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3:00 PM
Say you're at work one day and you think "Hey, I'd really like to cuddle a cat right about now", you get on your Kitter(TM) app and you order a cat to your current location for 20 minutes time.
We then send a drone to a nearby house, kidnap their cat, and have the drone deliver it directly to you.
 
is there a retainer in case you keep the cat?
 
Ha, yeah, in case.
 
> Unity: Trump won't die on my cactus. Why?
 
The cat will bite you after 20 minutes and run back to it's master
 
3:01 PM
Oh SO, I love your question titles.
@BhargavRao Wait, you get a whole 20 minutes before you get bit? What is this wizardry?
 
@MorganThrapp The kittens are trained by His Highness, Fizzygood the great and hence won't bite. Fizzardry not Wizardry
(good the great sounds funny :P)
 
Don't be daft. We don't train the cats. We kidnap them and drop them off. We make no guarantees that you'll get a nice cat unless you subscribe to Kitter Gold.
If you subscribe to Kitter Gold, you'll get one of our trained, cute, and fluffy kittens delivered from our nationwide Kitter Distribution Centres.
 
Oh, God! Fizzy what's this? I thought you'd personally train them :(
 
Why? The cats aren't employees, they're contractors.
We provide no training or perks.
 
Cabbage
 
3:05 PM
But if they refuse a certain amount of petting, they get fired.
 
Oh, Yeah. That sounds like a new start up, TrainKitties
@HEADLESS_0NE cbg
 
@MorganThrapp Yeah, plus we encourage them to not work with other feline-based startups.
 
makes sense
 
@Ffisegydd Like Pyr?
 
Yeah exactly.
We're looking into the idea of cat-sharing in the future, where you share your cat with random people from the internet for short periods of time.
 
3:09 PM
cat2go
 
Whilst we make every effort to ensure our cats are vetted, if they scratch you we can't be held responsible.
 
airkitty
 
Kinder?
 
kindr
 
Kittagram
 
3:10 PM
I thought Kindr was the app that lets you choose a child to adopt
 
AirTinder for pets is a seriously missed opportunity
 
I thought Kindr was the app that allowed you to rate toy-filled chocolate eggs that are banned in the US.
 
Is that where you breath left to select someone's cat?
I tried to get my GF to smuggle me some when she came back from the UK, but apparently if you get caught it's 5k per egg.
 
ok kindr is off the table
it's ridiculous that kinder is banned in the states.
I still don't get that
 
3:11 PM
I'm going to go home and have a kinder egg now.
 
I have them at home now. Because I have children. And children love kinder
 
Go enjoy it with your milkshake cocktail and your healthcare.
rable rable.
 
And I'm going to take the toy, build it, take a picture of it to mock you with, then throw it away.
 
Woo healthcare!
 
eating my kinder in my doctor's office waiting to get a free check-up.
sorry america.
 
user559633
3:12 PM
i got a bottle of whiskey and a set of pliers, why do i need insurance
 
user559633
oh wait, because america is corrupt and i have to pay money to the government if i don't pay money to a private corporation
 
No idea what that is but it sounds bad
 
we have something called a "welcome tax". When you move the government charges you a percentage of the cost of your property. There is no explanation about why or where this money goes. But it is some kind of "administrative" fee to move.
 
user559633
in america, if you don't have insurance, you have to pay a penalty if the government thinks you can or should afford it.
 
the person who introduced that tax is named "Bienvenue", which translates to welcome.
 
3:16 PM
seriously?
 
@tristan I tried your advice from last night but it seems like an uphill battle for even a sliver in change. Oh well, I may get a little more than if I kept my mouth shut and didn't argue for it.
 
user559633
Bienvenue au Government Corruption
 
please assume the position
 
SO spends 168 hours everyday processing SQL queries O_o
 
They also have their entire db in ram
 
3:18 PM
@idjaw it's called stamp duty in the uk
 
user559633
@Programmer When negotiating for salary in most jobs, always ask for a number just over the next logical rounding point. e.g. if you want 10k, ask for 15k instead of 20k, as the next rounding point will be outright rejected, but most companies will just meet you at the "compromise"
 
@tristan isn't that because you're relying on public healthcare and thus should contribute to it, which is a means-tested amount?
 
@RobertGrant You have the same fee as well? Wow. I thought Canada was the only one to have this nonsensical tax
 
user559633
@RobertGrant lol, as if i get to use any public services.
 
No tax makes sense or doesn't make sense; I'd rather have stamp duty than income tax
 
3:20 PM
^^ +1 yeah.....
 
But then I'd probably be outside right now, attempting to lay my own road
 
Inheritance tax always gets my goat.
 
@RobertGrant That reasoning has been thrown around, but it's not really true. It's an excise tax.
 
Then stop inheriting goats!
 
(yes "gets my goat" is a real expression)
 
user559633
3:21 PM
here in taxachusetts, we have excise tax. a yearly tax you have to pay for already owning a thing.
 
Not heard of that
It's Googlin' time!
 
we have federal and provincial income tax. We have property tax.
cha-ching
 
Not to derail a good old-fashioned tax-bashing - you've really never heard of "get someones goat"?
 
Who hasn't?
 
3:23 PM
But yes, inheritance tax makes me sangry.
 
I am very pro tax FWIW.
 
user559633
sanguine + angry?
 
isn't it "goad"?
 
user559633
i'm pro-basic services, but anti-taxes
 
Wow, okay that tax is pretty unpleasant for cars
 
3:24 PM
No - although I could be tempted to goad fizzy with my rampant socialism at this point ;)
 
I like the inheritance tax. It's a mechanism against nobility.
 
Given it's based on list price and not purchase price
 
In Australia, there's a tax when you sell investment properties, but the family home is exempt from that. But we do have an annual property tax on the unimproved value of the land, which is paid to the local municipal government.
 
@QuestionC if that's what it's for then it's definitely not working
 
user559633
when you're paying taxes to support a department of a town to collect taxes, you've done a business. if we don't collect taxes then we wouldn't have the money to pay people to collect taxes
 
3:24 PM
Oh, @QuestionC went there. In which case - I'll weigh in in support of that view.
 
how does the whole adopt-a-highway program thing work in the US?
 
Yeah the problem isn't the rose-tinted view of what taxes are for, the problem is what they're really for
 
@JRichardSnape I accept taxes :P I don't accept being taxed on money that's probably already been taxed.
 
user559633
@idjaw small amount of money paid for advertising
 
Income tax etc I don't mind. I get free healthcare if I need it, I get free roads, etc.
 
3:25 PM
@Ffisegydd so you're against VAT?
 
STOP OPPRESSING MY IRRATIONAL BELIEFS.
 
our roads are soooooo bad. The pothole situation is obscene
(cool...this is awesome -> pixlr.com/editor)
 
@Ffisegydd It's not about money. It's taxing activity. If you want to avoid the tax, don't make your kids millionares without them working for it.
 
Well - what I will mention is that, if we're talking money that's already been taxed (pace "probably") - we should tax the capital gains on owning property / shares before inheritance, I guess...
Maybe at 100%
 
I'm probably the wrong person to have this debate with as realistically I don't (currently) care. I just look at inheritance tax and think "that's a bit naff".
 
3:29 PM
pragmatically, though, I accept that the very people that it's designed to curtail are those best placed to put in place schemes to avoid inheritance tax.
 
But I don't hold any strongly held absolute beliefs in it (or anything, really)
 
SCIENCE
;)
 
Damn straight. There is nothing I believe in that cannot be over turned by reason and evidence. Apart from Tristan's hair - it's just too fabulous for debate.
 
It's about preventing the rise of modern aristocracy. We don't mind people being rich,, but not for generations into perpetuity.
 
user559633
I believe that no man is entitled to a single cent from another man's paycheck.
 
3:31 PM
brief-rbrb, got some work
 
I wouldn't mind paying to a thing if that thing was actually helpful and forward thinking. Unfortunately, when it comes to government, that is never the case.
So, yeah....I don't want anyone touching my money
 
TV Licence would annoy me if I paid it.
 
user559633
vote tristan 2016: the political views of your grandparents, without the racist undertones
 
(I don't pay it because I don't have to, not because I'm a licence-dodger)
I was once sent a parable which I found amusing, but then I don't know if it's actually a true mirror of the real tax system, so I'm loath to share it lest I be wrong.
 
user559633
haha, if i didn't share anything that might be wrong, i wouldn't get to chat in here at all
 
3:37 PM
It also might be viewed as quite Tory-leaning which I'd hate to have influence my standing in the eyes of certain socialist room members.
(Just kidding, people with a single letter for a first name are stupid :P)
 
user559633
Stupid brilliant JRS
 
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this…

- The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing
- The fifth would pay $1
- The sixth would pay $3
- The seventh would pay $7
- The eighth would pay $12
- The ninth would pay $18
- The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59
So, that’s what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve ball.
I would have pastebin'd it but it's blocked at work.
 
I read a libertarian economic tract that was actually pretty educational until it got past the first act and turned into "Now take these lessons to their logical extreme."
 
I don't know where the version shared to me comes from but I googled it and found this at danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2012/03/18/…
 
Any political / economic ideology says to take things to the extreme. That's why they're ideologies, not practicalities
 
3:41 PM
 
user559633
Hah, yeah, I was thinking that when I typed it
 
hahah
 
But yes, I don't know if it's entirely accurate but it amused me on my FB feed and we were discussing tax.
Plus I've eaten far too many coffee beans and now my typing is far too quick as my hands keep on shaking a little bit.
 
user559633
There's a certain amount of truth to it, but the 10th man would have tried to represent himself as the 6th man.
 
Well yes. In real life it's not nearly as clear cut.
In real life the 10th man would have kept most of drinking abroad to avoid paying for beer at home.
I'm somewhat of a hypocrite though as I don't find tax avoidance bad as long as it's within the rules
 
user559633
3:46 PM
Yeah. My gut feeling is that you pay more than your "fair share" of taxes until you're rich or powerful enough to avoid it (e.g. Obama's tax rate was 20%).
 
Seems a little reductive... :/
 
I feel that if you hide it abroad it's bad form/should be punished but you can bet you left testicle that if I was self-employed I'd have an accountant to make the most of my self-employedness with the legal rebates.
@Will Which part?
 
user559633
My problem with taxes are that I ultimately don't really get a say in how they're used.
 
user559633
“Merging feminist postcolonial science studies and feminist political ecology, the feminist glaciology framework generates robust analysis of gender, power, and epistemologies in dynamic social-ecological systems, thereby leading to more just and equitable science and human-ice interactions.”
 
@tristan apart from voting a party in with certain priorities, I see what you mean.
 
3:49 PM
That the otehr nine guys beat up the rich guy. Voting for someone to reorganize tax law in the face of rising poverty doesn't quite seem the same
 
@Will Yes, I suppose in the story the "beating up" is more along the lines of the media giving people a hard time :P
 
DSM
My typical interaction with ice is slipping on it. Just?
 
Rather than actual physical violence.
 
DSM
Icy cabbage for all!
 
user559633
We should probably fund a study to look into that.
 
3:51 PM
P.S. I haven't taken the hump and stormed off - just trying to get a document out before 17:30 and LaTeX is giving me grief (or rather I'm giving it grief).
 
it's an analogy, the leftist analogies I hear ususally end up with millions of people starving. Parables only go so far I guess
 
Hey up DSM. Have you decided to drop your plaid+jeans lifestyle yet?
 
user559633
Outwardly complaining and caring about a thing isn't the same as solving a problem.
 
Extremes are useful only in their ability to illuminate potential nasty consequences.
 
I thought the hard bit was building a brand?
 
3:53 PM
Beating up the rich guy isn't really that far from the truth, it's certainly happened before (nationalizing property). It's harder to do in modern times I think though.
 
DSM
@Ffisegydd: not quite yet. But who knows what the future will bring? Made it past the first round, anyhow.
 
And it's a little crude. "Dollars" is a more noble measure of wealth than "Friends with baseball bats"
 
That's good. Definitely worth going through the rounds even if you aren't to sure on the place. I took interviews at places I wasn't happy about just for the interview practice.
 
@Ffisegydd "So tell me why you'd like this job" - You: "I don't - just wanted the practice! k thx bai!" :p
 
DSM
3:56 PM
A few years ago during a for-the-hell-of-it interview, they asked that question. I said "I'm not sure that I do," and then explained why I wasn't sure that the responsibilities described really sustained a full-time position.
 
@JonClements I mean if they'd been the only person to offer me a job I'd have considered it, but yeah pretty much :P
 
we had one guy in an interview tell us that he would break the manager down until he won the argument, when asked how they handle a situation where they disagree with the work their manager assigns to them.
 
gotta reward that persistence
 
DSM
+1 for the spirit, -10 for the stupidity of giving that answer.
 
I'm actually doing some interviews for FizzyCorp in the next few weeks.
Interviewing for some data positions.
 
DSM
3:59 PM
Ask them who their favourite pandas answerer is. If they answer incorrectly, move along.
 
Umm... Ms D? :)
 
Doing a remote interview for some guy called Derrick Sebastian Montgomery. Not got high hopes.
 
"What's your greatest weakness?"
"I'm too honest"
"I don't think that's a weakness"
"I don't give a Yam what you think"
4
 
"Sorry but you pronounced all the words wrong in your presentation, we can't hire you."
 
DSM
What do people have against raising of /æ/ before voiced velars like /ɡ/ and /ŋ/? (smh)
 
4:06 PM
Hey what's the go-to guide for learning python for a complete beginner to programming? This room isn't a fan of LPTHW, right?
 
oh derp, thanks
 
No worries.
 
DSM
We've been talking about LPTHW collectively for too long for our views to be independent, but what struck me when it first came up so long ago is that so many of us independently decided it wasn't a good text, and many of us originally realized something was wrong because the questions the students were asking were wrong.
 
4:18 PM
I mostly don't like it because I want to make Antti smile
 
I didn't know he could.
 
The only thing I know about LPTHW is your burning hate and contempt mild professionally-rooted aversions towards it, and I'm cool with that.
@MorganThrapp that's why Robert is trying so hard
 
Well his mouth was open and I could see his teeth.
 
I've never read LPTHW, I've just been annoyed looking at poorly written code on SO and discovering so many of them came from the same source.
 
user559633
@DSM Yeah, exactly. I came to the conclusion that it wasn't ideal based on questions and the thought process of "wow, this asker must have really misinterpreted the text. no?"
 
4:21 PM
I actually have read it when I first started on Python.
It has a terrible difficulty curve.
And far too many instances of "Just do this, I'll explain why later".
 
The easy way to fix a book with too steep a learning curve is to give it a title and intro that forbid that criticism.
 
@MorganThrapp Which become questions on SO like "I was reading this tutorial and it said to do X but didn't explain why. So you guys explain it to me"
 
@MorganThrapp Now people would understand when my photo was taken ;-)
 
cbg all
 
Cabbage :-)
 
4:25 PM
@Kevin Exactly.
 
@MorganThrapp Is that @thefourtheye in a bad mood? :p
 
@JonClements It's Antti in a good one.
 
laurel!
 
@JonClements Thats my charming smile puppy :-) Apparently, I am enjoying it :D
 
@thefourtheye I thought you were - have a scooby snack for being such a good puppy! :)
 
4:28 PM
I was browsing through my profile, and I just can't believe that out of the 1345 answers I've written, the most popular one by far simply tells people how to set the word wrap margins in a text editor by using obvious menu options. Strange...
 
Yay :-) Scooby Snack..
 
DSM
I meant to ask. Are any of our soccer-loving friends Leicester fans?
 
@DSM they are now
 
@MattDMo I could downvote it if you like. Make it more in line with your other answers. ;)
 
aww, thanks. No.
 
DSM
4:29 PM
@MattDMo: my most popular answer just tells people how to set the number of legend points to one, which is, not unreasonably, numpoints=1, and is clearly explained in the documentation for the legend. Who knows why anybody does anything.
 
Good old Leicester.
 
@DSM I am baffled by the success of Leicester
FWIW, I support Arsenal.
 
I'm not really a football fan, and not a Leicester fan at that, but it's pretty impressive.
 
Being a 'Murican and all, I read a really good article on the BBC explaining the Leicester phenomenon. What really explained it for me was the analogy of a AA team somehow winning the World Series.
 
If only for a £10 bet :(
 
DSM
4:31 PM
Prior to this year, almost the only thing I knew about Leicester was that it was the soccer team supported by a gridiron writer I follow. At the start of the year he tweeted "So FYI Leicester are winning the league", and he retweeted it a few days ago saying "I was kidding"..
 
My most popular answer lists a number of ways to approach a problem that anybody could solve with twenty minutes of critical thinking. Most of them wouldn't even need to consult documentation while doing so.
 
I need to do a Biff and get the Sports Almanac thing from the future... :)
 
@Kevin and you got 400 points in bounties! Lucky...
BTW, do bounties count toward earning a badge for a tag?
 
@MattDMo Nope
 
And my second most popular answer describes a way to render a 3d sphere using a method which I have become convinced is nothing like the industry standard (insofar as there is one)
 
4:33 PM
My top answer is an embarrassment. "Want to do the needful? Use this library."
 
DSM
How popular is your toe counting one? Or whatever it was. :-)
 
Without looking, I guess that's #3.
 
Mine is an almost straight copy of the docs for __enter__ on a context manager.
Basically just reiterating that it needs to return self.
 
DSM
It's a little strange to think about in hockey terms, though. To use an analogy I heard earlier today, it's like winning the Stanley Cup when your team is sleeping because another team lost. Seems.. weird.
 
There's no real analogy in American football as there's no such thing as relegation.
 
4:35 PM
@DSM Suddenly thinking of that South Park episode now...
 
@Ffisegydd that's actually a good answer, though. I upvoted it.
 
"Imagine a team winning the Superbowl, and last year they were so bad they were almost kicked out of the competition."
Leicester have spent less money in their entire history than Man Utd spent in the last two years.
 
"Imagine that PHP won the award for best programming language".
 
DSM
We have relegation.. relegation to sixty years of despair. :-(
 
It's like winning the Super Bowl because your team got the greatest number of positive tweets during the game.
 
4:40 PM
well, they did actually do stuff during the season, right? It just happened they won because of point-counting and stuff.
 
They won by getting the most points. An interesting strategy.
 
DSM
In my traditions that's fine for setting playoff ranking, but seems like a strange way to determine the champion. We just like playoffs.
 
 
@Ffisegydd it actually is. Most sports that I'm familiar with just count wins
 
ah so the sports thing is still going on:P
 
4:44 PM
@tristan What he said. It's not just the steep learning curve, or the gaps in explanation, or poor ordering of the material. So many LPTHW students seem to pick up weird misconceptio ns about Python and about how programming works. True, that could be simply due to them being poor students, except that there's a consistency to the weirdness. I reckon I can often pick a LPTHW "victim" from the vibe of the question, the OP doesn't need to mention it by name.
 
DSM
@idjaw: I'm a Colts fan, so Mora's rant has particular resonance..
 
^^that video will live on for a while.
 
> Though this be madness, yet there is method in't
 
and was just sent this from a colleague. Looks like a ridiculous time will be had: octodadgame.com
 
> This time, our cephaloprotagonist has gotten himself in a bind between his wife’s mounting mistrust, and a disastrous trip to the local aquarium!
resist silly joke about the identity of mistrust
 
user559633
4:50 PM
@PM2Ring Yep. I have lots of respect for Zed Shaw, so I had a hard time believing it was the material. I suspect that maybe if a fledging developer read it cover to cover, he/she would have the tools needed to continue growing, and that he has an approach in mind (even if his response to feedback is "go learn a lisp, know it all").
 
user559633
My understanding is that he edits it regularly, so I wouldn't be surprised if our "reservations" are out of date.
 
from what I've gathered, the issues are fundamental
unless he re-writes the whole thing...with a new name preferably
 
@tristan Fair enough. And allegedly a Python 3 version is due out soon, so one of Antti's big objections will evaporate.
 
user559633
I suspect that his thought process is "this book is for brand new programmers. teach them the crawling way of doing things (e.g. 0 < x < 10) as that will help them appreciate and understand a stylish way (x in range(1,10))"
 
@AndrasDeak Well, yeah. But I'm prepared to let him redeem himself... if he can.
 
user559633
5:00 PM
"learn to program using python" v. "learn python programming", i suppose
 
see, I just don't understand that kind of mentality. If a function is there, use it. Explain how it works, but don't force students to crawl through it. I have the same issue with a lot of homework questions we get - "split this string without using str.split()"
 
Yeah, that would be: "learn sucky python -> forget sucky python -> learn proper python -> ??? -> profit"
 
user559633
because if you generally learn how to code, you can code in python, or ruby, or java.
 
user559633
to be sure: this sounds like such a truism that i don't want it to come off as condescending or rude
 
From you? No way.
 
user559633
5:06 PM
i really need to improve my communication skills. usually i'm typing when distracted and think my approach is "here's a general or hyperbolic statement, please respond to it so we can intuit each other's perspective", but i fear it comes off as direct or preachy
 
@tristan That goal is ok, and maybe he achieves it with many of his students. But it doesn't seem to be working too well for the people who ask LPTHW questions on SO.
 
user559633
oh definitely, because i think the book is meant as a "read this and then go forth and experiment", but some of the students use it as "skipped to chapter 5. want webapp. how do?"
 
Read that as "... so we can insult each other's perspective" and thought "sounds like a lot of people on the Internet have that approach, actually"
 
Wow - this ANPR is cool :p
 
automatic number plate recognition?
 
5:21 PM
yeah....
 
I missed the context then:(
 
never mind - just having fun with a little project and new toy
 
ah
is it opencv-based?
 
Not sure - whatever the hardware/software is in the camera... I'm just working with the output
 
oooh, OK:)
 
5:27 PM
For anyone interested. The strange things Radiohead have been up to lately, lead to this:
 
@JonClements reminded me of this:
Apr 11 at 8:50, by khajvah
user image
 
aaah image not found
why would anyone link from 4chan?:D
let me just perpetuate the habit of linking from odd places
 
@MattDMo I know how you feel, especially when the OP doesn't mention the restrictions at the outset. OTOH, doing low-level string processing "by hand" is a reasonable way to teach basic stuff like looping, if tests, etc. IMHO
 
user559633
^ that's my feeling too. shows what strings are, removes a little bit of the abstraction so learners can make their own solutions when the stdlib doesn't have a solution (or for when you forget what it's called in itertools or collections :P)
 
5:32 PM
@PM2Ring I guess it's true that we don't always know the whole context of the problem. Still, I've seen some pretty ridiculous problem constraints. Maybe it helps you to learn to think "outside of the box", but it still seems counterproductive to me in some situations.
I guess that if I were in that situation, I would rather spend the time to learn what's in the stdlib and how to apply it, rather than mucking through "the hard way." There's always time later on, when you get into functions and whatnot, to come up with your own solutions to problems that don't have a handy solution.
 
Sure, and it can lead to ugly inefficient code. But hey, you gotta learn to crawl before you can walk. Or dance.
 
True. Differences of philosophy, I guess. Different things work for different people.
I'm not saying that instructors should jump right into list comprehensions, itertools, and the intricacies of filter, map, and reduce
 
there should be an addendum to the intro of LPTHW: "If this doesn't work for you, please read another book before asking on Stack Overflow."
6
 
The flip side of that is when we see questions from people using sophisticated frameworks who have no idea how to do really basic stuff with the core language, not to mention the standard libs.
 
@inspectorG4dget: sorry, that account turned out to be a ban evader.
 
5:47 PM
So they have advanced tools at their fingertips but they can't get the full power out of them because they don't really know how to program when they can't achieve what they want via cut and paste.
 
Do we have a well-known dupe for this one?
 
6:03 PM
@MartijnPieters whaaa?! which account?
 
@inspectorG4dget the one that doesn't exist anymore I'm guess? :p
 
lol! I assumed he meant a question I had answered, but could find such a one
 
you know what's fun? Finding missing information in documentation that takes you over an hour to figure out that it was something that should have been in the documentation in the first place. grrr.
 
Rhubarb
 
6:11 PM
rbrb
 
Might as well cv the linked question on that last one too.
 
Oh, I didn't even see that one. Voted.
 
alright mission accomplished, convinced team that upgrading to python 3.X is a go
next question is what version of 3.x?
 
Woohoo!
As high as your dependencies will allow
 
6:23 PM
I don't suppose there is an easy way to check? :)
 
Not sure. If you export your dependencies using pip freeze, you can make a 3.5 virtualenv and try doing pip install -r to install the same versions
 
though I have 3.5.1 installed I guess
 
Set up tox, run the tests across multiple versions.
 
That sounds like better advice
 
6:27 PM
@MartijnPieters ahh that one! Sigh, I tried to answer it and voted immediately to close for exactly that reason
 
I guess I only have a few dependencies. I'll see what happens heh
then I'll have to fix all the b0rken code
looks like all my dependencies work for 3.5 cool
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
nooooo!
 
DSM
You should say "yay", those are the shallowest things to fix..
 
@DSM ... so far :P
 
DSM
Which dep?
 
it's a print string syntax
 
6:30 PM
Hopefully...yeah
That.
 
since I used in a few places print 'foo{}'.format(bar) which isn't valid now
is there a good util to auto convert stuff?
 
DSM
2to3!
 
that certainly seems relevant haha
 
Make sure it's tracked in source control so you can see all the changes
 
DSM
It was very cleverly named.
 
6:31 PM
@RobertGrant yup
 
DSM
Although hopefully your testing framework is rigorous enough to catch any quirks, sometimes things slip through.
 
I thought .format() was one of the good ways
 
DSM
It is, it's the print statement itself causing problems.
 
is it print("") > "".format() > print ""?
 
@AndrasDeak I think you need print(stuff) instead of print stuff
 
6:32 PM
@AndrasDeak he's using print as a statement, which won't work
It's only a function in python 3
 
@RobertGrant yeah that I know
 
@DSM it's complicated since about 1/2 of my framework builds other tests - so those tests are sort of integration tests :)
 
or is it rather "".format() > "" %()?
@enderland just differentiate it back and see if it's the same thing
 
@AndrasDeak yeah. the end result integration tests are really useful for this sort of thing
 
*googles integration test*
aaaah I see
the testing rabbit hole
"unit testing's good for you" --> "why not integration test, if you have unit tests?" --> "just test everything, OK?"
slippery slope, this testing
 
6:35 PM
@AndrasDeak The Python documentation is careful to never explicitly say that .format is better than percent style formatting, but from the way it compares them, it's apparent the author likes .format better.
 
To be fair, it is better.
 
heh 2to3 destroyed my import paths :'(
 
@Kevin interesting - I was thinking that format is better, but didn't know why.
 
@Kevin It seemed to me from some remarks here that .format was better
 
I guess it's a weird thing to have an operator for
 
6:37 PM
>

Note

The formatting operations described here exhibit a variety of quirks that lead to a number of common errors (such as failing to display tuples and dictionaries correctly). Using the newer str.format() interface helps avoid these errors, and also provides a generally more powerful, flexible and extensible approach to formatting text.
 
@Kevin last time it was some guy named Kevin
Apr 25 at 15:41, by Kevin
>>> "Putting %s in a {} is easy if you use {}".format("string", "format")
'Putting %s in a string is easy if you use format'
 
so, it's more foolproof, right?
(just my thing)
 
Honestly, the biggest advantages of .format for me is argument reuse, and the ability to do format_string.format(**dictionary).
 
I find format a lot better because I've made a few too many mistakes with stuff that requires ordering in string building in the past, always requiring named arguments is a little more work and a lot less frustration
 
DSM
6:39 PM
I wish it weren't quite so verbose.. I wouldn't have minded % if it had the same behaviour as format.
@enderland: it doesn't, though, you can do '{}{}{}'.format(1,2,3).
 
@DSM I always name the args for that reason ;)
 
user559633
.format is more featured, but slower
 
@DSM they aren't. :'(
 
DSM
@enderland: "they"?
 
minor syntax changes are not the extent of what I'll have to do
 
DSM
6:48 PM
I remember when I first starting porting stuff, I had some problems because I'd fallen into some bad Python 2 unicode habits. Once I corrected those, the rest was straightforward.
 
looks like __metaclass__ = abc.ABCMeta vs constructor args were my problem1 to fix at least
> During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred:
those got chained twice! hahahah
hrm, seems like subprocess.check_output return types changed :(
 
DSM
It shouldn't have, it should return bytestrings in both cases, no?
 
I'm... not sure
I have a subprocess.check_output ().replace that is failing
 
DSM
Ah. You shouldn't really have done that in the first place. :-)
 
apparently XD
 
DSM
6:59 PM
check_output is returning just a series of bytes. To get a string out of that, something you can replace, you need to decode it.
 

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