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9:00 PM
in German it is different. the W letter signals the English V sound, and V then is pronounced as F.
 
But you can make both sounds when asked, can't you?
 
so at least they're mostly doing it consistently wrong.
yes.
naturally
 
That's what I meant by more mental than physical.
 
but it is easy to make the mistake unconsciously
 
Yes.
 
9:01 PM
one just thinks that "I take this sound from this box"
 
Nope.
Language is not computer language!
Even if Python has names.
 
but the box says [v] in Finnish :P
 
Is there any difference between dialects regarding v/w?
 
no, not really, I'd say.
 
OK.
You did say the position within a word makes a difference?
Is that consistent?
 
9:04 PM
pretty much. I am not a linguist though :D
 
OK OK.
Do bat and bet sound very different to you?
 
Of course they do sound somewhat similar to an Englishman, but he can and will distinguish between them.
OK.
To a Dutchman, they sound extremely similar.
 
but we have a/ä/e distinction so it is just normal to us :P
 
Ah OK.
 
9:06 PM
but perhaps in your case they're in the same box :P
 
Do you find the two th sounds...inconvenient?
Yes, they're very much in the same box.
They're both e, like various other sounds.
To many people, the th sounds sound odd.
 
father is close to a, bat a bit closer to ä and bet clearly closest to Finnish e, so np there
in received pronunciation :P
yeah th and th are difficult to Finns...
even one of them :P
then using voiced and unvoiced ... it is like magic :P
but then we don't have a box for either of them
 
RP foëva!
@AnttiHaapala Neither do most languages.
And at least the English also sort of drop it in the sixteenth century.
 
I think this excerpt from Wikipedia about allophones is good: "Native speakers of a given language usually perceive one phoneme in that language as a single distinctive sound, and are "both unaware of and even shocked by" the allophone variations used to pronounce single phonemes.
 
user559633
In case anyone is interested, I'm going to be streaming for hours tonight. Probably going to get going in about an hour and a half
 
9:11 PM
@tristan I am working, doesn't it look like it? :D
 
You mean used in their own native accent?
 
@tristan what what what?:)
oh nevermind, in an hour and a half:(
I'll try to be in bed by then
 
@Cerberus I guess that means that they're shocked when they find out that what they consider a single phoneme can actually be several in some other languages.
 
Ah OK, yes.
I remember when I was talking to a Spaniard about Navara.
Which to me sounds the same as Navarra.
He had no idea what I was talking about.
 
like "ah I didn't even consider someone would distinguish between "bet" and "bet"" "they sound the same to me"
 
9:14 PM
well the Spanish pronounce all sorts of things weird
 
Yes.
@AndrasDeak His pronunciation didn't sound weird to me; I just didn't distinguish between to sounds that were very different for him.
 
took me a while to realize why some colleagues pronounce "general" as "yeneral"
 
Huh.
Where were they from?
 
@AndrasDeak that sounds like swedish
 
Spain:P
 
9:16 PM
But in Spain g is more like /x/?
 
I might be confusing the specific example, but it was g pronounce as y
@Cerberus no, that's written j?
or maybe g in other neighbourhoods
 
J, or g before i/e, or x.
Gente, Mexico, Juan.
X might sound slightly different (but similar to my ears).
 
it's probably convolved with my own Hungarian bias and lack of necessary sounds
 
well, Finns have been quite good at bastardizing words...
taking words from swedish verbatim, then pronouncing them in Finnish way <3
 
You mean you heard it as y, while they intended it like /x/?
Or perhaps it was some South-American accent where g is different?
@AnttiHaapala Oh, we all do that!
 
9:18 PM
or perhaps the g is the gh as in Vietnamese
 
My father pronounces hamburger as in RP. We have always ridiculed him for that.
We pronounce it as if it were Dutch.
How do you pronounce it?
 
In Finnish much easier :P
 
We don't have /g/ in Dutch, so we pronounce the g like /x/.
 
both meanings are hampurilainen :P
 
Haha is that hamburger?
 
9:19 PM
no rp.
 
Hi :) I have:
 
yeah, Hamburg is Hampuri
 
train_error = 1-numpy.sum(n)/len(n)
 
Ah OK.
 
But I want to take the sum of just the first column.
How do I do that with numpy?
 
9:20 PM
In Dutch, the Dutch word for "someone from Hamburg" is also Hamburger, so it's easy to pronounce the English word that way too.
 
Is it:
train_error = 1-numpy.sum(n[,:1])/len(n)?
 
(If I knew the answer, I'd help you, but I hardly know Python, alas.)
 
lolol
 
>>> a = numpy.array([[1,2],[3,4]])
>>> a
array([[1, 2],
       [3, 4]])
>>> a[0,:]
array([1, 2])
 
hey @Nick... :P
 
9:22 PM
lolol
 
@Cerberus and this wasn't only Python but Numpy
 
sup dude
 
ah column you mean :P
 
I didn't want to bore the Matlab chatroom with my Python questions haha
 
there's an hour worth of discussion history in that matlab room:P
@Nick good:D
 
9:23 PM
@AnttiHaapala Oh, dear...
Who's Numpy?
 
>>> a[:,0]
array([1, 3])
@Cerberus what's numpy
 
I don't know; you mentioned her.
 
Who's on first?
 
On what?
 
@Cerberus looooooooooooooooooooool.
Numpy is a library. Short for Numerical Python or something.
 
9:25 PM
@Nick the first column, as Antti said, is n[:,0]. If you want to sum that just call either np.sum(n[:,0]) or n[:,0].sum().
 
Ah, I see.
Is she good?
 
of course n[:,:1] is equivalent, but looks confusing and silly
@Cerberus real good!
 
Great.
I will remember her.
 
once you try, you'll never forget
 
Good, good.
I'll keep her in mind in case I need to cool off.
 
9:26 PM
@AndrasDeak let's not go there :P
 
@Cerberus don't google numpy.einsum then
@AnttiHaapala go where?:P
I'm sorry, my being Foreignese prevents me from understanding your subtle hints.
 
it's a language barrier thing
 
This is what I get.
Hawt.
 
okay
 
9:29 PM
I also got a picture of Einstein.
 
hmm... @Nick do you really want to divide sum(n) by len? Len in python gives you the length of a list/tuple, which is the number of rows in case of a 2d array
you should either use n.size for the number of elements or n.shape[0] to explicitly use the number of rows
and follow-up: are you sure you want to divide by the same number when you're only summing the first column?
 
:P
yeah perhaps calculate the average of the column?
n[:,0].mean()?
 
it's a bit tricky; I believe some columns are not like the others
 
(cf. history in matlab room)
I admit I didn't pay much attention
it's about training and testing and smells very machine learningy, so I stood back:)
 
9:34 PM
Ouch.
 
9:50 PM
Wow, I think I've actually written an answer on SO.
baffles(self)
 
that happens to the best of us
 
Not to me! I'm not a coder! I know nothing.
 
I know that feel @Cerberus
 
Really?
But you have like 1000 reps!!
 
define "coder"
@Cerberus >3k
 
9:56 PM
Someone who knows how to write computer code.
@AndrasDeak I looked it up before posting that, but anything over 1000 dazzles me too much.
 
I just started being active on SO about 3 weeks ago. before that I had 1 rep. and it all started because I had a problem and googled it, and there was no answer. then I figured out a solution, and decided "I guess I should answer this question I found since no one else did"
 
That is a great attitude!
 
yeah, Karin is like "oh what the hell, I might as well get 200 daily rep starting from now" :P
 
and then you got hooked.
 
I believe answering your own questions is encouraged, if they result in useful information.
 
9:58 PM
rep should be illegal
 
it's the gamer attitude within me haha
 
Dangerous!
 
@Cerberus yes, there's even support for that in the UI
 
For me it's more like...CAB.
 
well it's more like...I never really had the confidence to think I could have anywhere near the knowledge or authority to answer peoples' questions, especially on a site I relied on to always give me answers
but then I realized there were actually quite a few questions I could answer once I looked at a few tags
 
9:59 PM
Compulsive Avoiding Behaviour: I'm putting off posting the question I really want to ask.
 
so why not start giving back to the place that has helped me for so many years? :)
 
Good!
I seem to be somehow doing the same, but my answers are not great. Just...better than nothing for the OP, I hope, because he did't get any answers at all.
 
my highest daily reputation was 705 :P
 
bounty powa
 
@Karin yeah about time you start paying back!
 
10:01 PM
I know I know! ;-;
honestly though I also realized it was a great way to try to just learn more
 
Wow.
 
@Karin at some point you will have that strange feeling...
you've got a problem... then you google for an answer...
 
if I don't know the answer to something, that's just an opportunity to learn something new. so you either help someone or learn something =D
 
@Karin I started learning python by anwering numpy/matplotlib questions:)
 
you find the answer on stackoverflow, it solves your problem perfectly, you feel very happy that someone actually spent the effort to write that answer...
 
10:02 PM
that's not necessarily the best strategy though:D
@AnttiHaapala written by Martijn Pieters
 
and since you have got some votes remaining, you want to give some reputation to that author... so you reach for the ^ up arrow and click it... and a red popup appears:
"you cannot upvote your own answers."
DANG.
 
@Karin That's excellent, provided that you know where to look and how to apply the information!
 
lol antti XD
 
@AnttiHaapala Haha, I've had that happen once or twice, when I only quickly scanned the text I found.
 
it has happened at least three times to me already.
 
10:04 PM
oh yeah I keep forgetting
yesterday, by Andras Deak
@AnttiHaapala you're the coolest kid around:P
 
I am not sure if I should go see a doctor.
 
I don't keep count.
 
:PP
 
As I don't have fingers.
 
@AndrasDeak I am not. I am a Finn and as I've said so many times (= 1), us Finns have 2 distinct kinds of humour: self-deprecating humour and self-deprecating humour disguised as hubris.
 
10:07 PM
(also, @Antti, a company belonging to the primary government-friendly oligarch has bought a huge media company; one that happens to publish the leading newspaper among left-wing peeps)
 
well "those pesky left-wingers are going to get better journalism now". Nothing to see here, move along.
 
Oh, what newspaper is that?
Are there enough other progressive newspapers left?
 
Hmm...although the media company being bought is denying this, so maybe it's just a rumour. Like, as always when it seems that shady shit is going down
 
Why didn't Soros buy it?
Oh!
Scary.
 
@Cerberus this is Hungary that we've talking about...
 
10:10 PM
one called Népszabadság
 
hey that's a good idea.
soros should buy the hungary.
 
lol:D
too many people claim that he already did
 
I guess he doesn't care though...
 
@AnttiHaapala So...
 
Whenever something happens, "it's because of Soros". Whenever somebody disagrees with the government, they are a shill of Soros. Whenever it's not Obama behind them, of course. Then again, Obama is just a shill of Soros.
depending on who you ask:D
 
10:12 PM
"This is an exaggeration, but it is true that Fidesz, before it became a party, received generous and sustained financial support from Soros’s Open Society Foundation."
 
yup
 
is this true too ^? :D
nice <3
 
Orban himself had some scholarships, he probably wouldn't have a Western diploma without him, or something
I'll be honest and admit that I don't follow our Beloved Leader's biography too closely:P
 
>
1989: 460 thousand
1991: 327 thousand
1993: 305 thousand
1994: 300 thousand[1]
1995: 285 thousand
1998: 225 thousand[11]
2000: 203 thousand
2002: 195 thousand
2003: 172 thousand[7]
2009: 99,446[2]
2010: 70 thousand
2011: 63 thousand
2013: 46 thousand
 
10:13 PM
Worrying!
 
at least the Finnish "Close borders!" movement ("Orban is medicine") complains that Soros is funding mass immigration :D
 
the real issue is that some government-independent (formerly government-friendly) papers have been put out of business; and some new (faux-private) organs are being grown on public money to compete with the private sector
same thing with TV, superficially private channels are being bought by a few oligarchs and used to spew blatant propaganda (not blatant enough, of course)
same for national media
I didn't watch the Olympics, but I'm told that the broadcast went like this: 10 minutes sports, then 10 minutes intermission about 1. everything goes fine and well in Hungary 2. immigrants are coming to rape our women 3. omg terror -> continue 10 minutes sports
 
Hungary should join Turkey :D
 
tell me about it:D
it's horribly ironic that with our history with Turkey and Russia, and the supposedly nationalist (chauvinist) stance of our government, these are the countries closest to the heart of our leaders:D
 
gotta link this again :P
 
10:19 PM
@AnttiHaapala oh that was great:D
 
works perfectly in Finnish too.
 
anyway, rep on SO and stuff:P
 
so @Cerberus are you a linguist?
(I'll try to resist the urge to ask about your cunning if the answer is yes)
 
@AndrasDeak I have not gone through a linguistics programme at university, but I did do the linguistic branch of my programme, which was Greek and Latin, so I know a bit about language. Why?
@AndrasDeak That's terrible. Brexit was caused by it...
@AnttiHaapala Hah, they should rejoin.
 
10:23 PM
@Cerberus curiosity, and I feel it's my responsibility to at least fake an attempt to make this discussion less off-topic:D
 
Mmm I should think linguistics was quite far removed from Python!
 
I saw your buttload of rep in language-related sister sites, and you already stated that you're not a programmer:)
 
@Cerberus they will when Austria chooses the right president :D
 
What's your background?
Yes, like languages!
 
@Cerberus I'm a physicist
 
10:25 PM
@AnttiHaapala That would be nice, I guess!
@AndrasDeak Ah, impressive.
 
but unlike most of the other physicists here, I just dabble in programming
 
Hmm.
But you have over 1000 reps!
 
yes:P
I dabble a lot:D
or a little for a long time
 
Hehe.
 
user559633
11:09 PM
@AndrasDeak if not, starting now (twitch.tv/0xkeen) :)
 
user559633
actually 15m, beer run
 
@tristan what ya streaming? Although it is past midnight so was considering bed in a mo'...
 
@tristan thx:)
 
user6568562
@tristan Where is it ! ?
 
user559633
11:28 PM
@randomhopeful twitch.tv/0xkeen starting now :)
 
@NinjaPuppy (I did not know, you've changed your name lately..) have you watched all the prequels, minisodes, tardisodes and other nice extra stuffs (deleted scenes, never-made-scenes, etc.) of DW?
because I just found at least 60 of those few minutes long footages the other day, and I have to admit, it brought me fine moments, and great nostalgic feelings..
 
cbg @PeterVaro
 
cabbage to there too!
 
11:43 PM
ahoy hoy
 

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