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5:00 PM
\s
 
Anyway, tis time for a coffee .. Rbrb
 
5:17 PM
can't group by anagram correctly is a nice demonstration of why adding " == True" to the end of all your conditionals is a dangerous habit
I knew it was a pointless habit prior to this, but it didn't occur to me that it could change the behavior of your code even when all of your conditionals ostensibly evaluate to booleans.
 
That's actually not how I would've expected the chaining to work. I would've assumed it was doing if sort in (dict == True).
Which still evaluates to junk, just slightly different junk.
 
Yeah me too. I always forget that in chains the same as more conventional comparison operators do
I expected OP's code to give "can't iterate over bool" or something, which is what would have happened it it was merely a precedence problem
 
That makes sense.
Is it possible to override assignment on a custom class? Eg, x = MyClass(); y = x, y should be a copy of x.
So that I can do x += 1 without it modifying y.
 
Hmm
I suspect not.
 
I also suspect not.
 
5:26 PM
Assignment is not part of the class I think
 
Yeah, that's what I figured. :/ Is there another way to do it? I'll give a full MCVE of what I want, just a sec.
 
What do we get out of this?
 
I wouldn't expect in-place add to mutate anyway, unless you explicitly overrode __iadd__
 
I can offer a star, and possibly a virtual high five.
@Kevin I overrode __radd__ and __add__.
 
well, don't do that :-P
I think this is one of those "have your cake and eat it too" situations.
Or rather, it's not one of those situations.
You definitely have to make difficult cake-related decisions at this time.
 
5:30 PM
Yeah, I'm currently doing y = x[:], but it feels wrong using that for what is essentially an int.
That's what I want to do.
 
I think I would enforce immutability and throw out __radd__ entirely
If it's a numerical type as you've implied.
 
The problem is that I need the pointer to be mutated in a function.
 
Yeah, strict immutability may require a redesign at a significantly high level
 
Yeah, that's what I'm realizing. I'm trying to decide if I dislike [:] enough to redesign how I handle pointers.
 
"make the function return the new value instead of mutating the existing instance" is a quick bandaid but in the long term you'd have to find a consistent way of passing data around
 
5:35 PM
Why not just use copy?
 
@Kevin I certainly could do that. The design issue for me is that I'm passing a constant set of arguments to a dict of functions and only one of those functions mutates the pointer. I could just make all of them return it, but it feels a little off to me.
 
You could pass the set of arguments in as a mutable collection, and replace the items in the collection with other items. This is legal even if each item is itself immutable.
 
@QuestionC I thought about that. I don't love that idea either. Ideally, I find some magic way to do this, or just redesign.
@Kevin That's actually not a bad idea at all. Roll everything up into an environment variable and just reassign the elements of that.
I think that's what I'm going to end up doing.
 
print(x) # 0
x + 1
print(x) # 1
I think that's the "real" problem
 
That could also be an issue. I'm not totally clear on how best to do what I'm trying to do.
Thankfully, if I go with Kevin's idea, I can throw this whole custom class away.
 
5:41 PM
__add__ really shouldn't modify its arguments. It's very non-converntional.
 
Yeah, I initially read that method's name as __iadd__, which would make more sense.
 
If I don't mutate in __add__, how would I do something like this: gist.github.com/morganthrapp/f8411b82f6a3437bd732
 
class Pointer:
    def __init__(self, loc=0):
        self.location = loc
    def __iadd__(self, other):
        self.location += other
    def __str__(self):
        return str(self.location)
x = Pointer()
def mutate(pointer):
    pointer += 2
mutate(x)
print(x)  # 2
 
Oh! That's good to know.
 
Tangent: Why implement pointers in python?
 
5:46 PM
It's for Pylons. I'm doing it so that I can mutate the stack pointer in a function.
 
I'm guessing this is for his stack-based language implementation, Pylons. He needs to keep track of the program counter and where the top of the stack is. Oops beaten.
 
For if/jmpz.
Yup, exactly.
 
KevinScript doesn't have an explicit pointer of that kind, but if it did, I'd probably just make it an ordinary integer as an attribute on an easily-accessible class.
Environment.program_counter or some such.
 
Yeah, that's what I'm planning on doing in my next refactor. Probably later this week or next week depending on how busy work is.
 
I actually do want to modify my AST evaluator so that it does have an explicit pointer. It would let me make nicer stack traces during exceptions.
 
5:50 PM
I should move to proper AST at some point, my tokenization is all hand rolled and somewhat crude.
 
generating ASTs with homespun code isn't too bad as long as you stay away from infix notation.
1 2 + is easy to parse. + 1 2 is easy to parse. 1 + 2 is the devil incarnate.
 
Oh yeah, that's why I did everything with postfix.
 
In The C++ Programming Language, one of the first code examples he used to explain the language was a working calculator parser. Bjarne's kind of a dick.
 
Well, 1*2+3*4 isn't super hard, because you can iteratively split on the operator of highest precedence. It's when you introduce parentheses that the most straightforward string-based approaches fail
 
@MorganThrapp You might want to read about RPL (programming language). They did the sameish thing.
 
6:00 PM
Honestly, the most difficult part has been finding a way to parse 112+ as 11 + 2. That's why I ended up going with the explicit number markers.
@QuestionC Thanks, I'll check it out!
 
I expect the usual approach would be to require whitespace between consecutive constants: 11 2 +. But you're not going to get any good golf scores that way ;-)
 
Exactly. :P
 
re-cbg
 
Actually, I changed my mind. parsing infix expressions is hard even without parentheses, because there isn't always an "operator of highest precedence". For example, "*" and "/" are tied, so you can't give one priority over the other.
 
Taking space to be the "Push this on the stack" command does the sameish thing. 11 2+
 
6:04 PM
That could work. It would be a byte shorter than my current solution of #11#2+.
 
I don't know if it's necessary to make space its own operator. You could just use it to distinguish between consecutive integer literal tokens and discard it entirely before parsing begins in earnest
 
Parenthesis are where the parsing snake starts to eat its own tail though. You can cleverly parse multiplication and division without any sort of recursion or stack but handling marks of parenthesis requires a completely different mindset.
 
@Kevin Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I thankfully split my tokenizaton and execution apart, so it shouldn't be too bad.
 
Is the use of non-printing characters fair game in code golf languages?
 
Yup.
One of the more popular languages right now, Jelly, actually uses its own code page.
 
6:20 PM
Number of times I have explained the difference between str and repr today: [2]
 
so what's the difference between __str__ and __repr__?
 
About three characters.
 
how did you come up with "three"?
That's certainly not a symmetric measure
 
5 characters to be accurate
-s -t +r +e +p
 
well, that's starting to go towards the levenshtein edit distance
 
6:25 PM
the serious answer is, repr and str are the "formal" and "informal" representations of the object respectively. The first should give enough information to completely reproduce the object. The second one is to give the user something nice to look at.
 
I like that when users forget markdown and type like str
 
This is occasionally a problem because printing a dict will show the repr of each item, so it will be comparatively uglier than if you had printed each item individually
Same for other collections such as list etc
 
Calling str(list) internally calls the repr of each item ...
 
Right.
 
since we're talking about it: do both __str__ and __repr__ return strs?
 
6:27 PM
I got 2 bounties for explaining that :P
 
In 2.7 they do. In 3.X I am confused by a whirlwind of unicode and bytes and I don't know which way is up, so I have no comment.
 
Yeah, they both return strs That ^
 
We could really use a "why does my dict look different?" canonical question
 
Question -- Does calling repr on each element of the list mutate the list?
 
No
 
6:30 PM
It shouldn't, and it shouldn't mutate the elements of the list either
Although a sufficiently determined troll could make it so.
 
it shouldn't. As I understand it, str() and repr() have read-only permissions to their arguments... at least, that's how they SHOULD be done. But as far as python cares, they're basically almost like any other method
 
Hmm, read that in the source code somewhere ... Searching
 
>>> class Fred:
...     def __init__(self):
...         self.value = "OK"
...     def __repr__(self):
...         self.value = "Not OK"
...         return "Fred()"
...     def __str__(self):
...         return self.value
...
>>> x = Fred()
>>> print x
OK
>>> seq = [x]
>>> print seq
[Fred()]
>>> print x
Not OK
 
can you imagine embedding a version of this in an answer to "can I haz teh codez to me homewurkz plz?" question? I'd love to see that happen
 
> Do repr() on each element. Note that this may mutate the list, so must refetch the list size on each iteration.
 
6:36 PM
>>> class Fred:
...     def __init__(self):
...         self.value = "OK"
...     def __repr__(self):
...         seq.append("LOL")
...         return "Fred()"
...     def __str__(self):
...         return self.value
...
>>> x = Fred()
>>> seq = [x]
>>> print seq
[Fred(), 'LOL']
Checks out.
 
Wow. That is certainly something.
 
I think there's an important distinction here between "it is possible to mutate the list" and "it is ever sensible or even justifiable to mutate the list"
 
Was trying out that...
 
wrong wrong
 
6:42 PM
If in Python 4 they start enforcing ideas like "__repr__ must be a pure function", I hope the error message is a coupon for being punched in the face.
 
I'm 99% sure I saw this exact question earlier this week.
Except instead of linking the formula as an image, OP tried to use Latex.
Oh well. Maybe he self-deleted and re-asked, in which case there's no foul play here.
 
Dict keys must be mutable rite?
 
I believe so
 
strike that, reverse it
>>> d = {[]: 23}
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
TypeError: unhashable type: 'list'
 
Nah, They must be immutable... Got the perfect error
Yeah that ^^
 
6:49 PM
Hmm, did I jump the gun on How to end Python code [duplicate]?
 
So dicts are also similar ... Do repr on key, Do repr on values ... Print
 
The two code samples don't differ only by the name guard...
 
Oh I had a derp moment. I was thinking something else
 
@Kevin It's perfect
 
I'll probably reopen if OP complains... I don't feel like arguing today.
 
6:53 PM
You did not jump the gun.
 
How should Bug in Python Scraper be treated? "Will pay maximum of 30 Euros" implies he's seeking a contractor.
Flag as spam?
Oh, it's gone now. Clever OP :-)
 
Thats like a case of beer!
 
Now he's paying zero Euros. What a savings!
 
Now he's paying with a case of beer, but only if it's free.
 
6:57 PM
:D
 
I only drink beer that's Free As In Libre.
 
It sounds like he's asking a technical question about how Twitter works. I don't see what's wrong with it besides phrasing.
 
Well, it doesn't have an MCVE in the post. External links don't count.
 
user559633
@MorganThrapp GNU's Not Unfiltered
 
It used to be a solicitation. Now it's just a post that I have no interest in answering.
 
7:00 PM
Is getting the last element of a list faster than getting the last character in it's repr value?
 
I strongly expect so, yes
Constructing a string representation of the list is O(N). Indexing any element is O(1).
 
It's entirely possible that Twitter starts throwing junk at web scrapers after about a week, and Joe the bored programmer who isn't in this room knows that.
 
Right. It's theoretically answerable, maybe.
 
Ah, so that's an intelligent move.
Add a fancy [ at the front and another ] at the end of the list and then join all of them with a comma.
Instead of going the other way.
 
Well join is O(N) too so I don't think you're going to outperform repr in constructing an official representation of a list if that's what you're trying to do
 
7:05 PM
@BhargavRao Why all the repring?
 
I am trying to understand those
@QuestionC Kevin reminded me of the str repr stuff. This was in my To-read since many days. So I was reading that. :-)
 
What was that ? repr is faster than join?
 
It can't be, because repr calls join. Its other instructions would have to take negative time to be faster than join.
 
Now I am confused again. I guess I will read it over again and try more stuff.
 
Negative time. I like that. :D
 
7:11 PM
You would need a tachyon-enabled processor, which of course [was/is/will be/will having beened] banned during the Time War.
3
 
DSM
I remember as a kid trying to work out a viable language to describe all the crazy tenses which would cover the different time travel models in the novels I read.
 
I am unable to contemplate the reason now. I am almost about to fall back to It was designed like that reason.
 
You don't understand how it works, or why they did it that way?
 
why they did it that way
 
You may be overthinking it. I don't think there are any savage optimizations going on here, I just think this is the first approach they tried that worked.
 
7:15 PM
Ah, Fine. This is one reason even I can agree to.
 
In general I wouldn't expect them to spend a lot of time making stdout/stdin I/O faster, since there's not much need when you're dealing with humans that have response times on the order of tenths of a second.
 
Depending on the alternative implementations, there's efficiency reasons for doing it this way.
 
Kevin doesn't IO tend to be rather slow?
 
Like, you don't want to append '[' to the beginning of the mostly-repr'd list because that's pretty much copying the whole list (again).
 
I'd like to go with Kevin's answer for this, and close my reading book for today. :-)
 
7:18 PM
@MichalFrystacky Yeah, in relation to operations that don't touch the file system and/or any peripherals.
 
Today I realized that there is a guy called "Martin Panter" in the Python dev team :P
 
@Kevin Got it, thanks! :)
 
It's justifiable to be slow when you're printing to the screen. Nobody's going to praise you for rendering one million human readable messages per second instead of one thousand, because it will be a blur to them either way.
 
@QuestionC I didn't know that. That's rather useful! Is there a link for further reading on this?
@Kevin Wouldn't faster input be justifiable. The output makes sense unless we are trying to dump it into something to be read later.
 
as in, faster input()? Not really. Humans top out at like 150 words per minute, so having the capability to read keyboard strokes at 9999 WPM won't be much of a selling point.
 
7:27 PM
@MichalFrystacky "Why is my string building slow?" is just a really common issue that's comes up in pretty much every language. I don't have something to read for it offhand though.
@Kevin python output_not_necessarily_meant_for_human_consumption.py > foo.exe
 
7:49 PM
@QuestionC I see! Thanks.
 
M_T
8:02 PM
hi
 
Hello @M_T
 
M_T
let current_list_of_lists = [[element]]
is
for lists in current_list_of_lists:
> for element in lists:
>>do stmh
ok? It doesnt work for me
 
DSM
That should work.
>>> current_list_of_lists = [[2]]
>>> for sublist in current_list_of_lists:
...     for element in sublist:
...         print(element)
...
2
 
M_T
i got elements of class Tree which i made on my own
 
DSM
Doesn't matter what the elements are; the for logic is the same here.
 
8:06 PM
methinks @M_T is trying to mutate the inner element, or reassign it, or something along those lines
 
M_T
nono
 
I patiently await the mcve demonstrating the problem.
 
M_T
its okey but now i must figure out how to append new Tree elements in lists to the outer list
 
Hi there. I'm having strange results when using matplotlib3d to plot a surface. If I use the scatter method, the points are correctly represented in space. But if I want it as a surface, nothing works correctly: matplotlib.tri.Triangulation + trisurf function, numpy.meshgrid + plot_surface function... nothing! strange plots happen.

Data is extracted from an excel file loaded with Pandas, in case that matters. Also, if I use numpy.meshgrid + plot_surface with Z = [.5] * len(X), the surface is plotted perfectly (but, of course, is plain at z=0.5)
 
@M_T current_list_of_lists.append([Tree(), Tree(), Tree()])?
 
8:09 PM
matplotlib surfaces can be tricky if it's not clear which points arr connected to which in space...
 
M_T
what are the 3 keywords ; break continue and ...?
i love chats
 
If using a meshgrid with (x,y), it should work, since the points are in order, right?
 
@M_T I wanna say goto... but never use it
 
Which solutions do I have? maybe another library?
 
:28684136
False      class      finally    is         return
None       continue   for        lambda     try
True       def        from       nonlocal   while
and        del        global     not        with
as         elif       if         or         yield
assert     else       import     pass
break      except     in         raise
There are substantially more than 3.
 
M_T
8:13 PM
pass break and continue
 
@M_T len(__import__('keyword').kwlist) returns 31 in Py2 and 33 in Py3
 
M_T
i meant those 3
i needed to indent my if
 
If you're asking for keywords that can only appear inside of a for or while loop, pass isn't one of them. It can go anywhere a regular statement can go.
 
DSM
@RomanRdgz: I've had some success using mpl to do 3d surfaces in the past. It's occasionally looked weird if there were wide variations between levels, but it's been generally okay. How weird is your z?
(main site comment: users who ask ambiguous questions and then vanish irritate me in wild disproportion to the scale of the offence)
 
M_T
8:19 PM
what are most common applications of python? what industries or whatever?
i mean its not very good for object control and object oriented programming?
 
It's mostly used in the tech sector.
 
What's object control, and how isn't it good at that?
 
@M_T who told you that?
The entire language is object based.
 
I reject the premise of the question that implies that a language can only be good in a limited number of industries
 
With that I'll take leave. Rhubarb all
 
8:22 PM
(barring applications requiring enormous restraints e.g. embedded systems)
 
M_T
huh
@Kevin
some simpler English please :o
 
I was more thinking about Waffle House's language for describing orders.
 
M_T
thanks @BhargavRao nice link
 
@M_T He's saying that asking if a language can only be limited to a number of industries is a stupid question.
 
M_T
if a question or if a language
 
8:24 PM
Ok, simplified: "Q: What industries can Python be used in? A: All of them"
 
M_T
ok, but have you got some personal experience to share?
 
Yes, lots of it.
 
M_T
Like; I used python to program new rocket for nasa or whatever
:D
 
It's like asking in what industries calculators are good for.
 
Computer vision, industrial printing, telecommunications, mass marketing campaigns, high frequency trading, web applications, freight tracking logistics
 
8:27 PM
@M_T: if you've ever taken a flight with screens that show you in-flight movies, each of those screens are connected to a computer, running linux. Many of the startup scripts therein are written in python (as can be seen when it reboots at takeoff)
 
M_T
I flew by plane. TWICE
no movies though
 
when astronomers want to automate their telescopes to point at interesting sectors in space, they use python to handle the prediction (of where to look) and the automation (of pointing the telescope)
 
The JPL prefers C for their rockets AFAIK
 
DSM
boom
 
I've analysed data using python, I've built websites using python, I've controlled a multi-million £ machine using python, I've done natural-language processing using python, I've build 3D models using python. (I've also controlled a telescope using python, fanks G4dget :D)
 
8:29 PM
when geneticists want to read DNA sequences out of blast experiments, they use python (usually with biopython) to do their analyses
 
I've built full GUI software using Python.
 
Their coding standards are... meticulous.
 
M_T
wow ... python for life
 
I built an AI called Kevin using Python.
 
Haha very +++ OUT OF CHEESE ERROR +++ funny.
Did everything just taste purple for a second?
 
8:30 PM
@Kevin I thought they used ADA. Or is that NASA?
 
full gui programming, web programming, web crawling (Google does this), data analytics, natural language parsing and generation, evolutionary algorithms, program puppeteering (controlling running programs), software testing, fullstack automation, etc. All with python
 
Also, I'm currently writing a language in Python. So yeah, you can pretty much use it for everything.
 
if you want to write something that's closer to realtime, and has a smaller footprint, you might want to go with C. These are cases like flight stabilization, etc - not unlike what JPL uses [citation]
 
What one man can do, another can do. Did I say "man"? I meant "Turing-complete system", which encompasses 99% of the languages any of us have heard of.
 
@DSM @DSM z is not weird, is just positive float numbers, most of them within [0,1], some greater, not more than 6.
 
8:34 PM
Short of regex, I can't even think of any language that's not turing complete.
 
DSM
@RomanRdgz: so the toy case works, and you real one doesn't. Could you bisect to find the smallest case that doesn't work for you?
 
@MorganThrapp HTML?
 
@inspectorG4dget Oh yeah. Duh. I never use it, so I didn't even think about it.
 
DSM
(Second piece of good news today: they fixed a SWIG Python bug in December which had been annoying me for a long time.)
 
M_T
8:35 PM
if i wanted to work at machine learning (someday) what are main domains currently? I mean its used for biology, some recommendations systems/google searching engine etc maybe finance etc but something in medicine / human-oriented areas?
 
I think I read somewhere that LaTeX is Turing Complete... or was that sed?
 
@MorganThrapp SQL and most database languages
 
There do exist domain-specific languages, but Python is not one of them.
 
79
Q: Is SQL or even TSQL Turing Complete?

Matthew VinesThis came up at the office today. I have no plans of doing such a thing, but theoretically could you write a compiler in SQL? At first glance it appears to me to be turing complete, though extremely cumbersome for many classes of problems. If it is not turing complete, what would it require ...

 
well, python isn't domain specific in the conventional sense - it's more domain specific... to every domain
 
8:37 PM
@M_T Really? I'd suggest you do some research of your own here because there's not much ML couldn't be used for
 
M_T
@Ffisegydd but its not like i would like to write ML algorithms for t-shirt sizes etc.
 
Why not?
 
DSM
"Good money in shirts," he said knowingly.
 
What if you wanted to make predictions on what t-shirt sizes you will need to order in advance for the upcoming holidays?
 
M_T
none t-shirts just travel to the sea
 
8:38 PM
@Ffisegydd Fizzy makes not entirely uncontroversial statement shocker
 
What if you wanted to look at all the variations of "medium" to see how it varies across brands and countries?
 
@M_T drug trials - effectiveness and analysis. Modelling and simulation for the design of things like antenas used on the Mars Rover; or the topology of a new molecule to fight cancer
 
M_T
i hope someday i can get a job at ML in medicine
 
how about that ML that Target used, to send that 15 year old girl coupons for baby things... before she told her dad she was pregnant
 
@DSM I posted a question with images, just in case the weird look it gets gives you some hint. I guess I could try reducing the number of points, but IMO it would be wiser to understand how those functions works, how they differ from each other, and maybe then it would be clear that my problem is the order of the points (for example)
0
Q: Strange results with matplotlib3d to plot surfaces

Roman RdgzI'm having strange results when using matplotlib3d to plot a surface. If I use the scatter method, the points are correctly represented in space. But if I want it as a surface, nothing works correctly: matplotlib.tri.Triangulation + trisurf function, numpy.meshgrid + plot_surface function... noth...

 
M_T
8:40 PM
did you read 'The Power of Habit'? @inspectorG4dget
 
I'd use ML to train my AI to interpret Big Data to leverage quasi real time information to build future Smart Cities using the Internet of Things.
 
@M_T: I either have, or it's on my bookshelf for me to get around to. I remember the name, but can't remember what it was about
 
M_T
wow we got some visioners here
 
DSM
@RomanRdgz: the idea is that you need to work toward an MCVE that people can help debug. People are more likely to do that than they are to write tutorials, but of course YMMV.
 
Blue sky visioning FTW
 
M_T
8:42 PM
can you use ML to protect europe from collapsing? haha
 
@JRichardSnape imagine IoT knows you're done at work and your car drives up to the front door to pick you up
 
M_T
the work never stops
 
@M_T only if EU were run by machines. Meatbags are so unreliable
 
M_T
haha
 
wonders if his buzzword bingo was too close to the bone
@inspectorG4dget Hmm - now imagine that my wife could program what time that ought to be and the car could tell her that I was actually having coffee...
@RomanRdgz You're definitely going to need an MCVE. With the data and code that produced those plots, it's likely someone could help you in minutes.
 
M_T
8:46 PM
the world is changing so fast
 
BTW - in the writing , meshgrid follows trisurf, but looking at the plots, I'd say they're the other way round (may be wrong of course, hard to guess without seeing the code)
 
@M_T it moves 940 Billion meters every year
 
I like to think that when the machines take over, we'll be regarded as adorable domesticated pests and not as cockroaches.
 
@JRichardSnape privacy settings
 
M_T
8:48 PM
@inspectorG4dget running 10 kms doesnt change you a lot...
 
If you run fast enough, you'll gain quite a lot of mass...
4
 
so the key is to exercise, but not too intensely. Gotcha!
 
M_T
if you run often enough you'll lose quite a lot of mass
 
OTOH, running very fast is a good exercise regime for those who are underweight
 
Try to keep it below 0.0000000001 c.
 
8:50 PM
@M_T that was a reference to relativity... not general exercise
 
M_T
@inspectorG4dget i got it
anyone knows decision trees?
 
There has to be some algebra to figure out the speed at which you should run, to maintain mass - you'll gain mass thanks to relativity, and lose mass thanks to exercise/biology
what about decision trees?
 
DSM
Speaking of physics, everybody be ready tomorrow for some fun gravitational wave news, at least if the rumours are true. :-)
 
what is this news? a rock has been keeping me comfy for the past little while, so I've had little exposure to the outside world
 
M_T
how do i view libs in my python install?
 
8:54 PM
help('modules')
 
DSM
@inspectorG4dget: if the whispers are to believed, LIGO saw a merger of two black holes, with almost 3 solar masses worth of gravitational waves.
 
Neat. [Bender taking a picture.png]
 
M_T
xd
 
awesome!
 
I have this foreknowledge now, but I don't know what to do to turn it into money. Why couldn't LIGO seen a merger of Apple and Microsoft instead?
 
M_T
8:59 PM
non existence
 
Why do most telescopes point towards space? There are other interesting things to look at, you know.
 
Perhaps if we knew about all telescopes everywhere, we might find that more telescopes point at Earth than away from it
 
@Kevin it's thoughts like that that send young physicists to prison.
"Oh look, it's Mrs Jones down the street! Hi Mrs Jones! Oh. Oh! Oh!"
 
"That's interesting, there appear to be a series of water-filled canals..." "Yes, Giovanni, you're looking at the canal off of Ninth Street again"
@Ffisegydd Mrs Jones would do well to curtail her light cone more carefully.
 
Funny story. I was once doing some astronomy with my friend on the beach and as we set up the telescope it was pointed towards town as we were fitting the eye-piece. When it was set up I randomly looked through it and found myself staring into a girl's bedroom (empty, thankfully).
 
9:04 PM
If photons emit from her and enter my aperture, I think I'm the one being violated here.
 
@Ffisegydd interesting you looked for long enough to know the sex of the occupier
 
There were dresses hanging up. I could just be being really insensitive of course and making an assumption.
 
The My Little Pony memorabilia suggested an eight year old girl or a thirty five year old man.
 
DSM
I don't think someone can be fairly accused of insensitivity for making a perfectly reasonable assumption. There are all sorts of quirky things about me; I don't blame someone for not guessing them. (Er, but just to be clear, dresses aren't among them, although I'll own to wearing a kilt from time to time.)
 
"Men can wear dresses too, you insensitive clod!"
 
9:09 PM
But can men pretend that's insensitive in order to be offended at someone?
 
But men that wear dresses can be sexist and make their girlfriends wash & dry them in her room instead of his, so the probabilities cancel out. Your original assumption holds.
 
I like the thing that if they can do it, it should count against them. Much verisimilitude.
 
Reminds me of a somewhat dark joke. "you should thank me for saving your life?" "when did you save my life?" "when I decided not to kill you just now"
 
M_T
how to write something like Console.Write("{0,5}", alfa); in python? I mean give space of 5 characters to a variable in print?
 
DSM
What does "space of 5 characters" mean?
 
9:17 PM
@M_T printing and string formatting is extremely simple, and one of the first things in a python tutorial.
 
M_T
9:35 PM
def ShowDataset(self):
for record in self.dataset:
print('ordering: {0[0]} parent: {0[1]} value: {0[2]} height: {0[3]}'.format(record, align = '>', width = 5))
??
ordering: 1 parent: 0 value: 5 height: 1
ordering: 2 parent: 1 value: 10 height: 2
 
What's that supposed to be? The code is incomplete. We cannot psychically debug your code for you.
 
M_T
it doesnt align
 
> The code is incomplete.
 
M_T
i want to have ordering: <here width of 5 and on last place there is 1> etc
 
user559633
@DSM Project Mercury? Edit, never mind, that would be a space of 7 characters :)
 
9:39 PM
@Ffisegydd see how 5 height and 10 height are offset? i.e. the word height is not dperfectly aligned? I think that's what @M_T is after
 
@inspectorG4dget yes but they need to explain that themselves.
 
True. I was just trying to short-circuit some frustration
 
user559633
IIRC, the apollo program would have contained the first space-vessel capable of carrying 5 simultaneous people. wait i'm wrong, that would be 3
 
They need to learn to explain themselves properly and provide a full MCVE, otherwise they will continue to ask incomplete and impossible to answer questions.
 
M_T
what is MCVE
 
9:40 PM
@inspectorG4dget I can guess exactly what they want :P I ask because they need to explain it.
 
@M_T what people are trying to get you to do is to prepare an MCVE
 
M_T
you are curel
 
@M_T why not try and google it before you ask what an MCVE is?
 
In doing so, you will likely have to google what you are looking for. I can see from your profile that English is not your first language
Hence I would suggest googling "python fixed width printing"
 
@Ffisegydd there is the argument to be made for "teach by example" :P (though to be honest, I was not intentionally doing that - it was a happy accident)
 
9:41 PM
Which would constitute some good prior research for a question and will probably give you the answer you want.
 
@inspectorG4dget I much prefer to teach by asking questions.
 
That is a good pedagogical debate. I have found a surprising number of people who do not like to be taught by Socratic questioning, to my surprise
 
hrm... perhaps when I have traded in the next couple of years for a few characters in my name, I will understand that a little better
 
user559633
wait, i'm wrong, the apollo's module had space for 3. columbia was 4, making the challenger program 5. ha ha this joke really came together for me
 
Anyhoo - gonna fly now. Rbrb
 
9:43 PM
I quite like to be taught by being asked questions that make me think, but not many others do
cya, PotionsMaster!
 
user559633
@inspectorG4dget Same, I prefer being taught by people asking questions that make you think and then you dumbing it down for me.
 
10:01 PM
It's like a balloon! And...something bad happening!
 
 
2 hours later…
11:36 PM
Hi all
apparently python can be converted to windows executables ( using pyinstaller or something)
but
i have a single python script file, but i don't have python. Is there a way to convert that script into an executable without installing the python development kit ? Or i have to dl that whole kit for a single script file :/
keh, the zip file of the environment is 6mb ?
OK ... my question is stupid. Please ignore me. It's after midnight. Maybe i should sleep. Have a nice night
 
@Ffisegydd ack SATW. long johns are considered at -25 C
 
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