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01:00 - 17:0017:00 - 00:00

5:25 PM
I've issued a PR with God to turn the yamming thermostat down but he refuses to acknowledge it.
I'm tempted to just fork reality and make my own cooler.
 
Maybe you did fork reality. How would you tell?
 
@Ffisegydd I knew him, he is a very unreliable fellow, if I were you, I would start it from scratch, it is not worth the extra effort to clean up his mess
 
@Ffisegydd God's in the garden having a Mojito... shall I give him a yell? (He is a little tipsy though...)
 
besides, it is not even a big thing, he only implemented it in 7 days.. big deal.
 
And he did it mostly in perl.
 
5:29 PM
Ah yeah good points all.
Looks like sopython has it's next project sorted...let's remake reality...and let's make it cold.
 
@Kevin that explains a lot, doesn't it?
@Ffisegydd SoPython, OpenCabbage, Reality.. so many things to do..
@Kevin anyway, the best detail in that xkcd is the "Oh, my God, it is full of 'car's"
that is just one of the best lines of xkcd, really
 
I'm pretty impressed by the Universe because, since every particle exerts a gravitational pull on every other particle, its physics runs with O(n^2) complexity.
 
@PeterVaro I saw that.... Cool reference :)
 
Considering N is equal to "the number of particles with mass in the observable universe", it must be running on some pretty beefy hardware to ever get anywhere
 
@Kevin FTL computing held in subspace?
 
5:34 PM
@Kevin or, it is just super-optimised, and what we don't watch is not rendered
it is calculated on the fly -- which ofc lead us to the question of non/deterministic nature of the universe
because if it is -- it would be quite easy to calculate only the portion of stuffs which are being watched at any given time frame
 
That would be pretty tricky. Prehistoric man looks up into the sky for the first time. It has no stars, since they were never needed before. How long does it take for them to appear? 4.37 years for alpha centauri and more for the more distant ones?
Or would they create the light "already in transit", a la Last Thursdayism?
 
@Kevin exactly.
@Ffisegydd Bohr vs Einstein? Copenhagen Interpretation?
Many worlds theory?
help us out, buddy, we are in trouble..
 
Bohr.
I subscribe to the many worlds theory though
Though it's an easy theory to believe in because it's pretty unprovable IIRC :P
 
like the last-thursdayism -- the best kinds of all
 
Many worlds disturbs me because it means that there are countless alternate versions of me, a countless fraction of which are in mortal peril right now.
 
5:41 PM
rbrb
 
@Kevin I guess the whole quantum physics is disturbing
rhubarb @JonClements
 
Yes but there are countless versions of you where you're currently Dictator Of The World.
 
Furthermore, consider the theory of Quantum Immortality. Whenever you face a lethal situation, your consciousness moves into a branch where you survive. But this only applies to you, the observer; so anyone else can still die. The logical conclusion being, you will inevitably come to be alone on a dying Earth.
It's not even a fun form of immortality since it confers no immunity to pain, illness, disability, etc.
 
probably I'm the weird guy here, but I don't think it is a bad form of immortality at all
 
I once read an idea that actually we're all the same soul and when you die you are simply reincarnated and live another life (reincarnationg being able to span space as well as time)
 
5:46 PM
That's similarly disturbing. Do you know how many bad things have happened to people in all of history? Do you look forward to all of that happening to you?
 
I don't fancy these reincarnation theories -- they sounds gibberish to me
 
What's more disturbing is that effectively mean you're talking to yourself ;)
 
(although, it's not so bad, since statistically speaking, with no other information being given, you're probably about halfway through it already)
 
@Ffisegydd I always do that anyway;)
 
Yes but you're also replying...with 2 different voices...
 
5:48 PM
oh the voices.. yeah..
:D
 
One of your voices thinks it's a small yellow puppy.
 
anyway, bbl
rhubarb
~
 
cabbage... rhubarb... monty python?
 
Popular media update: I read Bryan Lee O Malley's Seconds over the weekend. I give it a B.
 
5:52 PM
I'm 4/7 books through The Dark Tower series. Damn good.
 
+ Interesting premise
- unsympathetic protagonist
- predictable conclusion
 
DSM
All heap blocks were freed -- no leaks are possible
 
suuuuuure.
 
yams
40,200 errors from 30 contexts... god
 
Pah.
We used to have competitions in my FORTRAN class on who could get the most outlandish error.
One of my friends got an error so bad that it actually crashed the server.
 
6:02 PM
Who won...
LOL
I always thought those sneaky ways in C to get recursion were pretty outlandish
like overwriting a for loop counter with an off-by-one error...wacky
 
sopython should die at some point in the next while, if it happens please let me know
 
6:23 PM
Aaaaaaaannnddd is anyone around?
Can you check sopython.com ?
Does it look new and shiny?
 
it does :)
 
looks awesome.
but I already said that before
 
:D
 
those beautiful visualizations...
how are they made?
 
Thanks for all your work on this @davidism, it looks damn good.
 
6:25 PM
is the site open source?
 
yay
I suppose the new site is in the ng branch?
 
Yeah
 
I'll merge that into master in a couple minutes, need to finish something at work first.
 
I can do it now
git branch -f master ng right?
 
6:28 PM
I want to make some other last minute changes for release too.
 
Ah ok then
 
nice decorator
will borrow that.
 
Need to expand it to handle json responses and other status codes
 
@davidism is there a way to list all users currently in approved?
 
from sopy.auth.models import Group
Group.query.filter_by(name='approved').one().users
get the group by name and access it's users collection
 
6:36 PM
Ta. And that's within sopy shell?
 
I'll add a management page at some point.
Yes, in the shell
 
@Ahmad I've added you to the approved list so if you want to add/edit any of the common questions or add anything to the wiki, then feel free.
If you find any bugs or anything then ping us to let us know.
 
@Ffisegydd nice! thanks :D
will do
 
Update the room desc.
sopython.com/chatroom isn't working
 
@vaultah ta
room topic changed to Python: The *productive programming cabbage. Please do other members the courtesy of reading sopython.com/pages/chatroom [python] [python-2.7] [python-2.x] [python-3.3] [python-3.4] [python-3.x]*
 
6:40 PM
 
Yep, but the description was pointing to the old page :)
 
aah I see :)
 
@vaultah I've added you to the approved group too.
 
Oh, thanks :)
 
@Ffisegydd @davidism cool work guys :)
 
6:59 PM
@JonClements can you help me on a little something?
 
@Peter I can try...
 
it doesn't matter how I google it, can't find the proper answer
why does indirect pointer to pointer to type passed to pointer to pointer to void generates a warning?
(so eg.: float** passed to void**)
I found answers for qualifiers of pointer to pointer to types, but this is not the same thing..
 
umm.... what's the actual warning?
 
incompatible-pointer-type
when it is not indirected (float* to void*) that is okay, as I expect it
but not with indirection..
 
DSM
.. but aren't they incompatible? I mean, void** isn't a pointer to a pointer to anything, it's a pointer to something of type void*.
 
7:06 PM
@DSM sounds feasible...
 
@DSM then what exactly is the workaround here, when you want to make it work for any kind of pointers?
wait a minute I have an idea ;)
nope, it's not working...
 
DSM
Do you have a concrete example of what you're trying to do?
E.g. void * by itself works as a pointer to anything. If that anything happens to be something of type void *, that's fine.
 
one sec @DSM I create a quick dummy code
 
DSM
Aside: in the current test code for the Java project I'm working on, you have to click one button five times before it brings up the main windows, and then in Easter-egg fashion you have to click on one particular toggle switch before it brings up a graph. I'm telling myself this is so I can ensure I've got the event syntax right.
 
@DSM something like this:
    typedef struct s
    {
        int id;
        char data[];
    } S;

    static void
    func(S *s, void **data)
    {
        *data = s->data;
    }

    int main(void)
    {
        S *s = malloc(sizeof(S) + sizeof(float));
        if (!s) return EXIT_FAILURE;

        s->id = 0;
        memcpy(s->data, &(float){12.44}, sizeof(float));

        float *f;
        func(s, &f);
        printf("%f\n", *f);

        return 0;
    }
(it may look too complicated, but note, that this is a dummy version of an otherwise way more complex problem)
main.c:65:13: warning: incompatible pointer types passing 'float **' to parameter of type 'void **' [-Wincompatible-pointer-types]
    func(s, &f);
            ^
 
7:25 PM
Well.. void** and void*s are distinct, right? I thought the generality that void* brings does not carry over to void**
 
@Al.Sal well, it looks like not -- but the questions are: 1) why not? 2) how to manage things like this to work?
 
DSM
I don't see how to get this particular pattern to work the way you want it to.
 
and can you explain why it is not working?
I mean, it is working
just generates a warning..
 
I think it's because while void* can be safely cast to whatever, void** doesn't have that special functionality so it raises a warning. After all, void** just a pointer to a void pointer, not a void pointer itself
but there's probably some sort of casting magic... like... change the parameter to void *data
 
I did that yeah, and that solves the problem
however if you have the function prototype
it won't be easy to find out what exactly is the function is looking for
 
7:39 PM
yeah, that's pretty annoying. what about...
well more than annoying just plain misleading
 
is a it a bare pointer -- not, it just looks like one, but actually it is a pointer to pointer
@Al.Sal also, if you pass a pointer to type, while under the hood it is casted to pointer to pointer to type or something
 
I'm decent with non-GUI Java, but Python beginner. Hello :)
 
you know what else solves the problem? casting in the function call func(s, (void**)&f); and leaving the prototype as is
 
it will lead to segfaults
 
cabbage @aliteralmind
 
7:40 PM
Cabbage :)
 
cabbage @aliteralmind
 
@Al.Sal yeah, however tbh it is not a too sexy API
 
Question: I'm starting with the Python tutorial, and am getting a syntax error at the very first example
 
lol Peter can you rephrase that 'also' because that is too many "to"s for me to handle
 
anyway, @Al.Sal and @DSM thanks for the help
 
7:41 PM
I put this into a file named working.py
 
user559633
and the error is....@aliteralmind?
 
the_world_is_flat = 1
if the_world_is_flat:
    print "Be careful not to fall off!"
 
Are you using Python 3?
 
[R:\jeffy\programming\sandbox\python\working]python working.py
  File "working.py", line 3
    print "Be careful not to fall off!"
                                      ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
341
 
DSM
@Al.Sal: I'm not sure that's portable.
 
7:42 PM
Because the tutorial you're using is for Python 2 :)
 
Version 3.41
 
user559633
yeah, wrap print in parenthesis, then move to the proper tutorial @aliteralmind docs.python.org/3/tutorial/interpreter.html#interactive-mode
 
That'll do it!
 
DSM
If only all questions were so straightforward. :)
 
I see the version drop-down at the top.
 
7:43 PM
true that
 
Starting over. Thank you.
 
:)
 
user559633
no problem, new buddy
 
You've made the right decision btw! Using Python 3 :D
 
user559633
lies.
 
DSM
7:44 PM
Truth!
 
user559633
yeah okay, maybe.
 
user559633
this project that i'm doing is python 2.7.8 and c++ :D
 
DSM
I'd switch just for sane string handling and itertools.accumulate. Everything else is gravy.
 
7:58 PM
Any interactive python shell recommendations, beyond the one that is installed with Python itself?
 
DSM
IPython for the win.
 
@aliteralmind IPython
 
Ahhh... opening ceremony time...
 
pip is really neat. Django installed with a single python command.
 
DSM
I like a good caber toss.
 
8:02 PM
And now IPython...
 
Yeah pip is one of the best parts of Python, so useful.
 
IPython is a new Python language
 
No it's just an interpreter
 
Oh... okay
I thought Apple made IPthon - Lol
Ipod and all that other I stuff
 
It's an interesting opening ceremony to say the least... :p
 
8:07 PM
Well gotta go again
Be back next year
 
DSM
We'll hold the fort.
 
This pdf reference is excellent. Is there one for 3.4?
 
Never seen it before but it looks excellent.
 
user559633
bpython
 
user559633
8:14 PM
:)
 
bipython!
 
(which is only compatible with Python 2.7)
 
@aliteralmind that looks more confusing than the official docs, and at 41 pages is not a "quick ref"
Just use the docs :)
 
@davidism Got it.
Okay, so trying %edit in IPython, it opens my text editor (TextPad), but it's a read-only document. I expected to be able to type in code, close it, and then it would run.
I unchecked the read only, but got a "sharing violation" when trying to save it.
 
Guys, should I answer it with the contents of my comment?
0
Q: Python equivalent to VB "with" block

ReinderienVB (and C99 and C#, actually) have a way to set multiple attributes on one object with a contracted syntax where you don't have to repeat the object name before "." . Is there a way to do this in Python without having to loop over a dictionary, calling setattr on each item? Something like obj.u...

Pythonistas will blame me for using __dict__
obj.__dict__.update({'attr1': 'foo', 'attr2': 'bar'})vaultah 2 mins ago
 
8:25 PM
Meh. when the OP asks me to answer, I do so.
 
DSM
I prefer vars(obj) to obj.__dict__. Looks prettier.
 
The queen always looks so fed up when listening to "God Save The Queen"... mind you - she's probably heard it quite a few times by now :p
 
DSM
Oh, well. If someone beats you to writing up an answer, and it's at least the equal of and probably better than the one you were writing, you should be happy, I guess.
 
2 answers already :D
Correction, 3 answers already
 
Wow... the background TV they're using is 10m tall/95m wide - largest one in Europe or something
(apparently weighs 300 tons)
 
DSM
8:39 PM
Jings, crivens, help ma boab!
 
Crivens, the 'first question' post is going gold too?
Meta is a crazy place.
 
8:54 PM
@Martijn have you only just realised that? :p
 
@JonClements Different crazy; gold rush crazy, not just a looney bin.
 
DSM
And they're the people who set the rules we play by.
Go figure!
 
I was quite surprised when it was about 60.... guess it just didn't stop :(
 
9:07 PM
Alright, it's bed time
rbrb
 
@vaultah night!
 
user559633
logger question - how do i pass a strftime to the logging init formatTime method off the Formatter object?
 
user559633
e.g.
console_format = logging.Formatter('%(asctime)s :: %(name)s - %(message)s').formatTime(datefmt="%H:%M:%S")

hits the method in Formatter(), but demands a record. I don't know the record because the record occurs on the logmsg
 
user559633
NEVERMIND IM A MASSIVE JERK
 
Sorry - was focusing on the games :) You solved it, I take it?
 
user559633
9:13 PM
console_format = logging.Formatter('%(asctime)s :: %(name)s - %(message)s', "%H:%M:%S")

will ostensibly set me right
 
hm. Do y'all have any experience with xlwt? I copy paste the created spreadsheet into another excel doc, but the xlwt size is 3x as big for the same thing. No other sheets or anything
 
DSM
I've used it a bit, but I haven't paid much attention to file size.
 
user559633
@Al.Sal are you writing everything to the same revision of the sheet?
 
user559633
and what is the raw output?
 
user559633
you should be able to diff the files to see what's going on
 
9:28 PM
No, to test it out I'm deleting the spreadsheet in the output folder, running, and then bam oversize excel spreadsheet. it never grows after multiple runs though
and that's a good idea... like a REALLY good idea
 
user559633
 
user559633
hey thanks @Al.Sal. every now and then i come through
 
lol I feel dumb for not thinking of that
 
user559633
eh. you can be too close to a problem.
 
user559633
don't beat yourself up over it, it's really not a big deal :)
 
user559633
 
great song
and FC (god damn it) reveals dwarf fortress looking trash... ughhh. I feel like it it's some encoding issue
i am not going to worry about this; rather, I'm going to go home and roast some coffee beans. Rhubarb y'all
 
user559633
souds good. take care @Al.Sal
 
user559633
9:51 PM
later all :)
 
10:26 PM
@Ffisegydd development guidelines to keep things sane: trello.com/c/cHn3e1Xs/47-git-branches-and-versions
 
10:42 PM
what's a word for something that is tastelessly over the top?
 
tacky
 
DSM
I might use "garish".
 
garish is what I was thinking, but it's for something that's excessively dark. Garish kinda connotates that it's overly regal or shiny for some reason
 
DSM
Oh, so you don't mean like 1970s clothing, you mean like thematically dark?
 
yeah, specifically the context is The Divine Inferno by Dante Alligheri. Just seems over-the-top dark and doom-and-gloom.
 
DSM
10:49 PM
Nothing's coming to mind, which of course doesn't prove much. :)
 
nothing came to my mind either, I feel like someone named "crow" should know a word for this
 
@Crow this doesn't really fit what you're looking for, but what the Divine Inferno actually is, to my mind, is pornography.
 
DSM
I'd probably say something was too macabre, or too Grand Guignol for my tastes.
 
Its primary purpose is not artistic merit, but titillation.
"hey, look at this well-known public figure! I've got him up to his armpits in hot sand! Ha ha ha!" etc.
 
DSM
Anyway, time to escape. Rhubarb to all!
 
10:58 PM
I just thought the whole story was all down notes, which kind of make it lose its power. Like when a song is all dissonant chords it doesn't sound like anything
 
In fairness the last part of the trilogy is more upbeat (if incredibly boring).
 
Paradiso? It kinda lost its steam and was a disappointing ending
 
I have to assume the poetry is better in the original Italian (in the translation I read, it was dreadful, but then poetry is hard to translate). In terms of any other reasonable critical measure, the whole thing is really very poor.
 
eh, too preachy and religious in a somewhat subtle way
 
Heh, I'm not going to criticise the guy for preachiness in a book whose theme is "You Should Be Good Because There's Some Nasty Stuff Waiting If You're Not" ... that is, after all, kinda the point :-)
 
11:09 PM
that's what's lame about history class from 100 AD - 1700 AD... waaaay too much religion
 
If you want to read a good ridiculously old Italian book, try The Prince. Macchiavelli knew what he was talking about.
 
read that one, it is really good
 
I saw an online quiz a few years back called something like "Which circle of Hell will you end up in?" IIRC I'm heading for the seventh.
 
violence? Exquisite choice, sir
 
11:24 PM
I can no longer remember what happens in the 7th circle ... it's been a while.
 
probably demons and stuff
 
Yeah ... that or an internet connection where every link is a rickroll ;-)
 
@Kevin have you watched Ender's Game?
 
nah, that's paradiso max level. The face of God is Rick Astley
 
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