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7:00 PM
GNOME Keyring is a daemon application designed to take care of the user's security credentials, such as user names and passwords. The sensitive data is encrypted and stored in a keyring file in the user's home folder. The default keyring uses the login password for encryption, so users don't need to remember yet another password. GNOME Keyring is implemented as a daemon and uses the process name gnome-keyring-daemon. Applications can store and request passwords by using the libgnome-keyring library. GNOME Keyring is part of the GNOME desktop. == GNOME Keyring Manager == The GNOME Keyring Manager...
 
I haven't gotten to use PyDev yet, but it looks pretty cool. Check out the SO page for some pros and cons
It seems like nearly everything PyCharm has, ST can have to (and I'm sure vice-versa!) Seems to me that it just comes down to a matter of choice
PyCharm is more an IDE with everything already built in, where ST is a text-editor that you can extend to fit whatever your use case is
But that can take a good bit of work, and because extensions are community written, there's plenty of shoddy and buggy ones to sort through
 
Yeah that's a fair assessment.
PyCharm also has addons but they're not as necessary.
A disadvantage of PyCharm is if you're just doing some quick hacking, like answering an SO question, it's pure overkill.
 
Perhaps I am veering into the realm of bias, but it seems a bit unfair to me to have a long list of PyCharm features of which most can are possible in ST. Perhaps a bullet point for ST saying that it can be extended to have nearly all of the features that PC has
 
DSM
We were talking about IDEs when I left.. maybe time to split the room into Python-IDE and Python-Everything-Else?
 
This will be the division that finally cracks the cabbage and brings destruction upon us all... PC vs ST.
 
DSM
7:12 PM
I vote Amiga.
 
question; if you had a page redirect to another page for whatever reason, how would you redirect them back to the page that redirected them later? (Keeping in mind they could travel more than one page)
 
✓ Great debugging tools
✓ (Has very powerful search capabilites out of the box, including regex searches) Indexes all files and Python libraries for quick searching
✓ Fantastic array of commands and uses
✓ Embedded terminal + Python terminal
✓ (Excellent or not is a bit of an opinion) Excellent for managing large projects
✓ Advanced refactoring abilities
✓ Support for virtualenvs and Vagrant VMs
✓ (And all others) Has excellent support for supplementary languages (Javascript, HTML templating, etc)
For ST with extensions and configuring
(I agree this isn't a fun convo to have everyday, but I think this is a bit different since we're working on a wiki page to end this convo)
 
Yeah :P
 
Also, a link to this page: sublime.wbond.net would be nice, as well as links to the pages for all the listed IDEs
 
Hi all, could I ask the community a question regarding closing as dups? Should I not close a question as a dup unless I know it to have the canonical answer as the accepted answer?
 
7:16 PM
@Johndt6 the benefit of pycharm is more that it's set up by default for python, so it's really quick to start in
having PEP8 linters out of the box is really awesome
 
sublime.wbond.net/packages/Anaconda <-- Most of the functionality of PyCharm in one extension
 
Sup @unutbu. Obviously it's up to you and what we think here is just the opinion of a small subset of the Python community. But generally I think we think it's best if you make sure that the "canonical" question is the best question/answer. It doesn't necessarily have to be the oldest though.
 
DSM
@unutbu: cabbages for you! I think it's preferable to close in favour of canonical dups, but if one doesn't exist or you're not sure which of the several to choose, then choose the best and dup-close away. IMHO.
 
Yeah exactly.
 
@Humdinger No, but I do agree with you
However, it really is pretty easy to install extensions once you install package control
 
7:19 PM
Do you know what happens if a better answer exists or comes along? Can dup targets be closd as dups too?
 
I use atom personally, just cause it's aesthetically pretty good. It's basically sublime text, with a few ever so minor adjustments, really.
 
@unutbu yeah they can be
 
I just want to make sure there's not too much bias on the wiki :)
 
If you pick the second best post as a target, we can always close the second best post as a dupe of the best one :-)
 
You could literally have a chain. Question1 > Question2 > ... QuestionN (where QuestionN is the ultimate best question ever)
 
DSM
7:20 PM
It's certainly happened before. Ideally it'd be possible to repoint the entire tree, but there's no easy way to do that, although a sufficient number of wielders could probably pull it off in practice.
 
I like that ST gives me like 90% of the screen to work with, instead of having a ton of stuff all over the sides of the screen (not really sure about PC in this regard)
 
Okay then, thanks everyone for the advice.
 
@unutbu we have an expanding list of duplicate targets here: sopython.com/canon
If you want to suggest a better target, or add a new one, let us know, we want to improve the list!
 
I haven't found (nor looked much) anything yet for creating templated files in ST, however, I don' t think it's as important for a language like python as compared to a language like Java
 
We should think about allowing people to suggest questions who haven't been put on The List.
Or is that already on Trello?
 
7:24 PM
I think it's already on the board in some form.
 
DSM
@Johndt6: that's probably right. I never find myself wanting an IDE in Python, but I think it'd be very frustrating to program in some other languages without one.
 
@Ffisegydd btw one nice thing found about vw :D
 
@davidism: That's a great idea and a great list. I'm sure I'll be using it a lot.
 
Oooh, actually it does have "Snippets" which seem kinda cool
 
@Antti orly?
 
7:24 PM
using logloss algorithm,
the doc does not say what the labels need to be...
they must be -1, 1 or floatmax
if any other label is given, the vowpal assert fails and throws sigabrt :d
 
Ah yeah I found that one out following an example.
I didn't follow it properly and tried 0, 1 and failed :P
 
but like wtf, it is like
unlogged assertion that just kills the whole process :D
I needed to attach gdb to find out why...
 
USER ERROR
 
#3 0x00007f65598eeef2 in __GI___assert_fail (assertion=0x7f655a2361c8 "label == -1.f || label == 1.f || label == 3.40282346638528859812e+38F", file=0x7f655a236135 "loss_functions.cc",
line=174, function=0x7f655a236220 "virtual float logloss::getLoss(shared_data*, float, float)") at assert.c:101
#4 0x00007f655a22afc2 in logloss::getLoss(shared_data*, float, float) () from /usr/lib/libvw.so.0
#5 0x00007f655a210c63 in GD::local_predict(vw&, GD::gd&, example*) () from /usr/lib/libvw.so.0
#6 0x00007f655a2110a3 in GD::predict(vw&, GD::gd&, example*) () from /usr/lib/libvw.so.0
certainly not the most userfriendly program
 
the one thing that I really dislike about sublime, is when you make a new file you have to save it to give its name. I like how you do that before you edit the file in atom
 
ah now I get 5 percent label ratio :P
 
Ooh, I got a nice answer badge. Ew, it was for an answer that had all the same content as an earlier answer by someone else, but with somewhat nicer composition.
 
oh hey, fancy
 
@davidism my boss isn't in tomorrow. I'm gonna hit 5k. Just an FYI.
:P
I don't care if you beat me (much). But need to beat the puppy.
 
7:35 PM
Yeah, I actually have to get work done sometimes.
 
I had to do work today :(
 
It's a motivator, it's not important. But beat the puppy.
 
I enjoy beating puppies.
 
I could flood SO with flask questions. Let the hunt begin...
 
oo that reminds me. @Ffisegydd Pycharm pro: Saves all files on loss of focus. No need to be pressing Ctrl + S all the time
 
7:38 PM
Wat. No.
 
DSM
@Ffisegydd: and I was just making sure the safety was off. Oh, well, back to work for me.
 
Why hasn't this question been flooded with a million near-duplicate answers explaining how to convert a string to an integer?
I don't understand today's fast gunners.
 
It said tkinter in the title.
So I ran away and hid in the cupboard under the stairs.
 
@Humdinger I regularly restart/shutdown my computer, leaving unsaved files open, and they're always there when I get back. Pretty sure its safe :P ST is very good about saving your open work space
 
what I feel like trying to answer stack overflow questions
 
7:41 PM
There's also plenty of times that I don't want to save my files o-o
 
no doge, that's ancient history by internet standards
 
@Johndt6 SAFE yes, but loss of focus is convinient. How many times have you gone to do something only to realize you forgot to save your files? (like git, etc.)
@Johndt6 Why would you not want to save them?
 
Never mind, it's not an easy "convert string to integer" question. It's secretly a "teach me all about event-driven programming" question
 
okay, weird question... is it possible to "break up" bootstrap in such a way that every feature is more or less separate, then include only the parts which are used on every page?
 
Cus' I might be very messily messing around with some code that I will probably not want to keep, and I don't want to accidentally push it to my repo or something if I forget about it
@corvid Pretty sure yes, using Bootstrap's less files
 
7:43 PM
@corvid theoretically yes.
 
but it will be worse performance, because you'll send a bunch of little files instead of one file that will be cached
 
DSM
Caused by: java.io.NotSerializableException: com.google.gwt.event.shared.HandlerManager: but of course.
 
@Johndt6 Have you heard about git branches... That is what they are for
 
oh yeah... touche. Does flask-bootstrap include the "advanced" features like modals and popovers?
 
flask bootstrap just provides regular bootstrap
I don't use it though, I like my own macros more
 
7:44 PM
@Humdinger Oh, I know, but for a small project and making small changes I quite often don't branch. Or working on a branch and not wanting to make a bunch of sub-branches
 
@DSM gwt? Ewww.. gross..
 
My company was all about GWT when I started, but I think they've mostly moved away from it for new contracts.
 
@Johndt6 Maybe you should be more tidy about your code messing :p
 
I'm not really sure, I've been on the only two Python projects for years now.
Both of which I started because I didn't like GWT.
 
@Humdinger Perhaps :) But I do think there are probably legitimate use cases for not wanting your code to save automatically (although I agree it's a very nice feature to have!)
 
7:48 PM
@Johndt6 Honestly, I have used IntelliJ for about 3 years now, and have not yet ran into that use case where I was mad it saved my file. In fact for about the first year, I didn't even realize it was happening.
 
I'm not a huge fan of flask bootstrap myself, tbh. I'm making my own flask extension.
 
@Johndt6 But, your right, i am sure there is a good use case
 
For example, say you have a plugin which automatically does something to the project every time you save (such as building the project), then you might not want it automatically saving
 
Correct ratio 0.9128, correct HAM 0.9574 (/51546) correct SPAM 0.8871 (/89455)
 
@Johndt6 I feel like that plugin would cause many problems, because you wouldn't want to save until a feature was complete and not tested
@Johndt6 Honestly, the pain of loading a file from disk and throwing one away without saving is more cumbersome than just rolling back
@Johndt6 Thanks to Ctrl + Z
 
7:52 PM
But they do have them: sublime.wbond.net/search/on%20save (however, most it wouldn't really matter when you save, such as tabs to spaces)
 
@Johndt6 Very interesting...
@Johndt6 I could see it being a headache with something such as : Simple Sublime Text 2 Plugin that checks the syntax of ruby files after you save them
that and auto-save wouldn't go well together
 
DSM
Okay, so using Firebug to inspect a datastructure that I printed to console is kind of fun.
 
would it theoretically be faster to have the backend inject all the css styles directly into an html page and then send it? (and javascript too)
 
@Humdinger Oh yeah, that would be annoying! I didn't see that it showed a popup
 
@corvid Based on TCP packet slicing, no. You would just have one bloated file
 
7:56 PM
Anyways... I feel PyCharm is great, but I think the wiki page should be a bit more balanced
 
@Johndt6 Part of the problem is that I offered most of the pycharm suggestions, and I swear by pycharm :p But feel free to offer improvement ideas to Ffisegydd for updates on ST
 
Yeah yeah any more suggestions are welcome.
Ideally it will be balanced so people can make their own decision
I mean we all know IDLE is the best amirite?
 
True, true
 
lol
 
A question where someone has actually provided their raw data. Give that man a medal.
 
DSM
7:59 PM
Aargh. We definitely have to provide a rich "here's-why-not-to-use-IDLE" section.
 
@Ffisegydd vw is actually reaaally fast
 
We also need the input of a PyDev user
 
@Ffisegydd feed 141000 tweets in less than 2 minutes
and considering that it is my python that is slow
 
~1000 tweets per second? Damn.
 
bc I do json parses, datastructure manips, tokenizations,
calculate metrics etc...
and i used the active learning, only needed to teach it 20000 of these tweets and now got 95.3 % ham correctly labelled as ham vs 88 % spam correctly labelled as spam
which means less spam to handlabel in next step and huge savings for crowdsourcing
 
8:04 PM
I've got a question to ask about design patterns for this kind of thing actually which you may be able to answer, I'll probably ask it tomorrow once I've had more time to think about it.
 
this was just a first test
surprising that it works
that well
 
Where is all this ham and spam?
 
in Python ofc
 
It's more about machine learning in general and how you design things
 
I am not an expert, but
 
8:06 PM
spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, wonderful spam
 
nltk and maximum entropy classifier, then just calculate matrixes for 10 hours and get 75 % classified correctly :P
 
Is there an easy way to instantiate a class declared later in the file?
 
Yeah so basically my question is, say I have several (possibly dozens and dozens) of functions which can be used to retrieve features from tweets, how do you easily choose which functions to use in a particular model (say you wanted to change your model around to look at different combinations or whatever). I was thinking about keeping them in a dictionary (as then the key could be used as a label in the VW possibly).
 
@Ffisegydd i didnt :P
 
DSM
@Johndt6: you don't really declare things in Python, though. The class Whatever: line is executed. It's either already been executed when you try to refer to Whatever, wherever the line of code is located in the file, or it hasn't. If it has, you can instantiate it. If it hasn't, you can't.
 
8:10 PM
I put loads of features into this
 
@DSM :( I'm trying to get a management command working in Django, and I think a possible reason why it isn't working is because my Command class is declared after a couple of other classes which it uses. However, this very well may not be the problem. It's most likely just a path issue or something...
 
@Ffisegydd there is screenname, is retweet or not, upper-lowercase ratio, linked domains, number of domains linked, length, length after cleaning, and bag of words + punctuation tokens, with stopwords and single . , ? ! # / ... etc removed.
if we are to have a list of what posts to close we surely can use anything like that :P
 
on the virtualenv command, is there a way to set the default --python option to something different?
 
@Ffisegydd by default the vw follows 2¹⁸ different features, adjustable
 
Yeah I've seen that bits argument.
Need to control it to avoid hash collisions
 
8:14 PM
no need to avoid :P
you can
but, it does not matter much
 
DSM
@Johndt6: I don't know about Django, but you can write class Fred: def __init__(self): self.something = Bob() and then define class Bob: later in the file. You can't write class Fred(Bob): if Bob comes later, though. It's all about the execution path (the __init__ won't happen until later, etc.)
 
@corvid beyond an alias, not that I know of
 
but
rhubarb
..zzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
 
rbrb dude
 
@DSM Ah, then that'll probably work. Could of sworn that you couldn't do that... Just goes to show how much I know. Still, doubt it's the actual problem...
For anyone who does know Django
Is my configuration
Darn it... spaces didn't copy
 
DSM
8:17 PM
As long as you think of class something: as a command which is executed, and not a declaration, you won't go far wrong.
 
That's my project directory... running ./manage.py stupid_command yields an Unkown Command error
@DSM Thanks, I'll give it a shot
 
DSM
.. you misspelled "stupid".
 
^Hmmm wonder why :P
Yeah, that didn't work
I also forgot to include that my manage.py command is within the main project/ directory
 
DSM
aargh I forgot public. So used to not having to care much.
 
Dang, a question got deleted from under me while I was writing a comment.
Comment, I release thee into the void: "pairing up integers is O(N^2) whether you do cool modulus tricks or not."
 
8:24 PM
man. Cordova and phonegap are pretty frustrating.
 
DSM
Kevin: what kind of pairing? {x: x for x in seq} is O(N).
 
Damn OP found the answer to his own question from the same answer I found the answer to his question from!
 
DSM
Someone's learning on his own! Quick, let's downvote him, before we get any more competition!
 
would there be any reason for a JSONP XHR proxy service to load fine, but not just the regular service?
 
Jun 19 at 18:07, by DSM
I've been trying to guess what Crow's working on from his questions.
I still can't figure it out.
 
8:35 PM
I usually work on ~5 things at a time, right now making a iPhone app
 
DSM
@davidism: what an odd sentence to stick in the memory. But I guess it's a common thing to wonder..
 
Holy crap, my main Django app wasn't in INSTALLED_APPS o-o (DISCLAIMER: I did not start this project)
How had that not caused any problems up until now? lol
 
I have a suspected Iranian OP who is having encoding issues in matplotlib.
 
Here it goes
Now that my command is found... I'm sorta afraid to run it... I've been working on it for a few days now, and I don't expect it to fail elegantly...
 
uh, what does the first have to do with the second?
 
8:40 PM
The issue is that matplotlib is using their locale to choose what the months should look like
If he was British then January would be January, if he was German then it'd be Januar.
And I think he's getting encoding problems because it's trying to write it in Persian
 
If it was American it would be "that disappointing cold month after Christmas"
 
But he won't reply >.<
 
DSM
Do we have any Farsi speakers around?
 
hi guys, i have a quick question: how to find differences between two tables: I have tried EXCEPT sqlfiddle.com/#!5/f7f45/1, but it does not work for all cases. Any ideas?
 
He's confirmed it's Persian. Which doesn't really help me as I don't know how to fix it anyway.
stackoverflow.com/questions/25295480/… in case anyone wants to have a crack at it.
 
DSM
8:48 PM
" Thank you so much changing default language helped and problem solved"
Sounds like you were helpful after all!
 
Yeah :P
I wonder if Python 3.4 would handle it any easier.
 
9:06 PM
I've answered it anyway just so there's an answer for people in the future.
Plus I'm rather proud of it :P only guessed it was that because the website he used to host his example image had an Iran TLD.
 
DSM
Not pretty: ArrayList<HashMap<String, ArrayList<HashMap<String, Double>>>>
 
 
1 hour later…
10:15 PM
Ok python guru's what do you think about this statement?
> The try/except statement is more expensive. Raising an exception is slow.
If raising exceptions is slow, why is it the more pythonic way to do things?
 
python isn't so much about speed as it is about readability
 
So your saying it is slower to throw an exception but we dont care even though an if else is just as readable?
 
well, there are options... like both of these would work the same:
 
but isn't a try/except more 'pythonic'? and therefore more excepted?
 
I think it's about doing something with the error that you receive
 
10:19 PM
hmm... ok
So in regards to the statement, is raising an exception actually much more expensive?
 
I think it's more expensive, relative to an if statement
 
user559633
writing in c++ feels like computering so hard
 
user559633
not sure i'm ready to take the productivity hit of going to C
 
@tristan That is why it depends on how you define "expensive"
@tristan Most people are moving away from C because they have realized that user and system time is no longer the most expensive resource, but Developer time is
 
Hi guys, sorry to interrupt. Do you know of any python project which keeps two versions of a project, one for python2 and one for python3?
I have a package for python2 and if I want to make it work in python3 I have to make a few changes. My main concern is that I want to support both versions but I don't know how to let pypi know that one package is designed for python2 and the other for python3
 
user559633
10:36 PM
@Humdinger sure, but python is too slow without "cheating" and using C imports for things like real time network processing
 
@jmlopez there is a py2to3 library that can convert all your code over
@jmlopez Alternatively you could refactor your code to use the six library
That would allow a single code base to work for both versions
For a pypi package I highly recommend just using six so that both versions are supported without any changed
you might want to use a CI like Travis CI to verify it works on both versions
 
user559633
i'd just append a 3 at the end of the python3 version :)
 
I was looking numpy. Do they have only one version which supports python2 and python3?
It seems to though as they have 2 separate versions, in the pypi page they have "Py Version". One of them is cp27, cp33 and cp34
How is done?
this8
*
 
They have a compatible code base
it is compatible with 2.6+
OH, I see what your getting at
you do that with wheels
 
So with wheels I would be able to work on two different versions of the project and upload them to pypi?
I'm not planning on making it compatible with python3 right now, but I just want to have an idea if this is possible for the future
 
10:50 PM
python setup.py bdist wheel
yes, it is possible. However, I would HIGHLY recommend you make a single code base compatible with all versions
You can do this by depending on the six library
 
I haven't heard of this library. Let me check it out. It would be nice if the code could work in all versions but at this point I'm not even sure if the code works in python3 because now I have to deal with strings and bytes.
and that, is giving me a headache. That's why I'm trying to separate the two versions, at least until I get everything working on python3
 
step 3 to step 4... what does that even mean? developer.blackberry.com/html5/documentation/v1_0/…
 
@jmlopez six is pretty awesome. It will let you do this on both versions. Then you don't need two versions
@corvid there are a lot of step3, 4's on that page. Which section?
 
I'm checking it out right now. I'm really going to revise everything, hopefully six will take care of this. Thanks
 
@Humdinger installing
 
10:57 PM
so step 3 says open your google chrome web browser, and go to extensions
step 4 says to open to the file location on your computer
most likely your "downloads" folder
 
weird, I just downloaded it from the chrome store I guess that's why
 
ya, if you downloaded it from the chrome store than all installation should be handled
I used ripple a long time ago...
Its decent..
 
not sure what else to use. Trying to make cordova and phonegap work
 
@Humdinger raising and handling exceptions is slow because it results in setting up a stack trace (even if you don't use it). If you expect the exception will happen more than the normal case, consider "pre-checking" if the exception will happen (such as if 'my_key' in my_dict: instead of try: my_dict['my_key']`).
 
@davidism great advice. Thanks
 
11:07 PM
In other words, normally "it is better to ask forgiveness than permission", but in some cases the opposite is true.
 
@corvid Honestly, when I was using it, I eventually just used the emulators made by the companies themselves, such as the android emulator from the google android sdk, but I never had to worry about blackberry, I am not sure if they have an emulator or not
 
not sure how to start up the google emulator for android and make it work, tbh
 
lol, ya its fairly complex.
 
If you can't get that far, you may not be in a good position to program an app...
 
meh, I started like 3 hours ago
 
11:10 PM
The easiest way is with eclipse or android studio. Otherwise, you have to download the sdk, then run the "android" script, create an avp, then run it
 
On Arch, you just install android-tools and android-sdk-platform-tools, use the manager to install the emulator image, and launch the image.
 
I have the android tools and all of that set up, I just don't get where the emulator image is
 
You don't need to know where the image is, there's just some command you run.
I guess I'll install it again to see.
 
oh. That was actually really easy
 
11:46 PM
hiya, guys i having trouble with sending email
socket errror
when i trying to send email via gmail
 
like... on gmail, or in some kind of python logger/application?
 
oh, sorry
i do it through flask-email
 
can you post the traceback and the app.config data you put for flask-mail?
 
yes
MAIL_SERVER = 'smtp.gmail.com'
MAIL_PORT = '465'
MAIL_USERNAME = 'infermer.confirm@gmail.com'
MAIL_PASSWORD = 'pwd'
MAIL_USE_SSL = True
MAIL_USE_TLS = False
 
ah, mail port is a string? I believe that is your problem. Try making it an integer.
 
11:52 PM
myy gosh...
seven ate nine
nope, still getting socket error
 
change your mail server to smtp.googlemail.com
 
again, socket error D:
 
not entirely sure... are you reading from this tutorial? blog.miguelgrinberg.com/post/…
 
even with 587 port
ah, sorry, i've forget about miguel ((
 

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