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12:01 AM
@rchern Hmm?
 
there should be a multiplication problem you have to get right before you're allowed to flag something in chat
also, gotta love ruminations: "Somewhere, a smart Lasik surgeon has an office full of brochures that are all slightly out of focus."
 
@NickCraver sounds dangerous, multiplication is harder for some than you might think :p
 
@NathanTaylor - good, because flagging is too easy, this persistent little blue icon in the lower-left is annoying :)
 
@NathanTaylor press up-arrow and you can edit
 
@NickCraver Heh, that sounds like a good idea ;)
 
12:06 AM
I built a 'LogiCAPTCHA' for my .NET CMS, it only does addition though
 
Nice chat system
/me test
 
@GONeale It's not IRC ... sadly ...
 
which part of that is sad? :p
 
The fact that everything on the planet needs to be rebuilt as a JavaScript+HTML app running everything over HTTP to get around corporate firewalls? :P
 
@Bob thanks for the sql info earlier
 
12:20 AM
there's a script that at least lets you use irc style commands though
 
I hear it's really cool too.
cough
 
this really weird person started it. but then some awesome people chipped in (:
 
I have a strange feeling that the creator is probably less weird than the rest of the contributors, but kudos to all of them. :P
 
We should bribe @AidenBell to pin the link, heh.
 
12:28 AM
oooohhh good idea hehehe
 
Though the one about the FAQ doesn't seem to get much attention, so that might be a futile effort..
 
heh
 
12:46 AM
hi
does anyone else hate their job?
 
um no?
 
@Shiftbit tell us more...
 
my first programming job i was harassed by my supervisor, which is perhaps why I have a bad taste for programming.
I left that job and transfered to an engineering firm
ive been there for 4 weeks now and I just feel like I am in limbo
I read over their production code, I do a little research on some of their designs. I read over MSDN for classes I dont understand
but I just feel in limbo
 
Maybe because you are in limbo?
 
lol
 
12:55 AM
FYI, Stack Overflow is now hiring devs in NYC
6
 
maybe this is a stupid question: but have you talked to anyone at work about it?
 
no I havent. I will bring that up tomorrow.
 
i wouldn't declare you're in limbo, but you might want to broach the subject of finding something to do
sometimes a successful approach is by talking to others about what they're doing
 
get rich, stop working, go to hawaii, dance limbo...
2
 
@Shiftbit Doesn't look too bad. Most people live their entire work-life in a limbo and don't even ack that :)
 
1:10 AM
What do people think of the tag wikis? Do any of them have much useful information?
 
@Casebash I think they are supposed to explain what is on-topic and what is off-topic on the tag, and perhaps give some basic wikipedia link with a pointer to bootstrap wisedom. No more than that.
 
The C# one does a bit more: stackoverflow.com/tags/c%23/info
Although it doesn't define how it relates to similar tags such as .NET
 
Oh, never seen that "info? action for tags
where is it accessible from SO UI?
 
I don't think that So should be a coursware site .. there are a lot out there
 
Search for a tag
Then click the info tab
 
1:17 AM
What would you write in the "Math" wiki? The 5000 years of math history?
 
Hehe, really :-) thanks
 
I don't know. One thing you don't want to do is duplicate Wikipedia
 
exactly!
 
@belisarius Math is 2nd period and History is 4th period - they're unrelated
 
I think the main reason people wanted them at the start was to collect frequently asked questions
But there were already some questions that did that
And there is now a programatically generated FAQ
 
1:19 AM
@JamesKolpack Sorry, if it is a joke it escapes me
@Casebash Where is that?
_
 
@belisarius :) like, they're two separate classes in grade school
 
@JamesKolpack Ok, sorry. That is not the case in my country
 
there is a tab if you search for a tag
 
hello all
 
@Mark hi Mark
 
1:25 AM
:) just checking out these chatrooms..
 
@Casebash Found it. Do you know which criteria is used to select the questions that go there?
 
no penises so far...this is good.
 
Look down the bottom of the page
 
Hm, has anyone experienced any issues with code formatting in SO answers right after human validation captcha?
 
@Mark Sit down and relax :)
 
1:26 AM
@bel
 
I've got twice my identation missed after I entered captcha :-S
 
oops..
@belisarius got my beer..I'm relaxed :) (how do you complete a name when its displayed?)
@belisarius ah.. tab.
 
@Casebash mmm "Highly linked" ... I think that is ok for Google .... but here, not so sure
 
i find its quite annoying when you get a captcha just to EDIT your question to fix code formatting or a typo
 
Captcha's are too agressive
 
1:27 AM
@Mark yeap like in your preferred editor :)
 
Some times, I see how many Captcha's I can get correct in a row, 5 is my record!
2
 
hahaha..thats awful jaco
 
@jacobnlsn: uhm... i never filled captcha wrongly even though english is not my native :-S
 
@jacobnlsn Once had a post convered to CW ... after o many edits :)
 
those recaptchas are pretty hard tho.. does it even have to be completely correct? sometimes i have no clue what the lettters are supposed to be so i just guess..usually lets me pass
 
1:29 AM
@Mark: nope
@Mark: you have to guess only one word
 
@zekms: either word? or a specific one? i thought recaptcha worked by giving you one "known" word and one "unknown" word
 
@Mark: the google knows absolutely correctly only one word, and another one you are free to fill with any garbage :-)
yes
 
that is what i tried to say
 
@zerkms you are a god in my eyes!
 
1:30 AM
sometimes i'm convinced i got both wrong..oh well
 
@jacobnlsn: i said only about google captcha :-S
 
Well maybe I just suck at reading... or I try to hard and talk myself out of the correct spelling.
 
these chatrooms are pretty nice....did jeff custom code these, or is it open source?
 
I never seen something similar to theese chats - so I bet it is completely handwritten
 
cool cool..
 
1:38 AM
@belisarius have you read guys about "Suzette" chatbot? ;-)
 
@zerkms I am Suzette
 
gasp
 
@balpha and @MarcGravell wrote it
 
@zerkms Glad to meet you
 
has anyone ever been on stackoverflow and then gotten bored so they decided to go to stackoverflow?
 
1:40 AM
??
 
?_?
 
y'know....i check SO when i'm bored..but sometimes I forget that I'm already on SO...
nvm... I guess it's just me then.
 
:-S
I check SO when I'm bored at work )
 
@Mark
 
like now
 
1:42 AM
@MArk no i totally get it
 
I do too :)
I just got off work tho.
 
it is lunch time now and middle of the work day
 
@Mark when I board I go up to the browser and type in st and click the first link which is SO. But now its just a habit so when I am board on SO I try the same thing... Haha
 
@jacobnlsn haha..we're awful :)
 
its 4.30am :-)
 
1:45 AM
@SirLojik: why aren't you sleeping then?
 
@SirLojik where?? its almost 7pm here
 
12:45pm
 
kampala.....africa?
interesting..wouldnt imagine a lot of SOers over there
we're quite a diverse group here i guess
 
the most horrible country in the world: russia :-S
 
haha..nice. my best friend's from russia....well...belaruse anyway.
 
1:49 AM
yeah, the same cr*p :-)
 
<- canadian
my igloo's getting cold
 
canada is nice country, i wonder if i ever had a chance to migrate there
 
yeah...we let everyone in. very multicultural :)
actually different cities seem to be predominately one culture
 
yup kampala. we love SO
i love SO. mostly the reward system that works
 
1:53 AM
@zerkms thats crazy
 
I don't agree only with SO politics about downvotes
 
@SirLojik I know..it's clever eh? people want to answer questions just to get rep points which don't really do anything or cost anything to give away
 
I wish downvote takes both -10 on both sides
 
@zerkms no one would downvote then...how would that work?
 
the first time i joined SO i got a lot of those. but i guess they help you and others answer ur questions better by giving you a guide line for posting
 
1:54 AM
@zerkms i'm hestiant about losing my...what... 1 point? or 2?
 
@Mark: or -5 for downvoter, and -10 to the recipient
in other hand downvotes are not so "skary"
-2 is too few anyway
 
i doubt someone with 10k rep would care the least
 
@zerkms they shouldn't be too scary.. people shouldn't be too afraid of posting something controversial.. and they shouldn't immediately get destroyed for posting an incorrect answer.. 'least theyre trying
 
yes
 
yup
 
1:56 AM
@Mark: on the contrary - then downvotes will be only for really wrong answers
 
@Shiftbit but people with 10k are responsible and probably wont be receiving many downvotes
 
which are disappoints
because downvote become more expensive
 
@zerkms true.....but I think the incorrect answers or poorly worded answers do deserve some downvotes..
 
agree with incorrect, and don't with "poorly worded"
 
@zerkms i mean..not because their english isn't very good, but because they put in no effort
 
1:58 AM
for now it is true, but if "cost" of downvote increase - then downvotes imo will be more reasonable
 
@zerkms mostly referring to questions of the nature "plz help need codez"
 
hehehe
 
Neo
what's SO?
 
@Neo StackOverflow
 
stackoverflow?
 
Neo
1:59 AM
oh... duh :D
 
@Mark i wantz the codez
 
@Shiftbit you can't have em
 
d0 my h0mework pl3as3
 
@zerkms oh..okay..if you put it that way. sure
 
Neo
yeah poorly worded could be a result of second language speakers
 
2:01 AM
@Mark: i've seen one post decorated in such haxor style few days ago ))
 
@Neo yeah...but...generally we can see the difference between 2nd language and "i just don't care enough"
 
Hmm this is really a nice idea, webbased chat for SO :D
Hooray \o
 
plus.. 2nd langaugers usually end their Q with "sorry about the english"
 
Neo
@mark I mean it comes to down to wether it's helpfull or not.
 
to be clear - at most SO for me is the place where I can train my english, and just as second - a place where I can share my experience/ask questions
 
Neo
2:02 AM
@zerkms-1 train my english
 
i abuse SO :p
but that's another story. i'm off to play some SC2 :) g'nite guys
 
games are evil btw
 
Neo
yeah me too I have people do some of my homework
 
games are win.
 
Neo
but it's great
I spent years doing all this alone, no resources like this, so I actually know it;s value
 
2:05 AM
Well there were discussion forums and chat's before... But this format is more direct and keeping the records helps alot.
chats*
 
Neo
I don't know they just never worked for me. go through phpBB or vBulletin signup form to post something on some random website and get answers from people who don't know what they're talking about
 
Discussion board format is less direct and more straining, we work with tags, much better :p
 
Neo
yeah you can't compare this to those
 
Well I just came to take a look at this new webchat thingie, really cool. Gnight all
 
@Queops indeed
 
2:07 AM
;)
 
today an interesting discussion went by in the javascript room
 
Neo
(getType($this)==object)
 
but most of the time it's kinda dead :(
 
lol
 
Hello
 
2:08 AM
Hi
 
Neo
I was in the javacript all day today it was interesting
 
yeah I remember you dude
all that obfuscation shit
hehe
 
Neo
talking about that have you seen the new html5 replaceState where it lets you change the url without leaving the page
 
Hi, I'm completely new here.
 
Neo
it's crazy I hope it has some same-origin policy other-wise it's gonna bring a whole new generation of phishing
 
2:10 AM
@mootinator welcome to so chat
 
changing URL w/o leaving the page? The whole URL or just the querystring?
 
the whole url
 
Hi mootinator, so am I. /waves
 
yeah @Neo, phishing can go wild on this one.
 
2:12 AM
@Angelina Sweeeet.
 
Neo
they should have left the URL bar out of the dom
can't wait for all the zero-days
 
I thought they had... shame
 
Is it just me, or has the whole concept of separating application from document has gone right back out the window?
 
Neo
@mootinator are you talking to me?
 
Yes, sorry.
 
Neo
2:14 AM
it's not just you I've been waiting to wake up from a dream all day
@mootinator I'm confused, whose they? IETF?
oh ok, I get it now sorry :D
my bad
 
@Neo No problem.
 
Hey, this is the tavern is it not? Where's the beer?
It's been a long day of fixing SQL injections from past employees, heh.
 
Neo
fixing it from the database or the code
?
 
Mistakes so bad... it's hard to tell if they were incredibly negligent, or disgruntled employees.
Code
@Neo Literally hundreds of wide open accept-any-GET-parameters-and-send-them-to-the-DB
 
awesome stuff!
 
Neo
2:19 AM
I've been working on a project recently that was interesting, the code was so bad, I mean SQL injections everywhere but they database schema, queries, views, trigger were too professional I had to read over it over and over
 
I found an XSS attack against a busy site the other day by accident, that address-bar changing business makes that particular vulnerability that much more serious.
 
They had comments in this code such as, "This doesn't seem to work when we put quotes in the text box. Maybe we should buy a new database server."
 
@Brad lol
you should submit those to SO question "Best comments found in code"
345
A: What is the best comment in source code you have ever encountered?

martinus/** * Always returns true. */ public boolean isAvailable() { return false; } Never rely on a comment...

 
@PabloFernandez Cool, I didn't know there was one! Perhaps I will tomorrow morning.l
 
Neo
@mootinator well I showed you the address-bar thing why don't you show me your XSS attack... lol
 
2:21 AM
@Brad there you go. Some of them are very funny indeed
 
Neo
I'm guessing it was MSSQL ?
 
@PabloFernandez thanks!
 
Neo
I meant MS
 
@Neo Access :-D
 
Neo
same **
sh*T
 
2:23 AM
OMG access??
 
Neo
@PabloFernandez that's my favorite SO topic,
 
do they still use that crap?
 
@Neo It's on a popular microfinance site, and obvious if you use it at all, that's all I'll say ;)
 
@PabloFernandez Some people higher up the food chain won't have it any other way. In fact... they're currently blaming the problem on PHP/MySQL. They're convinced I am exaggerating the problems of past programmers. "--name-- was a genius!"
 
Neo
To me it's not about using it. I found a site today, a lot of users, dating, social network site, used an jQuery AJAX function to send GET data that was not being validated at all
I could erase the whole database
I didn't erase anything
 
2:25 AM
@Neo did you report it?
 
Neo
I just enjoy the logic
 
Have you guys seen the new tool out that makes it stupidly easy to hijack browser sessions? It is in the form of a Firefox extension. Just fire it up over your network adapter, and it sniffs away. One click and it imports all the necessary cookies.
 
Neo
what's it called?
@PabloFernandez why do you ask?
 
firesheep/
 
2:27 AM
@Neo Ah doesn't matter I reported it to them, looks like it's already fixed.
 
@Neo no reason
 
Things sure are a lot easier these days. :-D Back in my day we had to sniff that data up hill, both ways! And then when we were finished with that, we had to hack away at the...
 
@Brad that stuff is hardcore
@Brad do you know if it works over ethernet too?
 
@PabloFernandez How else would it work?
@PabloFernandez It utilizes Winpcap for the capture layer. Nothing fancy.
 
@Brad yea, haven't tried it yet on a wired network
 
2:30 AM
@PabloFernandez Well if you are using switches and not hubs, you won't see traffic from other ports. You'd either need to set up a monitor port on your switch, or put a cheap old hub in between your router and your switch, to catch it all.
@PabloFernandez If you plan to sniff over wireless, you need a card that will go into promiscuous mode. Otherwise, this is all academic.
 
@Brad yes, it works over wifi. I've tested it
Im using a macbook pro
 
@PabloFernandez Oh, well you're fine then. I didn't realize there was a mac version available.
 
Neo
@PabloFernandez is there a difference?
 
It's the same. Really cool extension IMHO
The c extensions are different
 
Neo
I'm running ubuntu, do I have to compile it myself?
 
2:33 AM
I don't know if it works on linux
 
Neo
I didn't find any firefox ad-on you can install easily
 
let me check...
there you go
 
Neo
just gitHub
 
Neo
this is so hillarious
 
2:34 AM
download that, then file --> open from firefox
then yes,yes,yes
then hack some sh*t up :)
it's funny
 
Neo
it's got a nice gui show's you facebook acounts. this would be fun at a university library
 
I work at a college. I've told students for years to be careful about what they do over WiFi. I've given demonstrations with Wireshark and stuff, but they don't get it. This makes things easy... perhaps the message will sink in.
 
Well, I'm outta here
goodnight guys!
 
@PabloFernandez Have a good one
 
Wow, good first experience in SO chat, that firesheep is hilarious
 
Neo
2:40 AM
goodnight @PabloFernandez
firefox crashed when I did that.
yeah man SO chat is great, it's even better than firesheep, html5 and sliced bread
"Firesheep" could not be installed because it is not compatible with your Firefox build type (Linux_x86_64-gcc3). Please contact the author of this item about the problem.
 
@Neo Yeah, there is more to it than just the Firefox extension. The underlying capture interface needs to be set up.
On windows this is winpcap.
*nix, I think you can just dump /dev/ethx or whatever, once the hardware is placed in the correct mode, can't you?
 
Neo
I don't know have to play around with it, but I got a windows box anyway, I'm turning it on now
I mean it's gotta be installed first then I can change my interface mode to monitor mode
this seems to be an issue with the whole underlying code thats not gonna work on my architecture. I think it's cause I'm running AMD64
this seems to be more than a firefox plugin
I don't know... I'm tired, am I not making any sense? this doesn't work the way I think it does?
lol
 
@Neo Sleep is good. I'm tired too.... can't figure out Python right now.
 
Neo
last night I was really messed up, do you code all day every day too>
 
I'm primarily a .NET/PHP developer. Today is my first day with Python... learning how to control Ableton Live with it.
Yes, I work all day at my primary job, and come home and work all night on side work and personal projects.
 
Neo
2:49 AM
I don't know much python
I do alot of PHP too
 
Ableton is annoying. When the script fails, I don't get errors or anything... it just doesn't load.
 
Hey all!
 
Doing simple things such as adding a function to a class causes it to stop loading, and I have nooooo idea why.
@NickPresta 'sup Nick
 
Neo
what do you think of .NET? as a php devbeloper?
 
@Neo .NET has grown on me. Since 2.0, it is a lot better, and VS2008 and later is amazing. I love it.
I used to hate it... hated distributing a huge runtime. These days though, it isn't so bad as most people already have it, or they have fast internet connections.
 
Neo
2:51 AM
what the new deal with the MVC .NET or whatever is it like classic asp and .net all over again or what?
 
Oh, I hate the ASP crap....
 
Neo
I stopped working with microsoft stuff after asp
 
ASP .NET no way
I don't use .NET for web development
Screw that... slow as hell. Horribly inefficient.
 
Neo
oh ok, you said php/.net I thought
 
@Neo I use PHP on the server side for web applications, and I do desktop software in .NET
I've dabbled in ASP.NET, but hate it and avoid it as much as possible.
I don't like the level of abstraction... I like knowing what my output is.
 
Neo
2:53 AM
yeah, thats cool. I've been doing a lot of web development but if I was gonna do desktop standalone software I would probably go with something like that after all windows is the industry OS
 
I also don't like how slow it is.
 
Neo
and there;s nothing better than high level language for that type of work
 
Yeah, most of the time I use VB.NET, but I use C# on occasion, depending on who will be reading my code later.
 
Neo
yeah in web development I would never want that level of abstraction, but running on the OS it could be a good thing, even better if it was OpenSource
 
VB.NET is a fine language... I know a lot of folks hate it, but when properly used, it is no worse than the others.
 
Neo
2:56 AM
yeah I learned the basic family when I started programming. if it's the same I think it's pretty good
I remember vb.net was a little different in some syntax
but I learned it quickly but then I never did anything I can barely remember anything from VB.net
 
@Neo Think of it as BASIC done right. Many things are different, but very easy to pick up.
 
Neo
I got really into web development after that I have no time for anything else
I really wanna start writing php, apache modules in c
have you seen facebooks hiphop project
 
@Neo Never heard of it
 
@Neo: what is the reason to write apache modules?
 
I enjoy VB.NET. I think its bad reputation comes from tradition. stackoverflow.com/questions/66130/whats-so-bad-about-vb-net
 
Neo
2:59 AM
performance gain, c++ speed vs php
 

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