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11:00 AM
easy to get prescription and +-1/4D is not that much to wear it for no reason
of course PM has to clarify, I'm just saying:D
 
People cheated it by getting a prescription for colored lenses, so the manufacturers are now only creating those with more than .25 or less than -.25 so that those who cheat it would get worse eyesight that way (and hopefully no longer cheat)
^ That’s how I read it.
 
me too
 
Basically
 
@poke Prescriptions do have to come from a qualified optometrist, but I guess it wouldn't be too hard to lie to the optometrist when they're testing your eyes so that they think you're a little bit short- or long-sighted. It's a pretty dumb idea.
 
Hi all
 
11:01 AM
uhuh
Would be much easier to say that colored contact lenses would always involve tax and clear ones would not. Because those that are choosing different colors are always doing that for cosmetic purposes—regardless of the eye sight.
But maybe that’s just me…
 
I think that's the trouble of many systems in many places, they don't have any sort of game-theoretic backing to them
 
@AM.Firnas help Mohit Singh you mean?
 
Yeah I agree
"How would I abuse this?" is an important question
 
@RobertGrant it's much the same way as security, some people just don't think like that
 
11:04 AM
@vaultah wait, we've done this before, right?
Sep 15 at 9:43, by Martijn Pieters
@AM.Firnas: are you saying you are actually Mohit Singh?
a mod flag might be in order
 
yup
 
Some non-prescription sunglasses are actually +0.25D, which generally makes stuff in the middle distance a little sharper. It could give some people a headache with extended wear, but it won't bother most people. FWIW, I worked in disposable contact lens supply for 6 years, but I already knew a bit about optics before that, and I helped grind a 6" telescope mirror in my teens.
 
@JRichardSnape hah, yes, I feel that. Hence my suit was rather more snug than normal last week. Didn't affect the presentation any, although I was very delicate and making no sudden moves, lest my fundament be exposed to all and sundry.
 
@vaultah will you?
 
11:06 AM
@PM2Ring Do you have other taxes other than that?
 
@AndrasDeak yeah, I'll do it
 
No, He is seating beside me , he don't have access to chat room
 
Australia has tons of weird taxes
But so does a lot of counties
 
Because we only have two VATs. 7% on most things you can eat, and 19% on everything else, including medical supplies. So that makes cheating it a lot harder because you simply have those 19% anyway.
 
We only have one vat
We put poor people in it
 
11:07 AM
We have 27% vat *fist pumps*
it should be called WAT
 
So much so we had to declare staple foods such as bread vat-free, so people would eat it again knowing it didn't contain people
 
@Andras nice xD
 
@poke Sure. We have income tax and some property taxes. The family home is exempt from the property tax, but the land itself is taxed.
 
I meant on stuff you buy
 
If you disregard the error, you'll never learn to program :> — Andras Deak 9 secs ago
it made more sense with OP's original comment
the edited version makes me want to be less cheeky
 
user559633
11:11 AM
@AM.Firnas Read the room rules. I'm not warning you anymore.
 
@poke No, just the GST. There has been some talk in the last year or so of increasing it to, say 15%, but the public reaction has been so severe that it would be political suicide. The GST is a federal tax, but most of the money collected goes back to the states. The states that generate the most GST aren't too happy with this system because it means they're subsidising the poorer / smaller states.
 
user559633
Also, we already told you to read the documentation and spend a few minutes trying to understand what's happening 3 hours ago.
 
@PM2Ring I see. I would love to only have 15% here xD
 
user559633
I did the needful.
 
user559633
11:17 AM
Morning idjaw
 
user559633
Is it considered bad practice on SO to downvote bad questions that you found by reviewing a user's post history? On one hand, it seems like "well, if the content is low-quality...", but on the other, the mechanism of retrieving the content gives me pause.
 
Not if they deserve to be downvoted in the first place on their own, outside of the context of their bad neighbours.
 
It’s good practice to downvote bad stuff.
 
user559633
Got it; thanks
 
"This guy posts bad content, he's posted some new content, I should downvote it because of historical reasons" is bad, but "I should downvote it because it's also bad" is fine.
 
11:20 AM
If you disagree with his political ideology then you can dv that as well, of course
 
user559633
@RobertGrant Well duh. Or if he/she has a favorite Die Hard that isn't the first.
 
@tristan it's officially discouraged but go for it
 
Pfft.
 
it can easily lead to serial downvoting that gets reversed, even if all the stuff you downvote is crap
 
11:21 AM
Officially we have Documentation, so there you go.
 
I'm not arguing:P
 
user559633
I wish chat was a permission at > 100.
 
Agreed
 
although the answer there is "downvote the crap"
 
@tristan There are several Meta posts saying that you should not go through someone's history & downvote all their crap: it's tantamount to stalking, and it'll get reversed by the serial voting detector... if you do too many per day. :)
 
11:23 AM
this! <-- @tristan, I know you prefer authoritative sources:P
 
user559633
@PM2Ring FWIW, I only downvoted one of the users' posts because it was unredeemable. Not sure I agree that downvoting each deserving post is stalking or anywhere in that realm.
 
user559633
> If the answer is "yes" - if you're actually able to give each answer its due without prejudice... Then sure, that's legit.
 
user559633
sweet. shog says it's cool
 
user559633
thanks @AndrasDeak :)
 
I just downvote every question I read
 
user559633
11:29 AM
 
@tristan The system needs to be able to automatically detect serial voting in order to detect revenge downvotes and voting rings. But it'd be really hard for an automated system to distinguish between those cases and the cases where the targeted person's posts legitimately deserved the votes.
 
user559633
fizzy IRL
 
user559633
@PM2Ring Yeah, I can see that. I did a downvote + close vote combo as feedback to the user. Cheers.
 
@PM2Ring doesn't work all that well...
 
11:31 AM
On phone, someone else handle
 
user559633
@JibinMathew sopython.com/chatroom see rules
 
OTOH, there's nothing stopping you from posting constructive comments on a bunch of crap answers, and if they don't respond adequately, then downvote them. Just make sure you don't do too many per person, per day.
 
user559633
@Ffisegydd I got u, fam
 
so, when is the next room meeting
we're not rude enough to rude newbies
 
user559633
I think earliest would be mid-October to give people time to plan/be aware
 
11:38 AM
like those who come to the room and post a one-boxed java question as their greeting
 
user559633
lol <3 antti
 
user559633
trying not to have the first thing my girlfriend hears when she wakes up is me laughing at the idea of antti pencilling in "be ruder to rude newbies" on the meeting TODOs
 
I think we should change the room description...
 
i want everyone to do their damn work stop chatting here
11
 
so that it is apparent that we talk about Python and non-programming OT
 
user559633
11:40 AM
@AnttiHaapala I think those are both productive topics for a meeting
 
@PraveenRawat amazing
 
@PraveenRawat here, have a star
 
user559633
oh no, kevin is going to log in and not see his name on the right. won't somebody please think of the kevins? ;__;
 
Solved.
 
11:41 AM
i am boss
 
user559633
clever girl guy robert
 
yuh huh
 
What fresh hell is this?!
15 kB/s
I think I've travelled back in time to the 80s
 
have you tried turning it off and on again?
 
15kb/s... have you tried upping the baud rate of your modem?
 
11:43 AM
I'm not sure if the 80s had sufficient self-righting capabilities. Worried that if I restart it, I might brick it
 
hey everyone lets fight
 
user559633
jesus christ, we're forming stars faster than a nebula
 
I can already see davidism looking all :-|
 
(I remember getting a copy of Populous on PC in the 80s that had a 15 page manual, and a 30 page accompanying manual that explained how to play it over the network.)
 
user559633
waiting for fizzy to come back and say "no idiot, that's not at all how stars work"
 
11:45 AM
@tristan which is one per 100 years...
 
that's damned fast
 
So many low quality stars. How far have we fallen?
 
user559633
@IntrepidBrit falling stars
 
@IntrepidBrit shooting star reference?
tips hat
 
user559633
m'hivemind
 
11:47 AM
I uh. tugs forelock
That seems to be the right response. They definitely did that in the 80s, right?
 
@PraveenRawat Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Python Room!
 
user559633
Yeah, the .war room is Java
4
 
Yes. I approve of that joke.
 
user559633
@RobertGrant yes
 
You...should wear big glasses and grow a mustache, tristan. For no reason.
 
11:51 AM
which one was first, python or .egg
 
user559633
@RobertGrant How big we talking?
 
Heh... Robert told tristan to grow a pair.
 
creepy
 
user559633
we good?
 
11:57 AM
Amazing
 
I think that image has been doctored
You can tell because the 'tache isn't pixelated
 
@tristan The source of your icon is Commander Keen, right?
I remember having found a few episodes of that in a floppy laying around...
 
morning!
hey tristan
 
user559633
@ByteCommander it is!
 
user559633
hi! :)
 
user559633
 
user559633
@IntrepidBrit I'll get to work on growing one.
 
Wise
 
user559633
 
@tristan Or not… :/
 
user559633
Not available in your country? :( caspiantheband.bandcamp.com/track/echo-and-abyss ?
 
12:08 PM
oh Caspian! Nice
 
@tristan That one will work, thanks!
 
user559633
@poke cheers :)
 
user559633
It's been gray and rainy all morning, so it's looking like a post-rock day.
 
if you want gray & rainy day postrock, the mogwai soundtrack to les revenants is just the thing
 
it's getting colder in the great north
 
user559633
12:09 PM
queued up!
 
user559633
@idjaw yeah, it's even getting cold here in the "eh, alright north"
 
unclear stackoverflow.com/questions/39723600/… But mostly I'm just posting it for the opening sentence: "i am trying to create a secure password system with a base 64 encoded password." :)
 
Mogwai is great. Also adding God speed you black emperor
 
apparently post-rock and post-punk are two different genres
always thought they are related/similar
 
they might be as different as rock and punk?:P
 
12:15 PM
> The post-rock sound incorporates characteristics from a variety of musical genres, including ... as well as post-punk
 
multiple inheritance
 
I'm not very knowledgeable in rock music :P
anyway, my favourite post-punk band is Interpol, which should match the suggestions above
 
Didn't even realize Interpol is considered post-punk
 
Maybe not :D
oh lol, post-punk and post-punk revival are different too
 
12:33 PM
Today is a work from home day. I'm fed up with construction traffic
 
@PM2Ring That's pretty fantastic. I remember when I learned the difference between encoding and encryption
also when I learned that our Squid proxy was using basic authentication with our Window password, which means that everyone in the company was transmitting their password in cleartext across the network (the squid proxy wasn't https)
 
morning everyone
 
morning cabbage @corvid
 
@WayneWerner I hope you used that knowledge for evil
 
@WayneWerner I don't expect newbies to be security experts, but I do expect someone with a little bit of programming ability to understand that encryption should be hard for an attacker to break. :) As for the Squid password thing: it should be ok to transmit the passwords in plaintext , you're all colleagues, right? :)
 
12:44 PM
They also seem to not care about the advice being given and just want to use encoding :)
 
@IntrepidBrit There was so much irony happening there. I really did want to harvest everyone's password just as a PoC... but attempting to do something that was totally possible was a fireable offense.
 
user559633
i just want to stop people looking at the password in the code, i dont care about it being ultra secure — Ridjex 1 hour ago
 
@PM2Ring I shared the fact that they were transmitted in plaintext with all my colleagues that bothered to listen
 
user559633
to some degree, i get this.
 
@Ridjex if you don't your password to be in the code put it into an environment variable or config file insteadWayne Werner 17 secs ago
the correct way to handle that problem
 
user559633
12:47 PM
Yeah, I mean, that works. Depends who you're trying to prevent from seeing the password.
 
indeed
 
I've got an algorithmic problem
 
indeed?
 
I need to interleave elements from 2 lists...
 
@WayneWerner Well that seems rubbish
 
12:51 PM
I forget the wording but it was basically, "Any attempt to discover credentials <or do any kind of hacking> will result in termination"
 
@AnttiHaapala So what's wrong with zip in a list comp?
 
>>> a = [1,2,3]
>>> b = ["a", "b", "c"]
>>> [i for x,y in zip(a,b) for i in [x,y]]
[1, 'a', 2, 'b', 3, 'c']
 
here come Antti's remaining 15 requirements
 
I have a nagging feeling there's an easier way but it's too early in the morning to optimize
 
A and B; they're actually ordered sets; I need to produce ordered set C that contains the elements of B in the original order, somehow smartly interleaved those elements in A - B...
 
12:52 PM
Hi all new here
 
Somebody in a different time zone please deal with this
 
@galfisher cbg
 
cabbage @galfisher - you probably want to check out the room rules to the right there --->
 
and I am not even sure how the smart ordering would be...
 
I'm closing Antti as no MCVE
 
12:54 PM
@AndrasDeak no, too broad
 
rhubarb, be back late:)
 
actually what I am trying to do is store branch ordering of a tree in a list, and trying to merge them in a way that would make sense most of the time...
 
Morning cabbage.
 
user559633
cbg
 
@galfisher hey!
 
12:55 PM
so if the tree depicted by A had some new leafs that didn't exist in B the branches would be ordered so that they made sense.
idk.
my head explodes.
 
@MorganThrapp morning cbg to you too
@AnttiHaapala can you not make a new tree?
or would that bork the ordering?
 
@WayneWerner I am making a new tree, but it needs to be a merge.
 
@Kevin There's no need to unpack & re-pack: [i for t in zip(a,b) for i in t]
 
so if my lists are ['F', 'U', 'B', 'A', 'R'] and ['M', 'U', 'L', 'A', 'N'] then any algorithm that would result say in ['M', 'F', 'U', 'B', 'L', 'A', 'R', 'N'] is one perfectly acceptable ordering...
 
@AnttiHaapala Why are you trying to store trees in lists? Why can't you use an actual tree structure?
 
1:00 PM
but the ordering of the first list doesn't matter really at all...
I have a tree, the tree is in an adjacency list, it doesn't store branch ordering.
I just need a quick hack to store branch ordering
it doesn't make it any easier to merge 2 trees
because even then you'd need to use the same algorithm for each branch
 
guys, it's finally fall, and all is right with the world
 
\o/
 
@corvid Are you an Autumn-lover as well?
 
It's all about Autumn. Best time of year.
 
YES!
I love you guys even more
 
1:07 PM
Autumn is fantastic. Too bad it only last like, a month, it's the best season
 
best season ever
 
user559633
Fall/Spring best seasons.
 
AUTUMN SUCKS
 
Early fall is the only time I can wear my favorite hoodie because it is stuffed with sentimental value which makes a quite poor insulator
 
1:07 PM
Autumn > Winter > Spring > Summer
 
Can someone remove Antti as a RO please?
kthxbai
 
user559633
He lives on the Ice Map, so his Summer is our Fall weather.
 
user559633
Autumn > Spring > Summer > Winter
 
good call...good call
 
this is how people think autumn in finland is like...
yes... this is from finland...
and in autumn
 
1:09 PM
that's gorgeous
 
user559633
^
 
I assume northern European autumn is a lot like those ecological disaster movies where the ocean freezes solid
 
I wouldn't mind walking through that every morning to work
 
this is how I feel autumn in Finland
so that's why
 
@AnttiHaapala cute but I imagine the colors are exaggerated
 
1:10 PM
(just some random pic from google again)
@khajvah nope
 
user559633
 
user559633
and this is a picture of a duck. unrelated.
 
patiently waits for advice
 
but it is just 2 weeks out of 3 months
 
random - I just checked for my work pass before leaving my office desk to head upstairs to my kitchen.....
 
1:12 PM
It's funny how I can build a fully functioning asynchronous web application but I'm not too sure how html img tags work.
 
@Ffisegydd Try using Jquery
 
Eww.
 
@khajvah for example the flag of Canada, one week ago the maple leaves here were pretty much exactly that colour here.
anw
anyone have a good suggestion to my merge algorithm :D
 
too lazy to scroll up. Does order matter?
stupid question...I'm assuming yes
nvm me....
 
:D
 
1:16 PM
@AnttiHaapala lazy way out...did you check the SO-machine here and here
 
17
Q: Interleave different length lists, elimating duplicates and preserve order in Python

Chaos_99I have two lists, lets say: keys1 = ['A', 'B', 'C', 'D', 'E', 'H', 'I'] keys2 = ['A', 'B', 'E', 'F', 'G', 'H', 'J', 'K'] How do I create a merged list without duplicates that preserve the order of both lists, inserting the missing elements where they belong? Like so: ...

hmm
 
@Ffisegydd btw, are you using a specific framework or building everything yourself?
 
@khajvah Angular + Angular Material
With Express backend
 
ew node.js
 
And a mongo database. Because I'm mean.
 
1:17 PM
"img tags work"
 
hahahahahahahahahahaha you write in Django.
 
they have the 'src' attribute/property that is set to an url.
 
lol
I am ewing myself too
 
that's it
 
@Ffisegydd You must make good salary btw.
 
1:18 PM
@Antti it was relative paths that I had wrong, fixed now.
 
I'd get a raise if I stopped doing anything and instead managed myself, I guess
 
node.js+mongo+some_front-end are high paid
 
@AnttiHaapala Same here with me :(
 
I make the money I make.
 
user image
5
going to try that now
 
1:22 PM
good...goooood
 
cabbage all
 
cbg @davidism
 
It was 103°F here yesterday. Basically this walking outside:
 
o/
 
goodness. where are you?! Death Valley?
 
1:25 PM
is it even hotter on summer?
 
I'm in San Diego. Definitely in the top few hottest days this year.
 
I wish I enjoy summer and its usual correlation, heat
 
Is that hot? I don't speak American units.
 
39c in proper units
 
jee...
 
1:27 PM
as somebody who usually melts in 40C+ on summers, I unerstand you.
 
Oh yeah that's quite hot.
 
hmm
i need a 3-way merge
 
nice British understatement there.
 
cold
(in sauna)
 
 
1:30 PM
haha
I never really watched that show. But every time I read a caption from it, I have a good laugh.
 
It's an interesting window into blue-collar midwest suburban culture. I hated it as a kid because I couldn't relate. I found Hank Hill so painfully square. But now it's endearing.
Keep that beautiful innocence, Hank.
 
Django expert? I want to loop simply in template over a number. According to a 2011 SO post it's not supported
 
Ninja SOing there.
 
@davidism i'm talking about just writing a number into the template.
 
1:39 PM
@davidism it has the counter, but I guess django doesn't allow you to do a range...
because it is tshi.
 
{% for i in range(5) %}
<p>
Strongly Disagree
</p>
{% endfor %}
Psuedocode example ^
 
@clickhere do you see why an MCVE is a good opener?
 
138
Q: Numeric for loop in Django templates

LevHow do I write a numeric for loop in a Django template? I mean something like for i = 1 to n

do as they say...
or place a bounty there
 
asking for a new canonical answer!
 
1:41 PM
@AnttiHaapala yeah, i saw that one. soo hacky though
 
so place a bounty there: 50 rep.
 
@davidism so much purple
 
I don't use django templates at all, they're utter tshi
I use tonnikala.
 
something like that would be doable? Any downsides?
 
You can plug in Jinja to Django natively now. Do yourself a favor.
 
1:43 PM
django_tonnikala :D:D (that absolutely no one uses, but hey I didn't do it :D)
 
@davidism didn't know that - that's cool
Now I can transfer my application that I created on Pyramid and moved to Flask, to Django!
 
@RobertGrant I know you're just trolling
 
You're right. I need SQLA on Django first.
 
... but I still can't ignore those feelings of disgust at that idea...
 
I always find this error funny: TypeError: update() takes at least 2 arguments (2 given)
 
1:45 PM
Cabbage
 
o/
 
@idjaw which update
I guess I got something like that fixed... the error message
recently
 
@AnttiHaapala non-standard update. This is an update from an API
I knew my error...just the message is always a good laugh
 
which definition did that havE?
TypeError: foo() takes 0 positional arguments but 2 were given
 
1:49 PM
def update(self, user, name=None, domain=None, project=None, password=None,
               email=None, description=None, enabled=None,
               default_project=None, **kwargs):
where user is an instance of User
my mistake was I forgot to pass object, and I was giving name="bob" and an extra kwarg
 
ah
a sec
python 2? :D
trololololo
 
let me check actually hold on
( i have to support both, so have to see what base this is using :P)
a ha! yes! 2.7.10!
 
yes, fixed in 3.1 already...
but there was another case that I got fixed recently
 
I'm glad you asked actually....I'm going to move this venv to py3
I completely forgot :)
 
seriously,
there was just another bug recently that we had that python 3 was a life-saver
exception chaining!
in Python 2, we'd have a completely meaningless AttributeError on None
in python 3 ... it was chained.
 
1:56 PM
Anybody know any good example of traits code, or learning materials on that subject, please?
 
@AnttiHaapala oh yes. I'm aware of that one. Actually really helped me a lot when I read about that one.
 

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