link to it
 
wim
some women there proposition me, even though I was quite clearly walking with my girlfriend at the time
 
@wim yeah that's a really tourist-friendly place
 
7:54 PM
> My childhood was typical, summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds, pretty standard really.
 
wim
they have no boundaries ...
 
without the girlfriend they might have tried to invite you to a bar where they'd have tried to overbill you by a factor of 10
then kind mountains of muscle would have escorted you to the nearest ATM in case you get lost on the way
(I'm not sure that happens in Gozsdu udvar, but there are hyenas like that in Váci street)
 
I think I'll just stay home.
 
beautiful city filled with all sorts of people ranging from very kind to ruthless scum
 
wim
hahaha, wow
 
7:57 PM
Google street view it is, then
 
wim
but it's so cheap that by factor of 10 it would seem like normal prices for me ... :D
 
granted, looking like a tourist will imply that you see a higher ratio of scum to regular citizens than what is representative of the society
@wim think 60k forints for a small bottle of champagne
 
wim
it was also hilarious how the bike share scheme is called "bubi bikes"
like bubi ... seriously guys?
 
@wim BUdapest BIcycle (BIcikli)
but yeah, it sounds silly:D
 
wim
ohhh it makes sense now you say it. I didn't realise.
 
7:59 PM
So... Budapest Bicycle Bikes. Is this like "ATM Machine"?
 

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